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re: Bolger Oldshoe going fast....

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  • Chris Crandall
    ... Dudes, John Harris is an original Bolgerado, and a seriously talented and careful boatbuilder! (He is the current owner of Chesapeake Light Craft.) And a
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 28, 2008
      > For those Bolgeradoes in the Mid-Atlantic area, the Chesapeake Bay
      > Maritime Museum in St. Michaels, MD is having their annual boat
      > auction this weekend. If you've never been to one, you've missed an
      > experience. Boats traditionally go for miniscule sums, and the
      > selection this year is around 70 boats. Seven zero. Seventy.
      >
      > One of them is a Bolger Oldshoe with spars and sails. The hull needs
      > some interior scraping and painting, and a few other TLC touches, but
      > she's essentially sound. It's John Harris' old boat, for those of you
      > who might remember her.
      >
      > Details of the auction and the museum offerings can be found at
      > http://www.cbmm.org/me_boat_donat.html
      > David


      Dudes, John Harris is an original Bolgerado, and a seriously talented
      and careful boatbuilder! (He is the current owner of Chesapeake Light
      Craft.) And a good dude. If you've ever considered an Oldshoe, hie on
      down to St. Michaels, turn left before you get to Dick Cheney's house,
      and bid on the Oldshoe. I can only wish I lived near St. Michaels!
    • Sam Glasscock
      I am starting to look for a high-thrust 9.9 for my Tennessee project.  The plans show about a 15 transom.  The Yamaha high-thrusts only come in 20 or 25
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 28, 2008
        I am starting to look for a high-thrust 9.9 for my Tennessee project.  The plans show about a 15" transom.  The Yamaha high-thrusts only come in 20" or 25" shafts.  It is easy enough to raise the transom.  My question is, how much.  There is some rocker in the Tennessee, I will be running her at displacement speeds, so having the cavitation plate no lower than the waterline is not imperative, and I want to make sure the prop stays in the water in a chop.  I assume the hull bottom at the transom is slightly above the water, lightly loaded.  I'd appreciate any advice about the optimal height of the transom to accommodate a 20" shaft motor.   Thanks
















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kenneth Grome
        ... Sam, just go 5 inches higher for the 20 inch shaft, or 10 inches higher for the 25 inch shaft. ... If you re worried that the prop is going to ventilate,
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 28, 2008
          > I am starting to look for a high-thrust 9.9 for my
          > Tennessee project.  The plans show about a 15" transom. 
          > The Yamaha high-thrusts only come in 20" or 25" shafts. 
          > It is easy enough to raise the transom.  My question is,
          > how much. 

          Sam, just go 5 inches higher for the 20 inch shaft, or 10
          inches higher for the 25 inch shaft.


          > There is some rocker in the Tennessee, I will
          > be running her at displacement speeds, so having the
          > cavitation plate no lower than the waterline is not
          > imperative, and I want to make sure the prop stays in the
          > water in a chop.

          If you're worried that the prop is going to ventilate, just
          set it deeper ... but it probably won't unless you're in
          some really steep short waves.

          You can always cut the transom height down a little bit
          later if the prop ventilates more than you want it to,
          right?


          Sincerely,
          Ken Grome
          Bagacay Boatworks
          www.bagacayboatworks.com
        • Sam Glasscock
          Ken, that makes sense--It is easier to cut it down than cut it up, for sure.  Thanks. If you re worried that the prop is going to ventilate, just set it
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 29, 2008
            Ken, that makes sense--It is easier to cut it down than cut it up, for sure.  Thanks.







            If you're worried that the prop is going to ventilate, just
            set it deeper ... but it probably won't unless you're in
            some really steep short waves.

            You can always cut the transom height down a little bit
            later if the prop ventilates more than you want it to,
            right?

















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Chester Young
            Sam: In the photos section, within the EstherMae folder there are two photos relative to your current question. Photo 6 shows the transom and a bit of the
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 30, 2008
              Sam:



              In the photos section, within the EstherMae folder there are two photos
              relative to your current question.



