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Re: [bolger] Re: Houseboat Concept 41ft x 11 ft

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  • Bruce Hallman
    ... Part of what is fun about doing Free!Ship renderings of the Bolger designs, is that in the process of working out the 3D shape from the 2D diagrams, you
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 28, 2008
      > Although steel prices this moment are very high, I'd be tempted to
      > have the basic hull rendered in steel, and professionally welded, then
      > finish her/it (is a barge a she?) out in wood.

      Part of what is fun about doing Free!Ship renderings of the Bolger
      designs, is that in the process of working out the 3D shape from the
      2D diagrams, you often get insight into the PCB thought process. For
      instance, remarkably often, bulkheads, and other pieces are put right
      on "whole foot" station lines. (In otherwords, I am guessing he works
      with a scale in hand, or more likely he works out the layouts with
      tracing paper over a '1 foot scale grid')

      Another common thing with Bolger designs is that he is constantly
      working out most efficient use of materials. In the case of this
      housebarge it is shaped kind of like a giant Diablo, but with the keel
      panel and bilge panels made of full 4 foot width strips of plywood,
      and the side panels are 4 foot, trimmed a bit to give the smooth sweep
      to the sheerline. In short, the planking of this boat is done with 4
      foot wide planks. (with almost no sawing!) I think with a little
      fore though, it also could be built entirely in an upright position,
      without a flip, by tipping it side to side from one bilge strake to
      the other.
    • Douglas Pollard
      I would also concider aluminum. It may be high priced by the pound but you will use less of although it will likely be more costly but maybe not that much.
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 28, 2008
        I would also concider aluminum. It may be high priced by the pound
        but you will use less of although it will likely be more costly but
        maybe not that much. The other big thing is if you have built any
        wooden boats you already have all the tools you need to build in
        aluminum. With a table saw , router, skill saw and maybe an electric
        wood plane you can build any boat in aluminum that you can build in
        plywood with maybe a few exceptions. Have'nt really thought that out.
        An aluminum boat will likely sell for a heck of a lot more after 20
        years than a steel one. The average surveyer may not want to survey
        an old steel boat but even though they may know less about aluminum
        they seem to trust it more.
        The only real down side I know of in aluminum is the problem of
        bottom paint with the restrictions on tributal tine you may have to be
        creative there.
        If I were to build in aluminum I would by a cheap Tig welder and
        tack it all together myself with a little practice anyone can do
        that. Then the pro welder will weld right over your tacks. A boat that
        size I would likely plate in 1/4 inch on the bottom and 3/16 on above
        the water line.
        This heavy plating will make getting fair lines much easier and
        could be backed up with pipe stringers which a fairly cheap.
        The money saved on building yourself will will likelt pay the
        difference in cost of aluminum over steel ten times over.
        Of course you can build yourself in steel but that is much less
        familiar for a woodworker.
        Doug


        Bruce Hallman wrote:
        >
        > > Although steel prices this moment are very high, I'd be tempted to
        > > have the basic hull rendered in steel, and professionally welded, then
        > > finish her/it (is a barge a she?) out in wood.
        >
        > Part of what is fun about doing Free!Ship renderings of the Bolger
        > designs, is that in the process of working out the 3D shape from the
        > 2D diagrams, you often get insight into the PCB thought process. For
        > instance, remarkably often, bulkheads, and other pieces are put right
        > on "whole foot" station lines. (In otherwords, I am guessing he works
        > with a scale in hand, or more likely he works out the layouts with
        > tracing paper over a '1 foot scale grid')
        >
        > Another common thing with Bolger designs is that he is constantly
        > working out most efficient use of materials. In the case of this
        > housebarge it is shaped kind of like a giant Diablo, but with the keel
        > panel and bilge panels made of full 4 foot width strips of plywood,
        > and the side panels are 4 foot, trimmed a bit to give the smooth sweep
        > to the sheerline. In short, the planking of this boat is done with 4
        > foot wide planks. (with almost no sawing!) I think with a little
        > fore though, it also could be built entirely in an upright position,
        > without a flip, by tipping it side to side from one bilge strake to
        > the other.
        >
        >
      • Douglas Pollard
        One more advantage in aluminum is that it does not have to be protected on the inside at all. Steel needs to be probably sand blasted inside and out and some
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 28, 2008
          One more advantage in aluminum is that it does not have to be protected
          on the inside at all. Steel needs to be probably sand blasted inside and
          out and some kind of coating applied. Steel boats usually rust out from
          the inside.
          Doug

          Douglas Pollard wrote:
          >
          > I would also concider aluminum. It may be high priced by the pound
          > but you will use less of although it will likely be more costly but
          > maybe not that much. The other big thing is if you have built any
          > wooden boats you already have all the tools you need to build in
          > aluminum. With a table saw , router, skill saw and maybe an electric
          > wood plane you can build any boat in aluminum that you can build in
          > plywood with maybe a few exceptions. Have'nt really thought that out.
          > An aluminum boat will likely sell for a heck of a lot more after 20
          > years than a steel one. The average surveyer may not want to survey
          > an old steel boat but even though they may know less about aluminum
          > they seem to trust it more.
          > The only real down side I know of in aluminum is the problem of
          > bottom paint with the restrictions on tributal tine you may have to be
          > creative there.
          > If I were to build in aluminum I would by a cheap Tig welder and
          > tack it all together myself with a little practice anyone can do
          > that. Then the pro welder will weld right over your tacks. A boat that
          > size I would likely plate in 1/4 inch on the bottom and 3/16 on above
          > the water line.
          > This heavy plating will make getting fair lines much easier and
          > could be backed up with pipe stringers which a fairly cheap.
          > The money saved on building yourself will will likelt pay the
          > difference in cost of aluminum over steel ten times over.
          > Of course you can build yourself in steel but that is much less
          > familiar for a woodworker.
          > Doug
          >
          > Bruce Hallman wrote:
          > >
          > > > Although steel prices this moment are very high, I'd be tempted to
          > > > have the basic hull rendered in steel, and professionally welded, then
          > > > finish her/it (is a barge a she?) out in wood.
          > >
          > > Part of what is fun about doing Free!Ship renderings of the Bolger
          > > designs, is that in the process of working out the 3D shape from the
          > > 2D diagrams, you often get insight into the PCB thought process. For
          > > instance, remarkably often, bulkheads, and other pieces are put right
          > > on "whole foot" station lines. (In otherwords, I am guessing he works
          > > with a scale in hand, or more likely he works out the layouts with
          > > tracing paper over a '1 foot scale grid')
          > >
          > > Another common thing with Bolger designs is that he is constantly
          > > working out most efficient use of materials. In the case of this
          > > housebarge it is shaped kind of like a giant Diablo, but with the keel
          > > panel and bilge panels made of full 4 foot width strips of plywood,
          > > and the side panels are 4 foot, trimmed a bit to give the smooth sweep
          > > to the sheerline. In short, the planking of this boat is done with 4
          > > foot wide planks. (with almost no sawing!) I think with a little
          > > fore though, it also could be built entirely in an upright position,
          > > without a flip, by tipping it side to side from one bilge strake to
          > > the other.
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
        • Howard Stephenson
          In tidal waters the same could probably be done to remove marine growth, rather than slipping her. What s the word -- careening? Howard
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 28, 2008
            In tidal waters the same could probably be done to remove marine
            growth, rather than slipping her. What's the word -- careening?

