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Micro bottom butt straps

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  • Col
    Hi group, I m about to put the bottom on my Micro, went for the half inch bottom, single layer with butt straps. For plywood economy I made my butt straps out
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 13, 2008
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      Hi group,
      I'm about to put the bottom on my Micro, went for the half inch
      bottom, single layer with butt straps. For plywood economy I made my
      butt straps out of left over 3/8 ply, 4 inches wide. Phil specified 2
      layers of 1/4 inch, 4 inches wide with his original 1/4 inch bottom.
      Do you think what I'm doing will be OK, or should my straps be
      thicker/wider?
      Cheers,
      Col
    • Kristine Bennett
      I remember reading some place where the butt straps should be as thick or thicker then the ply of the skin, and I think it was 6 to 8 times the skin thickness
      Message 2 of 25 , Jul 13, 2008
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        I remember reading some place where the butt straps should be as thick or thicker then the ply of the skin, and I think it was 6 to 8 times the skin thickness each side of the seam as well. I remember reading it but I can't remember where.

        Krissie


        Hi group,

        I'm about to put the bottom on my Micro, went for the half inch

        bottom, single layer with butt straps. For plywood economy I made my

        butt straps out of left over 3/8 ply, 4 inches wide. Phil specified 2

        layers of 1/4 inch, 4 inches wide with his original 1/4 inch bottom.

        Do you think what I'm doing will be OK, or should my straps be

        thicker/wider?

        Cheers,

        Col





























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
        I would go wider with the 3/8 to 6 or 8 others will have other ideas. Jon ... 2
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 13, 2008
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          I would go wider with the 3/8 to 6 or 8" others will have other ideas.

          Jon

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Col" <colmooney@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi group,
          > I'm about to put the bottom on my Micro, went for the half inch
          > bottom, single layer with butt straps. For plywood economy I made my
          > butt straps out of left over 3/8 ply, 4 inches wide. Phil specified
          2
          > layers of 1/4 inch, 4 inches wide with his original 1/4 inch bottom.
          > Do you think what I'm doing will be OK, or should my straps be
          > thicker/wider?
          > Cheers,
          > Col
          >
        • Howard Stephenson
          Eight times seems about right to me, if you re using the same thickness for the buttstrap as the ply sheets you re holding together. For Bolger s Diablo,
          Message 4 of 25 , Jul 14, 2008
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            Eight times seems about right to me, if you're using the same
            thickness for the buttstrap as the ply sheets you're holding
            together. For Bolger's Diablo, Harold Payson recommends 4" wide
            buttstraps out of 1/4" ply for the 1/4" ply sides. That's 16:1 or
            8:1 on each side of the join.

            Howard

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
            >
            > I remember reading some place where the butt straps should be as
            thick or thicker then the ply of the skin, and I think it was 6 to 8
            times the skin thickness each side of the seam as well. I remember
            reading it but I can't remember where.
            >
            > Krissie
            >
            >
            > Hi group,
            >
            > I'm about to put the bottom on my Micro, went for the half inch
            >
            > bottom, single layer with butt straps. For plywood economy I made
            my
            >
            > butt straps out of left over 3/8 ply, 4 inches wide. Phil
            specified 2
            >
            > layers of 1/4 inch, 4 inches wide with his original 1/4 inch
            bottom.
            >
            > Do you think what I'm doing will be OK, or should my straps be
            >
            > thicker/wider?
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > Col
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • 9buck crowley
            Col You didn t ask for this but I d eliminate the straps In favor of another method. I used straps in my boat. Even after beveling the edges they act as dams
            Message 5 of 25 , Jul 14, 2008
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              Col

              You didn't ask for this but I'd eliminate the straps In favor of another method. I used straps in my boat. Even after beveling the edges they act as dams for water and debris making the boat much harder to clean and keep dry. Scarfing is not that difficult with plywood if it's good quality and fiberglassed butt joints are reputed to be very strong despite what your intuition might tell you.

