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PT decking?

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  • dnjost
    While building my 18 Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the chines. I am
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 28, 2008
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      While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
      treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
      chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
      epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.

      Has anyone tried this?

      David Jost
      "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
    • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
      The chemicals in PT now react with all fasteners except SS and ceramic coated deck screws. It is not recomended to paint PT lumber untill it has seasond and
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 28, 2008
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        The chemicals in PT now react with all fasteners except SS and ceramic
        coated deck screws. It is not recomended to paint PT lumber untill it
        has seasond and weathered for a year. Personaly I wouldn't use it
        anywhere in a boat.

        Jon

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
        >
        > While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
        > treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
        > chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
        > epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
        >
        > Has anyone tried this?
        >
        > David Jost
        > "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
        >
      • Patrick Crockett
        Also, I have some recollection of reading somewhere that pressure treating weakens the wood. Don t know how critical strength is for the chine log for the
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 28, 2008
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          Also, I have some recollection of reading somewhere that pressure
          treating weakens the wood. Don't know how critical strength is for the
          chine log for the Workskiff, but it might be a consideration. Of course,
          weakened yellow pine may be stronger than ordinary SPF (usually S, in my
          experience), so it may not be an issue.

          Patrick

          Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
          > The chemicals in PT now react with all fasteners except SS and ceramic
          > coated deck screws. It is not recomended to paint PT lumber untill it
          > has seasond and weathered for a year. Personaly I wouldn't use it
          > anywhere in a boat.
          >
          > Jon
          >
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
          >
          >> While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
          >> treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
          >> chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
          >> epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
          >>
          >> Has anyone tried this?
          >>
          >> David Jost
          >> "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
        • Paul
          I don t remember where I saw it, but someone mentioned in one of the boat building groups in the past that there were also problems with PT and epoxy as well
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 28, 2008
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            I don't remember where I saw it, but someone mentioned in one of the
            boat building groups in the past that there were also problems with
            PT and epoxy as well as a few other glues. The chemicals used to
            pickle the wood interfere with the chemical bonding.

            Paul H
            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
            >
            > Also, I have some recollection of reading somewhere that pressure
            > treating weakens the wood. Don't know how critical strength is for
            the
            > chine log for the Workskiff, but it might be a consideration. Of
            course,
            > weakened yellow pine may be stronger than ordinary SPF (usually S,
            in my
            > experience), so it may not be an issue.
            >
            > Patrick
            >
            > Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
            > > The chemicals in PT now react with all fasteners except SS and
            ceramic
            > > coated deck screws. It is not recomended to paint PT lumber
            untill it
            > > has seasond and weathered for a year. Personaly I wouldn't use it
            > > anywhere in a boat.
            > >
            > > Jon
            > >
            > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@> wrote:
            > >
            > >> While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice
            pressure
            > >> treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for
            the
            > >> chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
            > >> epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
            > >>
            > >> Has anyone tried this?
            > >>
            > >> David Jost
            > >> "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
            >
          • dnjost
            The test so far is positive. I have a real good glue bond between to overlapped 8 1.5 x 1.5 strips. side to side motion cannot break the bond. I will
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 30, 2008
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              The test so far is positive. I have a real good glue bond between to
              overlapped 8' 1.5 x 1.5" strips. side to side motion cannot break the
              bond. I will develop a torsion test to see if somehow I can get the
              glue to break with maximum torque applied vertically to the glue line.
              I can see the Mythbusters folks having some fun with this.

              The caveat about painting is probably true, but I bet if I epoxy the
              surfaces throroughly I can then paint over it. However, after all that
              work I would probably be better off just locating some southern yellow
              pine that is untreated. It is not available at my local central
              Massachusetts lumber yards. For what it's worth my Pointy Skiff with
              external chines made out of common spf boards with good ply is going on
              it's 25th year with only a couple of rot spots showing up in the past
              few years.

              David Jost
            • Paul
              Down here in Atlanta better than half the available 2x stock is SYP. You might talk to your local Lowe s or Home Depot and see if they can order what you need.
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 30, 2008
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                Down here in Atlanta better than half the available 2x stock is SYP.
                You might talk to your local Lowe's or Home Depot and see if they can
                order what you need.

