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Green boats gather way

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  • graeme19121984
    PB&F report some movement in the latest MAIB. More power to the PB&F collective arm. At the least they re trying, and to overcome the surrounding inertia and
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 3 4:31 AM
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      PB&F report some movement in the latest MAIB. More power to the PB&F
      collective arm. At the least they're trying, and to overcome the
      surrounding inertia and get a bit of way on, as it seems they have,
      is likely more trying for them than producing a new boat design.

      PB&F mention the impact of fuel costs: "...$120 per barrel of oil
      economics..." "..."greening" of the fleet, primarily to survive the
      oil price jump from $20 to $120..."

      --That's past, it's $127 today... $200 by year end... Somewhere again
      from 5 to 10 times higher in 5 years! The increasing number of people
      mobile economically and moving into the first-world's 32-times-third-
      world consumption figure will near see that alone.

      The letter quoted from the Conservation Law Foundation said in the
      1980's "climate change was not even a topic of speculation." -
      Lawyers. Not so! There was much research and more speculation. This
      was one of the emergent focal areas in agronomy and plant GMO
      research, for example, increasing from the early 80's at least. Did
      Rio and then Kyoto at the turn of the 90's emerge from nowhere??
      Those asleep, eyes closed, distracted, or wilfully blind then can't
      spin it different now.

      Gloucester sewerage primary treated only. The only one in the state.
      And dumped off the breakwater. A contemporary fact that somehow
      amazed me - I pictured Gloucester different - had merchant skippers
      describe it to me - lucky there's big tides, eh. -- Whew! I can
      understand why the voters pushed a new broom through that city
      administration. This fact alone substantiates PB&F's attributing much
      of the fishing and port decline and stagnation to the previous
      incumbents.

      I wonder if PB&F have some advanced sail powered green fishing boat
      designs up their sleeves, or if ultimately it will be back to the
      future? Reinvigoration of their local and mostly wooden boat building
      industry, per their plan, at least would see a head start when fuel
      cost and carbon tax really start to bite.

      I post my comment on their latest here as a much greener alternative
      to PB&F's request for snail mail feedback.

      Graeme
    • Fred Schumacher
      Too much of the discussion on conversion of transportation to a post-petroleum future is focused on private autos, but that problem is trivial compared to
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 5 12:20 PM
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        Too much of the discussion on conversion of transportation to a post-petroleum future is focused on private autos, but that problem is trivial compared to what's needed for the moving of cargo. Cars are lightly loaded vehicles that could switch to stored electricity for their energy source, but that is not possible for industrial applications such as over-the-road trucking, agriculture, construction, air travel and marine applications.

        Vaclav Smil, destinguished professor of energy studies at the University of Manitoba, has written extensively on the role of energy in nature and society. For Smil, the diesel engine is one of the three greatest inventions of modern society, and without it commerce would grind to a halt. We can run cars on batteries but we can't power open ocean fishing boats that way. The low energy storage density of batteries would eliminate any cargo carrying capacity.

        So PB & F are on the right track in reducing power demand and fuel consumption in commercial water craft. As portable liquid fuels become scarce, we will need ships that use as little as possible.

        fred schumacher

        On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 6:31 AM, graeme19121984 <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
        >
        > PB&F report some movement in the latest MAIB. More power to the PB&F
        > collective arm. At the least they're trying, and to overcome the
        > surrounding inertia and get a bit of way on, as it seems they have,
        > is likely more trying for them than producing a new boat design.
        >
        > PB&F mention the impact of fuel costs: "...$120 per barrel of oil
        > economics..." "..."greening" of the fleet, primarily to survive the
        > oil price jump from $20 to $120..."
        >
        > --That's past, it's $127 today... $200 by year end... Somewhere again
        > from 5 to 10 times higher in 5 years! The increasing number of people
        > mobile economically and moving into the first-world's 32-times-third-
        > world consumption figure will near see that alone.
        >
        > The letter quoted from the Conservation Law Foundation said in the
        > 1980's "climate change was not even a topic of speculation." -
        > Lawyers. Not so! There was much research and more speculation. This
        > was one of the emergent focal areas in agronomy and plant GMO
        > research, for example, increasing from the early 80's at least. Did
        > Rio and then Kyoto at the turn of the 90's emerge from nowhere??
        > Those asleep, eyes closed, distracted, or wilfully blind then can't
        > spin it different now.
        >
        > Gloucester sewerage primary treated only. The only one in the state.
        > And dumped off the breakwater. A contemporary fact that somehow
        > amazed me - I pictured Gloucester different - had merchant skippers
        > describe it to me - lucky there's big tides, eh. -- Whew! I can
        > understand why the voters pushed a new broom through that city
        > administration. This fact alone substantiates PB&F's attributing much
        > of the fishing and port decline and stagnation to the previous
        > incumbents.
        >
        > I wonder if PB&F have some advanced sail powered green fishing boat
        > designs up their sleeves, or if ultimately it will be back to the
        > future? Reinvigoration of their local and mostly wooden boat building
        > industry, per their plan, at least would see a head start when fuel
        > cost and carbon tax really start to bite.
        >
        > I post my comment on their latest here as a much greener alternative
        > to PB&F's request for snail mail feedback.
        >
        > Graeme
        >
        >
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... Certainly, plus, PB&F have mentioned that some return to air powered sails in fishing fleets makes sense. I am guessing that this will take the form of
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 5 1:36 PM
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          > So PB & F are on the right track in reducing power demand and fuel
          > consumption in commercial water craft. As portable liquid fuels become
          > scarce, we will need ships that use as little as possible.

