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Re: Birdwatcher on Sydney Harbour

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  • Greg Flemming
    Yes John, I do seem to remember you mentioning this information in this site or in emails and maybe the tabernacle set-up from the Long Micro would be a
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 25, 2007
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      Yes John, I do seem to remember you mentioning this information in
      this site or in emails and maybe the tabernacle set-up from the Long
      Micro would be a better alternative, from the sound of it.

      It does seem to me though that the mast, as designed, is a real
      problem to raise and lower although I find it interesting that this
      does not seem to be a general opinion??

      However John, you approached this as a problem and first tried a
      tabernacle and then went even further with more radical change, so
      maybe I am not the lone weakling that I have been feeling, after all.

      Still, I would be keen to hear what experiences others have had with
      the mast, as designed.

      Thanks for the response John

      Yes, see you on the Harbour when I get the Scram done and bring it or
      the Micro back down


      Greg F



      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
      > >Greg,
      >
      > The plans for the tabernacle were originally draw for some chap in
      > Western Australia with a bad back. I bought the plans and built it as
      > per spec for my Micro. I cant remember how long it lasted but one day
      > when I was out sailing in about 10 - 15 knots I heard a "cracking"
      > sound and noticed that the mast was a little bit wobbly. There were
      > large cracks on the supports for the tabernacle around the mast
      > partner. Here are some possible reasons:
      >
      > 1. The wood I used was not true to spec. (I thought I used
      > Australian Beech, but it looked decidedly "stringy"
      >
      > 2. The "Bury" of the unstayed mast was not sufficient as per plan.
      > My understanding is that the Bury for an unstayed mast is the distance
      > between the partner and the foot of the mast at the keel
      >
      > 3. All of the above
      >
      > You will notice that the mast sits in the tabernacle above the mast
      > partner. My feeling is that this is insufficient support and that in
      > my case the sheering effects were just too great. I spoke to Rob
      > Ayliffe of Duck Flat wooden boats and he couldn't come up with any
      > reasons for my failure. I sail my boat hard and regularly so I
      > suspect that the chap in WA didn't give the design a good flogging.
      > I currently step my shortened mast to the step in the floor and
      > through the Box of what remains of the tabernacle. The mast is 17
      > feet long and can be stepped/unstepped by me, a 59 year old 150 pound
      > baby boomer. I recut my sail and lost about 10 sqft in area which is
      > not noticeable in performance and also means I can delay reefing in
      > above 15 knot wind.
      >
      > Thats my experience so I hope it helps. I've had the Micro now for
      > about 7 years and am thinking of letting her go to a good home.
      > Anyway I am still searching for a worthy replacement,
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > John
      >
      > PS: See ya out on the Harbour
      >
      > > hello John, and all,
      > >
      > > I had the impression that Philsboat had won the contest although it is
      > > not my personal favourite for a few reasons.
      > >
      > > It's funny but I have been so caught up in trying to get my modified
      > > Scram Pram finished that I haven't concentrated much on other stuff at
      > > all, especially with my Micro, Matilda Jean, which just sits under its
      > > shade sail weathering a bit more, all the time.
      > >
      > > But when I have finally finished the Scram I then plan to do a few
      > > things to the Micro such as changing the deadlights to the as designed
      > > shape, and I would like to modify the mast arrangement so that there
      > > is some kind of tabernacle to assist in raising the mainmast. To that
      > > end I remembered that Duck Flat had done a tabernacle conversion so
      > > contacted them and they then sent the plans over for $35. Lo and
      > > behold it seems that the tabernacle was done for John Mann!
      > >
      > > But then I also seemed to remember you saying, John, that the mast
      > > arrangement on your Micro had problems and needed to be modified after
      > > doing that tabernacle arrangement. I also seem to remember an email
      > > from you where you indicate that your original mainmast was around the
      > > same weight as the one on Matilda Jean. So where this is going is to
      > > ask if you think the Duck Flat arrangement would work, as on the
      > > plans, and if not, what modifications should be made.
      > >
      > > I wonder what the experience of others is with the Micro mainmast,
      > > too, is it too heavy to raise comfortably and what do people do when
      > > alone??? I can't imagine!
      > >
      > > Greg F
      > >
      > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
      > > > >Greg,
      > > >
      > > > I'm still searching for another boat. Philsboat was a
      possibility for
      > > > a while,
      > > >
      > > > Cheers,
      > > >
      > > > John
      > > > >
      > > > > It's incredible that there should be a Birdwatcher on Sydney
      > Harbour,
      > > > > not a few kilometres from where I am most of the time, and I
      > miss it!
      > > > > Still, there was a Micro off Balmain Saling Club for goodness
      knows
      > > > > how long and I never knew it was there, and that was less than a
      > > > > kilometre away! - Until I discovered it through this web site.
      > > > >
      > > > > Last weekend, however, I was up at Pindimar on Port Stephens
      > trying to
      > > > > get some more work done on my "birdwatcher" style boat, a Scram
      > Pram,
      > > > > so I wouldn't have had a chance of being surprised by seeing a
      > > > > Birdwtcher on the Harbour.
      > > > >
      > > > > But you, John, sounded as though you were getting close to
      > building a
      > > > > Philsboat??
      > > > >
      > > > > I recently bought the plans for the Amherst Galley from Mr
      Bolger in
      > > > > case I can convince my employer to build one for our community
      > > > > disability employment service - that is a really great design
      which
      > > > > overcomes the only concerns with Birdwatcher I, by using eight
      oars
      > > > > instead of two and room for eight oarspersons!
      > > > >
      > > > > Why has one not been built? - ahead of it's time, of course, as Mr
      > > > > Bolger himself concedes, no doubt.
      > > > >
      > > > > Greg F
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Larkin" <boblark@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > John, Ian and Robyn's BW has a white hull and light green trim
      > > at the
      > > > > > rub rail. They were not happy with the Solent lug and the
      last I
      > > > heard
      > > > > > were going to the original BW sprit leg-of-mutton with an
      > aluminum
      > > > > > mast. They may have changed their mind and gone modern. So
      > that may
      > > > > > have been them.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Whoever it is, I would be most interested in hearing about
      their
      > > > > > experience with the sail change.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > On my BW2, I am still trying to make the Solent lug (now
      sliding
      > > > > > Gunter) able to be handled, in terms of raising and reefing. To
      > > > handle
      > > > > > the higher winds, I have added a halyard winch, a topping
      lift and
      > > > two
      > > > > > more lines for the clews (reefed and full). This is losing the
      > > > spirit
      > > > > > of simplicity. For some situations, a fully-battened lug rig
      with
      > > > > > jacks, or something like that, may be added. That could use the
      > > same
      > > > > > mast and boom as the Solent lug and still carry a reasonable
      > > > amount of
      > > > > > sail. Too soon to guess, as I want to keep working on the
      > > > original BW2
      > > > > > design, which is great fun to sail!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Bob Larkin
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Greetings Bolgeristas,
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I was out sailing my Micro on Sydney Harbour today (20/10/07
      > about
      > > > > > > 14:00) when to my surprise a white hulled (green trim)
      > Birdwatcher
      > > > > > > slid gently across the water towards Balmain Sailing Club. The
      > > sail
      > > > > > > did not appear to be standard, but a battened fully
      roached sail
      > > > which
      > > > > > > set beautifully on a reach/run. I gave chase but she
      > dissappeared
      > > > > > > into the distance. I know of one other Birdwatcher in
      Australia
      > > > (Dawn
      > > > > > > Song) owned by Ian and Robyn Singleton and I dont think it was
      > > > them.
      > > > > > > If anyone from the Sydney area knows the boat and owner, it
      > > would be
      > > > > > > great to get some info/pics, especially of the sail. As per
      > > design,
      > > > > > > no-one was visible as she sailed by, what a great design,
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Cheers,
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > John
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • mannthree
      ... You may also want to look at the Navigator version of the Tabernacle. I have the plans, but never implemented them. If you want to look at them come on
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 25, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:
        >Greg,

