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Special Olympics Bateau (was Re:Naval Jelly isometric)

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  • CSC
    ... Bateau just means boat in French. Some boats in the Chesapeake region are called bateaus and they typically have deadrise. But some boats from
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 28, 2008
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      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
      > Sorry folks this last e-mail hardly makes sense I got in a big hurry
      > writing, I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?
      > Doug

      Bateau just means "boat" in French. Some boats in the Chesapeake region
      are called "bateaus" and they typically have deadrise. But some boats
      from Louisiana are "bateaus" and they are flat-bottomed.

      Bateau is not specific to a hull design, as, say, a "skipjack"
      or "sharpie" would be.

      Discussion of rigs earlier should be a tip-off, all boat design names,
      rig or hull, are generally "fuzzy sets" unless commercially controlled
      or part of a one-design group. There are few "definitive" definitions.
    • John and Kathy Trussell
      Could be wrong, but bateau, like barbecue, covers an astonishing array of things. In this case, I think PCB was probably thinking of a lumberman s bateau
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 28, 2008
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        Could be wrong, but bateau, like barbecue, covers an astonishing array of things. In this case, I think PCB was probably thinking of a 'lumberman's bateau" which was a flat bottomed, double ended boat with a strong sheer. They were used to navigate rivers filled with rapids and were functional ancesters of all kinds of whitewater rowing boats. Howard Chapelle devotes 5 pages of American Small Sailing Craft to Bateaux, including line drawings for a 17'8"bateau which would be very easy yo reproduce in plywood.

        JohnT
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: CSC
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:25 PM
        Subject: [bolger] Special Olympics Bateau (was Re:Naval Jelly isometric)


        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
        > Sorry folks this last e-mail hardly makes sense I got in a big hurry
        > writing, I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?
        > Doug

        Bateau just means "boat" in French. Some boats in the Chesapeake region
        are called "bateaus" and they typically have deadrise. But some boats
        from Louisiana are "bateaus" and they are flat-bottomed.

        Bateau is not specific to a hull design, as, say, a "skipjack"
        or "sharpie" would be.

        Discussion of rigs earlier should be a tip-off, all boat design names,
        rig or hull, are generally "fuzzy sets" unless commercially controlled
        or part of a one-design group. There are few "definitive" definitions.






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      • Douglas Pollard
        OK That sheds some light on the subject In Virginia there only three hull types here on the bay where most folks are concernd. sharpies, log canoes and
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 28, 2008
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          OK That sheds some light on the subject In Virginia there only three
          hull types here on the bay where most folks are concernd. sharpies, log
          canoes and Bateaus. So they are all bateaus. Thanks,
          Doug


          CSC wrote:
          >
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
          > > Sorry folks this last e-mail hardly makes sense I got in a big hurry
          > > writing, I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?
          > > Doug
          >
          > Bateau just means "boat" in French. Some boats in the Chesapeake region
          > are called "bateaus" and they typically have deadrise. But some boats
          > from Louisiana are "bateaus" and they are flat-bottomed.
          >
          > Bateau is not specific to a hull design, as, say, a "skipjack"
          > or "sharpie" would be.
          >
          > Discussion of rigs earlier should be a tip-off, all boat design names,
          > rig or hull, are generally "fuzzy sets" unless commercially controlled
          > or part of a one-design group. There are few "definitive" definitions.
          >
          >
        • Bob Johnson
          ... The use of the word batteau (bateau, batto, battoe, etc) for the Chesapeake skipjack is the exception rather than the other way around. That is, most of
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 28, 2008
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            On Monday, April 28, 2008, at 06:01 PM, Doug wrote:

            > I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?


            The use of the word batteau (bateau, batto, battoe, etc) for the
            Chesapeake skipjack is the exception rather than the other way around.
            That is, most of the time the term is used in the history of American
            small craft it has been in reference to a flat bottomed, usually double
            ended craft. For a good historical back ground, read the first couple
            of chapters in Chapelle's _American Small Sailing Craft_ and also see
            John Gardner's _The Dory Book_.

            Basically, batteau is just a French word for boat, and it's use in this
            country goes right back to the earliest European occupation with the
            French fur traders, the voyageurs, etc. Batteaus were built to use in
            place of the more fragile bark canoes, and these were flat bottomed,
            double enders. Some were as long as 50 feet or more. They came to be
            used by both the French and then the English through out the waterways
            of the Northeast and even down the Ohio and the Mississippi. Both
            sides made great use of them in the French and Indian war. John
            Gardner puts forth the thesis that it was the large number of
            boatbuilders employed building the batteaus for both sides, who, upon
            returning home after the war, bringing the style of construction and
            hull form with them, gave rise to the rapid proliferation and
            development of the dory in America.

            The term has been used in various times and places through out the
            history of American small craft to refer to several types of craft.
            Along the Ohio and the Mississippi waterways, it was not uncommon for
            any flat bottomed boat or skiff, whether pointy bowed or what we would
            now call a John Boat, to be called a batteau, by some old time
            rivermen. Down in the swamps of the lower Mississippi delta it was
            used to refer to a dugout, and the plank descendant, the pirogue.
            Which, by the way, was just another word, this time from the Indies,
            meaning boat.