              Photo 6 shows the transom and a bit of the detail of the outboard style
              mount on EstherMae. It is difficult to tell from the photos but when
              sitting at rest with a four stroke 25hp, and a tank full of gasoline (15
              gallons, 3’ forward of the transom) the chine directly at the transom is no
              more than half way submerged.



              Photo 7 shows the transom while underway. Keep in mind that I had my 230
              lbs standing on the stern to take this photo so I am adding to the weight in
              the stern considerably. What I see in #7 is that the stern depresses when
              slightly when underway putting the chine fully underwater.



              Ken has it right when he said to build the transom taller and cut if needed.



              I have never encountered a chop that has even come close to raising the prop
              out of the water, however when taking quartering wakes from a 40’-60’ boat
              running 20 mph past the EstherMae she has done enough of a broach to put the
              prop out of the water. This has happened at least 5 times in the last 2 ½
              years over 4,000 miles of running. I view it as my fault for not being more
              tuned to the conditions. If that is a vice then it is one of the few a
              Tennessee has. Regardless in no case was the broach extreme enough to make
              me feel as if rolling was imminent. Typically when there is a chop I can
              watch small power boats, from 25’ on down hobby horsing through the waves
              and EstherMae just glides along, pitch is not a motion that a Tennessee
              engages in. I suspect that this is due to the narrow beam. If you are
              running in conditions that create much pitch you should consider being back
              at the dock, as the hull is far to light for such weather. Heavy weather
              also demands a speed of no more than 8-9 mph to prevent excessive pounding
              of the bottom, which is throttled back from the 15-18 mph she can do in a
              light chop. I have never been out in anything in excess of 3’ and we
              regularly run around in 2’ and less comfortably.



              ~Caloosarat



              _____

              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Sam Glasscock
              Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:02 AM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [bolger] Tennessee transom height question




              I am starting to look for a high-thrust 9.9 for my Tennessee project. The
              plans show about a 15" transom. The Yamaha high-thrusts only come in 20" or
              25" shafts. It is easy enough to raise the transom. My question is, how
              much. There is some rocker in the Tennessee, I will be running her at
              displacement speeds, so having the cavitation plate no lower than the
              waterline is not imperative, and I want to make sure the prop stays in the
              water in a chop. I assume the hull bottom at the transom is slightly above
              the water, lightly loaded. I'd appreciate any advice about the optimal
              height of the transom to accommodate a 20" shaft motor. Thanks

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bob Rusk
              Caloosarat, I have long lusted after a Tennessee. I figure she d be great here in the Indian River Lagoon. Early reports had her running 10 mph with 10 hp
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 30, 2008
                Caloosarat,

                I have long lusted after a Tennessee. I figure she'd be great here in
                the Indian River Lagoon. Early reports had her running 10 mph with 10
                hp and close to 15 mph with 15 hp (2-strokes, < 90 lbs). A calm-water
                cruise speed of 13-14 mph would be ok by me, 10 mph would not.

                I thought I had read somewhere that you were only getting 13 mph wide
                open out of EstherMae with that 25 hp motor wide open, and this had
                scared me away from the idea. I wanted to attribute her lower speed
                to having so much weight aft (25 hp 4-stroke, 15 gal fuel tank,
                seating aft of cockpit) and possibly some drag from her afterplanes.
                Is my memory of EstherMae's performance faulty? Have you done
                anything that could be credited with the speedup?

                All of my knowledge of Tennessee is anecdotal and from photos, but it
                makes for some great dream fodder. I had hoped to charter Mangrove
                Mistress for a day to learn more (she is powered with a 25 hp Honda),
                but she was sold a year or so before I was able to return to Key West
                and I couldn't find her when I finally got back down there.

                Anyway, any light you can shed on EstherMae's performance would be
                greatly appreciated.