              Buck
              ________________________________
              > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              > From: colmooney@...
              > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 05:27:16 +0000
              > Subject: [bolger] Micro bottom butt straps
              >
              >
              > Hi group,
              > I'm about to put the bottom on my Micro, went for the half inch
              > bottom, single layer with butt straps. For plywood economy I made my
              > butt straps out of left over 3/8 ply, 4 inches wide. Phil specified 2
              > layers of 1/4 inch, 4 inches wide with his original 1/4 inch bottom.
              > Do you think what I'm doing will be OK, or should my straps be
              > thicker/wider?
              > Cheers,
              > Col
              >
              >
              >

              _________________________________________________________________
              It’s a talkathon – but it’s not just talk.
              http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk
            • Sam Glasscock
              I apologize for this question, because I know it must have been asked before, but can epoxy/glass tape construction be used directly on MDO? Does the overlay
              Message 6 of 25 , Jul 14, 2008
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                I apologize for this question, because I know it must have been asked before, but can epoxy/glass tape construction be used directly on MDO? Does the overlay have to be removed or roughed up before the epoxy/tape will adhere? If I glue dierectly to the overlay, how will the strength of that joint compare to one made to regular fir ply? Thanks
              • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                It will stick directly but there are two reasons to sand with a ROS and 60 grit. It roughs it up for a even better grip (not needed) but if there is any flaw
                Message 7 of 25 , Jul 14, 2008
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                  It will stick directly but there are two reasons to sand with a ROS and
                  60 grit. It roughs it up for a even better grip (not needed) but if
                  there is any flaw under the overlay it will show up as a nonsanded spot
                  for pin knots and line for venear gap. Not all MDO is created equal.

                  Jon

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > I apologize for this question, because I know it must have been asked
                  before, but can epoxy/glass tape construction be used directly on MDO?
                  Does the overlay have to be removed or roughed up before the epoxy/tape
                  will adhere? If I glue dierectly to the overlay, how will the strength
                  of that joint compare to one made to regular fir ply? Thanks
                  >
                • John and Kathy Trussell
                  I used MDO to bulid a 19 foot stich and glue Michalak design a couple of years ago and it has held up nicely. I think someone build a gold plater version of
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jul 14, 2008
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                    I used MDO to bulid a 19 foot stich and glue Michalak design a couple of years ago and it has held up nicely. I think someone build a gold plater version of Micro several years ago with MDO, but that is not s&g.

                    I view MDO (and I am speaking of Signal MDO) as a multi veneer plywood with the outer veneer being the overlay. The overlay itself is some sort of paper product which has been saturated with glue and is somewhat tougher than a wooden veneer. I think that if you are satisfied that epoxy and tape will stick to a layer of epoxy and tape (which is what the second layer of tape does on stitch and glue) you shouldn't worry about MDO.

                    Signal is very nice stuff with minimal voids and very uniform quality. I cut up 17 sheets of it with skill saw and saber saw. I planed on it with hand and power planes and sandedit with everything from a side grinder to hand. Throughout, it stuck together and I found no flaws. My only knock on MDO is that 3/8's is the thinnest size available. Otherwise, I recommend it without reservation.

                    JohnT
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Sam Glasscock
                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:19 PM
                    Subject: [bolger] MDO and stitch-and-glue


                    I apologize for this question, because I know it must have been asked before, but can epoxy/glass tape construction be used directly on MDO? Does the overlay have to be removed or roughed up before the epoxy/tape will adhere? If I glue dierectly to the overlay, how will the strength of that joint compare to one made to regular fir ply? Thanks






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                  • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                    Oly ply makes Signal in 5/16ths and 1/4 you just have to buy a whole unit if someone else hasnt and is selling sheets. Jon ... couple of years ago and it has
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jul 14, 2008
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                      Oly ply makes Signal in 5/16ths and 1/4" you just have to buy a whole
                      unit if someone else hasnt and is selling sheets.

                      Jon

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell"
                      <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I used MDO to bulid a 19 foot stich and glue Michalak design a
                      couple of years ago and it has held up nicely. I think someone build
                      a gold plater version of Micro several years ago with MDO, but that
                      is not s&g.
                      >
                      > I view MDO (and I am speaking of Signal MDO) as a multi veneer
                      plywood with the outer veneer being the overlay. The overlay itself
                      is some sort of paper product which has been saturated with glue and
                      is somewhat tougher than a wooden veneer. I think that if you are
                      satisfied that epoxy and tape will stick to a layer of epoxy and tape
                      (which is what the second layer of tape does on stitch and glue) you
                      shouldn't worry about MDO.
                      >
                      > Signal is very nice stuff with minimal voids and very uniform
                      quality. I cut up 17 sheets of it with skill saw and saber saw. I
                      planed on it with hand and power planes and sandedit with everything
                      from a side grinder to hand. Throughout, it stuck together and I
                      found no flaws. My only knock on MDO is that 3/8's is the thinnest
                      size available. Otherwise, I recommend it without reservation.
                    • Pierce Nichols
                      How many sheets are in a unit? -p ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jul 20, 2008
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                        How many sheets are in a unit?