            Howard

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
            >I think with a little
            > fore though, it also could be built entirely in an upright position,
            > without a flip, by tipping it side to side from one bilge strake to
            > the other.
            >
          • Bruce Hallman
            On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Howard Stephenson ... Yes, the PCB write up says the same. I think the easiest way to build it would be to build the center
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 28, 2008
              On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Howard Stephenson
              <howardstephenson@...> wrote:
              >
              > In tidal waters the same could probably be done to remove marine
              > growth, rather than slipping her. What's the word -- careening?
              >
              >
              > Howard

              Yes, the PCB write up says the same.

              I think the easiest way to build it would be to build the center keel
              strake upside down, probably PCB would specifiy 1 1/2" laminated from
              three courses of 1/2" plywood. Put on a thick layer of glass and
              epoxy, and then flip the keel piece. Then jack the keel piece to the
              right curve, and install the frames. To that, lift up the bilge
              panels (which also were glassed and epoxied before a flip) Anybody's
              guess as PCB's spec, but perhaps 1" thick? Or 1/2" would probably
              work fine for the bilge panels and all the other plywood.
            • Giuliano Girometta
              You may also consider to use some small sections of aluminum angle bars or small mending plates made off the same aluminum and bent to the desired angle and
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 28, 2008
                You may also consider to use some small sections of aluminum angle bars or small mending plates made off the same aluminum and bent to the desired angle and fastened with aluminum pop rivets. Then the welder can start welding and as he approaches the brackets, just drill off the rivets, remove the brackets and keep going with the welding.
                You may also have a fabrication shop to bend some strips of aluminum of the same angle of the chines and attach the planking to the cines with pop rivets and then the welder can fill the middle of the joint on the outside and the two edges on the inside. this will also provide for a reinforced chine. Just keep the moulded angle to a minimum so there will be no voids in between the planking and the angle strip.(To prevent corrosion from the inside out) Probably 5/8" x 5/8" will be more than enough.
                With this procedure you will be also able to make some adjustment if needed for a proper fairing (just drill out the rivet, move slightly till is right and pop another rivet.

                Please note, this one is just an idea that came into my mind while I was reading your post and not an experienced construction method.

                One think I will research before starting a similar project is the feasibility to pre assemble all the hull and then start welding. There may be some problems caused by the expansion and contraction of the plates during the welding with consequent warping and distortions that may not occour while a hull is welded step by step and the expansion and contraction of the metal have a place to move to.

                Giuliano

                Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
                I would also concider aluminum. It may be high priced by the pound
                but you will use less of although it will likely be more costly but
                maybe not that much. The other big thing is if you have built any
                wooden boats you already have all the tools you need to build in
                aluminum. With a table saw , router, skill saw and maybe an electric
                wood plane you can build any boat in aluminum that you can build in
                plywood with maybe a few exceptions. Have'nt really thought that out.
                An aluminum boat will likely sell for a heck of a lot more after 20
                years than a steel one. The average surveyer may not want to survey
                an old steel boat but even though they may know less about aluminum
                they seem to trust it more.
                The only real down side I know of in aluminum is the problem of
                bottom paint with the restrictions on tributal tine you may have to be
                creative there.
                If I were to build in aluminum I would by a cheap Tig welder and
                tack it all together myself with a little practice anyone can do
                that. Then the pro welder will weld right over your tacks. A boat that
                size I would likely plate in 1/4 inch on the bottom and 3/16 on above
                the water line.
                This heavy plating will make getting fair lines much easier and
                could be backed up with pipe stringers which a fairly cheap.
                The money saved on building yourself will will likelt pay the
                difference in cost of aluminum over steel ten times over.
                Of course you can build yourself in steel but that is much less
                familiar for a woodworker.
                Doug

                Bruce Hallman wrote:
                >
                > > Although steel prices this moment are very high, I'd be tempted to
                > > have the basic hull rendered in steel, and professionally welded, then
                > > finish her/it (is a barge a she?) out in wood.
                >
                > Part of what is fun about doing Free!Ship renderings of the Bolger
                > designs, is that in the process of working out the 3D shape from the
                > 2D diagrams, you often get insight into the PCB thought process. For
                > instance, remarkably often, bulkheads, and other pieces are put right
                > on "whole foot" station lines. (In otherwords, I am guessing he works
                > with a scale in hand, or more likely he works out the layouts with
                > tracing paper over a '1 foot scale grid')
                >
                > Another common thing with Bolger designs is that he is constantly
                > working out most efficient use of materials. In the case of this
                > housebarge it is shaped kind of like a giant Diablo, but with the keel
                > panel and bilge panels made of full 4 foot width strips of plywood,
                > and the side panels are 4 foot, trimmed a bit to give the smooth sweep
                > to the sheerline. In short, the planking of this boat is done with 4
                > foot wide planks. (with almost no sawing!) I think with a little
                > fore though, it also could be built entirely in an upright position,
                > without a flip, by tipping it side to side from one bilge strake to
                > the other.
                >
                >






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              • Kristine Bennett
                I have half looked at the posts about the Housebarge, then I saw the idea of using welded Steel and then welded Aluminum. In years past I worked for two shops
                Message 7 of 20 , Mar 28, 2008
                  I have half looked at the posts about the Housebarge, then I saw the idea of using welded Steel and then welded Aluminum. In years past I worked for two shops that built Aluminum and Steel craft, here in the northwest. Some of the ideas that are being kicked around scare me.

                  I had to pass a USCG weld test before I could do any welding. I know you would be doing it DIY and would likely have done little to no welding of Aluminum. If any of you think you want to build it out of Aluminum take the time to learn to weld the right way, not hit or miss. Welds in aluminum can look great but be very brittle, crack and leak. It's not a good idea to try and teach yourself to weld aluminum. I went to school to learn the right way to weld steel and then moved on to aluminum.

                  What kind of welder are you going to need? A cheap TIG welder is not going to do it. You better plan to spend the money to get a 300 amp AC-DC TIG welder or BIGGER. Then add a water cooled torch and cooler. Then you need to have the Argon and the things to hook that up to the welder. And then you are going to be welding very slowly. Oh and forget welding over head or any other way other then flat.

                  The other way to go is with a wirefeed or MIG ones again your little handyman units are not even going to cut it even for tacking! You will need to look at a 250 to 300 amp unit, then add a push-pull spool unit. You can use a 1lb spool gun but you are always changing spools when you are welding your seams. NOt good seeing how as you are changing them things are cooling. At every stop and start you have a chance of leaks. Thats why a lot of places use a spoolpak with the wire in a 200 lb drum.