                Bob

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chester Young" <chester@...> wrote:
                >
                > Sam:
                >
                >
                >
                > In the photos section, within the EstherMae folder there are two photos
                > relative to your current question.
                >
                >
                >
                > Photo 6 shows the transom and a bit of the detail of the outboard style
                > mount on EstherMae. It is difficult to tell from the photos but when
                > sitting at rest with a four stroke 25hp, and a tank full of gasoline (15
                > gallons, 3' forward of the transom) the chine directly at the
                transom is no
                > more than half way submerged.
                >
                >
                >
                > Photo 7 shows the transom while underway. Keep in mind that I had
                my 230
                > lbs standing on the stern to take this photo so I am adding to the
                weight in
                > the stern considerably. What I see in #7 is that the stern
                depresses when
                > slightly when underway putting the chine fully underwater.
                >
                >
                >
                > Ken has it right when he said to build the transom taller and cut if
                needed.
                >
                >
                >
                > I have never encountered a chop that has even come close to raising
                the prop
                > out of the water, however when taking quartering wakes from a
                40'-60' boat
                > running 20 mph past the EstherMae she has done enough of a broach to
                put the
                > prop out of the water. This has happened at least 5 times in the
                last 2 ½
                > years over 4,000 miles of running. I view it as my fault for not
                being more
                > tuned to the conditions. If that is a vice then it is one of the few a
                > Tennessee has. Regardless in no case was the broach extreme enough
                to make
                > me feel as if rolling was imminent. Typically when there is a chop
                I can
                > watch small power boats, from 25' on down hobby horsing through the
                waves
                > and EstherMae just glides along, pitch is not a motion that a Tennessee
                > engages in. I suspect that this is due to the narrow beam. If you are
                > running in conditions that create much pitch you should consider
                being back
                > at the dock, as the hull is far to light for such weather. Heavy
                weather
                > also demands a speed of no more than 8-9 mph to prevent excessive
                pounding
                > of the bottom, which is throttled back from the 15-18 mph she can do
                in a
                > light chop. I have never been out in anything in excess of 3' and we
                > regularly run around in 2' and less comfortably.
                >
                >
                >
                > ~Caloosarat
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of
                > Sam Glasscock
                > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:02 AM
                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [bolger] Tennessee transom height question
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I am starting to look for a high-thrust 9.9 for my Tennessee
                project. The
                > plans show about a 15" transom. The Yamaha high-thrusts only come
                in 20" or
                > 25" shafts. It is easy enough to raise the transom. My question
                is, how
                > much. There is some rocker in the Tennessee, I will be running her at
                > displacement speeds, so having the cavitation plate no lower than the
                > waterline is not imperative, and I want to make sure the prop stays
                in the
                > water in a chop. I assume the hull bottom at the transom is
                slightly above
                > the water, lightly loaded. I'd appreciate any advice about the optimal
                > height of the transom to accommodate a 20" shaft motor. Thanks
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Sam Glasscock
                Wow!  Somehow, I had managed to miss those pictures entirely.  What a beauty!  The outboard bracket solves my problem--thanks.  I have also never seen the
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 31, 2008
                  Wow!� Somehow, I had managed to miss those pictures entirely.� What a beauty!� The outboard bracket solves my problem--thanks.� I have also never seen the MAIB article posted in the photo--is it posted anywhere in legible form?--I'd love to read it.� Thanks, Sam

                  --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Chester Young <chester@...> wrote:

                  From: Chester Young <chester@...>
                  Subject: RE: [bolger] Tennessee transom height question
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 11:45 AM






                  Sam:

                  In the photos section, within the EstherMae folder there are two photos
                  relative to your current question.

                  Photo 6 shows the transom and a bit of the detail of the outboard style
                  mount on EstherMae. It is difficult to tell from the photos but when
                  sitting at rest with a four stroke 25hp, and a tank full of gasoline (15
                  gallons, 3� forward of the transom) the chine directly at the transom is no
                  more than half way submerged.

                  Photo 7 shows the transom while underway. Keep in mind that I had my 230
                  lbs standing on the stern to take this photo so I am adding to the weight in
                  the stern considerably. What I see in #7 is that the stern depresses when
                  slightly when underway putting the chine fully underwater.

                  Ken has it right when he said to build the transom taller and cut if needed.

