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Re:Design 613, Paddling Skiff

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  • Don Schultz
    Bolger has done scaled down versions to test a theory. Examples are Bee, the forerunner to Hawkeye, Microtrawler, and retriever. Also Eeek!, ahead of the AS
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
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      Bolger has done scaled down versions to test a theory. Examples are Bee,
      the forerunner to Hawkeye, Microtrawler, and retriever. Also Eeek!, ahead
      of the AS series, and a Brick with a flooded box keel, the name/number of
      which I've forgotten.

      They really weren't intended to be practical designs with a large following
      IE, Micro, or Sneakeasy

      Don't know the timing of this design, but I wonder if was intended to test a
      design.

      Don Schultz

      "If you don't know where you're going, you'll end up somewhere else." Yogi
      Berra


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bruce Hallman
      ... Quoting PCB from the very brief write up in MAIB: Dr. Nathan asked me if I had a design easy and quick to build, for a couple of small children to play
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
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        > Don't know the timing of this design, but I wonder if was intended to test a
        > design.
        >
        > Don Schultz

        Quoting PCB from the very brief write up in MAIB: "Dr. Nathan asked
        me if I had a design easy and quick to build, for a couple of small
        children to play with. I didn't have quite what he had in mind, but I
        thought I could do it quickly if he could work from a rather informal
        plan. The design was done on a sheet of typewriter paper in 3 1/2
        hours...I hope he gets it done before the youngsters outgrow it..."

        Design 613 is a relatively high number I think, for instance, Advanced
        Sharpie 29 is design number 547.
      • Kenneth Grome
        The transom is below the waterline so it will drag when paddled, yet the boat still has a lot of rocker so it cannot benefit from having a straighter bottom
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
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          The transom is below the waterline so it will drag when
          paddled, yet the boat still has a lot of rocker so it
          cannot benefit from having a straighter bottom that is
          often easier to propel.

          In another forum some of us were debating the value of
          designing with more rocker (in an effort to get the transom
          above the waterline) vs. keeping the bottom straighter for
          easier propulsion.

          This trade-off makes me wonder if it actually makes sense to
          add enough rocker to get the transom completely out of the
          water? Obviously Bolger doesn't think so in this case ...

          Sincerely,
          Ken Grome
          Bagacay Boatworks
          www.bagacayboatworks.com






          > I was just looking at my old pile of MAIB's (15Mar94) and
          > discovered a 'classic' Bolger Instant-Boat design with
          > which I was not familiar. 7'6" by 2'0", a simple
          > "Paddling Skiff" canoe like boat, buildable in a weekend,
          > the smallest in the Advanced Sharpie series I think.
          > Made out of about 1 and a half sheets of 1/4" plywood,
          > weighing about 40 lbs. The waterline shown in the
          > isometric is 200lbs.
          >
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/2724590489/
        • Giuliano Girometta
          Hi Ken, On which forum were such discussions? I will be very interested to go there and read such different opinions. As my personal opinion, by looking at
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
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            Hi Ken,
            On which forum were such discussions?
            I will be very interested to go there and read such different opinions.
            As my personal opinion, by looking at different classic hull shapes I found that the most logic shape is the way how Atkin was thinking. A deep v shaped stem and then a straight line from about 1/4 or 2/3 of the lenght from the stem to the transom that is just at the W.L..
            If you can not tell about other forums on this one please send message directly to me.
            ggboat1@...
             
            Giuliano

            --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:

            From: Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
            Subject: Re: [bolger] Design 613, Paddling Skiff
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 3:09 AM






            The transom is below the waterline so it will drag when
            paddled, yet the boat still has a lot of rocker so it
            cannot benefit from having a straighter bottom that is
            often easier to propel.

            In another forum some of us were debating the value of
            designing with more rocker (in an effort to get the transom
            above the waterline) vs. keeping the bottom straighter for
            easier propulsion.

            This trade-off makes me wonder if it actually makes sense to
            add enough rocker to get the transom completely out of the
            water? Obviously Bolger doesn't think so in this case ...