                  In short it takes a lot of heat to weld Aluminum, and a fair bit of skill to get things right.

                  OK so lets look at Steel. You can weld steel with a buzz box doing stick welding. Take a couple of classes and you can get good at it. OK you want to weld faster then stick. OK go to a MIG unit you can now get away with a 200 or 250 amp unit. Myself I would use dual shield. it welds hotter then hard wire so you are less likely to have leaks at your stops and starts on your hull plating.

                  To control your rust you have all your steel Wheelabraited and primed with weld through primer. So all the mill scale is gone and its ready for welding and repainting.

                  I know a lot of people think aluminum is the way to go and you don't have to worry about corrosion, WRONG you still have to do corrosion control as well. I have seen aluminum hull plating corroded all the way through. The area what we ended up cutting out and replacing was a 4 foot x 6 foot area and this was in a 32 foot boat. The boat was 5 or 6 years old at the time.

                  Both steel and aluminum have their strong points they also have their weaknesses as well.

                  One other thing when welding steel you can use 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018 for stick welding. I know I have missed a few, but these are the ones you can find most any where. And there are any number of mild-steel welding wire that can be used.

                  But with aluminum you need to use the right filler rod or wire for the grade of aluminum you are using there is no mixing or matching the fillers. I know a few that have, but in the end when corrosion strikes it's like gang busters!

                  Myself I would look at fiberglass and a foam core or steel and epoxy paints. I also don't see anything wrong with a wood-foam-wood hull as well. then sheath it in epoxy and glass. This last style of building has a lot going for it. Namely you have a warmer boat for those of us that live up north.

                  Blessings all
                  Krissie




                  Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@...> wrote: You may also consider to use some small sections of aluminum angle bars or small mending plates made off the same aluminum and bent to the desired angle and fastened with aluminum pop rivets. Then the welder can start welding and as he approaches the brackets, just drill off the rivets, remove the brackets and keep going with the welding.
                  You may also have a fabrication shop to bend some strips of aluminum of the same angle of the chines and attach the planking to the cines with pop rivets and then the welder can fill the middle of the joint on the outside and the two edges on the inside. this will also provide for a reinforced chine. Just keep the moulded angle to a minimum so there will be no voids in between the planking and the angle strip.(To prevent corrosion from the inside out) Probably 5/8" x 5/8" will be more than enough.
                  With this procedure you will be also able to make some adjustment if needed for a proper fairing (just drill out the rivet, move slightly till is right and pop another rivet.

                  Please note, this one is just an idea that came into my mind while I was reading your post and not an experienced construction method.

                  One think I will research before starting a similar project is the feasibility to pre assemble all the hull and then start welding. There may be some problems caused by the expansion and contraction of the plates during the welding with consequent warping and distortions that may not occour while a hull is welded step by step and the expansion and contraction of the metal have a place to move to.

                  Giuliano

                  Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
                  I would also concider aluminum. It may be high priced by the pound
                  but you will use less of although it will likely be more costly but
                  maybe not that much. The other big thing is if you have built any
                  wooden boats you already have all the tools you need to build in
                  aluminum. With a table saw , router, skill saw and maybe an electric
                  wood plane you can build any boat in aluminum that you can build in
                  plywood with maybe a few exceptions. Have'nt really thought that out.
                  An aluminum boat will likely sell for a heck of a lot more after 20
                  years than a steel one. The average surveyer may not want to survey
                  an old steel boat but even though they may know less about aluminum
                  they seem to trust it more.
                  The only real down side I know of in aluminum is the problem of
                  bottom paint with the restrictions on tributal tine you may have to be
                  creative there.
                  If I were to build in aluminum I would by a cheap Tig welder and
                  tack it all together myself with a little practice anyone can do
                  that. Then the pro welder will weld right over your tacks. A boat that
                  size I would likely plate in 1/4 inch on the bottom and 3/16 on above
                  the water line.
                  This heavy plating will make getting fair lines much easier and
                  could be backed up with pipe stringers which a fairly cheap.
                  The money saved on building yourself will will likelt pay the
                  difference in cost of aluminum over steel ten times over.
                  Of course you can build yourself in steel but that is much less
                  familiar for a woodworker.
                  Doug

                  Bruce Hallman wrote:







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                • Christopher C. Wetherill
                  Hear! Hear! Great response. I was pondering something like it, but you said it much better than I could have. That is the advantage of first-hand experience.
                  Message 8 of 20 , Mar 28, 2008
                    Hear! Hear!

                    Great response. I was pondering something like it, but you said it much
                    better than I could have. That is the advantage of first-hand experience.

                    V/R
                    Chris

                    Kristine Bennett wrote:
                    > I have half looked at the posts about the Housebarge, then I saw the idea of using welded Steel and then welded Aluminum. In years past I worked for two shops that built Aluminum and Steel craft, here in the northwest. Some of the ideas that are being kicked around scare me.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Giuliano Girometta
                    Krissie, In my reply to Douglas the core of the discussion was to pre cut, do all the carpentry work and assembly and then to have a qualified professional
                    Message 9 of 20 , Mar 29, 2008
                      Krissie,
                      In my reply to Douglas the core of the discussion was to pre cut, do all the carpentry work and assembly and then to have a qualified professional aluminum welder to do the job.
                      This is why Instead of tacking with a mig as proposed by Douglas, I suggested the idea of the temporary brackets with pop rivets so in that way there are not junky welding spots to go over and the professional welder can weld on all clean joints.
                      I agree with you aluminum is a pain, My Lowe Sea Nimph is only 6 years old and You already can not count the patches of JB-Weld and aluminum epoxy putty any more. The fiberglass 17 years old Glasstron is in the back with all the crappy encapsulated wood roten. This is why from now I will only made my own boats out of wood.

                      Giuliano

                      Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
                      I have half looked at the posts about the Housebarge, then I saw the idea of using welded Steel and then welded Aluminum. In years past I worked for two shops that built Aluminum and Steel craft, here in the northwest. Some of the ideas that are being kicked around scare me.

                      I had to pass a USCG weld test before I could do any welding. I know you would be doing it DIY and would likely have done little to no welding of Aluminum. If any of you think you want to build it out of Aluminum take the time to learn to weld the right way, not hit or miss. Welds in aluminum can look great but be very brittle, crack and leak. It's not a good idea to try and teach yourself to weld aluminum. I went to school to learn the right way to weld steel and then moved on to aluminum.

                      What kind of welder are you going to need? A cheap TIG welder is not going to do it. You better plan to spend the money to get a 300 amp AC-DC TIG welder or BIGGER. Then add a water cooled torch and cooler. Then you need to have the Argon and the things to hook that up to the welder. And then you are going to be welding very slowly. Oh and forget welding over head or any other way other then flat.