                        -p

                        On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:

                        > Oly ply makes Signal in 5/16ths and 1/4" you just have to buy a whole
                        > unit if someone else hasnt and is selling sheets.
                        >
                        > Jon
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell"
                        > <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I used MDO to bulid a 19 foot stich and glue Michalak design a
                        > couple of years ago and it has held up nicely. I think someone build
                        > a gold plater version of Micro several years ago with MDO, but that
                        > is not s&g.
                        > >
                        > > I view MDO (and I am speaking of Signal MDO) as a multi veneer
                        > plywood with the outer veneer being the overlay. The overlay itself
                        > is some sort of paper product which has been saturated with glue and
                        > is somewhat tougher than a wooden veneer. I think that if you are
                        > satisfied that epoxy and tape will stick to a layer of epoxy and tape
                        > (which is what the second layer of tape does on stitch and glue) you
                        > shouldn't worry about MDO.
                        > >
                        > > Signal is very nice stuff with minimal voids and very uniform
                        > quality. I cut up 17 sheets of it with skill saw and saber saw. I
                        > planed on it with hand and power planes and sandedit with everything
                        > from a side grinder to hand. Throughout, it stuck together and I
                        > found no flaws. My only knock on MDO is that 3/8's is the thinnest
                        > size available. Otherwise, I recommend it without reservation.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Bolger rules!!!
                        > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
                        > horses
                        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
                        > (978) 282-1349
                        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo!
                        > Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Bruce Hallman
                        ... It varies and depends on the type and thickness of the plywood. A unit is a stack of plywood about 30 inches +/- tall For 1/2 plywood about 60 sheets
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jul 20, 2008
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                          > How many sheets are in a unit?

                          It varies and depends on the type and thickness of the plywood.
                          A unit is a stack of plywood about 30 inches +/- tall

                          For 1/2" plywood about 60 sheets

                          http://afa.ca/products.php?c=7&s=13
                        • Harry James
                          Crezon comes in 5/16th s, I have never used it but others have spoken well of it on this list. http://www.olypanel.com/signMaking/ HJ
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jul 24, 2008
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                            Crezon comes in 5/16th's, I have never used it but others have spoken
                            well of it on this list.

                            http://www.olypanel.com/signMaking/

                            HJ

                            John and Kathy Trussell wrote:
                            > I used MDO to bulid a 19 foot stich and glue Michalak design a couple of years ago and it has held up nicely. I think someone build a gold plater version of Micro several years ago with MDO, but that is not s&g.
                            >
                            > I view MDO (and I am speaking of Signal MDO) as a multi veneer plywood with the outer veneer being the overlay. The overlay itself is some sort of paper product which has been saturated with glue and is somewhat tougher than a wooden veneer. I think that if you are satisfied that epoxy and tape will stick to a layer of epoxy and tape (which is what the second layer of tape does on stitch and glue) you shouldn't worry about MDO.
                            >
                            > Signal is very nice stuff with minimal voids and very uniform quality. I cut up 17 sheets of it with skill saw and saber saw. I planed on it with hand and power planes and sandedit with everything from a side grinder to hand. Throughout, it stuck together and I found no flaws. My only knock on MDO is that 3/8's is the thinnest size available. Otherwise, I recommend it without reservation.
                            >
                            > JohnT
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Sam Glasscock
                            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:19 PM
                            > Subject: [bolger] MDO and stitch-and-glue
                            >
                            >
                            > I apologize for this question, because I know it must have been asked before, but can epoxy/glass tape construction be used directly on MDO? Does the overlay have to be removed or roughed up before the epoxy/tape will adhere? If I glue dierectly to the overlay, how will the strength of that joint compare to one made to regular fir ply? Thanks
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            >
                            > No virus found in this incoming message.
                            > Checked by AVG.
                            > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Bolger rules!!!
                            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Patrick Crockett
                            A friend just asked me for advice about fiberglassing plywood for replacing the sides on a horse trailer. I would think that polyester would be a fine resin
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jul 25, 2008
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                              A friend just asked me for advice about fiberglassing plywood for
                              replacing the sides on a horse trailer. I would think that polyester
                              would be a fine resin for this and less expensive than epoxy, but I
                              haven't used polyester for about 40 years.