                Paul H.

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
                >
                > The test so far is positive. I have a real good glue bond between
                to
                > overlapped 8' 1.5 x 1.5" strips. side to side motion cannot break
                the
                > bond. I will develop a torsion test to see if somehow I can get
                the
                > glue to break with maximum torque applied vertically to the glue
                line.
                > I can see the Mythbusters folks having some fun with this.
                >
                > The caveat about painting is probably true, but I bet if I epoxy
                the
                > surfaces throroughly I can then paint over it. However, after all
                that
                > work I would probably be better off just locating some southern
                yellow
                > pine that is untreated. It is not available at my local central
                > Massachusetts lumber yards. For what it's worth my Pointy Skiff
                with
                > external chines made out of common spf boards with good ply is
                going on
                > it's 25th year with only a couple of rot spots showing up in the
                past
                > few years.
                >
                > David Jost
                >
              • dnjost
                Thanks to all for your thoughts. I have located 16 clear 5/4 SYP boards no more than 30 miles from home. They also stock AB Marine Ply. at $60 per sheet for
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 30, 2008
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                  Thanks to all for your thoughts. I have located 16' clear 5/4 SYP
                  boards no more than 30 miles from home. They also stock AB Marine Ply.
                  at $60 per sheet for 1/2". No need to risk playing with the pressure
                  treated stuff or using ACX for the bottom, rot should not be such an
                  issue now.

                  David Jost
                • Christopher C. Wetherill
                  David, I work with pressure treated wood fairly often. I have noticed that it is usually pretty saturated with liquid solution. I suspect this is why it
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 30, 2008
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                    David,

                    I work with pressure treated wood fairly often. I have noticed that it
                    is usually pretty saturated with liquid solution. I suspect this is why
                    it shouldn't be painted for the first year. It is likely that epoxy
                    would blister or delaminate. It is also quite dense. It hefts about
                    double the weight of standard CDX of the same dimension.

                    Chris

                    dnjost wrote:
                    > Thanks to all for your thoughts. I have located 16' clear 5/4 SYP
                    > boards no more than 30 miles from home. They also stock AB Marine Ply.
                    > at $60 per sheet for 1/2". No need to risk playing with the pressure
                    > treated stuff or using ACX for the bottom, rot should not be such an
                    > issue now.
                    >
                    > David Jost
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • oarmandt
                    Forget the PT, worry about the SYP. Somewhere PCB recommends against using SYP, I am guessing for glued construction. My Birdwatcher has SYP external chines.
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 30, 2008
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                      Forget the PT, worry about the SYP. Somewhere PCB recommends against
                      using SYP, I am guessing for glued construction. My Birdwatcher has
                      SYP external chines. One has warped and pulled away from the side
                      panel. It was not too hard to fix, just fill the gap with more epoxy.
                      But then, a month or two later, the adjacent section of chine pulls
                      away from the side.

                      Maybe if you are careful to use only quarter sawn stock, it will
                      behave better during wet/dry cycles.

                      Has anyone else had problems with non-PT SYP?

                      Doug

                      >
                      > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >> While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice
                      pressure
                      > >> treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
                      > >> chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
                      > >> epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
                      > >>
                      > >> Has anyone tried this?
                      > >>
                      > >> David Jost
                      > >> "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
                      >
                    • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                      No problems at all with SYP here in the NW we use CVG Douglas Fir. Sorry couldn t help it. Jon
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 30, 2008
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                        No problems at all with SYP here in the NW we use CVG Douglas Fir.
                        Sorry couldn't help it.