                      The other way to go is with a wirefeed or MIG ones again your little handyman units are not even going to cut it even for tacking! You will need to look at a 250 to 300 amp unit, then add a push-pull spool unit. You can use a 1lb spool gun but you are always changing spools when you are welding your seams. NOt good seeing how as you are changing them things are cooling. At every stop and start you have a chance of leaks. Thats why a lot of places use a spoolpak with the wire in a 200 lb drum.

                      In short it takes a lot of heat to weld Aluminum, and a fair bit of skill to get things right.

                      OK so lets look at Steel. You can weld steel with a buzz box doing stick welding. Take a couple of classes and you can get good at it. OK you want to weld faster then stick. OK go to a MIG unit you can now get away with a 200 or 250 amp unit. Myself I would use dual shield. it welds hotter then hard wire so you are less likely to have leaks at your stops and starts on your hull plating.

                      To control your rust you have all your steel Wheelabraited and primed with weld through primer. So all the mill scale is gone and its ready for welding and repainting.

                      I know a lot of people think aluminum is the way to go and you don't have to worry about corrosion, WRONG you still have to do corrosion control as well. I have seen aluminum hull plating corroded all the way through. The area what we ended up cutting out and replacing was a 4 foot x 6 foot area and this was in a 32 foot boat. The boat was 5 or 6 years old at the time.

                      Both steel and aluminum have their strong points they also have their weaknesses as well.

                      One other thing when welding steel you can use 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018 for stick welding. I know I have missed a few, but these are the ones you can find most any where. And there are any number of mild-steel welding wire that can be used.

                      But with aluminum you need to use the right filler rod or wire for the grade of aluminum you are using there is no mixing or matching the fillers. I know a few that have, but in the end when corrosion strikes it's like gang busters!

                      Myself I would look at fiberglass and a foam core or steel and epoxy paints. I also don't see anything wrong with a wood-foam-wood hull as well. then sheath it in epoxy and glass. This last style of building has a lot going for it. Namely you have a warmer boat for those of us that live up north.

                      Blessings all
                      Krissie

                      Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@...> wrote: You may also consider to use some small sections of aluminum angle bars or small mending plates made off the same aluminum and bent to the desired angle and fastened with aluminum pop rivets. Then the welder can start welding and as he approaches the brackets, just drill off the rivets, remove the brackets and keep going with the welding.
                      You may also have a fabrication shop to bend some strips of aluminum of the same angle of the chines and attach the planking to the cines with pop rivets and then the welder can fill the middle of the joint on the outside and the two edges on the inside. this will also provide for a reinforced chine. Just keep the moulded angle to a minimum so there will be no voids in between the planking and the angle strip.(To prevent corrosion from the inside out) Probably 5/8" x 5/8" will be more than enough.
                      With this procedure you will be also able to make some adjustment if needed for a proper fairing (just drill out the rivet, move slightly till is right and pop another rivet.

                      Please note, this one is just an idea that came into my mind while I was reading your post and not an experienced construction method.

                      One think I will research before starting a similar project is the feasibility to pre assemble all the hull and then start welding. There may be some problems caused by the expansion and contraction of the plates during the welding with consequent warping and distortions that may not occour while a hull is welded step by step and the expansion and contraction of the metal have a place to move to.

                      Giuliano

                      Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
                      I would also concider aluminum. It may be high priced by the pound
                      but you will use less of although it will likely be more costly but
                      maybe not that much. The other big thing is if you have built any
                      wooden boats you already have all the tools you need to build in
                      aluminum. With a table saw , router, skill saw and maybe an electric
                      wood plane you can build any boat in aluminum that you can build in
                      plywood with maybe a few exceptions. Have'nt really thought that out.
                      An aluminum boat will likely sell for a heck of a lot more after 20
                      years than a steel one. The average surveyer may not want to survey
                      an old steel boat but even though they may know less about aluminum
                      they seem to trust it more.
                      The only real down side I know of in aluminum is the problem of
                      bottom paint with the restrictions on tributal tine you may have to be
                      creative there.
                      If I were to build in aluminum I would by a cheap Tig welder and
                      tack it all together myself with a little practice anyone can do
                      that. Then the pro welder will weld right over your tacks. A boat that
                      size I would likely plate in 1/4 inch on the bottom and 3/16 on above
                      the water line.
                      This heavy plating will make getting fair lines much easier and
                      could be backed up with pipe stringers which a fairly cheap.
                      The money saved on building yourself will will likelt pay the
                      difference in cost of aluminum over steel ten times over.
                      Of course you can build yourself in steel but that is much less
                      familiar for a woodworker.
                      Doug

                      Bruce Hallman wrote:

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                    • Douglas Pollard
                      Kristine I was the one talking about buying a welder and tacking things together. But then to hire a welder to do the welding. I would never suggest that
                      Message 10 of 20 , Mar 29, 2008
                        Kristine I was the one talking about buying a welder and tacking
                        things together. But then to hire a welder to do the welding. I would
                        never suggest that someone bungle their way through welding his own
                        boat. The only reason I suggested aluminum is be cause all his wooden
                        boat building is much the same has working with aluminum where sawing
                        and cutting are concerned.
                        The strength of tack welds are only important in that they have to
                        be strong enough to hold until the seams are welded.
                        I am a machinist and a welder I am not a good welder not because I
                        don't know how but because I just can't make a good weld. I learned to
                        weld as a teen ager in the shipyard and after going through six weeks of
                        welding two times ina row the instructor told me I would never be a
                        welder as long as I had a hole in my you know what. Never could see
                        the puddle. I ran a machine shop and a welding shop as well as a
                        blacksmith shop all in the same buisness so I understand welding.
                        Doug

