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Re: Cartopper review

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  • chebacco_30
    Hi Bruce, My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the leg-o-mutton sail. I found Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without grave
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
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      Hi Bruce,

      My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the "leg-o-mutton" sail. I found
      Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without
      grave discomfort. I thought the Cartopper would be merely shortened
      version. Maybe I need to build another Gypsy.

      Romayne

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
      >
      > On 9/4/07, chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
      > > sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
      > > Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
      > > hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
      > > suggestions are welcome.
      >
      > Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds
      > there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
      > shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
      > day.
      >
      > On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
      > dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
      > not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
      > You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
      > hull.
      >
      > To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
      > might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
      > can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
      > a Gypsy.
      >
      > Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
      > might be interesting.
      >
      > http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
      >
    • Bruce Hallman
      If you consider your Cartopper drastically flawed, you might explore cutting out the centerboard trunk, and go with a leeboard which would fix your trim
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
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        If you consider your Cartopper drastically flawed, you might explore
        cutting out the centerboard trunk, and go with a leeboard which would
        fix your 'trim' while rowing two problem.
      • Rick Bedard
        Go to the CA Delta Messabout photo group; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CA_Delta_Messabout/ Look in the photo section under the April 2004 folder and see
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
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          Go to the CA Delta Messabout photo group;

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CA_Delta_Messabout/

          Look in the photo section under the April 2004 folder and see photos of two Cartoppers under sail. Early spring Delta conditions, cold water, cool strong blustery breeze, a narrow channel, and a current running as much as four knots. John O'Neil is the builder of both and sailor of one. Quite a few people either went for a ride, row or solo sail in John's Cartopper that day. They seemed to be having a blast, (I took the photos from my Microtrawler), and I don't recall any problems with seating or sailing. Of course, I can say for sure John is a much better sailor than I ever will be... He was full of stories of sailing in Sasuin Bay (spelling?), if you know that bit of the Bay waters you know it's challenging for a small daysailer. He also took lots of his time to explain the set-up on his boat to anyone interested.

          If you post a message on that site perhaps John will reply. He lives somewhere in striking distance of you. Maybe a messabout at Berryessa would give you a chance to compare gear and sailing techniques. I don't think John reads the Bolger Group. He also posted at least one article with photos about his Cartopper set-up on Duckworks. Have a look there.

          Then again, if Cartopper is not the boat for you, let me know if you are interested in selling, or maybe trading? Any interest in a very nicely built, stitch and glued Teal?

          Rick

          chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote: Hi Bruce,

          My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the "leg-o-mutton" sail. I found
          Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without
          grave discomfort. I thought the Cartopper would be merely shortened
          version. Maybe I need to build another Gypsy.

          Romayne

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman"
          wrote:
          >
          > On 9/4/07, chebacco_30 wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
          > > sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
          > > Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
          > > hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
          > > suggestions are welcome.
          >
          > Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds
          > there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
          > shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
          > day.
          >
          > On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
          > dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
          > not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
          > You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
          > hull.
          >
          > To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
          > might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
          > can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
          > a Gypsy.
          >
          > Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
          > might be interesting.
          >
          > http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
          >




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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • catboat15@aol.com
          I have built and sailed, rowed and puttered around with a small outboard and I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one right now.)
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 5, 2007
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            I have built and sailed, rowed and puttered around with a small outboard and
            I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one right now.)

            Forget about those hooks for looping the sheet. I think they were added for
            the optional sail plan. What I did with mine was to add a block to the clew at
            the end of the spirit boom. Added a rope horse across the transom. The main
            sheet had a clip that hooked to the horse; up to the block then to an eye
            bolt on top of the tiller where it is hinged to the rudder, this allowed me to
            hold the sheet with the same hand as on the tiller. Since the skipper is
            sitting on the bottom of the boat I added a rope across the hull from side to
            side to grab and pull myself to the windward side when tacking. The seat is
            used only for rowing and is loose to slide around on the floor boards to adjust
            for the rowing position. The plans show two sets of "foot braces" one set
            when rowing solo and the other set when loaded with a passenger..
            I have been dumped into the drink, but my own fault since I was sitting on
            the sheet and could not let it fly when the wind came over the other quarter
            (sailing on a lake where the wind goes funny directions through the hills
            surrounding the lake.) When I sailed with a passenger they usually sat opposite
            me and slightly towards the stern while I sat as close to the CB trunk as I
            could without bumping into it when changing from one tack to the other.
            Sure not the most comfortable boat to either sail or row, but light enough
            to carry on the luggage rack on my car, even can load it from a curb to the top
            of a Jeep Cherokee (would not like to try to put it on top of a Ford
            Explorer!) Loads up on our Toyota Rav4 with little work and rides fine up there.