                        Jon

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Forget the PT, worry about the SYP. Somewhere PCB recommends against
                        > using SYP, I am guessing for glued construction. My Birdwatcher has
                        > SYP external chines. One has warped and pulled away from the side
                        > panel. It was not too hard to fix, just fill the gap with more epoxy.
                        > But then, a month or two later, the adjacent section of chine pulls
                        > away from the side.
                        >
                        > Maybe if you are careful to use only quarter sawn stock, it will
                        > behave better during wet/dry cycles.
                        >
                        > Has anyone else had problems with non-PT SYP?
                        >
                        > Doug
                      • Ron Magen
                        ... Dave, For what it s worth, here s my real time experience. While not actually on a boat, it s an exposure to the same environmental conditions . . . in
                        Message 11 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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                          > Posted by: "dnjost" davidjost@... dnjost
                          > Date: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:25 am ((PDT))
                          > snip
                          > The caveat about painting is probably true, . . .

                          Dave,
                          For what it's worth, here's my 'real time' experience. While not actually on
                          a boat, it's an exposure to the same environmental conditions . . . in the
                          Northern Mid-Atlantic area of the US East coast.

                          Several years ago -due to a water problem- we enlarged our small patio to
                          the full width of the house. This gave us the opportunity to keep the grill
                          out year round. To facilitate this I made a decorative 'privacy screen' for
                          the area. It also acted as a fence to the good sized vegetable 'side garden'
                          {we have two 'Large & Hungry' Malamutes . . think 100-lb rabbits !!}. Two PT
                          4x4 as end posts {topped 'Pineapple' finials}, two PT 2x4's for top & bottom
                          rails, and a piece of white vinyl 'cross-hatch' screen. The wood got two
                          coats of water-based primer, then two coats of White water-based house
                          paint. Stainless Steel screws, of course. Simple yet elegant.

                          Bottom line . . ?? Haven't touched it since I built it. No 'refreshing' of
                          the paint, exposed to snow, ice, sun. rain, and spray from daily garden
                          watering.

                          As an additional note . . . I built Joanne a 'Rose Trellis Entrance for the
                          front of the house. Same PT 2x4's, same finish, same result.

                          For me - I think a good priming is the key. Also letting the primer 'cure'
                          per instructions {which is actually true for all H20 'paints'} - at least a
                          full 14-days at 50 percent, or lower, humidity.

                          Regards,
                          Ron Magen
                          Backyard Boatshop
                          {If anyone is interested, I'll post a couple of photo's}
                        • dnjost
                          Great insight and advice. I am going with 5/4 Doug Fir as i have found a local yard with lots in stock. I will experiment with a June Bug in the spring with
                          Message 12 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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                            Great insight and advice. I am going with 5/4 Doug Fir as i have found
                            a local yard with lots in stock.

                            I will experiment with a June Bug in the spring with the SYP and see
                            how it does. the glue up I did will be primed and painted and left to
                            the elements all winter clamped under stress to the deck. Will report
                            back in March.

                            thanks
                            David
                          • dnjost
                            Great insight and advice. I am going with 5/4 Doug Fir as i have found a local yard with lots in stock. I will experiment with a June Bug in the spring with
                            Message 13 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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                              Great insight and advice. I am going with 5/4 Doug Fir as i have found
                              a local yard with lots in stock.

                              I will experiment with a June Bug in the spring with the SYP and see
                              how it does. the glue up I did will be primed and painted and left to
                              the elements all winter clamped under stress to the deck. Will report
                              back in March.

                              thanks
                              David
                            • Patrick Crockett
                              FWIW, the first boat I built was made of strips ripped from 5/4 PT decking. After a tree fell over and smashed the deck behind our house, a boat seemed like a
                              Message 14 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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                                FWIW, the first boat I built was made of strips ripped from 5/4" PT
                                decking. After a tree fell over and smashed the deck behind our house, a
                                boat seemed like a better destination for the old deck than the
                                landfill. The 14' boat weighed a ton (well ... more than one wants a 14'
                                boat to weigh, anyway). After a couple voyages to prove that it didn't
                                sink, it landed in a pre-school playground (with holes in the bottom to
                                let the rain out).

                                So far as I know, it is still there 17 years later, providing voyages to
                                Australia and other destinations in the "Continent Song". Edge-nailed
                                the strips with galvanized finishing nails, glued with liquid nails,
                                painted with latex, minimal thought to priming or whatever. The wood was
                                well-seasoned -- probably at least 8 years in the north Louisiana sun
                                and rain. May have been repainted, but not in the first few years.