                        Kristine Bennett wrote:
                        >
                        > I have half looked at the posts about the Housebarge, then I saw the
                        > idea of using welded Steel and then welded Aluminum. In years past I
                        > worked for two shops that built Aluminum and Steel craft, here in the
                        > northwest. Some of the ideas that are being kicked around scare me.
                        >
                        > I had to pass a USCG weld test before I could do any welding. I know
                        > you would be doing it DIY and would likely have done little to no
                        > welding of Aluminum. If any of you think you want to build it out of
                        > Aluminum take the time to learn to weld the right way, not hit or
                        > miss. Welds in aluminum can look great but be very brittle, crack and
                        > leak. It's not a good idea to try and teach yourself to weld aluminum.
                        > I went to school to learn the right way to weld steel and then moved
                        > on to aluminum.
                        >
                        > What kind of welder are you going to need? A cheap TIG welder is not
                        > going to do it. You better plan to spend the money to get a 300 amp
                        > AC-DC TIG welder or BIGGER. Then add a water cooled torch and cooler.
                        > Then you need to have the Argon and the things to hook that up to the
                        > welder. And then you are going to be welding very slowly. Oh and
                        > forget welding over head or any other way other then flat.
                        >
                        > The other way to go is with a wirefeed or MIG ones again your little
                        > handyman units are not even going to cut it even for tacking! You will
                        > need to look at a 250 to 300 amp unit, then add a push-pull spool
                        > unit. You can use a 1lb spool gun but you are always changing spools
                        > when you are welding your seams. NOt good seeing how as you are
                        > changing them things are cooling. At every stop and start you have a
                        > chance of leaks. Thats why a lot of places use a spoolpak with the
                        > wire in a 200 lb drum.
                        >
                        > In short it takes a lot of heat to weld Aluminum, and a fair bit of
                        > skill to get things right.
                        >
                        > OK so lets look at Steel. You can weld steel with a buzz box doing
                        > stick welding. Take a couple of classes and you can get good at it. OK
                        > you want to weld faster then stick. OK go to a MIG unit you can now
                        > get away with a 200 or 250 amp unit. Myself I would use dual shield.
                        > it welds hotter then hard wire so you are less likely to have leaks at
                        > your stops and starts on your hull plating.
                        >
                        > To control your rust you have all your steel Wheelabraited and primed
                        > with weld through primer. So all the mill scale is gone and its ready
                        > for welding and repainting.
                        >
                        > I know a lot of people think aluminum is the way to go and you don't
                        > have to worry about corrosion, WRONG you still have to do corrosion
                        > control as well. I have seen aluminum hull plating corroded all the
                        > way through. The area what we ended up cutting out and replacing was a
                        > 4 foot x 6 foot area and this was in a 32 foot boat. The boat was 5 or
                        > 6 years old at the time.
                        >
                        > Both steel and aluminum have their strong points they also have their
                        > weaknesses as well.
                        >
                        > One other thing when welding steel you can use 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018
                        > for stick welding. I know I have missed a few, but these are the ones
                        > you can find most any where. And there are any number of mild-steel
                        > welding wire that can be used.
                        >
                        > But with aluminum you need to use the right filler rod or wire for the
                        > grade of aluminum you are using there is no mixing or matching the
                        > fillers. I know a few that have, but in the end when corrosion strikes
                        > it's like gang busters!
                        >
                        > Myself I would look at fiberglass and a foam core or steel and epoxy
                        > paints. I also don't see anything wrong with a wood-foam-wood hull as
                        > well. then sheath it in epoxy and glass. This last style of building
                        > has a lot going for it. Namely you have a warmer boat for those of us
                        > that live up north.
                        >
                        > Blessings all
                        > Krissie
                        >
                        > Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@... <mailto:ggboat1%40yahoo.com>>
                        > wrote: You may also consider to use some small sections of aluminum
                        > angle bars or small mending plates made off the same aluminum and bent
                        > to the desired angle and fastened with aluminum pop rivets. Then the
                        > welder can start welding and as he approaches the brackets, just drill
                        > off the rivets, remove the brackets and keep going with the welding.
                        > You may also have a fabrication shop to bend some strips of aluminum
                        > of the same angle of the chines and attach the planking to the cines
                        > with pop rivets and then the welder can fill the middle of the joint
                        > on the outside and the two edges on the inside. this will also provide
                        > for a reinforced chine. Just keep the moulded angle to a minimum so
                        > there will be no voids in between the planking and the angle strip.(To
                        > prevent corrosion from the inside out) Probably 5/8" x 5/8" will be
                        > more than enough.
                        > With this procedure you will be also able to make some adjustment if
                        > needed for a proper fairing (just drill out the rivet, move slightly
                        > till is right and pop another rivet.
                        >
                        > Please note, this one is just an idea that came into my mind while I
                        > was reading your post and not an experienced construction method.
                        >
                        > One think I will research before starting a similar project is the
                        > feasibility to pre assemble all the hull and then start welding. There
                        > may be some problems caused by the expansion and contraction of the
                        > plates during the welding with consequent warping and distortions that
                        > may not occour while a hull is welded step by step and the expansion
                        > and contraction of the metal have a place to move to.
                        >
                        > Giuliano
                        >
                        > Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@... <mailto:Dougpol1%40comcast.net>>
                        > wrote:
                        > I would also concider aluminum. It may be high priced by the pound
                        > but you will use less of although it will likely be more costly but
                        > maybe not that much. The other big thing is if you have built any
                        > wooden boats you already have all the tools you need to build in
                        > aluminum. With a table saw , router, skill saw and maybe an electric
                        > wood plane you can build any boat in aluminum that you can build in
                        > plywood with maybe a few exceptions. Have'nt really thought that out.
                        > An aluminum boat will likely sell for a heck of a lot more after 20
                        > years than a steel one. The average surveyer may not want to survey
                        > an old steel boat but even though they may know less about aluminum
                        > they seem to trust it more.
                        > The only real down side I know of in aluminum is the problem of
                        > bottom paint with the restrictions on tributal tine you may have to be
                        > creative there.
                        > If I were to build in aluminum I would by a cheap Tig welder and
                        > tack it all together myself with a little practice anyone can do
                        > that. Then the pro welder will weld right over your tacks. A boat that
                        > size I would likely plate in 1/4 inch on the bottom and 3/16 on above
                        > the water line.
                        > This heavy plating will make getting fair lines much easier and
                        > could be backed up with pipe stringers which a fairly cheap.
                        > The money saved on building yourself will will likelt pay the
                        > difference in cost of aluminum over steel ten times over.
                        > Of course you can build yourself in steel but that is much less
                        > familiar for a woodworker.
                        > Doug
                        >
                        > Bruce Hallman wrote:
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Special deal for Yahoo! users & friends - No Cost. Get a month of
                        > Blockbuster Total Access now
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                      • Douglas Pollard
                        I wasn t disagreeing with you on the welding. I do disagree with the idea that aluminum is any problem at all either in construction or in maintenance or
                        Message 11 of 20 , Mar 29, 2008
                          I wasn't disagreeing with you on the welding. I do disagree with the
                          idea that aluminum is any problem at all either in construction or in
                          maintenance or use. All you do is paint them and they take care of
                          themselves. I have built three alum. boats one was mine and the two
                          others were owned by others they are all in the neighbor hood of 30
                          years old. Electrologist is the only problem with aluminum. Corrosion
                          is almost non existent. Yes wiring electricals and disimular metals
                          have to be kept straight but that is more a mater of Knowlege and less
                          a matter of work.
                          Doug

