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Re: PT decking?

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  • dnjost
    I put the lay up to the test today. I stepped on the glued 1X1 PT strips and low and behold I am now the proud owner of two tomato stakes. The pieces parted
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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      I put the lay up to the test today. I stepped on the glued 1X1 PT
      strips and low and behold I am now the proud owner of two tomato stakes.

      The pieces parted nicely at the glue line with minimal damage to the
      surrounding wood.

      In my honest opinion PT Southern Yellow Pine is not a suitable
      boatbuilding product.
    • Fred Schumacher
      If you live in the north, the pressure treated wood you get could be Red Pine (pinus resinosa, also called Norway Pine). This is lighter than SYP and nearly as
      Message 2 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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        If you live in the north, the pressure treated wood you get could be Red
        Pine (pinus resinosa, also called Norway Pine). This is lighter than SYP and
        nearly as strong as Douglas Fir. It takes pressure treating beautifully and
        doesn't need holes poked into it, like White Pine. Red Pine is an extremely
        tough wood. My logger friend says you can skid a log and wrap it around a
        tree and it won't break.

        Fred Schumacher

        On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:33 PM, dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:

        > While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
        > treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
        > chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
        > epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
        >
        > Has anyone tried this?
        >
        > David Jost
        > "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Giuliano Girometta
        Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year old building. The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure because i never seen
        Message 3 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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          Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year old building.
          The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone expert in woods.
          The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the real one.
          The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain fast growing threes.
          The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use such wood.
          In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for white oak.
          I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin Unsanctioned.
          I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum.
          About epoxy and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most  commonly found at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
           
          Giuliano 

          --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:

          From: Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...>
          Subject: Re: [bolger] PT decking?
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 9:02 PM






          If you live in the north, the pressure treated wood you get could be Red
          Pine (pinus resinosa, also called Norway Pine). This is lighter than SYP and
          nearly as strong as Douglas Fir. It takes pressure treating beautifully and
          doesn't need holes poked into it, like White Pine. Red Pine is an extremely
          tough wood. My logger friend says you can skid a log and wrap it around a
          tree and it won't break.

          Fred Schumacher

          On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:33 PM, dnjost <davidjost@verizon. net> wrote:

          > While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
          > treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
          > chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
          > epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
          >
          > Has anyone tried this?
          >
          > David Jost
          > "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
          Let me try to get this across again. In just the last few years they changed the chemistry by federal law for PT lumber. Old and new chemistry reacted with
          Message 4 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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            Let me try to get this across again. In just the last few years they
            changed the chemistry by federal law for PT lumber. Old and new
            chemistry reacted with glue bonding of any type and the new with most
            fasteners. Both chemistrys cycle salts to the surface with moisture
            content changes.

            MDO is great for boat building if it is a good grade of MDO good thing
            to check on. Exterior ply has notmaly thicker iner plys and thinner
            surface plyes. Marine has typicaly even thickness plys no voids on iner
            plys more plys for thickness and more of the same glue. MDO of a good
            grade will have even thickness iner plys a thin outer ply and the
            overlay good cores and even more of the same glue as marine. HDO is
            like MDO but the overlay is harder smoth and bonds poorly.
          • Chris Crandall
            Guiliano: What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf pine can
            Message 5 of 29 , Oct 2, 2008
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              Guiliano:

              What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many
              different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf
              pine can be categorized as SYP, and old-growth longleaf pine is a real
              treasure of a wood. Save it and use it wisely. It will take epoxy.

              Modern SYP is less good, and modern longleaf pine tends to be less good,
              too, in part because it is induced, as you say, to grow more quickly.
              This is part genetic, and part the way it is treated by foresters. The
              same is true these days with Douglas firin the opposite part of the
              country. The old growth stuff is amazing, the new stuff is pretty OK.



              > Posted by: "Giuliano Girometta" ggboat1@... ggboat1 Date: Wed
              > Oct 1, 2008 7:49 pm ((PDT))
              >
              > Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year
              > old building. The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure
              > because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone
              > expert in woods. The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the
              > real one. The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different
              > because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain
              > fast growing threes. The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant
              > that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw
              > blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use
              > such wood. In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for
              > white oak. I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin
              > Unsanctioned. I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the
              > major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during
              > WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels
              > constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years
              > ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum. About epoxy
              > and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the
              > US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the
              > treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most commonly found
              > at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return
              > to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
              >
              > Giuliano
            • Giuliano Girometta
              Thank you for the correction. This is what I was meaning but I forgot to type correctly and I omit the world longleaf . That wood is like gold for me, is nice
              Message 6 of 29 , Oct 2, 2008
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                Thank you for the correction. This is what I was meaning but I forgot to type correctly and I omit the world "longleaf".
                That wood is like gold for me, is nice straight grained and was left for 85 years in a perfect enviroment (the attic of a Sunday School building at my church and the roof was always keept in good leak proof conditions since the construction). I wish there was more time to salvage more lumber but someone donated the money for the disposal containers and for the buldozzer so all went very quick and I got only one day to salvage the most I can, while all the remaining went in splinters max 24" long the very next day. (Really very sad to loose so much good wood) Unfortunatly the environmentalist found some traces of asbestos in the joint compound on the sheetrock and therefore the manual demolition was going to be extremely expensive if done by a contractor.
                I removed as much material I can with the help of two friends but at a certain point we were forced to leave the building in a hurry when we feel the ceiling dropping down about five inches under our feet.
                 