            Sincerely,
            Ken Grome
            Bagacay Boatworks
            www.bagacayboatwork s.com

            > I was just looking at my old pile of MAIB's (15Mar94) and
            > discovered a 'classic' Bolger Instant-Boat design with
            > which I was not familiar. 7'6" by 2'0", a simple
            > "Paddling Skiff" canoe like boat, buildable in a weekend,
            > the smallest in the Advanced Sharpie series I think.
            > Made out of about 1 and a half sheets of 1/4" plywood,
            > weighing about 40 lbs. The waterline shown in the
            > isometric is 200lbs.
            >
            > http://www.flickr com/photos/ hallman/27245904 89/


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Doug Pollard
            ON my boat Wolftrap, Bolger seemed to think that that the bottom unstead iof being v d with deadrise offered less drag if that vee was rolled up in a curve. I
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 3, 2008
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              ON my boat Wolftrap, Bolger seemed to think that that the bottom unstead
              iof being v'd with deadrise offered less drag if that vee was rolled up
              in a curve. I guess that made the amount of transom in the water very
              small. The amount of rocker was minamal. being only a few inches in 26ft.

              Doug


              Kenneth Grome wrote:
              >
              > The transom is below the waterline so it will drag when
              > paddled, yet the boat still has a lot of rocker so it
              > cannot benefit from having a straighter bottom that is
              > often easier to propel.
              >
              > In another forum some of us were debating the value of
              > designing with more rocker (in an effort to get the transom
              > above the waterline) vs. keeping the bottom straighter for
              > easier propulsion.
              >
              > This trade-off makes me wonder if it actually makes sense to
              > add enough rocker to get the transom completely out of the
              > water? Obviously Bolger doesn't think so in this case ...
              >
              > Sincerely,
              > Ken Grome
              > Bagacay Boatworks
              > www.bagacayboatworks.com
              >
              > > I was just looking at my old pile of MAIB's (15Mar94) and
              > > discovered a 'classic' Bolger Instant-Boat design with
              > > which I was not familiar. 7'6" by 2'0", a simple
              > > "Paddling Skiff" canoe like boat, buildable in a weekend,
              > > the smallest in the Advanced Sharpie series I think.
              > > Made out of about 1 and a half sheets of 1/4" plywood,
              > > weighing about 40 lbs. The waterline shown in the
              > > isometric is 200lbs.
              > >
              > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/2724590489/
              > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/2724590489/>
              >
              >
            • Bruce Hallman
              ... Actually, Bolger s waterline is drawn for two children, at 160 lbs. I modeled it in FreeShip because I wanted to get a better visualization of the 3D
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 3, 2008
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                > This trade-off makes me wonder if it actually makes sense to
                > add enough rocker to get the transom completely out of the
                > water? Obviously Bolger doesn't think so in this case ...

                Actually, Bolger's waterline is drawn for two children, at 160 lbs. I
                modeled it in FreeShip because I wanted to get a better visualization
                of the 3D shape of the hull and also because I was trying to evaluate
                what it would be like if the boat was floating me personally, hence
                the 200 pound waterline. It *is* a very small boat, and dragging a
                inch or two of the transom would not cause a crisis I think.
              • graeme19121984
                This design reminds of the divergent opinions on Eeek! and the 12 Pirogue (Peero) as to what might be considered good and what might be not much of a boat, &
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 6, 2008
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                  This design reminds of the divergent opinions on Eeek! and the 12'
                  Pirogue (Peero) as to what might be considered good and what might be
                  not much of a boat, & etc. Yes, sinking the transom won't apply to
                  Eeek!, which with its pointy stern can accept a wide range of loading,
                  but that isn't the point - clearly Paddling Skiff has a specific load
                  in mind. More to the point is height. I'm not exactly sure of the
                  topsides height for Padddling Skiff, but from Bruce's depiction it
                  would seem greater than that of Peero.

                  A large part in PCB at one point saying that Peero was better than
                  Eeek! was, relatively, the quite low height of the sides that allowed
                  for acceptable use of a double paddle in Peero, but not in Eeek!

                  As Paddling Skiff was designed for paddling by small, quickly out-
                  growing children, the query arises as to why the topsides height was
                  not as low as that of Peero; nor as meant for little kids, then
                  relatively lower again?

                  Graeme


                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > This trade-off makes me wonder if it actually makes sense to
                  > > add enough rocker to get the transom completely out of the
                  > > water? Obviously Bolger doesn't think so in this case ...
                  >
                  > Actually, Bolger's waterline is drawn for two children, at 160 lbs. I
                  > modeled it in FreeShip because I wanted to get a better visualization
                  > of the 3D shape of the hull and also because I was trying to evaluate
                  > what it would be like if the boat was floating me personally, hence
                  > the 200 pound waterline. It *is* a very small boat, and dragging a
                  > inch or two of the transom would not cause a crisis I think.
                  >
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