                          Douglas Pollard wrote:
                          >
                          > Kristine I was the one talking about buying a welder and tacking
                          > things together. But then to hire a welder to do the welding. I would
                          > never suggest that someone bungle their way through welding his own
                          > boat. The only reason I suggested aluminum is be cause all his wooden
                          > boat building is much the same has working with aluminum where sawing
                          > and cutting are concerned.
                          > The strength of tack welds are only important in that they have to
                          > be strong enough to hold until the seams are welded.
                          > I am a machinist and a welder I am not a good welder not because I
                          > don't know how but because I just can't make a good weld. I learned to
                          > weld as a teen ager in the shipyard and after going through six weeks of
                          > welding two times ina row the instructor told me I would never be a
                          > welder as long as I had a hole in my you know what. Never could see
                          > the puddle. I ran a machine shop and a welding shop as well as a
                          > blacksmith shop all in the same buisness so I understand welding.
                          > Doug
                          >
                          > Kristine Bennett wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I have half looked at the posts about the Housebarge, then I saw the
                          > > idea of using welded Steel and then welded Aluminum. In years past I
                          > > worked for two shops that built Aluminum and Steel craft, here in the
                          > > northwest. Some of the ideas that are being kicked around scare me.
                          > >
                          > > I had to pass a USCG weld test before I could do any welding. I know
                          > > you would be doing it DIY and would likely have done little to no
                          > > welding of Aluminum. If any of you think you want to build it out of
                          > > Aluminum take the time to learn to weld the right way, not hit or
                          > > miss. Welds in aluminum can look great but be very brittle, crack and
                          > > leak. It's not a good idea to try and teach yourself to weld aluminum.
                          > > I went to school to learn the right way to weld steel and then moved
                          > > on to aluminum.
                          > >
                          > > What kind of welder are you going to need? A cheap TIG welder is not
                          > > going to do it. You better plan to spend the money to get a 300 amp
                          > > AC-DC TIG welder or BIGGER. Then add a water cooled torch and cooler.
                          > > Then you need to have the Argon and the things to hook that up to the
                          > > welder. And then you are going to be welding very slowly. Oh and
                          > > forget welding over head or any other way other then flat.
                          > >
                          > > The other way to go is with a wirefeed or MIG ones again your little
                          > > handyman units are not even going to cut it even for tacking! You will
                          > > need to look at a 250 to 300 amp unit, then add a push-pull spool
                          > > unit. You can use a 1lb spool gun but you are always changing spools
                          > > when you are welding your seams. NOt good seeing how as you are
                          > > changing them things are cooling. At every stop and start you have a
                          > > chance of leaks. Thats why a lot of places use a spoolpak with the
                          > > wire in a 200 lb drum.
                          > >
                          > > In short it takes a lot of heat to weld Aluminum, and a fair bit of
                          > > skill to get things right.
                          > >
                          > > OK so lets look at Steel. You can weld steel with a buzz box doing
                          > > stick welding. Take a couple of classes and you can get good at it. OK
                          > > you want to weld faster then stick. OK go to a MIG unit you can now
                          > > get away with a 200 or 250 amp unit. Myself I would use dual shield.
                          > > it welds hotter then hard wire so you are less likely to have leaks at
                          > > your stops and starts on your hull plating.
                          > >
                          > > To control your rust you have all your steel Wheelabraited and primed
                          > > with weld through primer. So all the mill scale is gone and its ready
                          > > for welding and repainting.
                          > >
                          > > I know a lot of people think aluminum is the way to go and you don't
                          > > have to worry about corrosion, WRONG you still have to do corrosion
                          > > control as well. I have seen aluminum hull plating corroded all the
                          > > way through. The area what we ended up cutting out and replacing was a
                          > > 4 foot x 6 foot area and this was in a 32 foot boat. The boat was 5 or
                          > > 6 years old at the time.
                          > >
                          > > Both steel and aluminum have their strong points they also have their
                          > > weaknesses as well.
                          > >
                          > > One other thing when welding steel you can use 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018
                          > > for stick welding. I know I have missed a few, but these are the ones
                          > > you can find most any where. And there are any number of mild-steel
                          > > welding wire that can be used.
                          > >
                          > > But with aluminum you need to use the right filler rod or wire for the
                          > > grade of aluminum you are using there is no mixing or matching the
                          > > fillers. I know a few that have, but in the end when corrosion strikes
                          > > it's like gang busters!
                          > >
                          > > Myself I would look at fiberglass and a foam core or steel and epoxy
                          > > paints. I also don't see anything wrong with a wood-foam-wood hull as
                          > > well. then sheath it in epoxy and glass. This last style of building
                          > > has a lot going for it. Namely you have a warmer boat for those of us
                          > > that live up north.
                          > >
                          > > Blessings all
                          > > Krissie
                          > >
                          > > Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@... <mailto:ggboat1%40yahoo.com>
                          > <mailto:ggboat1%40yahoo.com>>
                          > > wrote: You may also consider to use some small sections of aluminum
                          > > angle bars or small mending plates made off the same aluminum and bent
                          > > to the desired angle and fastened with aluminum pop rivets. Then the
                          > > welder can start welding and as he approaches the brackets, just drill
                          > > off the rivets, remove the brackets and keep going with the welding.
                          > > You may also have a fabrication shop to bend some strips of aluminum
                          > > of the same angle of the chines and attach the planking to the cines
                          > > with pop rivets and then the welder can fill the middle of the joint
                          > > on the outside and the two edges on the inside. this will also provide
                          > > for a reinforced chine. Just keep the moulded angle to a minimum so
                          > > there will be no voids in between the planking and the angle strip.(To
                          > > prevent corrosion from the inside out) Probably 5/8" x 5/8" will be
                          > > more than enough.
                          > > With this procedure you will be also able to make some adjustment if
                          > > needed for a proper fairing (just drill out the rivet, move slightly
                          > > till is right and pop another rivet.
                          > >
                          > > Please note, this one is just an idea that came into my mind while I
                          > > was reading your post and not an experienced construction method.
                          > >
                          > > One think I will research before starting a similar project is the
                          > > feasibility to pre assemble all the hull and then start welding. There
                          > > may be some problems caused by the expansion and contraction of the
                          > > plates during the welding with consequent warping and distortions that
                          > > may not occour while a hull is welded step by step and the expansion
                          > > and contraction of the metal have a place to move to.
                          > >
                          > > Giuliano
                          > >
                          > > Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...
                          > <mailto:Dougpol1%40comcast.net> <mailto:Dougpol1%40comcast.net>>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > I would also concider aluminum. It may be high priced by the pound
                          > > but you will use less of although it will likely be more costly but
                          > > maybe not that much. The other big thing is if you have built any
                          > > wooden boats you already have all the tools you need to build in
                          > > aluminum. With a table saw , router, skill saw and maybe an electric
                          > > wood plane you can build any boat in aluminum that you can build in
                          > > plywood with maybe a few exceptions. Have'nt really thought that out.
                          > > An aluminum boat will likely sell for a heck of a lot more after 20
                          > > years than a steel one. The average surveyer may not want to survey
                          > > an old steel boat but even though they may know less about aluminum
                          > > they seem to trust it more.
                          > > The only real down side I know of in aluminum is the problem of
                          > > bottom paint with the restrictions on tributal tine you may have to be
                          > > creative there.
                          > > If I were to build in aluminum I would by a cheap Tig welder and
                          > > tack it all together myself with a little practice anyone can do
                          > > that. Then the pro welder will weld right over your tacks. A boat that
                          > > size I would likely plate in 1/4 inch on the bottom and 3/16 on above
                          > > the water line.
                          > > This heavy plating will make getting fair lines much easier and
                          > > could be backed up with pipe stringers which a fairly cheap.
                          > > The money saved on building yourself will will likelt pay the
                          > > difference in cost of aluminum over steel ten times over.
                          > > Of course you can build yourself in steel but that is much less
                          > > familiar for a woodworker.
                          > > Doug
                          > >
                          > > Bruce Hallman wrote:
                          > >
                          > > ---------------------------------
                          > > Special deal for Yahoo! users & friends - No Cost. Get a month of
                          > > Blockbuster Total Access now
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                        • Tim Anderson
                          Walk to the edge of the bayou, toss in a piece of aluminum, a piece of steel and a piece of plywood; then build your boat out of the one that floats. TA _____
                          Message 12 of 20 , Mar 29, 2008
                            Walk to the edge of the bayou, toss in a piece of aluminum, a piece of steel
                            and a piece of plywood; then build your boat out of the one that floats. TA