                  I have never encountered a chop that has even come close to raising the prop
                  out of the water, however when taking quartering wakes from a 40�-60� boat
                  running 20 mph past the EstherMae she has done enough of a broach to put the
                  prop out of the water. This has happened at least 5 times in the last 2 �
                  years over 4,000 miles of running. I view it as my fault for not being more
                  tuned to the conditions. If that is a vice then it is one of the few a
                  Tennessee has. Regardless in no case was the broach extreme enough to make
                  me feel as if rolling was imminent. Typically when there is a chop I can
                  watch small power boats, from 25� on down hobby horsing through the waves
                  and EstherMae just glides along, pitch is not a motion that a Tennessee
                  engages in. I suspect that this is due to the narrow beam. If you are
                  running in conditions that create much pitch you should consider being back
                  at the dock, as the hull is far to light for such weather. Heavy weather
                  also demands a speed of no more than 8-9 mph to prevent excessive pounding
                  of the bottom, which is throttled back from the 15-18 mph she can do in a
                  light chop. I have never been out in anything in excess of 3� and we
                  regularly run around in 2� and less comfortably.

                  ~Caloosarat

                  _____

                  From: bolger@yahoogroups. com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                  Sam Glasscock
                  Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:02 AM
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: [bolger] Tennessee transom height question

                  I am starting to look for a high-thrust 9.9 for my Tennessee project. The
                  plans show about a 15" transom. The Yamaha high-thrusts only come in 20" or
                  25" shafts. It is easy enough to raise the transom. My question is, how
                  much. There is some rocker in the Tennessee, I will be running her at
                  displacement speeds, so having the cavitation plate no lower than the
                  waterline is not imperative, and I want to make sure the prop stays in the
                  water in a chop. I assume the hull bottom at the transom is slightly above
                  the water, lightly loaded. I'd appreciate any advice about the optimal
                  height of the transom to accommodate a 20" shaft motor. Thanks

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Maximo
                  Sam, on the article page in the photos section, if you switch your view configuration to large you could read the article, at least I can :) Máximo
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 1, 2008
                    Sam, on the article page in the photos section, if you switch your "view"
                    configuration to "large" you could read the article, at least I can :)

                    Máximo
                  • Sam Glasscock
                    Thanks, Maximo--I ll give it a try. ... From: Maximo Subject: RE: [bolger] Tennessee transom height question To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 1, 2008
                      Thanks, Maximo--I'll give it a try.

                      --- On Mon, 9/1/08, Maximo <grupos@...> wrote:

                      From: Maximo <grupos@...>
                      Subject: RE: [bolger] Tennessee transom height question
                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 9:42 AM






                      Sam, on the article page in the photos section, if you switch your "view"
                      configuration to "large" you could read the article, at least I can :)

                      Máximo


















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Chester Young
                      The one data point that directly correlates to the better speed is that the engine is now turning higher rpm’s. I did put a stainless steel prop on her
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 2, 2008
                        The one data point that directly correlates to the better speed is that the
                        engine is now turning higher rpm’s. I did put a stainless steel prop on
                        her earlier this year, but I suspect that a tune up from a certified
                        mechanic may also garner additional speed. Currently changing the oil in
                        the engine every 100 hours, and the grease in the lower unit every 50 hours.
                        Aside from new spark plugs there is little else for a non mechanic like
                        myself to do. Getting the boat on the trailer and to a shop just has not
                        happened yet. If I would quit driving her around perhaps then………..

                        My wife and I chartered the Mangrove Mistress back in 2003 / 2004. I took
                        my GPS and she only got 12-13 mph wide open running her 25 hp four stroke
                        Honda. It was enough for me, I was hooked, at that time she would not sell
                        the boat but was trying to sell the business and boat with it. If I had to
                        do it over I would likely install a 25 same as I have, there is a
                        significant difference between 15 mph and 10mph when traveling 20 miles or
                        more at one time.



                        Caloosarat



                        _____

                        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        Bob Rusk
                        Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 5:34 PM
                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [bolger] Re: Tennessee transom height question



                        Caloosarat,

                        I have long lusted after a Tennessee. I figure she'd be great here in
                        the Indian River Lagoon. Early reports had her running 10 mph with 10
                        hp and close to 15 mph with 15 hp (2-strokes, < 90 lbs). A calm-water
                        cruise speed of 13-14 mph would be ok by me, 10 mph would not.