                              I vaguely recall people saying polyester doesn't always stick well to
                              plywood. I had no such problem 40 years ago, but maybe I was lucky. Are
                              there issues or practices to be careful about to ensure adhesion? Does
                              it matter whether he uses plain old exterior fir or pine?

                              I know where to order gallons of epoxy but I don't know where to go for
                              polyester. When I was kid, my dad brought it home from somewhere --
                              never knew where. May have bought it at the place where they
                              manufactured Dolphin sailboats. Does anyone have links to sites for
                              purchase? Would West Marine or a local agricultural supply place be
                              sources? (Those are the places I go for trailer kits.)

                              Are there issues around formulation, like with epoxy where you can pay
                              more for non-blushing formulas?

                              Will any old paint do when he is done? I suggested latex porch paint, he
                              had been advised to go with a marine paing (a one part polyurethane, I
                              imagine), but that really seems like overkill to me.

                              Thanks for any help/advice.

                              Patrick
                            • David C.
                              As long as he is not relying on the resin as a load-bearing part of the structure, he should be OK. I bet you can get this stuff at a big box hardware store
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jul 25, 2008
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                                As long as he is not relying on the resin as a load-bearing part of the structure, he should be OK.

                                I bet you can get this stuff at a big box hardware store like Home Depot or Lowes. if not, a Googling of "polyester resin" should give you lots a places to buy.

                                Yes . . . marine paint is overkill. Any exterior latex primer and paint will look fine. Lasts 10+ years on houses, doesn't it?

                                Question . . . Why is he bothering to fiberglas the walls? A quality exterior plywood with a good finish, a coat of primer and two coats of exterior paint would do the job, without the mess and expense of the fiberlasing. I don't see what the fiberglas adds to the project.

                                David C


                                ---- Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
                                > A friend just asked me for advice about fiberglassing plywood for
                                > replacing the sides on a horse trailer. I would think that polyester
                                > would be a fine resin for this and less expensive than epoxy, but I
                                > haven't used polyester for about 40 years.
                                >
                                > I vaguely recall people saying polyester doesn't always stick well to
                                > plywood. I had no such problem 40 years ago, but maybe I was lucky. Are
                                > there issues or practices to be careful about to ensure adhesion? Does
                                > it matter whether he uses plain old exterior fir or pine?
                                >
                                > I know where to order gallons of epoxy but I don't know where to go for
                                > polyester. When I was kid, my dad brought it home from somewhere --
                                > never knew where. May have bought it at the place where they
                                > manufactured Dolphin sailboats. Does anyone have links to sites for
                                > purchase? Would West Marine or a local agricultural supply place be
                                > sources? (Those are the places I go for trailer kits.)
                                >
                                > Are there issues around formulation, like with epoxy where you can pay
                                > more for non-blushing formulas?
                                >
                                > Will any old paint do when he is done? I suggested latex porch paint, he
                                > had been advised to go with a marine paing (a one part polyurethane, I
                                > imagine), but that really seems like overkill to me.
                                >
                                > Thanks for any help/advice.
                                >
                                > Patrick
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Bolger rules!!!
                                > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Kristine Bennett
                                From what I ve used polyester and it s been a lot, he would want to get one that was for marine use. They tend to stick better to wood. When he does his layup
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jul 25, 2008
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                                  From what I've used polyester and it's been a lot, he would want to get one that was for marine use. They tend to stick better to wood. When he does his layup he is going to need to scuff up the wood and give it some tooth and then prime the wood and let it tack then go over it with like a 2 oz mat and something like a 7781 cloth. The hassle with using the 6 oz boat cloth is it's very open and you can and will have all kinds of pinholes.

                                  He just has to remember DO NOT GET ANY RESIN WITH WAX IN IT!!! Yes it will stay tacky for a long while. But I have found that cheap paint will also stick to it very well.

                                  I checked with my supplier and the 7781 is 8.7 oz and is cheaper then the 6 oz boat cloth. It also has a higher thread count and has a satin finsh so it will be easer to get a nice paint job..... One of my suppliers is www.fiberglasssupply.com I like working with them and they have most of what I need when I need it. They also ship any where in the US

                                  I'm with you on the paint. But seeing how he is planing on using polyester why not use gelcoat and not mess with paint? At a later date he can take a sander to the gelcoat and smooth it for a real paint job.