                                Patrick

                                dnjost wrote:
                                > The test so far is positive. I have a real good glue bond between to
                                > overlapped 8' 1.5 x 1.5" strips. side to side motion cannot break the
                                > bond. I will develop a torsion test to see if somehow I can get the
                                > glue to break with maximum torque applied vertically to the glue line.
                                > I can see the Mythbusters folks having some fun with this.
                                >
                                > The caveat about painting is probably true, but I bet if I epoxy the
                                > surfaces throroughly I can then paint over it. However, after all that
                                > work I would probably be better off just locating some southern yellow
                                > pine that is untreated. It is not available at my local central
                                > Massachusetts lumber yards. For what it's worth my Pointy Skiff with
                                > external chines made out of common spf boards with good ply is going on
                                > it's 25th year with only a couple of rot spots showing up in the past
                                > few years.
                                >
                                > David Jost
                                >
                                >
                              • Chris Crandall
                                ... David: The difference between AB Marine Ply and ACX is NOT rot resistance (or at least, not much). The difference is in the quality of the glue, and the
                                Message 15 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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                                  > 3c. > Posted by: "dnjost" davidjost@... dnjost
                                  > Date: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:09 am ((PDT))
                                  >
                                  > Thanks to all for your thoughts. I have located 16' clear 5/4 SYP
                                  > boards no more than 30 miles from home. They also stock AB Marine Ply.
                                  > at $60 per sheet for 1/2". No need to risk playing with the pressure
                                  > treated stuff or using ACX for the bottom, rot should not be such an
                                  > issue now.


                                  David: The difference between "AB Marine Ply" and ACX is NOT rot
                                  resistance (or at least, not much). The difference is in the quality of
                                  the glue, and the relative number of voids within the plys (and how
                                  these voids are treated). OK, and B is cleaner and nicer than C.

                                  Your worries about rot are not over for the plywood, and I wouldn't
                                  treat either plywood different--they are both reasonably rot resistant,
                                  and your concerns are going to be at the joints and joins, where fresh
                                  water will be the issue.

                                  You are likely find AB marine ply superior wood in many ways, and worth
                                  the extra $$$'s. But you still must be vigilant about rot.

                                  See Jim Michalak's next-most recent website posting on rot:

                                  http://www.jimsboats.com/15sep08.htm

                                  You can see my personal grief in photos there.
                                • Steven Rose
                                  Many books I have read mention that MDO (Dura-ply in Canada) is also an excellent product for boat building. Apparently it s made for outdoor signs, I have
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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                                    Many books I have read mention that MDO (Dura-ply in Canada) is also an
                                    excellent product for boat building. Apparently it's made for outdoor signs,
                                    I have looked at it but have never had the chance to try it out. Just a
                                    thought :-)



                                    Steve



                                    _____

                                    From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                    dnjost
                                    Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 6:17 AM
                                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?



                                    Great insight and advice. I am going with 5/4 Doug Fir as i have found
                                    a local yard with lots in stock.

                                    I will experiment with a June Bug in the spring with the SYP and see
                                    how it does. the glue up I did will be primed and painted and left to
                                    the elements all winter clamped under stress to the deck. Will report
                                    back in March.

                                    thanks
                                    David



                                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • davy riggs
                                    Chris Are you sure about the glue thing? I was told a few years ago that marine ply and exterior used the same glue. Do you know what the difference is? I
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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                                      Chris

                                      Are you sure about the glue thing? I was told a few
                                      years ago that marine ply and exterior used the same
                                      glue. Do you know what the difference is?

                                      I was at my neighborhood Lowe's the other day and the
                                      most likely-looking stuff they had featured a sign
                                      saying "only for use in sheltered applications" (or
                                      something to that effect). Has the whole industry
                                      changed with out me being notified?

