Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [bolger] Polyester fabric and checking

Expand Messages
  • Kristine Bennett
    Jerry I think you need to know they use polyester fabric as peel ply with epoxy. You would be better off to just use fiberglass. And the cost is not going to
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 2, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Jerry I think you need to know they use polyester fabric as peel ply with epoxy. You would be better off to just use fiberglass. And the cost is not going to be much more to do it right the first time around

       I have used a glass fabric called 7781 it's a 8.7 oz cloth that has a satin finsh and has a very tight weave. The last I looked FIberglass Supply has it cheaper then 6 oz boat cloth. It come in 38,50 and 60 inches wide. The only draw back I've seen is it does not like taking a real tight bend.

      They also carry the lighter industral cloths as well. The industral cloths are a finer and tighter weave so you will also have less time trying to fill the weave! The little extra you may pay for the industral cloth over the boat cloth will save you HOURS of sanding and filling!

      Fiberglass Supply's web site is www.fiberglasssupply.com they do ship as well.

      I have found their prices to be rather good on most of their stuff. I find their price on their epoxys not bad.

      Krissie












      I was contemplating epoxying/gluing/ sticking with chewing gum a layer of polyester fabric

      over the hull bottom of my Vesper (imagine if Jessie Cooper had a drunken tumble with

      Superbrick and you'll get the design concept). the idea would be to decrease checking and

      increase the integrity of seams. Would love to hear if any of you have any experiences, good

      or ill, with doing this and if you've ever used anything but two part epoxy for the process.





























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kristine Bennett
      I have used Nexus Cloth and epoxy and they work will together, All Nexus cloth does is give you an even coat of epoxy that doesn t run off the part. :) Also
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        I have used Nexus Cloth and epoxy and they work will together, All Nexus cloth does is give you an even coat of epoxy that doesn't run off the part. :) Also works nice over cloth to give you something to sand other then the cloth.

        I did a deck and we used fiberglass cloth with Nexus cloth over the top. After the epoxy had set we took a scraper to knock off the spikes from the Nexus cloth and painted it. It had just the right amount of tooth for non skid.

        Krissie

        --- On Tue, 9/2/08, Peter McCorison <k2spr@...> wrote:
        From: Peter McCorison <k2spr@...>
        Subject: Re: [bolger] Polyester fabric and checking
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 12:20 PM











        I've been using Nexus Cloth (a light non-woven polyester cloth) set in

        epoxy to protect PW from checking. It has always worked for me. This

        isn't a process for adding strength to the structure, but only to

        protect the surface. The nice thing about Nexus Cloth is that it doesn't

        add much weight to the layup. Also it doesn't fuzz up when sanding like

        Dynel does.



        Of course, YMMV.



        - Peter McCorison



        Mungo Jerry wrote:

        > I was contemplating epoxying/gluing/ sticking with chewing gum a layer of polyester fabric

        > over the hull bottom of my Vesper (imagine if Jessie Cooper had a drunken tumble with

        > Superbrick and you'll get the design concept). the idea would be to decrease checking and

        > increase the integrity of seams. Would love to hear if any of you have any experiences, good

        > or ill, with doing this and if you've ever used anything but two part epoxy for the process.

        >

        >

        > ------------ --------- --------- ------

        >

        > Bolger rules!!!

        > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!

        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses

        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts

        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away

        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349

        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com

        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_ lounge-subscribe @yahoogroups. com Yahoo! Groups Links

        >

        >

        >

        >



























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • daschultz2000
        It seems to me that the polyester cloth won t add significant strength like glass fiber would, not would it be expected to take abrasion like glass, but it
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 5, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          It seems to me that the polyester cloth won't add significant strength
          like glass fiber would, not would it be expected to take abrasion like
          glass, but it will let you get the epoxy on really thick just by
          supporting the wet paint as Krissie says above.

          Will thicker paint prevent checking? Dunno.

          Don
        • Kenneth Grome
          Xynole is polyester and it has been reported to be 4 times better than fiberglass in terms of abrasion resistance. Sincerely, Ken Grome Bagacay Boatworks
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 5, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Xynole is polyester and it has been reported to be 4 times
            better than fiberglass in terms of abrasion resistance.