        You may also want to look at the Navigator version of the Tabernacle.
        I have the plans, but never implemented them. If you want to look at
        them come on over. I will sell them for $50,

        Cheers,

        John
        > Yes John, I do seem to remember you mentioning this information in
        > this site or in emails and maybe the tabernacle set-up from the Long
        > Micro would be a better alternative, from the sound of it.
        >
        > It does seem to me though that the mast, as designed, is a real
        > problem to raise and lower although I find it interesting that this
        > does not seem to be a general opinion??
        >
        > However John, you approached this as a problem and first tried a
        > tabernacle and then went even further with more radical change, so
        > maybe I am not the lone weakling that I have been feeling, after all.
        >
        > Still, I would be keen to hear what experiences others have had with
        > the mast, as designed.
        >
        > Thanks for the response John
        >
        > Yes, see you on the Harbour when I get the Scram done and bring it or
        > the Micro back down
        >
        >
        > Greg F
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
        > > >Greg,
        > >
        > > The plans for the tabernacle were originally draw for some chap in
        > > Western Australia with a bad back. I bought the plans and built it as
        > > per spec for my Micro. I cant remember how long it lasted but one day
        > > when I was out sailing in about 10 - 15 knots I heard a "cracking"
        > > sound and noticed that the mast was a little bit wobbly. There were
        > > large cracks on the supports for the tabernacle around the mast
        > > partner. Here are some possible reasons:
        > >
        > > 1. The wood I used was not true to spec. (I thought I used
        > > Australian Beech, but it looked decidedly "stringy"
        > >
        > > 2. The "Bury" of the unstayed mast was not sufficient as per plan.
        > > My understanding is that the Bury for an unstayed mast is the distance
        > > between the partner and the foot of the mast at the keel
        > >
        > > 3. All of the above
        > >
        > > You will notice that the mast sits in the tabernacle above the mast
        > > partner. My feeling is that this is insufficient support and that in
        > > my case the sheering effects were just too great. I spoke to Rob
        > > Ayliffe of Duck Flat wooden boats and he couldn't come up with any
        > > reasons for my failure. I sail my boat hard and regularly so I
        > > suspect that the chap in WA didn't give the design a good flogging.
        > > I currently step my shortened mast to the step in the floor and
        > > through the Box of what remains of the tabernacle. The mast is 17
        > > feet long and can be stepped/unstepped by me, a 59 year old 150 pound
        > > baby boomer. I recut my sail and lost about 10 sqft in area which is
        > > not noticeable in performance and also means I can delay reefing in
        > > above 15 knot wind.
        > >
        > > Thats my experience so I hope it helps. I've had the Micro now for
        > > about 7 years and am thinking of letting her go to a good home.
        > > Anyway I am still searching for a worthy replacement,
        > >
        > > Cheers,
        > >
        > > John
        > >
        > > PS: See ya out on the Harbour
        > >
        > > > hello John, and all,
        > > >
        > > > I had the impression that Philsboat had won the contest although
        it is
        > > > not my personal favourite for a few reasons.
        > > >
        > > > It's funny but I have been so caught up in trying to get my modified
        > > > Scram Pram finished that I haven't concentrated much on other
        stuff at
        > > > all, especially with my Micro, Matilda Jean, which just sits
        under its
        > > > shade sail weathering a bit more, all the time.
        > > >
        > > > But when I have finally finished the Scram I then plan to do a few
        > > > things to the Micro such as changing the deadlights to the as
        designed
        > > > shape, and I would like to modify the mast arrangement so that there
        > > > is some kind of tabernacle to assist in raising the mainmast.
        To that
        > > > end I remembered that Duck Flat had done a tabernacle conversion so
        > > > contacted them and they then sent the plans over for $35. Lo and
        > > > behold it seems that the tabernacle was done for John Mann!
        > > >
        > > > But then I also seemed to remember you saying, John, that the mast
        > > > arrangement on your Micro had problems and needed to be modified
        after
        > > > doing that tabernacle arrangement. I also seem to remember an email
        > > > from you where you indicate that your original mainmast was
        around the
        > > > same weight as the one on Matilda Jean. So where this is going
        is to
        > > > ask if you think the Duck Flat arrangement would work, as on the
        > > > plans, and if not, what modifications should be made.
        > > >
        > > > I wonder what the experience of others is with the Micro mainmast,
        > > > too, is it too heavy to raise comfortably and what do people do when
        > > > alone??? I can't imagine!
        > > >
        > > > Greg F
        > > >
        > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
        > > > > >Greg,
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm still searching for another boat. Philsboat was a
        > possibility for
        > > > > a while,
        > > > >
        > > > > Cheers,
        > > > >
        > > > > John
        > > > > >
        > > > > > It's incredible that there should be a Birdwatcher on Sydney
        > > Harbour,
        > > > > > not a few kilometres from where I am most of the time, and I
        > > miss it!
        > > > > > Still, there was a Micro off Balmain Saling Club for goodness
        > knows
        > > > > > how long and I never knew it was there, and that was less than a
        > > > > > kilometre away! - Until I discovered it through this web site.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Last weekend, however, I was up at Pindimar on Port Stephens
        > > trying to
        > > > > > get some more work done on my "birdwatcher" style boat, a Scram
        > > Pram,
        > > > > > so I wouldn't have had a chance of being surprised by seeing a
        > > > > > Birdwtcher on the Harbour.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > But you, John, sounded as though you were getting close to
        > > building a
        > > > > > Philsboat??
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I recently bought the plans for the Amherst Galley from Mr
        > Bolger in
        > > > > > case I can convince my employer to build one for our community
        > > > > > disability employment service - that is a really great design
        > which
        > > > > > overcomes the only concerns with Birdwatcher I, by using eight
        > oars
        > > > > > instead of two and room for eight oarspersons!
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Why has one not been built? - ahead of it's time, of course,
        as Mr
        > > > > > Bolger himself concedes, no doubt.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Greg F
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Larkin" <boblark@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > John, Ian and Robyn's BW has a white hull and light green trim
        > > > at the
        > > > > > > rub rail. They were not happy with the Solent lug and the
        > last I
        > > > > heard
        > > > > > > were going to the original BW sprit leg-of-mutton with an
        > > aluminum
        > > > > > > mast. They may have changed their mind and gone modern. So
        > > that may
        > > > > > > have been them.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Whoever it is, I would be most interested in hearing about
        > their
        > > > > > > experience with the sail change.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > On my BW2, I am still trying to make the Solent lug (now
        > sliding
        > > > > > > Gunter) able to be handled, in terms of raising and
        reefing. To
        > > > > handle
        > > > > > > the higher winds, I have added a halyard winch, a topping
        > lift and
        > > > > two
        > > > > > > more lines for the clews (reefed and full). This is
        losing the
        > > > > spirit
        > > > > > > of simplicity. For some situations, a fully-battened lug rig
        > with
        > > > > > > jacks, or something like that, may be added. That could
        use the
        > > > same
        > > > > > > mast and boom as the Solent lug and still carry a reasonable
        > > > > amount of
        > > > > > > sail. Too soon to guess, as I want to keep working on the
        > > > > original BW2
        > > > > > > design, which is great fun to sail!
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Bob Larkin
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Greetings Bolgeristas,
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I was out sailing my Micro on Sydney Harbour today (20/10/07
        > > about
        > > > > > > > 14:00) when to my surprise a white hulled (green trim)
        > > Birdwatcher
        > > > > > > > slid gently across the water towards Balmain Sailing
        Club. The
        > > > sail
        > > > > > > > did not appear to be standard, but a battened fully
        > roached sail
        > > > > which
        > > > > > > > set beautifully on a reach/run. I gave chase but she
        > > dissappeared
        > > > > > > > into the distance. I know of one other Birdwatcher in
        > Australia
        > > > > (Dawn
        > > > > > > > Song) owned by Ian and Robyn Singleton and I dont think
        it was
        > > > > them.
        > > > > > > > If anyone from the Sydney area knows the boat and owner, it
        > > > would be
        > > > > > > > great to get some info/pics, especially of the sail. As per
        > > > design,
        > > > > > > > no-one was visible as she sailed by, what a great design,
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Cheers,
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > John
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Greg Flemming
        I may just take you up on that offer next week some time John! Greg ... Tabernacle. ... look at ... in ... Long ... this ... so ... all. ... with ... it or ...
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 25, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          I may just take you up on that offer next week some time John!