                            _____

                            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                            Kristine Bennett
                            Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 8:44 PM
                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Houseboat Concept 41ft x 11 ft



                            I have half looked at the posts about the Housebarge, then I saw the idea of
                            using welded Steel and then welded Aluminum. In years past I worked for two
                            shops that built Aluminum and Steel craft, here in the northwest. Some of
                            the ideas that are being kicked around scare me.

                            I had to pass a USCG weld test before I could do any welding. I know you
                            would be doing it DIY and would likely have done little to no welding of
                            Aluminum. If any of you think you want to build it out of Aluminum take the
                            time to learn to weld the right way, not hit or miss. Welds in aluminum can
                            look great but be very brittle, crack and leak. It's not a good idea to try
                            and teach yourself to weld aluminum. I went to school to learn the right way
                            to weld steel and then moved on to aluminum.

                            What kind of welder are you going to need? A cheap TIG welder is not going
                            to do it. You better plan to spend the money to get a 300 amp AC-DC TIG
                            welder or BIGGER. Then add a water cooled torch and cooler. Then you need to
                            have the Argon and the things to hook that up to the welder. And then you
                            are going to be welding very slowly. Oh and forget welding over head or any
                            other way other then flat.

                            The other way to go is with a wirefeed or MIG ones again your little
                            handyman units are not even going to cut it even for tacking! You will need
                            to look at a 250 to 300 amp unit, then add a push-pull spool unit. You can
                            use a 1lb spool gun but you are always changing spools when you are welding
                            your seams. NOt good seeing how as you are changing them things are cooling.
                            At every stop and start you have a chance of leaks. Thats why a lot of
                            places use a spoolpak with the wire in a 200 lb drum.

                            In short it takes a lot of heat to weld Aluminum, and a fair bit of skill to
                            get things right.

                            OK so lets look at Steel. You can weld steel with a buzz box doing stick
                            welding. Take a couple of classes and you can get good at it. OK you want to
                            weld faster then stick. OK go to a MIG unit you can now get away with a 200
                            or 250 amp unit. Myself I would use dual shield. it welds hotter then hard
                            wire so you are less likely to have leaks at your stops and starts on your
                            hull plating.

                            To control your rust you have all your steel Wheelabraited and primed with
                            weld through primer. So all the mill scale is gone and its ready for welding
                            and repainting.

                            I know a lot of people think aluminum is the way to go and you don't have to
                            worry about corrosion, WRONG you still have to do corrosion control as well.
                            I have seen aluminum hull plating corroded all the way through. The area
                            what we ended up cutting out and replacing was a 4 foot x 6 foot area and
                            this was in a 32 foot boat. The boat was 5 or 6 years old at the time.

                            Both steel and aluminum have their strong points they also have their
                            weaknesses as well.

                            One other thing when welding steel you can use 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018 for
                            stick welding. I know I have missed a few, but these are the ones you can
                            find most any where. And there are any number of mild-steel welding wire
                            that can be used.

                            But with aluminum you need to use the right filler rod or wire for the grade
                            of aluminum you are using there is no mixing or matching the fillers. I know
                            a few that have, but in the end when corrosion strikes it's like gang
                            busters!

                            Myself I would look at fiberglass and a foam core or steel and epoxy paints.
                            I also don't see anything wrong with a wood-foam-wood hull as well. then
                            sheath it in epoxy and glass. This last style of building has a lot going
                            for it. Namely you have a warmer boat for those of us that live up north.

                            Blessings all
                            Krissie

                            Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@yahoo. <mailto:ggboat1%40yahoo.com> com> wrote:
                            You may also consider to use some small sections of aluminum angle bars or
                            small mending plates made off the same aluminum and bent to the desired
                            angle and fastened with aluminum pop rivets. Then the welder can start
                            welding and as he approaches the brackets, just drill off the rivets, remove
                            the brackets and keep going with the welding.
                            You may also have a fabrication shop to bend some strips of aluminum of the
                            same angle of the chines and attach the planking to the cines with pop
                            rivets and then the welder can fill the middle of the joint on the outside
                            and the two edges on the inside. this will also provide for a reinforced
                            chine. Just keep the moulded angle to a minimum so there will be no voids in
                            between the planking and the angle strip.(To prevent corrosion from the
                            inside out) Probably 5/8" x 5/8" will be more than enough.
                            With this procedure you will be also able to make some adjustment if needed
                            for a proper fairing (just drill out the rivet, move slightly till is right
                            and pop another rivet.

                            Please note, this one is just an idea that came into my mind while I was
                            reading your post and not an experienced construction method.

                            One think I will research before starting a similar project is the
                            feasibility to pre assemble all the hull and then start welding. There may
                            be some problems caused by the expansion and contraction of the plates
                            during the welding with consequent warping and distortions that may not
                            occour while a hull is welded step by step and the expansion and contraction
                            of the metal have a place to move to.

