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Re: [bolger] Random Orbital sanding

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  • Doug Pollard
    I just go my Porter cable rebuilt for less than $30 New bearings, two gears, a switch and new cable. I hope to get a few more years out of it. Boy it as
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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      I just go my Porter cable rebuilt for less than $30 New bearings, two
      gears, a switch and new cable. I hope to get a few more years out of
      it. Boy it as earned it's way over the years.I was expecting at the
      very least a $ 50 bill.

      Doug



      Bruce Hallman wrote:
      >
      > Having sanded acres of epoxy on Topaz, etc. etc. my trusty
      > Porter-Cable Quicksand (now discontinued) has started to die. I
      > value 1) Powerful 2) Lightweight 3) Durability 4) $Bang for the Buck$
      > Any advice on RO sanding?
      >
      >
    • Harry James
      Bruce I used a Dewalt on the rebuild on my Triton, 350 disks later it is still going strong. I have it hooked up to a shop vac with what I believe is a 1.5 in
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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        Bruce

        I used a Dewalt on the rebuild on my Triton, 350 disks later it is still
        going strong. I have it hooked up to a shop vac with what I believe is a
        1.5 in in hose. No dust, very effective. The De Walt has a very good
        internal fan which assists the vacuum. I was in Sears looking for a
        similar rig for my son, $69 for what looked like a good Dewalt, Approx
        $50 for a 3 gal vacuum and another $12 for 10 feet of hose. I get my
        disks from one of the online sites you recommended.


        HJ

        David wrote:
        > Bruce - it's really hard to find a reasonably priced 5" R.O. sander
        > with all of the rest of the attributes listed. I've tried the latest
        > P.Cable palm-grip R.O. (about $50) and they didn't hold up in our
        > shop. The
        > deluxe DeWalt version (about $70) was better.
        >
        > Despite being very happy with all my other Bosch tools, their small
        > R.O. was a bust. What I've settled on for the workhorse is the Bosch
        > D-handle (about $120) 3725EVS. I have three of these now and the
        > oldest is still going strong after maybe 8 years in a high-production
        > environment. Since I've scaled back to semi-retirement, I expect them
        > to last me a good long time. But... if I ever have too much money
        > burning a hole in my pocket, I'll upgrade to a Festool RO150 (about $450).
        >
        > Conclusion. I recommend the Bosch D-handle. Anything less than the
        > DeWalt is a crapshoot - not doomed, but odds not great.
        >
        > Cheers,
        > David Graybeal
        > Portland, OR
        >
        > "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by
        > those who have not got it" -- George Bernard Shaw
        >
        > *********
        >
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
        >
        >> Having sanded acres of epoxy on Topaz, etc. etc. my trusty
        >> Porter-Cable Quicksand (now discontinued) has started to die. I
        >> value 1) Powerful 2) Lightweight 3) Durability 4) $Bang for the Buck$
        >> Any advice on RO sanding?
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
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        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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      • Bob Slimak
        There is one other way of going at this. Since almost all the hand power tools nowdays are junk compared to years ago I figured that no matter what brand I
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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          There is one other way of going at this. Since almost all the hand
          power tools nowdays are junk compared to years ago I figured that no
          matter what brand I bought it was going to wear out with all the
          sanding on a bigger boat. Therefore I bought an inexpensive Skill
          from Menards, on sale for $29.95. I got it replaced twice during it's
          two year warrenty. No messing around with sending it to the
          manufacturer, just bring it into Menards and go grab a replacement. I
          did the same thing with the belt sander. Peter is right on the dust
          though. On my good 6" disc sander, which I don't want to wear out
          too soon, I blow out the motor often, not just at the end of the day.

          Bob Slimak
          Who after shoveling 12 inches of snow yesterday can't wait until
          January to head south!