          Greg

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
          > >Greg,
          >
          > You may also want to look at the Navigator version of the
          Tabernacle.
          > I have the plans, but never implemented them. If you want to
          look at
          > them come on over. I will sell them for $50,
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > John
          > > Yes John, I do seem to remember you mentioning this information
          in
          > > this site or in emails and maybe the tabernacle set-up from the
          Long
          > > Micro would be a better alternative, from the sound of it.
          > >
          > > It does seem to me though that the mast, as designed, is a real
          > > problem to raise and lower although I find it interesting that
          this
          > > does not seem to be a general opinion??
          > >
          > > However John, you approached this as a problem and first tried a
          > > tabernacle and then went even further with more radical change,
          so
          > > maybe I am not the lone weakling that I have been feeling, after
          all.
          > >
          > > Still, I would be keen to hear what experiences others have had
          with
          > > the mast, as designed.
          > >
          > > Thanks for the response John
          > >
          > > Yes, see you on the Harbour when I get the Scram done and bring
          it or
          > > the Micro back down
          > >
          > >
          > > Greg F
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
          > > > >Greg,
          > > >
          > > > The plans for the tabernacle were originally draw for some
          chap in
          > > > Western Australia with a bad back. I bought the plans and
          built it as
          > > > per spec for my Micro. I cant remember how long it lasted but
          one day
          > > > when I was out sailing in about 10 - 15 knots I heard
          a "cracking"
          > > > sound and noticed that the mast was a little bit wobbly.
          There were
          > > > large cracks on the supports for the tabernacle around the mast
          > > > partner. Here are some possible reasons:
          > > >
          > > > 1. The wood I used was not true to spec. (I thought I used
          > > > Australian Beech, but it looked decidedly "stringy"
          > > >
          > > > 2. The "Bury" of the unstayed mast was not sufficient as per
          plan.
          > > > My understanding is that the Bury for an unstayed mast is the
          distance
          > > > between the partner and the foot of the mast at the keel
          > > >
          > > > 3. All of the above
          > > >
          > > > You will notice that the mast sits in the tabernacle above the
          mast
          > > > partner. My feeling is that this is insufficient support and
          that in
          > > > my case the sheering effects were just too great. I spoke to
          Rob
          > > > Ayliffe of Duck Flat wooden boats and he couldn't come up with
          any
          > > > reasons for my failure. I sail my boat hard and regularly so I
          > > > suspect that the chap in WA didn't give the design a good
          flogging.
          > > > I currently step my shortened mast to the step in the floor and
          > > > through the Box of what remains of the tabernacle. The mast
          is 17
          > > > feet long and can be stepped/unstepped by me, a 59 year old
          150 pound
          > > > baby boomer. I recut my sail and lost about 10 sqft in area
          which is
          > > > not noticeable in performance and also means I can delay
          reefing in
          > > > above 15 knot wind.
          > > >
          > > > Thats my experience so I hope it helps. I've had the Micro
          now for
          > > > about 7 years and am thinking of letting her go to a good
          home.
          > > > Anyway I am still searching for a worthy replacement,
          > > >
          > > > Cheers,
          > > >
          > > > John
          > > >
          > > > PS: See ya out on the Harbour
          > > >
          > > > > hello John, and all,
          > > > >
          > > > > I had the impression that Philsboat had won the contest
          although
          > it is
          > > > > not my personal favourite for a few reasons.
          > > > >
          > > > > It's funny but I have been so caught up in trying to get my
          modified
          > > > > Scram Pram finished that I haven't concentrated much on other
          > stuff at
          > > > > all, especially with my Micro, Matilda Jean, which just sits
          > under its
          > > > > shade sail weathering a bit more, all the time.
          > > > >
          > > > > But when I have finally finished the Scram I then plan to do
          a few
          > > > > things to the Micro such as changing the deadlights to the as
          > designed
          > > > > shape, and I would like to modify the mast arrangement so
          that there
          > > > > is some kind of tabernacle to assist in raising the
          mainmast.
          > To that
          > > > > end I remembered that Duck Flat had done a tabernacle
          conversion so
          > > > > contacted them and they then sent the plans over for $35.
          Lo and
          > > > > behold it seems that the tabernacle was done for John Mann!
          > > > >
          > > > > But then I also seemed to remember you saying, John, that
          the mast
          > > > > arrangement on your Micro had problems and needed to be
          modified
          > after
          > > > > doing that tabernacle arrangement. I also seem to remember
          an email
          > > > > from you where you indicate that your original mainmast was
          > around the
          > > > > same weight as the one on Matilda Jean. So where this is
          going
          > is to
          > > > > ask if you think the Duck Flat arrangement would work, as on
          the
          > > > > plans, and if not, what modifications should be made.
          > > > >
          > > > > I wonder what the experience of others is with the Micro
          mainmast,
          > > > > too, is it too heavy to raise comfortably and what do people
          do when
          > > > > alone??? I can't imagine!
          > > > >