                                  Drop me a note if you need any advice or how to tricks. He will need some tools for working the air bubbles out of the mat before he puts the cloth down.

                                  I have used more polyester  then epoxy by about 1000 to 1 or more. When I have seen the wood glass bond fail was do to not doing the job right the first time.

                                  Blessings all and enjoy the weekend.
                                   Krissie


                                  --- On Fri, 7/25/08, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
                                  From: Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...>
                                  Subject: [bolger] Polyester resin questions
                                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 5:53 AM











                                  A friend just asked me for advice about fiberglassing plywood for

                                  replacing the sides on a horse trailer. I would think that polyester

                                  would be a fine resin for this and less expensive than epoxy, but I

                                  haven't used polyester for about 40 years.



                                  I vaguely recall people saying polyester doesn't always stick well to

                                  plywood. I had no such problem 40 years ago, but maybe I was lucky. Are

                                  there issues or practices to be careful about to ensure adhesion? Does

                                  it matter whether he uses plain old exterior fir or pine?



                                  I know where to order gallons of epoxy but I don't know where to go for

                                  polyester. When I was kid, my dad brought it home from somewhere --

                                  never knew where. May have bought it at the place where they

                                  manufactured Dolphin sailboats. Does anyone have links to sites for

                                  purchase? Would West Marine or a local agricultural supply place be

                                  sources? (Those are the places I go for trailer kits.)



                                  Are there issues around formulation, like with epoxy where you can pay

                                  more for non-blushing formulas?



                                  Will any old paint do when he is done? I suggested latex porch paint, he

                                  had been advised to go with a marine paing (a one part polyurethane, I

                                  imagine), but that really seems like overkill to me.



                                  Thanks for any help/advice.



                                  Patrick





























                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Paul Esterle
                                  www.mertons.com No connection but a great guy to deal with... Paul Esterle Freelance Boating Writer Columbia 10.7, 26 & Matilda 20 North East, MD. “Capt’n
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jul 25, 2008
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                                    www.mertons.com

                                    No connection but a great guy to deal with...

                                    Paul Esterle
                                    Freelance Boating Writer
                                    Columbia 10.7, 26 & Matilda 20
                                    North East, MD.
                                    “Capt’n Pauley’s Boat Repairs & Upgrades”
                                    book at www.captnpauley.com
                                    home.comcast.net/~pesterle/



                                    Patrick Crockett wrote:
                                    >
                                    > A friend just asked me for advice about fiberglassing plywood for
                                    > replacing the sides on a horse trailer. I would think that polyester
                                    > would be a fine resin for this and less expensive than epoxy, but I
                                    > haven't used polyester for about 40 years.
                                    >
                                    > I vaguely recall people saying polyester doesn't always stick well to
                                    > plywood. I had no such problem 40 years ago, but maybe I was lucky. Are
                                    > there issues or practices to be careful about to ensure adhesion? Does
                                    > it matter whether he uses plain old exterior fir or pine?
                                    >
                                    > I know where to order gallons of epoxy but I don't know where to go for
                                    > polyester. When I was kid, my dad brought it home from somewhere --
                                    > never knew where. May have bought it at the place where they
                                    > manufactured Dolphin sailboats. Does anyone have links to sites for
                                    > purchase? Would West Marine or a local agricultural supply place be
                                    > sources? (Those are the places I go for trailer kits.)
                                    >
                                    > Are there issues around formulation, like with epoxy where you can pay
                                    > more for non-blushing formulas?
                                    >
                                    > Will any old paint do when he is done? I suggested latex porch paint, he
                                    > had been advised to go with a marine paing (a one part polyurethane, I
                                    > imagine), but that really seems like overkill to me.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for any help/advice.
                                    >
                                    > Patrick
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                    Rather then going through all that why not just use HDO it is a well glued plywood used for foundation forms and semi trailer beds. Realy tough stuff and won t
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jul 26, 2008
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                                      Rather then going through all that why not just use HDO it is a well
                                      glued plywood used for foundation forms and semi trailer beds. Realy
                                      tough stuff and won't need painted just edge sealed.