                            Giuliano

                            Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@comcast. <mailto:Dougpol1%40comcast.net> net>
                            wrote:
                            I would also concider aluminum. It may be high priced by the pound
                            but you will use less of although it will likely be more costly but
                            maybe not that much. The other big thing is if you have built any
                            wooden boats you already have all the tools you need to build in
                            aluminum. With a table saw , router, skill saw and maybe an electric
                            wood plane you can build any boat in aluminum that you can build in
                            plywood with maybe a few exceptions. Have'nt really thought that out.
                            An aluminum boat will likely sell for a heck of a lot more after 20
                            years than a steel one. The average surveyer may not want to survey
                            an old steel boat but even though they may know less about aluminum
                            they seem to trust it more.
                            The only real down side I know of in aluminum is the problem of
                            bottom paint with the restrictions on tributal tine you may have to be
                            creative there.
                            If I were to build in aluminum I would by a cheap Tig welder and
                            tack it all together myself with a little practice anyone can do
                            that. Then the pro welder will weld right over your tacks. A boat that
                            size I would likely plate in 1/4 inch on the bottom and 3/16 on above
                            the water line.
                            This heavy plating will make getting fair lines much easier and
                            could be backed up with pipe stringers which a fairly cheap.
                            The money saved on building yourself will will likelt pay the
                            difference in cost of aluminum over steel ten times over.
                            Of course you can build yourself in steel but that is much less
                            familiar for a woodworker.
                            Doug

                            Bruce Hallman wrote:

                            ---------------------------------
                            Special deal for Yahoo! users & friends - No Cost. Get a month of
                            Blockbuster Total Access now

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Kristine Bennett
                            Giuliano even crapy tacks would be better then brackets and pop rivets! With a man-eater you can hog out welds in a hurry! There would also be no rivet holes
                            Message 13 of 20 , Mar 29, 2008
                              Giuliano even crapy tacks would be better then brackets and pop rivets! With a man-eater you can hog out welds in a hurry! There would also be no rivet holes that would need to be plugged. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying if you are going to do it do it right the first time. That way you will not have to have it redone.

                              Blessings Krissie

                              Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@...> wrote: Krissie,
                              In my reply to Douglas the core of the discussion was to pre cut, do all the carpentry work and assembly and then to have a qualified professional aluminum welder to do the job.
                              This is why Instead of tacking with a mig as proposed by Douglas, I suggested the idea of the temporary brackets with pop rivets so in that way there are not junky welding spots to go over and the professional welder can weld on all clean joints.
                              I agree with you aluminum is a pain, My Lowe Sea Nimph is only 6 years old and You already can not count the patches of JB-Weld and aluminum epoxy putty any more. The fiberglass 17 years old Glasstron is in the back with all the crappy encapsulated wood roten. This is why from now I will only made my own boats out of wood.

                              Giuliano








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                            • Kristine Bennett
                              Hey Doug part of the reason you couldn t see the weld was likely the filter was to dark. I know I use to have the same thing happen to me. I went to a lighter
                              Message 14 of 20 , Mar 29, 2008
                                Hey Doug part of the reason you couldn't see the weld was likely the filter was to dark. I know I use to have the same thing happen to me. I went to a lighter filter and hey I could see the weld puddle.

                                With a good wirefeed most people can make nice looking welds. If you worked with someone that wanted to teach you they could have you welding in a few hours. The new auto darkening hoods make it so easy to tack and weld you can also adjust how dark they are as well. They are a far cry from the old hoods we learned to weld with.

                                Blessings Krissie

                                Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote: Kristine I was the one talking about buying a welder and tacking
                                things together. But then to hire a welder to do the welding. I would
                                never suggest that someone bungle their way through welding his own
                                boat. The only reason I suggested aluminum is be cause all his wooden
                                boat building is much the same has working with aluminum where sawing
                                and cutting are concerned.
                                The strength of tack welds are only important in that they have to
                                be strong enough to hold until the seams are welded.
                                I am a machinist and a welder I am not a good welder not because I
                                don't know how but because I just can't make a good weld. I learned to
                                weld as a teen ager in the shipyard and after going through six weeks of
                                welding two times ina row the instructor told me I would never be a
                                welder as long as I had a hole in my you know what. Never could see
                                the puddle. I ran a machine shop and a welding shop as well as a
                                blacksmith shop all in the same buisness so I understand welding.
                                Doug








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                              • Kristine Bennett
                                Tim do we do the same thing for an aircraft as well??? Kriss :) Tim Anderson wrote: Walk to the edge
                                Message 15 of 20 , Mar 29, 2008
                                  Tim do we do the same thing for an aircraft as well??? Kriss :)

                                  Tim Anderson <lebateautim@...> wrote: Walk to the edge of the bayou, toss in a piece of aluminum, a piece of steel
                                  and a piece of plywood; then build your boat out of the one that floats. TA

                                  _____







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                                • Tim Anderson
                                  Kristine, Well, I ll confess that my single place high wing Lobet Ganagobie was all wood (+a little fabric) glued together with Aerolite Glue way back in the
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Mar 29, 2008
                                    Kristine, Well, I'll confess that my single place high wing Lobet Ganagobie
                                    was all wood (+a little fabric) glued together with Aerolite Glue way back
                                    in the early 70s; so yes I am partial to wood as a building material. The
                                    price and availability of tools and the broad range of wood species for
                                    various aspects of the projects lends itself to amateur construction. For my
                                    8th birthday I received Mechanix Illust. Pirogue Plans 1- 4 x16 x 1/4 sheet
                                    of 5 ply Simpson AA Marine Douglas Fir plywood, 1 2x4 1 box of SB Boat
                                    nails, Hammer, Stanley low angle block-plane, hand drill etc. soon I had
                                    built a boat and I've never been the same since. Tim P Anderson .



                                    http://www.airventuremuseum.org/collection/aircraft/Lobet-Shafor%20Ganagobie
                                    .asp

                                    _____

                                    From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                    Kristine Bennett
                                    Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:19 PM
                                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Houseboat Concept 41ft x 11 ft



                                    Tim do we do the same thing for an aircraft as well??? Kriss :)

                                    Tim Anderson <lebateautim@ <mailto:lebateautim%40earthlink.net>
                                    earthlink.net> wrote: Walk to the edge of the bayou, toss in a piece of
                                    aluminum, a piece of steel
                                    and a piece of plywood; then build your boat out of the one that floats. TA

                                    _____


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                                  • Giuliano Girometta
                                    Krissie, Thanks for your reply, I am not in metal construction and that was just an idea that came into my mind while reading your idea about pre fabricating
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Mar 30, 2008
                                      Krissie,
                                      Thanks for your reply, I am not in metal construction and that was just an idea that came into my mind while reading your idea about pre fabricating in alluminum and then have a professional welder to do the welding job. I am going with wood.

                                      Giuliano

                                      Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
                                      Giuliano even crapy tacks would be better then brackets and pop rivets! With a man-eater you can hog out welds in a hurry! There would also be no rivet holes that would need to be plugged. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying if you are going to do it do it right the first time. That way you will not have to have it redone.

                                      Blessings Krissie

                                      Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@...> wrote: Krissie,
                                      In my reply to Douglas the core of the discussion was to pre cut, do all the carpentry work and assembly and then to have a qualified professional aluminum welder to do the job.
                                      This is why Instead of tacking with a mig as proposed by Douglas, I suggested the idea of the temporary brackets with pop rivets so in that way there are not junky welding spots to go over and the professional welder can weld on all clean joints.
                                      I agree with you aluminum is a pain, My Lowe Sea Nimph is only 6 years old and You already can not count the patches of JB-Weld and aluminum epoxy putty any more. The fiberglass 17 years old Glasstron is in the back with all the crappy encapsulated wood roten. This is why from now I will only made my own boats out of wood.

                                      Giuliano


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