          > > > > Greg F
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@>
          wrote:
          > > > > > >Greg,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I'm still searching for another boat. Philsboat was a
          > > possibility for
          > > > > > a while,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Cheers,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > John
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > It's incredible that there should be a Birdwatcher on
          Sydney
          > > > Harbour,
          > > > > > > not a few kilometres from where I am most of the time,
          and I
          > > > miss it!
          > > > > > > Still, there was a Micro off Balmain Saling Club for
          goodness
          > > knows
          > > > > > > how long and I never knew it was there, and that was
          less than a
          > > > > > > kilometre away! - Until I discovered it through this web
          site.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Last weekend, however, I was up at Pindimar on Port
          Stephens
          > > > trying to
          > > > > > > get some more work done on my "birdwatcher" style boat,
          a Scram
          > > > Pram,
          > > > > > > so I wouldn't have had a chance of being surprised by
          seeing a
          > > > > > > Birdwtcher on the Harbour.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > But you, John, sounded as though you were getting close
          to
          > > > building a
          > > > > > > Philsboat??
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > I recently bought the plans for the Amherst Galley from
          Mr
          > > Bolger in
          > > > > > > case I can convince my employer to build one for our
          community
          > > > > > > disability employment service - that is a really great
          design
          > > which
          > > > > > > overcomes the only concerns with Birdwatcher I, by using
          eight
          > > oars
          > > > > > > instead of two and room for eight oarspersons!
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Why has one not been built? - ahead of it's time, of
          course,
          > as Mr
          > > > > > > Bolger himself concedes, no doubt.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Greg F
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Larkin" <boblark@>
          wrote:
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > John, Ian and Robyn's BW has a white hull and light
          green trim
          > > > > at the
          > > > > > > > rub rail. They were not happy with the Solent lug and
          the
          > > last I
          > > > > > heard
          > > > > > > > were going to the original BW sprit leg-of-mutton with
          an
          > > > aluminum
          > > > > > > > mast. They may have changed their mind and gone
          modern. So
          > > > that may
          > > > > > > > have been them.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Whoever it is, I would be most interested in hearing
          about
          > > their
          > > > > > > > experience with the sail change.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > On my BW2, I am still trying to make the Solent lug
          (now
          > > sliding
          > > > > > > > Gunter) able to be handled, in terms of raising and
          > reefing. To
          > > > > > handle
          > > > > > > > the higher winds, I have added a halyard winch, a
          topping
          > > lift and
          > > > > > two
          > > > > > > > more lines for the clews (reefed and full). This is
          > losing the
          > > > > > spirit
          > > > > > > > of simplicity. For some situations, a fully-battened
          lug rig
          > > with
          > > > > > > > jacks, or something like that, may be added. That could
          > use the
          > > > > same
          > > > > > > > mast and boom as the Solent lug and still carry a
          reasonable
          > > > > > amount of
          > > > > > > > sail. Too soon to guess, as I want to keep working on
          the
          > > > > > original BW2
          > > > > > > > design, which is great fun to sail!
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Bob Larkin
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@>
          wrote:
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Greetings Bolgeristas,
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > I was out sailing my Micro on Sydney Harbour today
          (20/10/07
          > > > about
          > > > > > > > > 14:00) when to my surprise a white hulled (green
          trim)
          > > > Birdwatcher
          > > > > > > > > slid gently across the water towards Balmain Sailing
          > Club. The
          > > > > sail
          > > > > > > > > did not appear to be standard, but a battened fully
          > > roached sail
          > > > > > which
          > > > > > > > > set beautifully on a reach/run. I gave chase but she
          > > > dissappeared
          > > > > > > > > into the distance. I know of one other Birdwatcher
          in
          > > Australia
          > > > > > (Dawn
          > > > > > > > > Song) owned by Ian and Robyn Singleton and I dont
          think
          > it was
          > > > > > them.
          > > > > > > > > If anyone from the Sydney area knows the boat and
          owner, it
          > > > > would be
          > > > > > > > > great to get some info/pics, especially of the sail.
          As per
          > > > > design,
          > > > > > > > > no-one was visible as she sailed by, what a great
          design,
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Cheers,
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > John
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • mannthree
          ... I managed to contact Ian and Robyn Singleton and they confirmed that it was indeed them on the Harbour on the 20th. They also confirmed that they have a
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 29, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@...> wrote:
            >
            I managed to contact Ian and Robyn Singleton and they confirmed that
            it was indeed them on the Harbour on the 20th. They also confirmed
            that they have a new sail (Stitched by Robyn) and made from polytarp.