                                      Jon

                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > A friend just asked me for advice about fiberglassing plywood for
                                      > replacing the sides on a horse trailer. I would think that
                                      polyester
                                      > would be a fine resin for this and less expensive than epoxy, but I
                                      > haven't used polyester for about 40 years.
                                      >
                                      > I vaguely recall people saying polyester doesn't always stick well
                                      to
                                      > plywood. I had no such problem 40 years ago, but maybe I was lucky.
                                      Are
                                      > there issues or practices to be careful about to ensure adhesion?
                                      Does
                                      > it matter whether he uses plain old exterior fir or pine?
                                      >
                                      > I know where to order gallons of epoxy but I don't know where to go
                                      for
                                      > polyester. When I was kid, my dad brought it home from somewhere --

                                      > never knew where. May have bought it at the place where they
                                      > manufactured Dolphin sailboats. Does anyone have links to sites for
                                      > purchase? Would West Marine or a local agricultural supply place be
                                      > sources? (Those are the places I go for trailer kits.)
                                      >
                                      > Are there issues around formulation, like with epoxy where you can
                                      pay
                                      > more for non-blushing formulas?
                                      >
                                      > Will any old paint do when he is done? I suggested latex porch
                                      paint, he
                                      > had been advised to go with a marine paing (a one part
                                      polyurethane, I
                                      > imagine), but that really seems like overkill to me.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks for any help/advice.
                                      >
                                      > Patrick
                                      >
                                    • Giuliano Girometta
                                      Be carefull with the HDO made for forms, is not the same thing as MDO. The stuff made for forms is treated with a releasing agent that prevent concrete and
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jul 27, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Be carefull with the HDO made for forms, is not the same thing as MDO. The stuff made for forms is treated with a releasing agent that prevent concrete and other stuff poured into to stick to the surface. Therefore one day all the job may come apart.
                                         
                                        Giuliano

                                        --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:

                                        From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                                        Subject: [bolger] Re: Polyester resin questions
                                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 7:54 AM






                                        Rather then going through all that why not just use HDO it is a well
                                        glued plywood used for foundation forms and semi trailer beds. Realy
                                        tough stuff and won't need painted just edge sealed.

                                        Jon

                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@. ..> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > A friend just asked me for advice about fiberglassing plywood for
                                        > replacing the sides on a horse trailer. I would think that
                                        polyester
                                        > would be a fine resin for this and less expensive than epoxy, but I
                                        > haven't used polyester for about 40 years.
                                        >
                                        > I vaguely recall people saying polyester doesn't always stick well
                                        to
                                        > plywood. I had no such problem 40 years ago, but maybe I was lucky.
                                        Are
                                        > there issues or practices to be careful about to ensure adhesion?
                                        Does
                                        > it matter whether he uses plain old exterior fir or pine?
                                        >
                                        > I know where to order gallons of epoxy but I don't know where to go
                                        for
                                        > polyester. When I was kid, my dad brought it home from somewhere --

                                        > never knew where. May have bought it at the place where they
                                        > manufactured Dolphin sailboats. Does anyone have links to sites for
                                        > purchase? Would West Marine or a local agricultural supply place be
                                        > sources? (Those are the places I go for trailer kits.)
                                        >
                                        > Are there issues around formulation, like with epoxy where you can
                                        pay
                                        > more for non-blushing formulas?
                                        >
                                        > Will any old paint do when he is done? I suggested latex porch
                                        paint, he
                                        > had been advised to go with a marine paing (a one part
                                        polyurethane, I
                                        > imagine), but that really seems like overkill to me.
                                        >
                                        > Thanks for any help/advice.
                                        >
                                        > Patrick
                                        >


















                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                        HDO is not treated when new contractors that use it for cement forms treat it them selfs normaly with diesal oil. New it has a thicker harder smoth overlay
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jul 27, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          HDO is not treated when new contractors that use it for cement forms
                                          treat it them selfs normaly with diesal oil. New it has a thicker
                                          harder smoth overlay used commenly for 18 wheel trailer beds. To
                                          paint it it needs sanded to get some bite but would not need epoxy or
                                          poly coating to last 20 years as sides on a horse trailer.

