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Re: [bolger] Design 613, Paddling Skiff

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  • Kenneth Grome
    The transom is below the waterline so it will drag when paddled, yet the boat still has a lot of rocker so it cannot benefit from having a straighter bottom
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
      The transom is below the waterline so it will drag when
      paddled, yet the boat still has a lot of rocker so it
      cannot benefit from having a straighter bottom that is
      often easier to propel.

      In another forum some of us were debating the value of
      designing with more rocker (in an effort to get the transom
      above the waterline) vs. keeping the bottom straighter for
      easier propulsion.

      This trade-off makes me wonder if it actually makes sense to
      add enough rocker to get the transom completely out of the
      water? Obviously Bolger doesn't think so in this case ...

      Sincerely,
      Ken Grome
      Bagacay Boatworks
      www.bagacayboatworks.com






      > I was just looking at my old pile of MAIB's (15Mar94) and
      > discovered a 'classic' Bolger Instant-Boat design with
      > which I was not familiar. 7'6" by 2'0", a simple
      > "Paddling Skiff" canoe like boat, buildable in a weekend,
      > the smallest in the Advanced Sharpie series I think.
      > Made out of about 1 and a half sheets of 1/4" plywood,
      > weighing about 40 lbs. The waterline shown in the
      > isometric is 200lbs.
      >
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/2724590489/
    • Giuliano Girometta
      Hi Ken, On which forum were such discussions? I will be very interested to go there and read such different opinions. As my personal opinion, by looking at
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
        Hi Ken,
        On which forum were such discussions?
        I will be very interested to go there and read such different opinions.
        As my personal opinion, by looking at different classic hull shapes I found that the most logic shape is the way how Atkin was thinking. A deep v shaped stem and then a straight line from about 1/4 or 2/3 of the lenght from the stem to the transom that is just at the W.L..
        If you can not tell about other forums on this one please send message directly to me.
        ggboat1@...
         
        Giuliano

        --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:

        From: Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
        Subject: Re: [bolger] Design 613, Paddling Skiff
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 3:09 AM






        The transom is below the waterline so it will drag when
        paddled, yet the boat still has a lot of rocker so it
        cannot benefit from having a straighter bottom that is
        often easier to propel.

        In another forum some of us were debating the value of
        designing with more rocker (in an effort to get the transom
        above the waterline) vs. keeping the bottom straighter for
        easier propulsion.

        This trade-off makes me wonder if it actually makes sense to
        add enough rocker to get the transom completely out of the
        water? Obviously Bolger doesn't think so in this case ...

        Sincerely,
        Ken Grome
        Bagacay Boatworks
        www.bagacayboatwork s.com

        > I was just looking at my old pile of MAIB's (15Mar94) and
        > discovered a 'classic' Bolger Instant-Boat design with
        > which I was not familiar. 7'6" by 2'0", a simple
        > "Paddling Skiff" canoe like boat, buildable in a weekend,
        > the smallest in the Advanced Sharpie series I think.
        > Made out of about 1 and a half sheets of 1/4" plywood,
        > weighing about 40 lbs. The waterline shown in the
        > isometric is 200lbs.
        >
        > http://www.flickr com/photos/ hallman/27245904 89/


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Doug Pollard
        ON my boat Wolftrap, Bolger seemed to think that that the bottom unstead iof being v d with deadrise offered less drag if that vee was rolled up in a curve. I
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 3, 2008
          ON my boat Wolftrap, Bolger seemed to think that that the bottom unstead
          iof being v'd with deadrise offered less drag if that vee was rolled up
          in a curve. I guess that made the amount of transom in the water very
          small. The amount of rocker was minamal. being only a few inches in 26ft.

          Doug


          Kenneth Grome wrote:
          >
          > The transom is below the waterline so it will drag when
          > paddled, yet the boat still has a lot of rocker so it
          > cannot benefit from having a straighter bottom that is
          > often easier to propel.
          >
          > In another forum some of us were debating the value of
          > designing with more rocker (in an effort to get the transom
          > above the waterline) vs. keeping the bottom straighter for
          > easier propulsion.
          >
          > This trade-off makes me wonder if it actually makes sense to
          > add enough rocker to get the transom completely out of the
          > water? Obviously Bolger doesn't think so in this case ...
          >
          > Sincerely,
          > Ken Grome
          > Bagacay Boatworks
          > www.bagacayboatworks.com
          >
          > > I was just looking at my old pile of MAIB's (15Mar94) and
          > > discovered a 'classic' Bolger Instant-Boat design with
          > > which I was not familiar. 7'6" by 2'0", a simple
          > > "Paddling Skiff" canoe like boat, buildable in a weekend,
          > > the smallest in the Advanced Sharpie series I think.
          > > Made out of about 1 and a half sheets of 1/4" plywood,
          > > weighing about 40 lbs. The waterline shown in the
          > > isometric is 200lbs.
          > >
          > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/2724590489/
          > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/2724590489/>
          >
          >
        • Bruce Hallman
          ... Actually, Bolger s waterline is drawn for two children, at 160 lbs. I modeled it in FreeShip because I wanted to get a better visualization of the 3D
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 3, 2008
            > This trade-off makes me wonder if it actually makes sense to
            > add enough rocker to get the transom completely out of the
            > water? Obviously Bolger doesn't think so in this case ...

            Actually, Bolger's waterline is drawn for two children, at 160 lbs. I
            modeled it in FreeShip because I wanted to get a better visualization
            of the 3D shape of the hull and also because I was trying to evaluate
            what it would be like if the boat was floating me personally, hence
            the 200 pound waterline. It *is* a very small boat, and dragging a
            inch or two of the transom would not cause a crisis I think.
          • graeme19121984
            This design reminds of the divergent opinions on Eeek! and the 12 Pirogue (Peero) as to what might be considered good and what might be not much of a boat, &
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 6, 2008
              This design reminds of the divergent opinions on Eeek! and the 12'
              Pirogue (Peero) as to what might be considered good and what might be
              not much of a boat, & etc. Yes, sinking the transom won't apply to
              Eeek!, which with its pointy stern can accept a wide range of loading,
              but that isn't the point - clearly Paddling Skiff has a specific load
              in mind. More to the point is height. I'm not exactly sure of the
              topsides height for Padddling Skiff, but from Bruce's depiction it
              would seem greater than that of Peero.

              A large part in PCB at one point saying that Peero was better than
              Eeek! was, relatively, the quite low height of the sides that allowed
              for acceptable use of a double paddle in Peero, but not in Eeek!

              As Paddling Skiff was designed for paddling by small, quickly out-
              growing children, the query arises as to why the topsides height was
              not as low as that of Peero; nor as meant for little kids, then
              relatively lower again?

              Graeme


              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
              >
              > > This trade-off makes me wonder if it actually makes sense to
              > > add enough rocker to get the transom completely out of the
              > > water? Obviously Bolger doesn't think so in this case ...
              >
              > Actually, Bolger's waterline is drawn for two children, at 160 lbs. I
              > modeled it in FreeShip because I wanted to get a better visualization
              > of the 3D shape of the hull and also because I was trying to evaluate
              > what it would be like if the boat was floating me personally, hence
              > the 200 pound waterline. It *is* a very small boat, and dragging a
              > inch or two of the transom would not cause a crisis I think.
              >
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