            It is about 138 sqft and has one batten, but they will add more. They
            decided to add the battens after seeing my modified sail on the
            Micro. They don't have any pics yet. I may get a chance to sail on
            it again soon and if so I'll take some pics,

            Cheers,

            John




            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
            > >Greg,
            >
            > You may also want to look at the Navigator version of the Tabernacle.
            > I have the plans, but never implemented them. If you want to look at
            > them come on over. I will sell them for $50,
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > John
            > > Yes John, I do seem to remember you mentioning this information in
            > > this site or in emails and maybe the tabernacle set-up from the Long
            > > Micro would be a better alternative, from the sound of it.
            > >
            > > It does seem to me though that the mast, as designed, is a real
            > > problem to raise and lower although I find it interesting that this
            > > does not seem to be a general opinion??
            > >
            > > However John, you approached this as a problem and first tried a
            > > tabernacle and then went even further with more radical change, so
            > > maybe I am not the lone weakling that I have been feeling, after all.
            > >
            > > Still, I would be keen to hear what experiences others have had with
            > > the mast, as designed.
            > >
            > > Thanks for the response John
            > >
            > > Yes, see you on the Harbour when I get the Scram done and bring it or
            > > the Micro back down
            > >
            > >
            > > Greg F
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
            > > > >Greg,
            > > >
            > > > The plans for the tabernacle were originally draw for some chap in
            > > > Western Australia with a bad back. I bought the plans and built
            it as
            > > > per spec for my Micro. I cant remember how long it lasted but
            one day
            > > > when I was out sailing in about 10 - 15 knots I heard a "cracking"
            > > > sound and noticed that the mast was a little bit wobbly. There were
            > > > large cracks on the supports for the tabernacle around the mast
            > > > partner. Here are some possible reasons:
            > > >
            > > > 1. The wood I used was not true to spec. (I thought I used
            > > > Australian Beech, but it looked decidedly "stringy"
            > > >
            > > > 2. The "Bury" of the unstayed mast was not sufficient as per plan.
            > > > My understanding is that the Bury for an unstayed mast is the
            distance
            > > > between the partner and the foot of the mast at the keel
            > > >
            > > > 3. All of the above
            > > >
            > > > You will notice that the mast sits in the tabernacle above the mast
            > > > partner. My feeling is that this is insufficient support and
            that in
            > > > my case the sheering effects were just too great. I spoke to Rob
            > > > Ayliffe of Duck Flat wooden boats and he couldn't come up with any
            > > > reasons for my failure. I sail my boat hard and regularly so I
            > > > suspect that the chap in WA didn't give the design a good
            flogging.
            > > > I currently step my shortened mast to the step in the floor and
            > > > through the Box of what remains of the tabernacle. The mast is 17
            > > > feet long and can be stepped/unstepped by me, a 59 year old 150
            pound
            > > > baby boomer. I recut my sail and lost about 10 sqft in area
            which is
            > > > not noticeable in performance and also means I can delay reefing in
            > > > above 15 knot wind.
            > > >
            > > > Thats my experience so I hope it helps. I've had the Micro now for
            > > > about 7 years and am thinking of letting her go to a good home.
            > > > Anyway I am still searching for a worthy replacement,
            > > >
            > > > Cheers,
            > > >
            > > > John
            > > >
            > > > PS: See ya out on the Harbour
            > > >
            > > > > hello John, and all,
            > > > >
            > > > > I had the impression that Philsboat had won the contest although
            > it is
            > > > > not my personal favourite for a few reasons.
            > > > >
            > > > > It's funny but I have been so caught up in trying to get my
            modified
            > > > > Scram Pram finished that I haven't concentrated much on other
            > stuff at
            > > > > all, especially with my Micro, Matilda Jean, which just sits
            > under its
            > > > > shade sail weathering a bit more, all the time.
            > > > >
            > > > > But when I have finally finished the Scram I then plan to do a few
            > > > > things to the Micro such as changing the deadlights to the as
            > designed
            > > > > shape, and I would like to modify the mast arrangement so that
            there
            > > > > is some kind of tabernacle to assist in raising the mainmast.
            > To that
            > > > > end I remembered that Duck Flat had done a tabernacle
            conversion so
            > > > > contacted them and they then sent the plans over for $35. Lo and
            > > > > behold it seems that the tabernacle was done for John Mann!
            > > > >
            > > > > But then I also seemed to remember you saying, John, that the
            mast
            > > > > arrangement on your Micro had problems and needed to be modified
            > after
            > > > > doing that tabernacle arrangement. I also seem to remember an
            email
            > > > > from you where you indicate that your original mainmast was
            > around the
            > > > > same weight as the one on Matilda Jean. So where this is going
            > is to
            > > > > ask if you think the Duck Flat arrangement would work, as on the
            > > > > plans, and if not, what modifications should be made.
            > > > >
            > > > > I wonder what the experience of others is with the Micro mainmast,
            > > > > too, is it too heavy to raise comfortably and what do people
            do when
            > > > > alone??? I can't imagine!
            > > > >
            > > > > Greg F
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
            > > > > > >Greg,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'm still searching for another boat. Philsboat was a
            > > possibility for
            > > > > > a while,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Cheers,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > John