                Giuliano

                --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:

                From: Chris Crandall <crandall@...>
                Subject: [bolger] Re: Re: PT decking?
                To: "No Reply" <notify-dg-bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                Cc: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 8:53 PM






                Guiliano:

                What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many
                different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf
                pine can be categorized as SYP, and old-growth longleaf pine is a real
                treasure of a wood. Save it and use it wisely. It will take epoxy.

                Modern SYP is less good, and modern longleaf pine tends to be less good,
                too, in part because it is induced, as you say, to grow more quickly.
                This is part genetic, and part the way it is treated by foresters. The
                same is true these days with Douglas firin the opposite part of the
                country. The old growth stuff is amazing, the new stuff is pretty OK.

                > Posted by: "Giuliano Girometta" ggboat1@yahoo. com ggboat1 Date: Wed
                > Oct 1, 2008 7:49 pm ((PDT))
                >
                > Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year
                > old building. The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure
                > because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone
                > expert in woods. The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the
                > real one. The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different
                > because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain
                > fast growing threes. The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant
                > that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw
                > blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use
                > such wood. In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for
                > white oak. I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin
                > Unsanctioned. I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the
                > major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during
                > WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels
                > constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years
                > ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum. About epoxy
                > and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the
                > US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the
                > treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most commonly found
                > at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return
                > to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
                >
                > Giuliano


















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • .Randy Powell
                I don t want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of great choices for boat building without using substandard home products. I have removed
                Message 7 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
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                  I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of great choices for boat building without using substandard "home" products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70 years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only to have your boat rot out much quicker.
                  Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few. Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the Mahogany's.
                  No job is worth doing by half
                  Randy
                  --- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:

                  From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
                  Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM






                  While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
                  treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
                  chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
                  epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.

                  Has anyone tried this?

                  David Jost
                  "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
















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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                  Well said I am restoring a 1962 Lightning that is built with Mahogany and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important is care after build
                  Message 8 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
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                    Well said I am restoring a 1962 Lightning that is built with Mahogany
                    and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important
                    is care after build in the life of a boat for the way the boat is
                    built and of what. Wetboats need to be taken cate of differentlythen
                    dry boats and system for building and sealing are also different.
                    What works for one will shorten the life of the other.

                    Jon

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of
                    great choices for boat building without using substandard "home"
                    products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70
                    years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the
                    only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and
                    effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only
                    to have your boat rot out much quicker.
                    > Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you
                    Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few.
                    Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the
                    Mahogany's.
                    > No job is worth doing by half
                    > Randy
                    > --- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
                    > Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
                    > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    > Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM
                  • .Randy Powell
                    You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair, that said proper coatings,
                    Message 9 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
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                      You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair, that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only traditional coatings.
                      Randy 
                      --- On Sat, 10/4/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:

                      From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                      Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      Received: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 6:43 PM






                      Well said I am restoring a 1962 Lightning that is built with Mahogany
                      and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important
                      is care after build in the life of a boat for the way the boat is
                      built and of what. Wetboats need to be taken cate of differentlythen
                      dry boats and system for building and sealing are also different.
                      What works for one will shorten the life of the other.

                      Jon

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@ ...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of
                      great choices for boat building without using substandard "home"
                      products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70
                      years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the
                      only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and
                      effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only
                      to have your boat rot out much quicker.
                      > Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you
                      Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few.
                      Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the
                      Mahogany's.
                      > No job is worth doing by half
                      > Randy
                      > --- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@. ..> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: dnjost <davidjost@. ..>
                      > Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
                      > To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
                      > Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM
















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                    • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                      It has had many poor repairs and some poor storage in the past. It was inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain where split
                      Message 10 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
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                        It has had many poor repairs and some poor storage in the past. It was
                        inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain
                        where split pritty bad. The paint was marine with a high copper bottom
                        paint but the bright work was all but gone. Sister ribs where poorly
                        done and rot not tepaired or stoped. Think how long it would have
                        lasted if taken care of properly rather then half way. There are
                        lightnings 50, 60 and nearly 70 years old in good shape.

                        Jon

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are
                        Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair,
                        that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping
                        your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that
                        would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only
                        traditional coatings.
                        > Randy 
                      • .Randy Powell
                        Jon, Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy??? Randy ... From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking? To:
                        Message 11 of 29 , Oct 6, 2008
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                          Jon,
                          Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy???
                          Randy

                          --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:

                          From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                          Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
                          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          Received: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 12:33 AM






                          It has had many poor repairs and some poor storage in the past. It was
                          inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain
                          where split pritty bad. The paint was marine with a high copper bottom
                          paint but the bright work was all but gone. Sister ribs where poorly
                          done and rot not tepaired or stoped. Think how long it would have
                          lasted if taken care of properly rather then half way. There are
                          lightnings 50, 60 and nearly 70 years old in good shape.

                          Jon

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@ ...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are
                          Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair,
                          that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping
                          your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that
                          would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only
                          traditional coatings.
                          > Randy 
















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                        • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                          Need to do some more work now that the days are getting shorter and I have more time. Need to do some updateing too.
                          Message 12 of 29 , Oct 6, 2008
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                            Need to do some more work now that the days are getting shorter and I
                            have more time. Need to do some updateing too.
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/jons_boat_building/sets/72157602709911781
                            /

                            Jon


                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Jon,
                            > Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy???
                            > Randy
                            >
                            > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                            > Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
                            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            > Received: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 12:33 AM
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