          Certainly, plus, PB&F have mentioned that some return to air powered
          sails in fishing fleets makes sense. I am guessing that this will
          take the form of simple standing lug rigs, for use when the winds are
          right, to save fuel. With the longer, more streamlined shapes of the
          PB&F new efficient fishing boats, those hulls should be able to reach
          hull speed under wind power alone in many wind circumstances.
        • nq2u2
          Hummmm... I don t suppose you are related to E.F. Schumacher, of Small Is Beautiful fame. A very interesting book, and apropos to the ideas you ve
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 6 1:57 PM
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            Hummmm...

            I don't suppose you are related to E.F. Schumacher, of "Small Is
            Beautiful" fame. A very interesting book, and apropos to the ideas
            you've mentioned.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_is_Beautiful

            John Hess

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Schumacher" <fredschum@...> wrote:
            >
            > Too much of the discussion on conversion of transportation to a
            post-petroleum future is focused on private autos, but that problem is
            trivial compared to what's needed for the moving of cargo. Cars are
            lightly loaded vehicles that could switch to stored electricity for
            their energy source, but that is not possible for industrial
            applications such as over-the-road trucking, agriculture,
            construction, air travel and marine applications.
            >
            > Vaclav Smil, destinguished professor of energy studies at the
            University of Manitoba, has written extensively on the role of energy
            in nature and society. For Smil, the diesel engine is one of the three
            greatest inventions of modern society, and without it commerce would
            grind to a halt. We can run cars on batteries but we can't power open
            ocean fishing boats that way. The low energy storage density of
            batteries would eliminate any cargo carrying capacity.
            >
            > So PB & F are on the right track in reducing power demand and fuel
            consumption in commercial water craft. As portable liquid fuels
            become scarce, we will need ships that use as little as possible.
            >
            > fred schumacher
            >
          • Fred Schumacher
            John, No, I m not related to E.F. Schumacher, but we have almost the same names, reversed. He s Ernst Friedrich and I m Friedrich Erwin. I ve read his books
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 7 6:07 AM
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              John,

              No, I'm not related to E.F. Schumacher, but we have almost the same
              names, reversed. He's Ernst Friedrich and I'm Friedrich Erwin. I've
              read his books and was strongly influenced by him when I was young.
              Especially his book "Good Work" where he talks about a ditch digger
              being able to contemplate God while working while a secretary
              couldn't.

              I could relate to that perfectly, since I was a farmer, and all those
              hours spent alone on a tractor doing repetitive actions leaves your
              mind free for thinking. Your work is all muscle memory and your mind
              hungers for stimulation. I did my best thinking on the tractor or
              walking fields pulling off-plants.

              E.F. Schumacher's ideas on appropriate technology, thinking outside
              the box, and simplicity are especially important today. We tend to get
              lost in the popcorn of life and lose track of the important stuff. The
              auto industry, especially, is caught in a feedback loop and is
              crippled by groupthink. They've come to depend on complexity as a
              problem solving tool, to lesser and lesser effect.

              To me, Phil Bolger is a paragon of E.F. Schumacher style thinking. He
              is the master of what I call the "80% Solution." Many functions in
              nature follow a logistic (s-shaped) curve. If you plot input effort
              against output results, very often an s-curve will result. The place
              you want to be is on the shoulder of the curve, the 80% point, that
              will give you the greatest return for the least input. That's the
              sweet spot, and Bolger hits it like clock work. In boat design, there
              is nobody who gets more performance and functionality out of fewer
              curves than Bolger. Look at Tortoise. It has only one curve. There is
              much to be learned, not just in boats, by studying Bolger's designs.
              He is a National Treasure.

              Fred

              On 6/6/08, nq2u2 <JohnHess@...> wrote:
              > Hummmm...
              >
              > I don't suppose you are related to E.F. Schumacher, of "Small Is
              > Beautiful" fame. A very interesting book, and apropos to the ideas
              > you've mentioned.
              >
              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_is_Beautiful
              >
              > John Hess
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