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > It's incredible that there should be a Birdwatcher on Sydney
            > > > Harbour,
            > > > > > > not a few kilometres from where I am most of the time, and I
            > > > miss it!
            > > > > > > Still, there was a Micro off Balmain Saling Club for goodness
            > > knows
            > > > > > > how long and I never knew it was there, and that was less
            than a
            > > > > > > kilometre away! - Until I discovered it through this web site.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Last weekend, however, I was up at Pindimar on Port Stephens
            > > > trying to
            > > > > > > get some more work done on my "birdwatcher" style boat, a
            Scram
            > > > Pram,
            > > > > > > so I wouldn't have had a chance of being surprised by seeing a
            > > > > > > Birdwtcher on the Harbour.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > But you, John, sounded as though you were getting close to
            > > > building a
            > > > > > > Philsboat??
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I recently bought the plans for the Amherst Galley from Mr
            > > Bolger in
            > > > > > > case I can convince my employer to build one for our community
            > > > > > > disability employment service - that is a really great design
            > > which
            > > > > > > overcomes the only concerns with Birdwatcher I, by using eight
            > > oars
            > > > > > > instead of two and room for eight oarspersons!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Why has one not been built? - ahead of it's time, of course,
            > as Mr
            > > > > > > Bolger himself concedes, no doubt.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Greg F
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Larkin" <boblark@> wrote:
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > John, Ian and Robyn's BW has a white hull and light
            green trim
            > > > > at the
            > > > > > > > rub rail. They were not happy with the Solent lug and the
            > > last I
            > > > > > heard
            > > > > > > > were going to the original BW sprit leg-of-mutton with an
            > > > aluminum
            > > > > > > > mast. They may have changed their mind and gone modern. So
            > > > that may
            > > > > > > > have been them.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Whoever it is, I would be most interested in hearing about
            > > their
            > > > > > > > experience with the sail change.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > On my BW2, I am still trying to make the Solent lug (now
            > > sliding
            > > > > > > > Gunter) able to be handled, in terms of raising and
            > reefing. To
            > > > > > handle
            > > > > > > > the higher winds, I have added a halyard winch, a topping
            > > lift and
            > > > > > two
            > > > > > > > more lines for the clews (reefed and full). This is
            > losing the
            > > > > > spirit
            > > > > > > > of simplicity. For some situations, a fully-battened lug rig
            > > with
            > > > > > > > jacks, or something like that, may be added. That could
            > use the
            > > > > same
            > > > > > > > mast and boom as the Solent lug and still carry a reasonable
            > > > > > amount of
            > > > > > > > sail. Too soon to guess, as I want to keep working on the
            > > > > > original BW2
            > > > > > > > design, which is great fun to sail!
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Bob Larkin
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@>
            wrote:
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > Greetings Bolgeristas,
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > I was out sailing my Micro on Sydney Harbour today
            (20/10/07
            > > > about
            > > > > > > > > 14:00) when to my surprise a white hulled (green trim)
            > > > Birdwatcher
            > > > > > > > > slid gently across the water towards Balmain Sailing
            > Club. The
            > > > > sail
            > > > > > > > > did not appear to be standard, but a battened fully
            > > roached sail
            > > > > > which
            > > > > > > > > set beautifully on a reach/run. I gave chase but she
            > > > dissappeared
            > > > > > > > > into the distance. I know of one other Birdwatcher in
            > > Australia
            > > > > > (Dawn
            > > > > > > > > Song) owned by Ian and Robyn Singleton and I dont think
            > it was
            > > > > > them.
            > > > > > > > > If anyone from the Sydney area knows the boat and
            owner, it
            > > > > would be
            > > > > > > > > great to get some info/pics, especially of the sail.
            As per
            > > > > design,
            > > > > > > > > no-one was visible as she sailed by, what a great design,
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > Cheers,
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > John
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • goganrob
            I have found stepping Micro s mast gets easier with practice. The trick is to raise it a little at a time, keeping most of the weight on the sail track (aft
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 2, 2007
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              I have found stepping Micro's mast gets easier with practice. The
              trick is to raise it a little at a time, keeping most of the weight
              on the sail track (aft edge) of the mast, balanced on the forward
              bulkhead, with the mast foot pressing against the bow transom. This
              does scratch up the bulkhead and the inside of the bow transom a
              bit, but it feels a lot safer than the "tossing the caber" motion I
              used to use when I was more protective of David Jost's fresh
              finish. In the early days I tried to raise the mast vertical
              against my shoulder then gently lower it into the step without
              touching any other part of the boat. Using the "slide on the sail
              track" method, you literally step by step, holding the mast overhead
              and walking forward as you increase the angle skyward. When the
              mast foot has slid into the next (lower) transom step, you can
              comfortably walk forward while the sail track bears the bulk of the
              weight until you can take another step forward and slide the foot
              into the next step.

              I still make everyone else get below in case I drop the mast.

              BTW look for my story in the upcoming issue of "Messing About in
              Boats" about how we graduated from a Snark to the Micro.

