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Grind tape edges versus fair edges with thickened epoxy?

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  • Michael Galvin
    I am building a Payson pirogue, using the tack and tape method. I m using 2 inch wide fiberglass tape and epoxy to tape the inside and outside seams. The
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 2, 2008
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      I am building a Payson pirogue, using the tack and tape method. I'm using 2
      inch wide fiberglass tape and epoxy to tape the inside and outside seams.
      The edges of the tape stand proud of the plywood panel. Is this best
      smoothed by grinding down the edges of the fiberglass tape, or is it better
      to apply epoxy thickened with microballoons to fair the edges?



      Mike Galvin

      Muskegon, Michigan

      mgalvin.com/boatbuilding has items of interest to Bolgerphiles









      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kristine Bennett
      I would fill and fair the tape edge but also knock off any large lumps first. Krissie ... From: Michael Galvin Subject: [bolger]
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 2, 2008
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        I would fill and fair the tape edge but also knock off any large lumps first.

        Krissie

        --- On Sat, 8/2/08, Michael Galvin <michaelgalvin@...> wrote:
        From: Michael Galvin <michaelgalvin@...>
        Subject: [bolger] Grind tape edges versus fair edges with thickened epoxy?
        To: "Bolger Yahoo Group" <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 9:33 PM











        I am building a Payson pirogue, using the tack and tape method. I'm using 2

        inch wide fiberglass tape and epoxy to tape the inside and outside seams.

        The edges of the tape stand proud of the plywood panel. Is this best

        smoothed by grinding down the edges of the fiberglass tape, or is it better

        to apply epoxy thickened with microballoons to fair the edges?



        Mike Galvin



        Muskegon, Michigan



        mgalvin.com/ boatbuilding has items of interest to Bolgerphiles



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kenneth Grome
        After the epoxy in your glass tape has cured you should feather the edges down as smooth as possible. Then fair the feathered edge with a top coat of epoxy
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 2, 2008
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          After the epoxy in your glass tape has cured you should
          feather the edges down as smooth as possible. Then fair
          the feathered edge with a top coat of epoxy thickened with
          microballoons (or talc) and fumed silica.

          -------------------------

          The next time you tape your joints you might try covering
          the tape with a wider strip of tight-weave 100% polyester
          fabric before the epoxy starts stiffening up in your
          joints. Use your gloved hands or a plastic squeegee to
          carefully smooth out the glass and epoxy beneath the
          polyester cloth. The polyester on top of the glass will
          press and hold the edge of the glass tape down against the
          plywood panel while the epoxy cures.

          After the epoxy has cured, simply "peel off" the polyester
          fabric and throw it away. You'll be left with a nice,
          uniformly textured surface on your glass taped joints which
          effectively reduces or completely eliminates the sanding
          and feathering of the glass tape edges.

          Sincerely,
          Ken Grome
          Bagacay Boatworks
          www.bagacayboatworks.com






          > I am building a Payson pirogue, using the tack and tape
          > method. I'm using 2 inch wide fiberglass tape and epoxy
          > to tape the inside and outside seams. The edges of the
          > tape stand proud of the plywood panel. Is this best
          > smoothed by grinding down the edges of the fiberglass
          > tape, or is it better to apply epoxy thickened with
          > microballoons to fair the edges?
          >
          >
          >
          > Mike Galvin
          >
          > Muskegon, Michigan
          >
          > mgalvin.com/boatbuilding has items of interest to
          > Bolgerphiles
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John and Kathy Trussell
          The finished hull should be as smooth as possible. I do this by knocking the edges of the tape down with a Sandvik carbide blade shaper after the epoxy has
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 3, 2008
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            The finished hull should be as smooth as possible.

            I do this by knocking the edges of the tape down with a Sandvik carbide blade shaper after the epoxy has kicked and while it is still "green". Then I fair the tape using a wide putty knife and epoxy which has been thickened with micro balloons. The technique is similiar to mudding drywall tape and, for me, involves at least 3 coats with sanding in between.