            I don't see how you could sit high enough to be hit by a block at the end of
            the spirit boom as the boom is well above your head in normal seating on the
            bottom of the boat (I had a life float I sat on to spare my rear end from the
            wood)

            The only real problem I has was that it was really difficult to see to the
            lee side through that sail; almost had some collisions tacking back to my site
            down a channel lined with yachts.



            Bolger, Payson Car topper
            14-9 foot Swifty
            John Meacham



            ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
            http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • chebacco_30
            I have the spritsail not the leg-o-mutton. The hooks are designed for the sail I have. However, I think I have found a rather simple solution after seeing
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 5, 2007
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              I have the spritsail not the leg-o-mutton.

              The hooks are "designed" for the sail I have. However, I think I have
              found a rather simple solution after seeing this photo of Optis on
              Sailing Anarchy

              http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2007/images/mine%27s%20the%20white%20one.jpg

              I think I'm going to make myself a boom and quit complaining.

              r

              ps: I don't know how to add a link, but if you copy and paste...

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, catboat15@... wrote:

              >
              > I have built and sailed, rowed and puttered around with a small
              outboard and
              > I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one
              right now.)
              >
              > Forget about those hooks for looping the sheet. I think they were
              added for
              > the optional sail plan. What I did with mine was to add a block to
              the clew at
              > the end of the spirit boom. Added a rope horse across the transom.
              The main
              > sheet had a clip that hooked to the horse; up to the block then to
              an eye
              > bolt on top of the tiller where it is hinged to the rudder, this
              allowed me to
              > hold the sheet with the same hand as on the tiller. Since the
              skipper is
              > sitting on the bottom of the boat I added a rope across the hull
              from side to
              > side to grab and pull myself to the windward side when tacking.
              The seat is
              > used only for rowing and is loose to slide around on the floor
              boards to adjust
              > for the rowing position. The plans show two sets of "foot braces"
              one set
              > when rowing solo and the other set when loaded with a passenger..
              > I have been dumped into the drink, but my own fault since I was
              sitting on
              > the sheet and could not let it fly when the wind came over the other
              quarter
              > (sailing on a lake where the wind goes funny directions through the
              hills
              > surrounding the lake.) When I sailed with a passenger they usually
              sat opposite
              > me and slightly towards the stern while I sat as close to the CB
              trunk as I
              > could without bumping into it when changing from one tack to the other.
              > Sure not the most comfortable boat to either sail or row, but light
              enough
              > to carry on the luggage rack on my car, even can load it from a curb
              to the top
              > of a Jeep Cherokee (would not like to try to put it on top of a Ford
              > Explorer!) Loads up on our Toyota Rav4 with little work and rides
              fine up there.
              >
              > I don't see how you could sit high enough to be hit by a block at
              the end of
              > the spirit boom as the boom is well above your head in normal
              seating on the
              > bottom of the boat (I had a life float I sat on to spare my rear end
              from the
              > wood)
              >
              > The only real problem I has was that it was really difficult to see
              to the
              > lee side through that sail; almost had some collisions tacking back
              to my site
              > down a channel lined with yachts.
              >
              >
              >
              > Bolger, Payson Car topper
              > 14-9 foot Swifty
              > John Meacham
              >
              >
              >
              > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the
              all-new AOL at
              > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • John Kohnen
              Try using two sheets, like a jib. Put turning blocks for the sheets where the hooks are. That s the way the spritsail on my skiff is rigged, and it works
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 12, 2007
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                Try using two sheets, like a jib. Put turning blocks for the sheets where
                the "hooks" are. That's the way the spritsail on my skiff is rigged, and
                it works great. You just let go of one sheet and grab the other when you
                tack.

                There are advantages to having a boom when the wind is aft, but a boom
                adds complexity and doesn't really help when reaching or close-hauled. You
                know why they call it a "boom" don't you? I saw an older fellow at our
                local yacht club all kitted out to sail his Finn, with color matched
                Spandex duds, PFD, sailing gloves, and even a helmet -- in case the boom
                decided to live up to its name. ;o)

                On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:23:55 -0700, r wrote:

                > I have the spritsail not the leg-o-mutton.
                >
                > The hooks are "designed" for the sail I have.
                > ...

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in
                times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant
                to endure. <Thurgood Marshall>
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