              --Rob

              > It does seem to me though that the mast, as designed, is a real
              > problem to raise and lower although I find it interesting that this
              > does not seem to be a general opinion??
              >
              > However John, you approached this as a problem and first tried a
              > tabernacle and then went even further with more radical change, so
              > maybe I am not the lone weakling that I have been feeling, after
              all.
              >
              > Still, I would be keen to hear what experiences others have had
              with
              > the mast, as designed.
            • mason smith
              Anent the mast-raising on Micro, I ve just been doing it on mine for the first few times and find the method of letting the forward bulkhead carry the leverage
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 5, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Anent the mast-raising on Micro, I've just been doing it on mine for the first few times and find the method of letting the forward bulkhead carry the leverage while I climb up on the cabintop to lift it the rest of the way is pretty good. Easy, in fact. I'm 6'2", 185 lbs, might not be so easy for shorter lighter person. I think I will put something protective on the edge of the cabin, or on the sail-track.
                What a charming boat in use. I am pleased with my drop-axle trailer, with 5 soft spool-type rollers fitted to the keel and bolsters that pick up the widest part of the bottom abreast the center of weight. I need to provide low guides to bring the keel precisely onto the centerline of the trailer, and then the Micro will be almost as easy as Dovekie or Birdwatcher to launch and retrieve. Mason

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Greg Flemming
                Thanks Rob & Mason You two make the mast seem like a non-event, after all - 6 2 and all that may explain it (maybe age, too??). I don t know, I don t think
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 6, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks Rob & Mason

                  You two make the mast seem like a non-event, after all - 6' 2" and
                  all that may explain it (maybe age, too??). I don't know, I don't
                  think of myself as a weakling at all but I find the mainmast very
                  intimidating to put up and bring down. I did see in a Common Sense
                  Newsletter some years ago the idea of a plywood box channel that could
                  be put in (removable)to guide the mast in , so it would stand at the
                  mast step point running up to the top of the bow transom somehow, but
                  I have never tried that.

                  Our boat is only fibreglassed to just above the waterline, but if it
                  was fibreglassed all over, I would put it on a mooring just off the
                  house. As it is the sun here is so severe that it would be cooked in
                  5 minutes, as is. At present it is under a shade sail but the bits
                  that get some sun don't look too good after just a few seasons

                  Actually, I took John Mann's offer to look at the Micro Navigator
                  plans and bought them from him as the tabernacle that Phil Bolger has
                  designed for the Navigator version and MICRO II seems to make Micro a
                  whole lot more attractive - for single handing, for instance.

                  The tabernacle for Micro II is meant to go with the Chinese Gaff sails
                  and actually puts the mast on the outside of the existing bow transom
                  and therefore puts the mast 30 cm further forward, so a
                  correspondi8nmg increase in mizzen size is required.

                  The other thing is that it gives the bow a more "rounded" look which
                  may appeal to some?

                  Actually, MIcro II looks just great to me ; worth checking out.

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goganrob" <goganrob@...> wrote:

                  Thanks for the comments

                  Greg F
                  >
                  > I have found stepping Micro's mast gets easier with practice. The
                  > trick is to raise it a little at a time, keeping most of the weight
                  > on the sail track (aft edge) of the mast, balanced on the forward
                  > bulkhead, with the mast foot pressing against the bow transom. This
                  > does scratch up the bulkhead and the inside of the bow transom a
                  > bit, but it feels a lot safer than the "tossing the caber" motion I
                  > used to use when I was more protective of David Jost's fresh
                  > finish. In the early days I tried to raise the mast vertical
                  > against my shoulder then gently lower it into the step without
                  > touching any other part of the boat. Using the "slide on the sail
                  > track" method, you literally step by step, holding the mast overhead
                  > and walking forward as you increase the angle skyward. When the
                  > mast foot has slid into the next (lower) transom step, you can
                  > comfortably walk forward while the sail track bears the bulk of the
                  > weight until you can take another step forward and slide the foot
                  > into the next step.
                  >
                  > I still make everyone else get below in case I drop the mast.
                  >
                  > BTW look for my story in the upcoming issue of "Messing About in
                  > Boats" about how we graduated from a Snark to the Micro.
                  >
                  > --Rob
                  >
                  > > It does seem to me though that the mast, as designed, is a real
                  > > problem to raise and lower although I find it interesting that this
                  > > does not seem to be a general opinion??
                  > >
                  > > However John, you approached this as a problem and first tried a
                  > > tabernacle and then went even further with more radical change, so
                  > > maybe I am not the lone weakling that I have been feeling, after
                  > all.
                  > >
                  > > Still, I would be keen to hear what experiences others have had
                  > with
                  > > the mast, as designed.
                  >
                • graeme19121984
                  ... Hi Greg, I feel like I ve missed something here - is there now a Micro II? In addittion to Micro Navigator? Wow! Could you describe Micro II a bit further
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 6, 2007
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:
                    > Actually, MIcro II looks just great to me ; worth checking out.


                    Hi Greg,

                    I feel like I've missed something here - is there now a Micro II? In
                    addittion to Micro Navigator? Wow! Could you describe Micro II a bit
                    further please?

                    Graeme
                  • Greg Flemming
                    Hi Graeme Micro II is the older cuddy cabin Micro with some mods. such as the Chinese Gaff rig and the tabernacle mast with a more pointy bow (sort of) and the
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 7, 2007
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                      Hi Graeme

                      Micro II is the older cuddy cabin Micro with some mods. such as the
                      Chinese Gaff rig and the tabernacle mast with a more pointy bow (sort
                      of) and the addition of some foam fillets to fill out the bottom near
                      the bow in order to reduce wave slapping at anchor which apparently
                      many have complained about (noise) These fillets mean that keel in the
                      forward part of the boat needs to be deepened by two inches or so.

                      That's about it, but the changes do make the boat seem a lot more
                      attractive to me, at least.

                      The plan modifications are the Navigator ones but just not putting the
                      Birdwatcher cabin on, that's about it.

                      Besr wishes

                      Greg

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
                      > > Actually, MIcro II looks just great to me ; worth checking out.
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Greg,
                      >
                      > I feel like I've missed something here - is there now a Micro II? In
                      > addittion to Micro Navigator? Wow! Could you describe Micro II a bit
                      > further please?
                      >
                      > Graeme
                      >
                    • graeme19121984
                      Ahh, gotcha. Thanks for the explanation Greg. I wonder if anyone will build her this way? Graeme
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 8, 2007
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                        Ahh, gotcha. Thanks for the explanation Greg. I wonder if anyone will
                        build her this way?