            Sincerely,
            Ken Grome
            Bagacay Boatworks
            www.bagacayboatworks.com






            > It seems to me that the polyester cloth won't add
            > significant strength like glass fiber would, not would it
            > be expected to take abrasion like glass ...
          • Ben
            When you sand thru the epoxy and hit the Xynole,it turns fuzzy like a lint ball.It s a pain to repair it too.
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 5, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              When you sand thru the epoxy and hit the Xynole,it turns fuzzy like a
              lint ball.It's a pain to repair it too.

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
              >
              > Xynole is polyester and it has been reported to be 4 times
              > better than fiberglass in terms of abrasion resistance.
              >
              > Sincerely,
              > Ken Grome
              > Bagacay Boatworks
              > www.bagacayboatworks.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > > It seems to me that the polyester cloth won't add
              > > significant strength like glass fiber would, not would it
              > > be expected to take abrasion like glass ...
              >
            • Harry James
              I don t know about repairing but I live in an area of no beaches as they are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and occasionally pebble beaches all
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 6, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of no beaches as they
                are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and occasionally pebble
                beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I plan on keeping I
                have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also takes a beating. I
                have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never through the Xynole.

                HJ Juneau.

                Ben wrote:
                > When you sand thru the epoxy and hit the Xynole,it turns fuzzy like a
                > lint ball.It's a pain to repair it too.
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
                >
                >> Xynole is polyester and it has been reported to be 4 times
                >> better than fiberglass in terms of abrasion resistance.
                >>
                >> Sincerely,
                >> Ken Grome
                >> Bagacay Boatworks
                >> www.bagacayboatworks.com
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>> It seems to me that the polyester cloth won't add
                >>> significant strength like glass fiber would, not would it
                >>> be expected to take abrasion like glass ...
                >>>
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                I think like Dynel it is the high amount of epoxy needed to use it that gives it the abrasion resistance not the fact it is polyester cloth. Jon ... they ...
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 6, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  I think like Dynel it is the high amount of epoxy needed to use it that
                  gives it the abrasion resistance not the fact it is polyester cloth.

                  Jon

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of no beaches as
                  they
                  > are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and occasionally
                  pebble
                  > beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I plan on keeping
                  I
                  > have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also takes a
                  beating. I
                  > have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never through the Xynole.
                  >
                  > HJ Juneau.
                • Harry James
                  Don t think so, the informal test in Boatbuilding magazine that most of us use as a reference on this had epoxy without cloth as a control and it had
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 6, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Don't think so, the informal test in Boatbuilding magazine that most of
                    us use as a reference on this had epoxy without cloth as a control and
                    it had negligible resistance compared to the various cloths. Think about
                    it, how long does it take you to sand through three coats of epoxy as
                    opposed to 6 oz cloth and epoxy.

                    HJ


                    Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
                    > I think like Dynel it is the high amount of epoxy needed to use it that
                    > gives it the abrasion resistance not the fact it is polyester cloth.
                    >
                    > Jon
                    >
                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of no beaches as
                    >>
                    > they
                    >
                    >> are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and occasionally
                    >>
                    > pebble
                    >
                    >> beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I plan on keeping
                    >>
                    > I
                    >
                    >> have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also takes a
                    >>
                    > beating. I
                    >
                    >> have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never through the Xynole.
                    >>
                    >> HJ Juneau.
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Kenneth Grome
                    ... In this case several layers of glass would be better than one layer of Xynole, but I don t think this is the case. I think the polyester lets the boat slip
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 6, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > I think like Dynel it is the high amount of epoxy needed
                      > to use it that gives it the abrasion resistance not the
                      > fact it is polyester cloth.

                      In this case several layers of glass would be better than
                      one layer of Xynole, but I don't think this is the case.

                      I think the polyester lets the boat slip off obstructions
                      better than glass. Graphite in epoxy is good for abrasion
                      resistance too -- because it lets the hull slip off of
                      things that would otherwise dig into it. I think polyester
                      works the same way.

                      I also think since it is a plastic fiber rather than glass,
                      polyester fibers are not broken as easily as glass.
                      Instead of breaking they bend and stretch which appears to
                      resist abrasion better than glass fibers.