                                      Dave


                                      I have given two cousins to war and I stand ready to sacrifice my wife's brother. -Artemus Ward
                                    • dnjost
                                      I put the lay up to the test today. I stepped on the glued 1X1 PT strips and low and behold I am now the proud owner of two tomato stakes. The pieces parted
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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                                        I put the lay up to the test today. I stepped on the glued 1X1 PT
                                        strips and low and behold I am now the proud owner of two tomato stakes.

                                        The pieces parted nicely at the glue line with minimal damage to the
                                        surrounding wood.

                                        In my honest opinion PT Southern Yellow Pine is not a suitable
                                        boatbuilding product.
                                      • Fred Schumacher
                                        If you live in the north, the pressure treated wood you get could be Red Pine (pinus resinosa, also called Norway Pine). This is lighter than SYP and nearly as
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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                                          If you live in the north, the pressure treated wood you get could be Red
                                          Pine (pinus resinosa, also called Norway Pine). This is lighter than SYP and
                                          nearly as strong as Douglas Fir. It takes pressure treating beautifully and
                                          doesn't need holes poked into it, like White Pine. Red Pine is an extremely
                                          tough wood. My logger friend says you can skid a log and wrap it around a
                                          tree and it won't break.

                                          Fred Schumacher

                                          On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:33 PM, dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:

                                          > While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
                                          > treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
                                          > chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
                                          > epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
                                          >
                                          > Has anyone tried this?
                                          >
                                          > David Jost
                                          > "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Giuliano Girometta
                                          Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year old building. The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure because i never seen
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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                                            Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year old building.
                                            The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone expert in woods.
                                            The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the real one.
                                            The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain fast growing threes.
                                            The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use such wood.
                                            In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for white oak.
                                            I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin Unsanctioned.
                                            I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum.
                                            About epoxy and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most  commonly found at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
                                             
                                            Giuliano 

                                            --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:

                                            From: Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...>
                                            Subject: Re: [bolger] PT decking?
                                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 9:02 PM






                                            If you live in the north, the pressure treated wood you get could be Red
                                            Pine (pinus resinosa, also called Norway Pine). This is lighter than SYP and
                                            nearly as strong as Douglas Fir. It takes pressure treating beautifully and
                                            doesn't need holes poked into it, like White Pine. Red Pine is an extremely
                                            tough wood. My logger friend says you can skid a log and wrap it around a
                                            tree and it won't break.

                                            Fred Schumacher

                                            On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:33 PM, dnjost <davidjost@verizon. net> wrote:

                                            > While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
                                            > treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
                                            > chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
                                            > epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
                                            >
                                            > Has anyone tried this?
                                            >
                                            > David Jost
                                            > "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                            Let me try to get this across again. In just the last few years they changed the chemistry by federal law for PT lumber. Old and new chemistry reacted with
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Oct 1, 2008
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                                              Let me try to get this across again. In just the last few years they
                                              changed the chemistry by federal law for PT lumber. Old and new
                                              chemistry reacted with glue bonding of any type and the new with most
                                              fasteners. Both chemistrys cycle salts to the surface with moisture
                                              content changes.

                                              MDO is great for boat building if it is a good grade of MDO good thing
                                              to check on. Exterior ply has notmaly thicker iner plys and thinner
                                              surface plyes. Marine has typicaly even thickness plys no voids on iner
                                              plys more plys for thickness and more of the same glue. MDO of a good
                                              grade will have even thickness iner plys a thin outer ply and the
                                              overlay good cores and even more of the same glue as marine. HDO is
                                              like MDO but the overlay is harder smoth and bonds poorly.
                                            • Chris Crandall
                                              Guiliano: What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf pine can
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Oct 2, 2008
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                                                Guiliano:

                                                What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many
                                                different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf
                                                pine can be categorized as SYP, and old-growth longleaf pine is a real
                                                treasure of a wood. Save it and use it wisely. It will take epoxy.

                                                Modern SYP is less good, and modern longleaf pine tends to be less good,
                                                too, in part because it is induced, as you say, to grow more quickly.
                                                This is part genetic, and part the way it is treated by foresters. The
                                                same is true these days with Douglas firin the opposite part of the
                                                country. The old growth stuff is amazing, the new stuff is pretty OK.