                                          Jon

                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Be carefull with the HDO made for forms, is not the same thing as
                                          MDO. The stuff made for forms is treated with a releasing agent that
                                          prevent concrete and other stuff poured into to stick to the surface.
                                          Therefore one day all the job may come apart.
                                          >  
                                          > Giuliano
                                          >
                                          > --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                                          > Subject: [bolger] Re: Polyester resin questions
                                          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 7:54 AM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Rather then going through all that why not just use HDO it is a
                                          well
                                          > glued plywood used for foundation forms and semi trailer beds.
                                          Realy
                                          > tough stuff and won't need painted just edge sealed.
                                          >
                                          > Jon
                                        • Giuliano Girometta
                                          Hi John, Sorry for my lack of knowledge, I was not aware that there is also such type of HDO. The only one I was aware so far was the one with a non stick
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jul 28, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi John,
                                            Sorry for my lack of knowledge, I was not aware that there is also such type of HDO. The only one I was aware so far was the one with a non stick coating commonly used for concrete forms.
                                             
                                            Giuliano

                                            --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:

                                            From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                                            Subject: [bolger] Re: Polyester resin questions
                                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 4:36 AM






                                            HDO is not treated when new contractors that use it for cement forms
                                            treat it them selfs normaly with diesal oil. New it has a thicker
                                            harder smoth overlay used commenly for 18 wheel trailer beds. To
                                            paint it it needs sanded to get some bite but would not need epoxy or
                                            poly coating to last 20 years as sides on a horse trailer.

                                            Jon

                                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@... > wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Be carefull with the HDO made for forms, is not the same thing as
                                            MDO. The stuff made for forms is treated with a releasing agent that
                                            prevent concrete and other stuff poured into to stick to the surface.
                                            Therefore one day all the job may come apart.
                                            >  
                                            > Giuliano
                                            >
                                            > --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@.. .> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@.. .>
                                            > Subject: [bolger] Re: Polyester resin questions
                                            > To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
                                            > Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 7:54 AM
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Rather then going through all that why not just use HDO it is a
                                            well
                                            > glued plywood used for foundation forms and semi trailer beds.
                                            Realy
                                            > tough stuff and won't need painted just edge sealed.
                                            >
                                            > Jon


















                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                            It is non stick from the standpoint it is not enbosed and smoth as well as more glue to make it harder. Releas agents from old oil to what ever are sprayed on
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jul 28, 2008
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                                              It is non stick from the standpoint it is not enbosed and smoth as well
                                              as more glue to make it harder. Releas agents from old oil to what ever
                                              are sprayed on before pouring cement. Lack of working knowlage is what
                                              we are here for filling in. Was a time I didn't want the knowlage when
                                              it comes to the hard work that goes with it so I changed jobs.

                                              Jon

                                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hi John,
                                              > Sorry for my lack of knowledge, I was not aware that there is also
                                              such type of HDO. The only one I was aware so far was the one with a
                                              non stick coating commonly used for concrete forms.
                                              >  
                                              > Giuliano
                                            • David
                                              Jon, I too am confused. Were you suggesting HDO... or MDO? While there s lots of boats been built with MDO, I ve never heard of one being built with HDO. What
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jul 30, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Jon,

                                                I too am confused. Were you suggesting HDO... or MDO? While there's
                                                lots of boats been built with MDO, I've never heard of one being built
                                                with HDO. What did you have in mind?

                                                Is Cleopatra's Barge done yet<G>?

                                                Cheers,
                                                David G

                                                "If there are no stupid questions, what kind of questions do stupid
                                                people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions?" -- Scott
                                                Adams

                                                ***********

                                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hi John,
                                                > Sorry for my lack of knowledge, I was not aware that there is also
                                                such type of HDO. The only one I was aware so far was the one with a
                                                non stick coating commonly used for concrete forms.
                                                >
                                                > Giuliano
                                                >
                                                > --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
                                                > Subject: [bolger] Re: Polyester resin questions
                                                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 4:36 AM
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > HDO is not treated when new contractors that use it for cement forms
                                                > treat it them selfs normaly with diesal oil. New it has a thicker
                                                > harder smoth overlay used commenly for 18 wheel trailer beds. To
                                                > paint it it needs sanded to get some bite but would not need epoxy or
                                                > poly coating to last 20 years as sides on a horse trailer.
                                                >
                                                > Jon
                                                >
                                                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@ > wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Be carefull with the HDO made for forms, is not the same thing as
                                                > MDO. The stuff made for forms is treated with a releasing agent that
                                                > prevent concrete and other stuff poured into to stick to the surface.
                                                > Therefore one day all the job may come apart.
                                                > >
                                                > > Giuliano
                                                > >
                                                > > --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@ .> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@ .>
                                                > > Subject: [bolger] Re: Polyester resin questions
                                                > > To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
                                                > > Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 7:54 AM
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Rather then going through all that why not just use HDO it is a
                                                > well
                                                > > glued plywood used for foundation forms and semi trailer beds.
                                                > Realy
                                                > > tough stuff and won't need painted just edge sealed.
                                                > >
                                                > > Jon
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                              • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                                You should know by now just because it is a boat sight if I am involved it may not have to do with boats. It started with asking about useing MDO with
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jul 30, 2008
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                                                  You should know by now just because it is a boat sight if I am involved
                                                  it may not have to do with boats. It started with asking about useing
                                                  MDO with polyester for sides on a horse trailer. I thought all that
                                                  beer sampeling was to kill the slow brain cells LOL