                        I thought I had read somewhere that you were only getting 13 mph wide
                        open out of EstherMae with that 25 hp motor wide open, and this had
                        scared me away from the idea. I wanted to attribute her lower speed
                        to having so much weight aft (25 hp 4-stroke, 15 gal fuel tank,
                        seating aft of cockpit) and possibly some drag from her afterplanes.
                        Is my memory of EstherMae's performance faulty? Have you done
                        anything that could be credited with the speedup?

                        All of my knowledge of Tennessee is anecdotal and from photos, but it
                        makes for some great dream fodder. I had hoped to charter Mangrove
                        Mistress for a day to learn more (she is powered with a 25 hp Honda),
                        but she was sold a year or so before I was able to return to Key West
                        and I couldn't find her when I finally got back down there.

                        Anyway, any light you can shed on EstherMae's performance would be
                        greatly appreciated.

                        Bob

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Chester
                        Young" <chester@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Sam:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > In the photos section, within the EstherMae folder there are two photos
                        > relative to your current question.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Photo 6 shows the transom and a bit of the detail of the outboard style
                        > mount on EstherMae. It is difficult to tell from the photos but when
                        > sitting at rest with a four stroke 25hp, and a tank full of gasoline (15
                        > gallons, 3' forward of the transom) the chine directly at the
                        transom is no
                        > more than half way submerged.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Photo 7 shows the transom while underway. Keep in mind that I had
                        my 230
                        > lbs standing on the stern to take this photo so I am adding to the
                        weight in
                        > the stern considerably. What I see in #7 is that the stern
                        depresses when
                        > slightly when underway putting the chine fully underwater.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Ken has it right when he said to build the transom taller and cut if
                        needed.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I have never encountered a chop that has even come close to raising
                        the prop
                        > out of the water, however when taking quartering wakes from a
                        40'-60' boat
                        > running 20 mph past the EstherMae she has done enough of a broach to
                        put the
                        > prop out of the water. This has happened at least 5 times in the
                        last 2 ½
                        > years over 4,000 miles of running. I view it as my fault for not
                        being more
                        > tuned to the conditions. If that is a vice then it is one of the few a
                        > Tennessee has. Regardless in no case was the broach extreme enough
                        to make
                        > me feel as if rolling was imminent. Typically when there is a chop
                        I can
                        > watch small power boats, from 25' on down hobby horsing through the
                        waves
                        > and EstherMae just glides along, pitch is not a motion that a Tennessee
                        > engages in. I suspect that this is due to the narrow beam. If you are
                        > running in conditions that create much pitch you should consider
                        being back
                        > at the dock, as the hull is far to light for such weather. Heavy
                        weather
                        > also demands a speed of no more than 8-9 mph to prevent excessive
                        pounding
                        > of the bottom, which is throttled back from the 15-18 mph she can do
                        in a
                        > light chop. I have never been out in anything in excess of 3' and we
                        > regularly run around in 2' and less comfortably.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ~Caloosarat
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com
                        [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com] On
                        Behalf Of
                        > Sam Glasscock
                        > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:02 AM
                        > To: bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com
                        > Subject: [bolger] Tennessee transom height question
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I am starting to look for a high-thrust 9.9 for my Tennessee
                        project. The
                        > plans show about a 15" transom. The Yamaha high-thrusts only come
                        in 20" or
                        > 25" shafts. It is easy enough to raise the transom. My question
                        is, how
                        > much. There is some rocker in the Tennessee, I will be running her at
                        > displacement speeds, so having the cavitation plate no lower than the
                        > waterline is not imperative, and I want to make sure the prop stays
                        in the
                        > water in a chop. I assume the hull bottom at the transom is
                        slightly above
                        > the water, lightly loaded. I'd appreciate any advice about the optimal
                        > height of the transom to accommodate a 20" shaft motor. Thanks
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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