                      Sincerely,
                      Ken Grome
                      Bagacay Boatworks
                      www.bagacayboatworks.com







                      >
                      > Jon
                      >
                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...>
                      wrote:
                      > > I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of
                      > > no beaches as
                      >
                      > they
                      >
                      > > are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and
                      > > occasionally
                      >
                      > pebble
                      >
                      > > beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I
                      > > plan on keeping
                      >
                      > I
                      >
                      > > have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also
                      > > takes a
                      >
                      > beating. I
                      >
                      > > have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never
                      > > through the Xynole.
                      > >
                      > > HJ Juneau.
                    • Harry James
                      In the Boatbuilding test and I think you have quoted it Ken one layer of Xynole was four times as abrasion resistant as one layer of 6 oz glass. When the test
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 6, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        In the Boatbuilding test and I think you have quoted it Ken one layer of
                        Xynole was four times as abrasion resistant as one layer of 6 oz glass.
                        When the test was adjusted for thickness of coating the Xynole was 2
                        times as abrasion resistant. As a practical matter, Xnole or Dynel is
                        much easier to work around corners of chines and such. If I bother with
                        glass at all I will always put Xynole or Dynel on the bottom. Glass on
                        the sides is just to stabilize the wood surface, glass on the bottom is
                        for abrasion resistance, why not do 4x effectiveness?

                        There is a web site out there that shows using 20 mil plastic and
                        rolling it out over glass/epoxy and leaving a mirror smooth finish. I
                        have often wondered how that technique would work over Xynole maybe
                        make filling the weave quicker. If anybody has that website link I
                        could use it, disappeared out of my files.

                        HJ

                        Kenneth Grome wrote:
                        >> I think like Dynel it is the high amount of epoxy needed
                        >> to use it that gives it the abrasion resistance not the
                        >> fact it is polyester cloth.
                        >>
                        >
                        > In this case several layers of glass would be better than
                        > one layer of Xynole, but I don't think this is the case.
                        >
                        > I think the polyester lets the boat slip off obstructions
                        > better than glass. Graphite in epoxy is good for abrasion
                        > resistance too -- because it lets the hull slip off of
                        > things that would otherwise dig into it. I think polyester
                        > works the same way.
                        >
                        > I also think since it is a plastic fiber rather than glass,
                        > polyester fibers are not broken as easily as glass.
                        > Instead of breaking they bend and stretch which appears to
                        > resist abrasion better than glass fibers.
                        >
                        > Sincerely,
                        > Ken Grome
                        > Bagacay Boatworks
                        > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >> Jon
                        >>
                        >> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...>
                        >>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        >>> I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of
                        >>> no beaches as
                        >>>
                        >> they
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>> are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and
                        >>> occasionally
                        >>>
                        >> pebble
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>> beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I
                        >>> plan on keeping
                        >>>
                        >> I
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>> have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also
                        >>> takes a
                        >>>
                        >> beating. I
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>> have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never
                        >>> through the Xynole.
                        >>>
                        >>> HJ Juneau.
                        >>>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Bolger rules!!!
                        > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ron Magen
                        Harry, et al . . . I have a South Haven Dory { clone of Gloucester Gull} that I am -that is will be , after Joanne s kitchen- refurbishing. The bottom is
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 7, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Harry, et al . . .

                          I have a 'South Haven' Dory {'clone' of Gloucester Gull} that I am -that is
                          'will be', after Joanne's kitchen- refurbishing. The bottom is badly
                          'checked', along with a almost broken off transom top. It is completely
                          painted, so the first thing is to thoroughly sand to 'clean' wood.

                          I've worked with glass, and the one thing that is the most troublesome is
                          the 'itch' factor. I've heard a lot about the virtues of Dynel/Xynole - 'no
                          itch' and conforms to curves/edges nicely. What I intend to do -to offset
                          the epoxy 'suck-up' factor- is treat it like a fairing problem. . .
                          a} sand, brush, and vacuum clean
                          b} brush & roll a light coat of 'straight' THINNED epoxy
                          c} mix up a batch of 'Q-Cel' {or Phonolic, or other light
                          weight} filler, and apply a 'skim coat' with a NOTCHED
                          spreader.
                          d} lay in and 'rollout' the Dynel/Xynole cloth.
                          e} wait for 'Green Stage' or beyond
                          f} mix up & apply a SMOOTH skim 'top coat' of a harder
                          {fumed silica admixture} filler.
                          g} lightly sand & PAINT

                          The sides will have just a layer of about a 1 ounce fabric, set in epoxy,
                          'skimmed' & painted.