                                                > Posted by: "Giuliano Girometta" ggboat1@... ggboat1 Date: Wed
                                                > Oct 1, 2008 7:49 pm ((PDT))
                                                >
                                                > Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year
                                                > old building. The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure
                                                > because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone
                                                > expert in woods. The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the
                                                > real one. The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different
                                                > because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain
                                                > fast growing threes. The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant
                                                > that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw
                                                > blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use
                                                > such wood. In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for
                                                > white oak. I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin
                                                > Unsanctioned. I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the
                                                > major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during
                                                > WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels
                                                > constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years
                                                > ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum. About epoxy
                                                > and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the
                                                > US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the
                                                > treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most commonly found
                                                > at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return
                                                > to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
                                                >
                                                > Giuliano
                                              • Giuliano Girometta
                                                Thank you for the correction. This is what I was meaning but I forgot to type correctly and I omit the world longleaf . That wood is like gold for me, is nice
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Oct 2, 2008
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                                                  Thank you for the correction. This is what I was meaning but I forgot to type correctly and I omit the world "longleaf".
                                                  That wood is like gold for me, is nice straight grained and was left for 85 years in a perfect enviroment (the attic of a Sunday School building at my church and the roof was always keept in good leak proof conditions since the construction). I wish there was more time to salvage more lumber but someone donated the money for the disposal containers and for the buldozzer so all went very quick and I got only one day to salvage the most I can, while all the remaining went in splinters max 24" long the very next day. (Really very sad to loose so much good wood) Unfortunatly the environmentalist found some traces of asbestos in the joint compound on the sheetrock and therefore the manual demolition was going to be extremely expensive if done by a contractor.
                                                  I removed as much material I can with the help of two friends but at a certain point we were forced to leave the building in a hurry when we feel the ceiling dropping down about five inches under our feet.
                                                   
                                                  Giuliano

                                                  --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Chris Crandall <crandall@...>
                                                  Subject: [bolger] Re: Re: PT decking?
                                                  To: "No Reply" <notify-dg-bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Cc: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 8:53 PM






                                                  Guiliano:

                                                  What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many
                                                  different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf
                                                  pine can be categorized as SYP, and old-growth longleaf pine is a real
                                                  treasure of a wood. Save it and use it wisely. It will take epoxy.

                                                  Modern SYP is less good, and modern longleaf pine tends to be less good,
                                                  too, in part because it is induced, as you say, to grow more quickly.
                                                  This is part genetic, and part the way it is treated by foresters. The
                                                  same is true these days with Douglas firin the opposite part of the
                                                  country. The old growth stuff is amazing, the new stuff is pretty OK.

                                                  > Posted by: "Giuliano Girometta" ggboat1@yahoo. com ggboat1 Date: Wed
                                                  > Oct 1, 2008 7:49 pm ((PDT))
                                                  >
                                                  > Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year
                                                  > old building. The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure
                                                  > because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone
                                                  > expert in woods. The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the
                                                  > real one. The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different
                                                  > because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain
                                                  > fast growing threes. The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant
                                                  > that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw
                                                  > blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use
                                                  > such wood. In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for
                                                  > white oak. I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin
                                                  > Unsanctioned. I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the
                                                  > major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during
                                                  > WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels
                                                  > constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years
                                                  > ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum. About epoxy
                                                  > and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the
                                                  > US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the
                                                  > treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most commonly found
                                                  > at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return
                                                  > to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
                                                  >
                                                  > Giuliano


















                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • .Randy Powell
                                                  I don t want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of great choices for boat building without using substandard home products. I have removed
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of great choices for boat building without using substandard "home" products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70 years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only to have your boat rot out much quicker.
                                                    Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few. Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the Mahogany's.
                                                    No job is worth doing by half
                                                    Randy
                                                    --- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:

                                                    From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
                                                    Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
                                                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM






                                                    While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
                                                    treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
                                                    chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
                                                    epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.

                                                    Has anyone tried this?