                        Graeme


                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:

                        > The plan modifications are the Navigator ones but just not putting the
                        > Birdwatcher cabin on, that's about it.
                      • Greg Flemming
                        Well Graeme As soon as I have completed the (modified) Scram Pram that I am building at present (which is taking forever) I would like to apply those
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 9, 2007
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                          Well Graeme

                          As soon as I have completed the (modified) Scram Pram that I am
                          building at present (which is taking forever) I would like to apply
                          those modifications to the Micro that we have. That long mast is
                          intimidating to raise and bring down and actually discourages us using
                          the boat.

                          One other significant modification on the Micro II plans that I forgot
                          to mention is the end plate on the rudder ; in the notes Bolger says
                          that the end plate significantly improves rudder response.

                          Greg




                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Ahh, gotcha. Thanks for the explanation Greg. I wonder if anyone will
                          > build her this way?
                          >
                          > Graeme
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
                          >
                          > > The plan modifications are the Navigator ones but just not putting the
                          > > Birdwatcher cabin on, that's about it.
                          >
                        • Greg Flemming
                          Oh! ...and a couple more things...the mast tabernacle increases the length of the boat to 15 11 on the plan and moves the mainmast 12 further forward so
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 9, 2007
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                            Oh! ...and a couple more things...the mast tabernacle increases the
                            length of the boat to 15' 11" on the plan and moves the mainmast 12"
                            further forward so the notes mention that there needs to be a
                            corresponding increase in the size of the mizzen. The mizzen shown on
                            the Micro II plan mods. is a Chinese Gaff as well as the main and is
                            that little bit bigger than in Micro I.

                            By the way, to quote from Bolger's notes for Micro II: "Accumulating
                            complaints from owners, mainly about sleeplessness due to noisy
                            poinding and slapping under the flat bow overhang but also about the
                            heavy and somewhat risky process of erecting the long mainmast, led to
                            another look at the design, to be called Micro II."

                            Greg

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Well Graeme
                            >
                            > As soon as I have completed the (modified) Scram Pram that I am
                            > building at present (which is taking forever) I would like to apply
                            > those modifications to the Micro that we have. That long mast is
                            > intimidating to raise and bring down and actually discourages us using
                            > the boat.
                            >
                            > One other significant modification on the Micro II plans that I forgot
                            > to mention is the end plate on the rudder ; in the notes Bolger says
                            > that the end plate significantly improves rudder response.
                            >
                            > Greg
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Ahh, gotcha. Thanks for the explanation Greg. I wonder if anyone will
                            > > build her this way?
                            > >
                            > > Graeme
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > The plan modifications are the Navigator ones but just not
                            putting the
                            > > > Birdwatcher cabin on, that's about it.
                            > >
                            >
                          • Kristine Bennett
                            Greg they have been putting top and bottom end plates on work boat rudders for years. I remember seeing a log boom boat with them 35 years or so ago. They do
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 10, 2007
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                              Greg they have been putting top and bottom end plates on work boat rudders for years. I remember seeing a log boom boat with them 35 years or so ago. They do change the way a hull handles at low speed.

                              I think Phil is the first one to put them on a sailboat...or at least his were the first design I saw then on the drawings.

                              Blessings all Krissie

                              Greg Flemming <greg@...> wrote: Well Graeme

                              As soon as I have completed the (modified) Scram Pram that I am
                              building at present (which is taking forever) I would like to apply
                              those modifications to the Micro that we have. That long mast is
                              intimidating to raise and bring down and actually discourages us using
                              the boat.

                              One other significant modification on the Micro II plans that I forgot
                              to mention is the end plate on the rudder ; in the notes Bolger says
                              that the end plate significantly improves rudder response.

                              Greg



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                            • Greg Flemming
                              That s interesting Krissie Yes, Bolger seems to get lots of his ideas from traditional practices ;his enthusiasm for the Norfolk Wherry & Thames barges comes
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 10, 2007
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                                That's interesting Krissie

                                Yes, Bolger seems to get lots of his ideas from traditional practices
                                ;his enthusiasm for the Norfolk Wherry & Thames barges comes to mind.

                                Both fascinating boats, too

                                I wonder if anyone has read the novel of A P Herbert on Thames Barges
                                in the Dunkirk evacuation, called The Singing Swan?

                                I bet that's a novel that would appeal to Phil Bolger!

                                Greg

                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Greg they have been putting top and bottom end plates on work boat
                                rudders for years. I remember seeing a log boom boat with them 35
                                years or so ago. They do change the way a hull handles at low speed.
                                >
                                > I think Phil is the first one to put them on a sailboat...or at
                                least his were the first design I saw then on the drawings.
                                >
                                > Blessings all Krissie
                                >
                                > Greg Flemming <greg@...> wrote: Well
                                Graeme
                                >
                                > As soon as I have completed the (modified) Scram Pram that I am
                                > building at present (which is taking forever) I would like to apply
                                > those modifications to the Micro that we have. That long mast is
                                > intimidating to raise and bring down and actually discourages us using
                                > the boat.
                                >
                                > One other significant modification on the Micro II plans that I forgot
                                > to mention is the end plate on the rudder ; in the notes Bolger says
                                > that the end plate significantly improves rudder response.
                                >
                                > Greg
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Reply (via web post) |
                                Start a new topic
                                > Messages | Files
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                                | Calendar
                                > Bolger rules!!!
                                > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
                                dead horses
                                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
                                posts
                                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                                01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                >
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                              • graeme19121984
                                ... boat ... IIRC some time ago I read somewhere in some of the Chuck Merrell collection old CSD Newletters of Elrow LaRowe --
                                Message 15 of 22 , Nov 10, 2007
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                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:
                                  > That's interesting Krissie

                                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@> wrote:
                                  > > Greg they have been putting top and bottom end plates on work
                                  boat
                                  > rudders for years.

                                  IIRC some time ago I read somewhere in some of the Chuck Merrell
                                  collection old CSD Newletters of Elrow LaRowe --
                                  http://www.boatdesign.com/micro/pages/letters.htm -- that when asked
                                  why the rudder end plate on the then new Old Shoe design was not on
                                  the
                                  older Micro design, Bolger had replied he did not know other than he
                                  simply must have forgot to show it on the plan! It's on the later
                                  Long
                                  Micro, and obviously now is on Micro II.

                                  Graeme
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