                          This shouldn't add much weight -any would add to the 'ballast', anyway. Will
                          most assuredly increase bottom abrasion resistance, and make outside storage
                          {covered, of course} much less worrisome.

                          Regards,
                          Ron Magen
                          Backyard Boatshop


                          > Posted by: "Harry James" welshman@... harryjak
                          > snip
                          . . . one layer of Xynole was four times as abrasion resistant as one layer
                          of 6 oz glass. When the test was adjusted for thickness of coating the
                          Xynole was 2 times as abrasion resistant. As a practical matter, Xnole or
                          Dynel is much easier to work around corners of chines and such. . . .
                          > . . .
                          > There is a web site out there that shows using 20 mil plastic and rolling
                          > it out over glass/epoxy and leaving a mirror smooth finish. I have often
                          > wondered how that technique would work over Xynole maybe make filling the
                          > weave quicker. . .
                        • Kenneth Grome
                          Ron, I think you should allow the fabric to suck up as much epoxy as it wants to suck up. When you apply a sheathing layer this layer is supposed to be filled
                          Message 12 of 20 , Sep 7, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ron,

                            I think you should allow the fabric to suck up as much epoxy
                            as it wants to suck up. When you apply a sheathing layer
                            this layer is supposed to be filled 100% with epoxy. It's
                            not supposed to have air in it, but that's what your
                            approach will do.

                            The only reasonably effective way I can think of (at the
                            moment) to use less epoxy with Xynole might be to vacuum
                            bag it since this will put pressure on the cloth over its
                            entire surface and *theoretically* flatten it uniformly --
                            thereby reducing the volume of air spaces that would
                            otherwise be filled with epoxy.

                            By the way, you should never thin epoxy with any kind of
                            solvents either. The only way you should thin epoxy is by
                            heating it.

                            Epoxy does not need to be thinned to work properly in the
                            first place. This is a false assumption that too many
                            people fall into these days, probably because they assume
                            epoxy works like paint -- which it most certainly does not.
                            Paint usually sticks better when the first coat is thinned,
                            but this is not true of epoxy.

                            By thinning epoxy with solvents all you're doing is
                            perforating it with millions of tiny hollow tubes created
                            by the solvents as they flow from within the epoxy to the
                            surface so they can evaporate. These hollow tubes provide
                            ideal pathways for moisture to get into the wood later.

                            Sincerely,
                            Ken Grome
                            Bagacay Boatworks
                            www.bagacayboatworks.com




                            > What I intend to do -to offset the epoxy 'suck-up' factor
                            > is treat it like a fairing problem. . .
                            > a} sand, brush, and vacuum clean
                            > b} brush & roll a light coat of 'straight' THINNED epoxy
                            > c} mix up a batch of 'Q-Cel' {or Phonolic, or other light
                            > weight} filler, and apply a 'skim coat' with a NOTCHED
                            > spreader.
                            > d} lay in and 'rollout' the Dynel/Xynole cloth.
                            > e} wait for 'Green Stage' or beyond
                            > f} mix up & apply a SMOOTH skim 'top coat' of a harder
                            {fumed silica admixture} filler.
                            > g} lightly sand & PAINT
                          • Douglas Pollard
                            You are absolutly right about the holes and varnish will do the same thing I watched guys varnishing boats in Florida and they added so much japan dries they
                            Message 13 of 20 , Sep 7, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              You are absolutly right about the holes and varnish will do the same
                              thing I watched guys varnishing boats in Florida and they added so much
                              japan dries they were able to get three coats in one day. That stuff
                              had to be like a sieve. I guess the fact that the holes seldom line up
                              saves them?
                              Doug