                                                    David Jost
                                                    "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
















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                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                                    Well said I am restoring a 1962 Lightning that is built with Mahogany and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important is care after build
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Well said I am restoring a 1962 Lightning that is built with Mahogany
                                                      and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important
                                                      is care after build in the life of a boat for the way the boat is
                                                      built and of what. Wetboats need to be taken cate of differentlythen
                                                      dry boats and system for building and sealing are also different.
                                                      What works for one will shorten the life of the other.

                                                      Jon

                                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
                                                      wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of
                                                      great choices for boat building without using substandard "home"
                                                      products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70
                                                      years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the
                                                      only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and
                                                      effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only
                                                      to have your boat rot out much quicker.
                                                      > Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you
                                                      Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few.
                                                      Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the
                                                      Mahogany's.
                                                      > No job is worth doing by half
                                                      > Randy
                                                      > --- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
                                                      > Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
                                                      > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM
                                                    • .Randy Powell
                                                      You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair, that said proper coatings,
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair, that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only traditional coatings.
                                                        Randy 
                                                        --- On Sat, 10/4/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:

                                                        From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                                                        Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
                                                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Received: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 6:43 PM






                                                        Well said I am restoring a 1962 Lightning that is built with Mahogany
                                                        and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important
                                                        is care after build in the life of a boat for the way the boat is
                                                        built and of what. Wetboats need to be taken cate of differentlythen
                                                        dry boats and system for building and sealing are also different.
                                                        What works for one will shorten the life of the other.

                                                        Jon

                                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@ ...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of
                                                        great choices for boat building without using substandard "home"
                                                        products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70
                                                        years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the
                                                        only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and
                                                        effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only
                                                        to have your boat rot out much quicker.
                                                        > Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you
                                                        Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few.
                                                        Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the
                                                        Mahogany's.
                                                        > No job is worth doing by half
                                                        > Randy
                                                        > --- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@. ..> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > From: dnjost <davidjost@. ..>
                                                        > Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
                                                        > To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
                                                        > Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM
















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                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                                        It has had many poor repairs and some poor storage in the past. It was inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain where split
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Oct 4, 2008
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          It has had many poor repairs and some poor storage in the past. It was
                                                          inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain
                                                          where split pritty bad. The paint was marine with a high copper bottom
                                                          paint but the bright work was all but gone. Sister ribs where poorly
                                                          done and rot not tepaired or stoped. Think how long it would have
                                                          lasted if taken care of properly rather then half way. There are
                                                          lightnings 50, 60 and nearly 70 years old in good shape.

                                                          Jon

                                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are
                                                          Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair,
                                                          that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping
                                                          your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that
                                                          would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only
                                                          traditional coatings.
                                                          > Randy 
                                                        • .Randy Powell
                                                          Jon, Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy??? Randy ... From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking? To:
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Oct 6, 2008
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            Jon,
                                                            Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy???
                                                            Randy

                                                            --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:

                                                            From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                                                            Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
                                                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Received: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 12:33 AM






                                                            It has had many poor repairs and some poor storage in the past. It was
                                                            inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain
                                                            where split pritty bad. The paint was marine with a high copper bottom
                                                            paint but the bright work was all but gone. Sister ribs where poorly
                                                            done and rot not tepaired or stoped. Think how long it would have
                                                            lasted if taken care of properly rather then half way. There are
                                                            lightnings 50, 60 and nearly 70 years old in good shape.

                                                            Jon

                                                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@ ...>
                                                            wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are
                                                            Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair,
                                                            that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping
                                                            your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that
                                                            would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only
                                                            traditional coatings.
                                                            > Randy 
















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                                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                                            Need to do some more work now that the days are getting shorter and I have more time. Need to do some updateing too.
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Oct 6, 2008
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              Need to do some more work now that the days are getting shorter and I
                                                              have more time. Need to do some updateing too.
                                                              http://www.flickr.com/photos/jons_boat_building/sets/72157602709911781
                                                              /

                                                              Jon


                                                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
                                                              wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Jon,
                                                              > Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy???
                                                              > Randy
                                                              >
                                                              > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                                                              > Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
                                                              > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > Received: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 12:33 AM
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