            Bob
          • Mark Albanese
            Bruce, Thanks for the fine isos and for sending me the scan. That s one sleek little boat. I thought fair use might include posting to Bolger cartoons. w/
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 28, 2008
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              Bruce,

              Thanks for the fine isos and for sending me the scan. That's one
              sleek little boat.

              I thought fair use might include posting to Bolger cartoons.
              w/ fingers crossed, http://tinyurl.com/5nntvy

              That catalog is a rare item. ( I'm saving mine to supplement a meager
              Social Security someday. )
              Anyone could build the boat from what's shown, once they worked out
              the scale. Since it was not published otherwise, the fifty would be due.


              Mark




              On Apr 28, 2008, at 10:18 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

              > Good call, I had totally forgotten about the Special Olympics Bateau.
              >
              > Isometric here:
              >
              > http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/
              >
              > And, I agree that the only place this appeared is in that old Common
              > Sense Designs catalog.
              >
              >
            • Mark Albanese
              For a laugh, flip though the first few pages of these google images for the many types of boat called bateau. http://tinyurl.com/5hlq47 I don t find Bolger s
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 29, 2008
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                For a laugh, flip though the first few pages of these google images
                for the many types of boat called bateau.
                http://tinyurl.com/5hlq47

                I don't find Bolger's there. Nor through the Philadelphia SO.
                Mark

                On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:36 PM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

                > OK That sheds some light on the subject In Virginia there only
                > three
                > hull types here on the bay where most folks are concernd. sharpies,
                > log
                > canoes and Bateaus. So they are all bateaus. Thanks,
                > Doug
                >
              • Christopher C. Wetherill
                When I was a kid we ad a 40 Chesapeake crabber that was cross-planked like a skipjack with about 15deg of deadrise. I came to understand that this can be
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 29, 2008
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                  When I was a kid we ad a 40' Chesapeake crabber that was cross-planked
                  like a skipjack with about 15deg of deadrise. I came to understand
                  that this can be referred to as a "Chesapeake Bay Deadrise" hull. My
                  parents had it modified on the Chester River by a man named Stanley
                  vanSandt. During that time, he also built a small skiff for his own
                  use. It was about 20' long, cross planked, and had no keel, thus no
                  deadrise. He called it a Bateau.

                  The other interesting variant was the yawl boat. Working skipjacks were
                  prohibited engines so that they could not dredge the oyster beds.
                  Instead they carried a boat in davits that was roughly as long as the
                  width of the transom and as wide and deep as needed to float a large
                  engine and prop. This was lashed to the transom and used for the motive
                  power when needed.

                  V/R
                  Chris

                  Bob Johnson wrote:
                  > On Monday, April 28, 2008, at 06:01 PM, Doug wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >> I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > The use of the word batteau (bateau, batto, battoe, etc) for the
                  > Chesapeake skipjack is the exception rather than the other way around.
                  > That is, most of the time the term is used in the history of American
                  > small craft it has been in reference to a flat bottomed, usually double
                  > ended craft. For a good historical back ground, read the first couple
                  > of chapters in Chapelle's _American Small Sailing Craft_ and also see
                  > John Gardner's _The Dory Book_.
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mike Bevington
                  One more Bolger bateau is in SBJ #49 June/July 86 Cartoon #25 Sliding-Seat Bateau This one is a19 4 x 4 1 long surf dory or light logging bateau taking
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 29, 2008
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                    One more Bolger bateau is in SBJ #49 June/July 86 Cartoon #25
                    "Sliding-Seat Bateau"

                    This one is a19'4" x 4'1" "long surf dory or light logging bateau"
                    taking one or two Martin Oarmaster units.

                    Bruce Hallman wrote:
                    > Good call, I had totally forgotten about the Special Olympics Bateau.
                    >
                    > Isometric here:
                    >
                    > http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/
                    >
                    > And, I agree that the only place this appeared is in that old Common
                    > Sense Designs catalog.
                    >
                    > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Mark Albanese <marka@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> Unless built in two sections, it's also a bit of a problem for many
                    >> to store.
                    >> For a somewhat smaller version, there's the Special Olympics Bateau:
                    >>
                    >> 25' 6" x 4' 10"
                    >> Capacity 4 adults
                    >> 6 1/2' oars
                    >> 7 sheets 1/2" ply, though could be built much lighter
                    >>
                    >> It's _really_ hard to find a pic of one of those.
                    >> Bruce? did you scan that page from the Common Sense Design Catalog? I
                    >> can't find any of it in your Flikr or Webshots stuff.
                    >>
                    >> The basic idea is in at least four sizes: Yellow Leaf, 15'; the pedal
                    >> boat, Madeline, 19'; Bateau, 25'; Naval Jelly, 31'.
                    >> Mark
                    >>
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
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