                              Kenneth Grome wrote:
                              >
                              > Ron,
                              >
                              > I think you should allow the fabric to suck up as much epoxy
                              > as it wants to suck up. When you apply a sheathing layer
                              > this layer is supposed to be filled 100% with epoxy. It's
                              > not supposed to have air in it, but that's what your
                              > approach will do.
                              >
                              > The only reasonably effective way I can think of (at the
                              > moment) to use less epoxy with Xynole might be to vacuum
                              > bag it since this will put pressure on the cloth over its
                              > entire surface and *theoretically* flatten it uniformly --
                              > thereby reducing the volume of air spaces that would
                              > otherwise be filled with epoxy.
                              >
                              > By the way, you should never thin epoxy with any kind of
                              > solvents either. The only way you should thin epoxy is by
                              > heating it.
                              >
                              > Epoxy does not need to be thinned to work properly in the
                              > first place. This is a false assumption that too many
                              > people fall into these days, probably because they assume
                              > epoxy works like paint -- which it most certainly does not.
                              > Paint usually sticks better when the first coat is thinned,
                              > but this is not true of epoxy.
                              >
                              > By thinning epoxy with solvents all you're doing is
                              > perforating it with millions of tiny hollow tubes created
                              > by the solvents as they flow from within the epoxy to the
                              > surface so they can evaporate. These hollow tubes provide
                              > ideal pathways for moisture to get into the wood later.
                              >
                              > Sincerely,
                              > Ken Grome
                              > Bagacay Boatworks
                              > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                              >
                              > > What I intend to do -to offset the epoxy 'suck-up' factor
                              > > is treat it like a fairing problem. . .
                              > > a} sand, brush, and vacuum clean
                              > > b} brush & roll a light coat of 'straight' THINNED epoxy
                              > > c} mix up a batch of 'Q-Cel' {or Phonolic, or other light
                              > > weight} filler, and apply a 'skim coat' with a NOTCHED
                              > > spreader.
                              > > d} lay in and 'rollout' the Dynel/Xynole cloth.
                              > > e} wait for 'Green Stage' or beyond
                              > > f} mix up & apply a SMOOTH skim 'top coat' of a harder
                              > {fumed silica admixture} filler.
                              > > g} lightly sand & PAINT
                              >
                              >
                            • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                              6 oz. Dynel can take upto 4-6 times the epoxy to wet out and then finnesh so it would be a apples to oranges compaired to 6 oz. glass. Dynel is no where as
                              Message 14 of 20 , Sep 7, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                6 oz. Dynel can take upto 4-6 times the epoxy to wet out and then
                                finnesh so it would be a apples to oranges compaired to 6 oz. glass.
                                Dynel is no where as strong as glass even with all the epoxy. My
                                favorite way to add abrasion resistance is use cabosil in the fill
                                and other coats after laying glass.

                                Jon

                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Don't think so, the informal test in Boatbuilding magazine that
                                most of
                                > us use as a reference on this had epoxy without cloth as a control
                                and
                                > it had negligible resistance compared to the various cloths. Think
                                about
                                > it, how long does it take you to sand through three coats of epoxy
                                as
                                > opposed to 6 oz cloth and epoxy.
                                >
                                > HJ
                                >
                                >
                                > Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
                                > > I think like Dynel it is the high amount of epoxy needed to use
                                it that
                                > > gives it the abrasion resistance not the fact it is polyester
                                cloth.
                                > >
                                > > Jon
                                > >
                                > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >> I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of no beaches
                                as
                                > >>
                                > > they
                                > >
                                > >> are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and occasionally
                                > >>
                                > > pebble
                                > >
                                > >> beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I plan on
                                keeping
                                > >>
                                > > I
                                > >
                                > >> have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also takes a
                                > >>
                                > > beating. I
                                > >
                                > >> have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never through the
                                Xynole.
                                > >>
                                > >> HJ Juneau.
                                > >>
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Harry James
                                Ron We built 3 Gull dories in my shop in 2003 before my last mobilization. I put Xynole on the bottom of all of them. The rest are all different as I am not
                                Message 15 of 20 , Sep 7, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Ron

                                  We built 3 Gull dories in my shop in 2003 before my last mobilization. I
                                  put Xynole on the bottom of all of them. The rest are all different as I
                                  am not very good at doing the same thing twice running. The Xnole was
                                  all done the same and Ken pretty well has the right of it on what I
                                  think is the best technique. I put the cloth on dry and poured on the
                                  epoxy and used a plastic spreader to level it off and it soaked in a
                                  lot. I then spread on another coat the next day. I sanded that one down
                                  rolled on a finish coat. I would not try to use filler until after the
                                  cloth is filled with epoxy. My estimate is it took about 3 times the
                                  epoxy of 6 oz cloth and as I have said before I have never gone through
                                  it on our beaches. I have gone through 6 oz cloth rather easily. This is
                                  not about strength, fiberglass is stronger than Xynole in both tension
                                  and compression. It is about abrasion resistance. Jon thinks it is the
                                  extra epoxy and would rather use cabosil for extra abrasion resistance.
                                  I have a different opinion based on my experience which is just fine,
                                  you get to make your mind up and then have "your" opinion. If you want
                                  strength and abrasion resistance the Arimid Kevlar is very abrasion
                                  resistant and way stronger in tension then fiberglass. It doesn't do
                                  compression well but nobodies perfect. I can email you some pics of
                                  putting on the Xynole if you want them. Someday I have to put it
                                  together for a Duckworks article.