                                                  Jon

                                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Jon,
                                                  >
                                                  > I too am confused. Were you suggesting HDO... or MDO? While there's
                                                  > lots of boats been built with MDO, I've never heard of one being built
                                                  > with HDO. What did you have in mind?
                                                  >
                                                  > Is Cleopatra's Barge done yet<G>?
                                                  >
                                                  > Cheers,
                                                  > David G
                                                  >
                                                  > "If there are no stupid questions, what kind of questions do stupid
                                                  > people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions?" -- Scott
                                                  > Adams
                                                • David
                                                  Hey you Ol Coot - Beer? I don t remember drinking any beer? Maybe all the slow brain cells have already expired, and now the rest are being nibbled away?!?!
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jul 31, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Hey you Ol' Coot -

                                                    Beer? I don't remember drinking any beer? Maybe all the slow brain
                                                    cells have already expired, and now the rest are being nibbled
                                                    away?!?! Anyway, I do remember you didn't answer the question. Were
                                                    you really recommending HDO, or was it a typo, and you really meant
                                                    MDO? If HDO, tell me more. How does the joinery work? Adhesives? Etc.

                                                    OK, you also didn't answer if the Queen's barge is done yet, so I
                                                    guess it's a case of "We don't want to discuss it" <G> How 'bout that
                                                    purty little rocket you're restoring?

                                                    Cheers,
                                                    David G.

                                                    "May the good Lord take a liking to you... just not too soon"

                                                    ************

                                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > You should know by now just because it is a boat sight if I am involved
                                                    > it may not have to do with boats. It started with asking about useing
                                                    > MDO with polyester for sides on a horse trailer. I thought all that
                                                    > beer sampeling was to kill the slow brain cells LOL
                                                    >
                                                    > Jon
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Jon,
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I too am confused. Were you suggesting HDO... or MDO? While there's
                                                    > > lots of boats been built with MDO, I've never heard of one being built
                                                    > > with HDO. What did you have in mind?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Is Cleopatra's Barge done yet<G>?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Cheers,
                                                    > > David G
                                                    > >
                                                    > > "If there are no stupid questions, what kind of questions do stupid
                                                    > > people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions?" -- Scott
                                                    > > Adams
                                                    >
                                                  • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                                    I will try to make it simple for you also old coot. HDo not MDO for horse traler. MDO only for boat building. What you call Queens barge is what I call T.S.
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Jul 31, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      I will try to make it simple for you also old coot. HDo not MDO for
                                                      horse traler. MDO only for boat building. What you call Queens barge is
                                                      what I call T.S. Neverland (Tinks Ship) the shop is geting a new roof
                                                      to stand up to clobal cooling. The lightning is getting there slowly.
                                                      Now tell us about that PDR you have a big sail for and have been
                                                      working on how many years.

                                                      Jon

                                                      Sorry folks we be on the other sides of the Columbia from each other
                                                      and are both slow at times.LOL

                                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Hey you Ol' Coot -
                                                      >
                                                      > Beer? I don't remember drinking any beer? Maybe all the slow brain
                                                      > cells have already expired, and now the rest are being nibbled
                                                      > away?!?! Anyway, I do remember you didn't answer the question. Were
                                                      > you really recommending HDO, or was it a typo, and you really meant
                                                      > MDO? If HDO, tell me more. How does the joinery work? Adhesives? Etc.
                                                      >
                                                      > OK, you also didn't answer if the Queen's barge is done yet, so I
                                                      > guess it's a case of "We don't want to discuss it" <G> How 'bout that
                                                      > purty little rocket you're restoring?
                                                      >
                                                      > Cheers,
                                                      > David G.
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