          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Having sanded acres of epoxy on Topaz, etc. etc. my trusty
          > > Porter-Cable Quicksand (now discontinued) has started to die. I
          > > value 1) Powerful 2) Lightweight 3) Durability 4) $Bang for the
          Buck$
          > > Any advice on RO sanding?
          >
          >
          > Hi Bruce,
          >
          > Having sanded acres of epoxy too, on both a Micro and lately on
          > WINDERMERE, I have yet to be able to kill my Porter-Cable R/O 333!
          > And I have tried mightily too,going for 3,4,and even 5 hour
          stretches
          > non-stop. The little buigger refuses to die. Just out of curiosity,
          do
          > you blow out the dust,from the motor, at the end of each day? This
          may
          > be what has fustrated my attempts to kill mine so that Santa can
          bring
          > me new sander:-) With only a few short weeks left before Christmas,
          I
          > should stop blowing out the dust....it may work this time :-D
          >
          >
          > Sincerely,
          >
          > Peter Lenihan, who just had a flash, perhaps it is our cold weather
          > that helps keep the machine cool instread of just over-
          heating...not
          > that you would know anything about "cold waether", you, you, lucky
          > Californian, you! :-D.......................
          >
        • Bruce Hallman
          Not to rock the boat, 1) I am curious if an Random Orbital air tool makes sense? Are they so obnoxiously noisy that my neighbors will be calling the noise
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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            Not to rock the boat,

            1) I am curious if an Random Orbital air tool makes sense? Are they
            so obnoxiously noisy that my neighbors will be calling the noise
            control officer?

            2) Also, my 'hook and loop' pad wore out long long ago, after a few
            days hard use, and ever since (500 disks or so) I have been using 3M
            77 spray adhesive instead.

            3) I don't want to argue with the tool group that say 'only the best
            is good enough', but I see that I can buy four $29 generic RO sanders
            for the price of a fancy name brand sander. (And I have a sneaky
            suspicion that all these sanders are made in the same Chinese factory
            anyway)

            http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93431
          • BllFs6@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:18:51 PM Central Standard Time, otter55806@yahoo.com writes: Peter Lenihan, who just had a flash, perhaps it is our cold
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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              In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:18:51 PM Central Standard Time,
              otter55806@... writes:

              Peter Lenihan, who just had a flash, perhaps it is our cold weather
              > that helps keep the machine cool instread of just over-
              heating...not
              > that you would know anything about "cold waether", you, you, lucky
              > Californian, you! :-D......... Cali
              >



              Another random thought on power tools....particularly electric ones...


              If you are bogging it down....ie trying to drill, cut, sand or whatever SOOO
              hard that you can hear the motor speed decreasing significantly....thats
              just plain old BAD for the motor, brushes, and bearings....and probably isnt
              helping the human body parts either....and is probably less efficient work
              progress wise either...

              Its bad for the bearings because it means you are putting too much force on
              them....

              Its bad for the motor because decreased speed means decreased air flow in
              COMBINATION with the same IF NOT MORE electrical power being deposited IN THE
              MOTOR....so less air flow AND MORE heat to get rid of....bad combo...

              electrics are unlike internal combustion in that respect....a nearly stalled
              IC engine aint producing much heat....a near stalled electric is drawing the
              same, if not more power...and MORE of that energy is going into HEATING the
              motor....

              And yeah, frequent blowing out of the electric motors is probably a good
              idea as well....

              my .02 pesos

              Blll



              **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
              products.
              (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
              You can get a new hook and loop face that glues on at Lowe s for not much. Jon
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                You can get a new hook and loop face that glues on at Lowe's for not
                much.

                Jon

                > 2) Also, my 'hook and loop' pad wore out long long ago, after a few
                > days hard use, and ever since (500 disks or so) I have been using 3M
                > 77 spray adhesive instead.
              • Bryant Owen
                A lesson I ve learned the hard way - after years of people telling me the same thing. LET THE TOOL DO THE WORK! RO sanders, hand saws, drills, etc. Bryant -
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                  A lesson I've learned the hard way - after years of people telling me
                  the same thing. LET THE TOOL DO THE WORK! RO sanders, hand saws,
                  drills, etc.