                                  Still looking for that plastic over epoxy site.

                                  HJ


                                  Ron Magen wrote:
                                  > Harry, et al . . .
                                  >
                                  > I have a 'South Haven' Dory {'clone' of Gloucester Gull} that I am -that is
                                  > 'will be', after Joanne's kitchen- refurbishing. The bottom is badly
                                  > 'checked', along with a almost broken off transom top. It is completely
                                  > painted, so the first thing is to thoroughly sand to 'clean' wood.
                                  >
                                  > I've worked with glass, and the one thing that is the most troublesome is
                                  > the 'itch' factor. I've heard a lot about the virtues of Dynel/Xynole - 'no
                                  > itch' and conforms to curves/edges nicely. What I intend to do -to offset
                                  > the epoxy 'suck-up' factor- is treat it like a fairing problem. . .
                                  > a} sand, brush, and vacuum clean
                                  > b} brush & roll a light coat of 'straight' THINNED epoxy
                                  > c} mix up a batch of 'Q-Cel' {or Phonolic, or other light
                                  > weight} filler, and apply a 'skim coat' with a NOTCHED
                                  > spreader.
                                  > d} lay in and 'rollout' the Dynel/Xynole cloth.
                                  > e} wait for 'Green Stage' or beyond
                                  > f} mix up & apply a SMOOTH skim 'top coat' of a harder
                                  > {fumed silica admixture} filler.
                                  > g} lightly sand & PAINT
                                  >
                                  > The sides will have just a layer of about a 1 ounce fabric, set in epoxy,
                                  > 'skimmed' & painted.
                                  >
                                  > This shouldn't add much weight -any would add to the 'ballast', anyway. Will
                                  > most assuredly increase bottom abrasion resistance, and make outside storage
                                  > {covered, of course} much less worrisome.
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  > Ron Magen
                                  > Backyard Boatshop
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >> Posted by: "Harry James" welshman@... harryjak
                                  >> snip
                                  >>
                                  > . . . one layer of Xynole was four times as abrasion resistant as one layer
                                  > of 6 oz glass. When the test was adjusted for thickness of coating the
                                  > Xynole was 2 times as abrasion resistant. As a practical matter, Xnole or
                                  > Dynel is much easier to work around corners of chines and such. . . .
                                  >
                                  >> . . .
                                  >> There is a web site out there that shows using 20 mil plastic and rolling
                                  >> it out over glass/epoxy and leaving a mirror smooth finish. I have often
                                  >> wondered how that technique would work over Xynole maybe make filling the
                                  >> weave quicker. . .
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • c o'donnell
                                  I did an experiment a while back with light glass (2 oz?) and acrylic latex (or epoxy fortified) porch paint. The goal was to stop checking on a hatch cover.
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Sep 8, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I did an experiment a while back with light glass (2 oz?) and acrylic
                                    latex (or epoxy fortified) porch paint. The goal was to stop checking
                                    on a hatch cover.

                                    You paint the cloth down, basically, like people used to do with
                                    canvas. Fast undercoat, drop the cloth down, top coat. It works well.
                                    However, not recommended for any part that will be underwater
                                    constantly. If checking painting ply is the issue, porch or garage
                                    floor paint and glass works well without boosting the weight.

                                    On Sep 8, 2008, at 12:08 AM, Harry James wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > and compression. It is about abrasion resistance. Jon thinks it is the
                                    > extra epoxy and would rather use cabosil for extra abrasion
                                    > resistance.
                                    >
                                    >





                                    Another recommendation has been to use corborundum (powder) in epoxy.
                                    Carborundum will abrade the rocks. I think I read of this in an
                                    article on west coast drift boats ...



                                    === craig o'donnell
                                    dadadata@...
                                    Box 232 Betterton Md 21610





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.