            One of the frustrations of boat building is that the assembled hull represents no more than 40% of the time needed to finish the boat! However, the first thing people notice is the finish, and shortcuts taken during the finishing process can spoil the whole efffect. And at some point during the sand and fill (and sand some more) we all reach the 'Hell with it; that's good enough' point.

            JohnT
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Michael Galvin
            To: Bolger Yahoo Group
            Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 12:33 AM
            Subject: [bolger] Grind tape edges versus fair edges with thickened epoxy?


            I am building a Payson pirogue, using the tack and tape method. I'm using 2
            inch wide fiberglass tape and epoxy to tape the inside and outside seams.
            The edges of the tape stand proud of the plywood panel. Is this best
            smoothed by grinding down the edges of the fiberglass tape, or is it better
            to apply epoxy thickened with microballoons to fair the edges?

            Mike Galvin

            Muskegon, Michigan

            mgalvin.com/boatbuilding has items of interest to Bolgerphiles

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bruce Hallman
            ... And, that point could be right now! A Payson Pirogue would function just fine with no sanding or filling whats-so-ever, if you can accept the looks. There
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 3, 2008
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              >.... And at some point during the
              > sand and fill (and sand some more) we all reach the 'Hell with it; that's
              > good enough' point.

              And, that point could be right now!

              A Payson Pirogue would function just fine with no sanding or filling
              whats-so-ever, if you can accept the looks.

              There are a thousand possible techniques to smooth and fill, my
              general technique is to:

              1) Rough pass grind with a coarse angle grinder, and then flatten with
              coarse sandpaper on a belt sander.
              2) Then, using a flexible drywall taping knife spread on a very thin
              layer of epoxy including some glass microspheres to assist easy
              sanding. For vertical surfaces, include some thickening agent
              colloidal silica powder. Let cure until hard.
              4) Gently sand smooth, using fine paper on belt sander and/or random orbital.
              5) Primer paint. After the prime paint, imperfections can be better
              seen, and sometimes you need to back up and repeat some of the first
              steps.
              6) Finish fine sanding using a random orbital sander. Inevitably at
              this point you find a few surface imperfections and pin holes that
              need filling, and the quick-dry auto body "glazing and spot putty" is
              really handy.

              http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/woeimages/bondo/bon-907.jpg
            • echo172@comcast.net
              next time cut the edges with a utility knife ,new blade, before epoxy. it will come out like the good side on both sides. iused a 2 grinder disc 36 grit, 3m
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 3, 2008
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                next time cut the edges with a utility knife ,new blade, before epoxy. it will come out like the good side on both sides.
                iused a 2" grinder disc 36 grit, 3m from auto parts store in cordless drill. took it off fast. then faired the mess it made.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • James Pope
                The problem seems to be that the selvedge stands proud. Using a sharp razor type knife I cut off the edges before using the tape. The tape is a little unhandy
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 7, 2008
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                  The problem seems to be that the selvedge stands proud. Using a sharp
                  razor type knife I cut off the edges before using the tape. The tape is
                  a little unhandy after the cut but if rolled up and unrolled carefully
                  it will laminate without the bump.And the fairing is much less of a problem.

                  Jim

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                • Bruce Hallman
                  ... I routinely feather this edge smooth by giving it a light pass with a 4 1/2 angle grinder fitted with a backng pad and 36 grit sanding disk. It takes
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 7, 2008
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                    > The problem seems to be that the selvedge stands proud.

                    I routinely 'feather' this edge smooth by giving it a light pass with
                    a 4 1/2" angle grinder fitted with a backng pad and 36 grit sanding
                    disk. It takes some finesse and a steady hand, (because that grinder
                    does such quick work!), but with practice it is as easy as smoothing
                    butter.

                    http://www.amazon.com/BOSCH-MG0450-2-Inch-Sander-Backing/dp/B00069DVDI
                  • Harry James
                    Bruce You have some neat homemade deck organizers on the Micro. I can t remember where the pictures are. Would you mind pointing me to the correct site and
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 7, 2008
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                      Bruce

                      You have some neat homemade deck organizers on the Micro. I can't
                      remember where the pictures are. Would you mind pointing me to the
                      correct site and review how you built them?

                      HJ
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