                  Bryant - who is on RO sander #3 and wants it to be the last.

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BllFs6@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > In a message dated 12/3/2007 1:18:51 PM Central Standard Time,
                  > otter55806@... writes:
                  >
                  > Peter Lenihan, who just had a flash, perhaps it is our cold weather
                  > > that helps keep the machine cool instread of just over-
                  > heating...not
                  > > that you would know anything about "cold waether", you, you, lucky
                  > > Californian, you! :-D......... Cali
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Another random thought on power tools....particularly electric ones...
                  >
                  >
                  > If you are bogging it down....ie trying to drill, cut, sand or
                  whatever SOOO
                  > hard that you can hear the motor speed decreasing
                  significantly....thats
                  > just plain old BAD for the motor, brushes, and bearings....and
                  probably isnt
                  > helping the human body parts either....and is probably less
                  efficient work
                  > progress wise either...
                  >
                  > Its bad for the bearings because it means you are putting too much
                  force on
                  > them....
                  >
                  > Its bad for the motor because decreased speed means decreased air
                  flow in
                  > COMBINATION with the same IF NOT MORE electrical power being
                  deposited IN THE
                  > MOTOR....so less air flow AND MORE heat to get rid of....bad combo...
                  >
                  > electrics are unlike internal combustion in that respect....a nearly
                  stalled
                  > IC engine aint producing much heat....a near stalled electric is
                  drawing the
                  > same, if not more power...and MORE of that energy is going into
                  HEATING the
                  > motor....
                  >
                  > And yeah, frequent blowing out of the electric motors is probably a
                  good
                  > idea as well....
                  >
                  > my .02 pesos
                  >
                  > Blll
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
                  hottest
                  > products.
                  >
                  (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Kristine Bennett
                  I ve been reading the posts on the RO sanders. When it comes to tools you get what you pay for. I have use almost all the brands that have been listed. No
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                    I've been reading the posts on the RO sanders. When it comes to tools you get what you pay for. I have use almost all the brands that have been listed. No matter what brand you use around fiberglass you are going to eat up bearings and brushes. Wood dust will do the same thing only slower.

                    When it comes to, bang for the buck I've had good luck with the RO sanders and the 4 1/2 inch grinders you can get from Harbor Freight Tools here in the U.S. The one thing I do is pop the gear case on the grinder open and full it with good grease. This goes a long way to get the life out of the gears.

                    Where I work we have five electric buffers that we use to buff the stainless steel tubing we build boat rails out of... They get used a lot. I have two or three of them pulled apart fixing them every month. The buffing compound just eats them up inside. The big thing is keeping them as clean as you can inside.

                    Blowing them out every 10 to 15 mins does wonders to help them live! But I can't get the guys to do it!

                    Here in the U.S. 3M offers some sanding disks and pad that are called Sand Blasters I find the hold up very well grinding and sanding on straight fiberglass. They hold up well fairing out welds on steel as well.

                    Yes I have to agree with you Bryant "Let the tools do their job" The tools also last a whole lot longer as well!



                    Bryant Owen <mariner@...> wrote: A lesson I've learned the hard way - after years of people telling me
                    the same thing. LET THE TOOL DO THE WORK! RO sanders, hand saws,
                    drills, etc.

                    Bryant - who is on RO sander #3 and wants it to be the last.








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                  • Peter Lenihan
                    ... But I can t get the guys to do it! OOOOH......... this is tempting...........but I won t(biting tongue,wrist and fingers)go there !......:-D Sincerely,
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
                      > Blowing them every 10 to 15 mins does wonders to help them live!
                      But I can't get the guys to do it!

                      OOOOH......... this is tempting...........but I won't(biting
                      tongue,wrist and fingers)go there !......:-D


                      Sincerely,

                      Peter Lenihan, trying desperately to be a model of restraint and good
                      taste :-)...........
                    • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                      I can just about bet she has heard all those jokes already. Good to see the Amazon is still around and giveing good .... advice. Jon
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 3, 2007
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                        I can just about bet she has heard all those jokes already. Good to see
                        the Amazon is still around and giveing good .... advice.

                        Jon

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@> wrote:
                        > > Blowing them every 10 to 15 mins does wonders to help them live!
                        > But I can't get the guys to do it!
                        >
                        > OOOOH......... this is tempting...........but I won't(biting
                        > tongue,wrist and fingers)go there !......:-D
                        >
                        >
                        > Sincerely,
                        >
                        > Peter Lenihan, trying desperately to be a model of restraint and good
                        > taste :-)...........
                        >
                      • Hajo Smulders
                        RO Air tools are Noisy; However what is more noisy than the actual tool in my case is my compressor constantly kicking in! These use a LOT of airflow. If
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 4, 2007
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                          RO Air tools are Noisy; However what is more noisy than the actual tool in
                          my case is my compressor constantly kicking in! These use a LOT of airflow.
                          If you're going to go this way you better have a heavy duty piston driven
                          compressor with a huge tank.
                          I use 3M 77 spray adhesive. Disks are a lot cheaper! I also like being able
                          to use very fine grit, wet sanding sandpaper. (This is for paint work; not
                          wood work...)
                          There is absolutely a qualitative difference in tools between different
                          brands. However I am NOT a professional woodworker. Just as I use a $3000
                          Apple laptop for my work (I'm a programmer; work spend 50-60 hours a week on
                          the thing) I would recommend most people to buy a $600 laptop. This is not
                          financially justified; It's just nice when you spend a LOT of time with a
                          tool to have the best one you can get.
                          Most of my power tools are RYOBI. I like them; they're cheap; they're good
                          enough for me... and let's face it; they get barely any work done on them;
                          maybe a few hours a year per tool.(My most popular tools; my electrical saws
                          get maybe 20 hours of actual work a year on each of them; and I doubt that
                          it's that much!
                          What I did spend money on:
                          High quality sharpening stones. You won't find these at harbor freight!
                          A GOOD quality chisel set
                          A GOOD quality block plane
                          (I bought chisel set and block plane used on ebay. Although I could have
                          bought multiple new sets at harbor freight for what I paid these are a
                          pleasure to work with. Also It didn't break the bank: Instead of $10 I would
                          pay $30 which is very acceptable to me for a tool I'll hopefully be using
                          for a lot of years to come.)
                          A GOOD quality Japanese pull saw
                          GOOD quality measuring tools
                          The rest of my tools are all cheap. I'd prefer to spend my money on quality
                          wood and epoxy. I especially consider epoxy to be very important since you
                          can't visually inspect it when you buy it so you have to depend on brand
                          name. I also have been bitten in the past in the @ss using cheap epoxy on a
                          canoe. I have used West system 3 exclusively since that happened.

                          Hajo

                          On Dec 3, 2007 3:21 PM, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:

                          > Not to rock the boat,
                          >
                          > 1) I am curious if an Random Orbital air tool makes sense? Are they
                          > so obnoxiously noisy that my neighbors will be calling the noise
                          > control officer?
                          >
                          > 2) Also, my 'hook and loop' pad wore out long long ago, after a few
                          > days hard use, and ever since (500 disks or so) I have been using 3M
                          > 77 spray adhesive instead.
                          >
                          > 3) I don't want to argue with the tool group that say 'only the best
                          > is good enough', but I see that I can buy four $29 generic RO sanders
                          > for the price of a fancy name brand sander. (And I have a sneaky
                          > suspicion that all these sanders are made in the same Chinese factory
                          > anyway)
                          >
                          > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93431
                          >
                          >



                          --
                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Q: How many women does it take to screw in a light bulb?

                          A: That's "womyn" with a Y, and it's not funny!


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Kristine Bennett
                          LOL Gee I have not a single idea why??!! I see the dyke left a few words out of her message... Funny I understood what I was trying to say. Blessings Krissie
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 4, 2007
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                            LOL Gee I have not a single idea why??!! I see the dyke left a few words out of her message... Funny I understood what I was trying to say.

                            Blessings Krissie

                            Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote: --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
                            > Blowing them every 10 to 15 mins does wonders to help them live!
                            But I can't get the guys to do it!

                            OOOOH......... this is tempting...........but I won't(biting
                            tongue,wrist and fingers)go there !......:-D

                            Sincerely,

                            Peter Lenihan, trying desperately to be a model of restraint and good
                            taste :-)...........






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                          • Kristine Bennett
                            Ahhh Peter I didn t make the mistake...You took out a couple of words... I didn t leave them out like you had me thinking!! You butt! :) Blesssings Krissie ...
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 4, 2007
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                              Ahhh Peter I didn't make the mistake...You took out a couple of words... I didn't leave them out like you had me thinking!! You butt! :)

                              Blesssings Krissie

                              Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote: --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
                              > Blowing them every 10 to 15 mins does wonders to help them live!
                              But I can't get the guys to do it!

                              OOOOH......... this is tempting...........but I won't(biting
                              tongue,wrist and fingers)go there !......:-D

                              Sincerely,

                              Peter Lenihan, trying desperately to be a model of restraint and good
                              taste :-)...........






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                            • Peter Lenihan
                              ... words... I didn t leave them out like you had me thinking!! You butt! :) Aye! Guilty as charged, your honour! But, when I first read your post, my minds
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 4, 2007
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                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Ahhh Peter I didn't make the mistake...You took out a couple of
                                words... I didn't leave them out like you had me thinking!! You
                                butt! :)


                                Aye! Guilty as charged, your honour! But, when I first read your post,
                                my minds eye sorta read it that way.Speaks a small volume of where my
                                mind was at :-) Well, maybe not a small volume...let's call it a
                                brochure...or a pamphlet...oh all right then,the back of a napkin:-)

                                Sincerely,

                                Peter,skipping along the long slope to nowhere fast...........
                              • Chester Young
                                Thanks, yall just made my day :-) Caloosarat _____ From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Lenihan Sent: Wednesday,
                                Message 15 of 22 , Dec 5, 2007
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                                  Thanks, yall just made my day :-)



                                  Caloosarat



                                  _____

                                  From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                  Peter Lenihan
                                  Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:37 AM
                                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [bolger] Re: Random Orbital sanders and 4 1/2 inch grinders



                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com, Kristine
                                  Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Ahhh Peter I didn't make the mistake...You took out a couple of
                                  words... I didn't leave them out like you had me thinking!! You
                                  butt! :)

                                  Aye! Guilty as charged, your honour! But, when I first read your post,
                                  my minds eye sorta read it that way.Speaks a small volume of where my
                                  mind was at :-) Well, maybe not a small volume...let's call it a
                                  brochure...or a pamphlet...oh all right then,the back of a napkin:-)

                                  Sincerely,

                                  Peter,skipping along the long slope to nowhere fast...........





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • doug6949
                                  It is an axiom of brush motor design that brush life goes down substantially as current increases. And current increases with load. Push an already undersized
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Dec 9, 2007
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                                    It is an axiom of brush motor design that brush life goes down
                                    substantially as current increases. And current increases with load.
                                    Push an already undersized motor hard and brush life literally goes
                                    from hours to minutes.

                                    Bottom line: Bog your electric tools down and they will die quickly.
                                    So let the tool do the work.

                                    FWIW, we go through lots of 4.5" angle grinders at work. The Metabo
                                    holds up best and always gets stolen before wearing out.

                                    Doug
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