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Re: [bolger] Cartopper review

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  • Bruce Hallman
    ... Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to shore. Plus is
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
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      On 9/4/07, chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
      > sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
      > Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
      > hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
      > suggestions are welcome.

      Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds
      there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
      shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
      day.

      On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
      dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
      not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
      You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
      hull.

      To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
      might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
      can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
      a Gypsy.

      Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
      might be interesting.

      http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
    • chebacco_30
      Hi Bruce, My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the leg-o-mutton sail. I found Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without grave
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
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        Hi Bruce,

        My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the "leg-o-mutton" sail. I found
        Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without
        grave discomfort. I thought the Cartopper would be merely shortened
        version. Maybe I need to build another Gypsy.

        Romayne

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
        >
        > On 9/4/07, chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
        > > sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
        > > Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
        > > hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
        > > suggestions are welcome.
        >
        > Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds
        > there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
        > shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
        > day.
        >
        > On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
        > dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
        > not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
        > You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
        > hull.
        >
        > To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
        > might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
        > can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
        > a Gypsy.
        >
        > Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
        > might be interesting.
        >
        > http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
        >
      • Bruce Hallman
        If you consider your Cartopper drastically flawed, you might explore cutting out the centerboard trunk, and go with a leeboard which would fix your trim
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
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          If you consider your Cartopper drastically flawed, you might explore
          cutting out the centerboard trunk, and go with a leeboard which would
          fix your 'trim' while rowing two problem.
        • Rick Bedard
          Go to the CA Delta Messabout photo group; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CA_Delta_Messabout/ Look in the photo section under the April 2004 folder and see
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
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            Go to the CA Delta Messabout photo group;

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CA_Delta_Messabout/

            Look in the photo section under the April 2004 folder and see photos of two Cartoppers under sail. Early spring Delta conditions, cold water, cool strong blustery breeze, a narrow channel, and a current running as much as four knots. John O'Neil is the builder of both and sailor of one. Quite a few people either went for a ride, row or solo sail in John's Cartopper that day. They seemed to be having a blast, (I took the photos from my Microtrawler), and I don't recall any problems with seating or sailing. Of course, I can say for sure John is a much better sailor than I ever will be... He was full of stories of sailing in Sasuin Bay (spelling?), if you know that bit of the Bay waters you know it's challenging for a small daysailer. He also took lots of his time to explain the set-up on his boat to anyone interested.

            If you post a message on that site perhaps John will reply. He lives somewhere in striking distance of you. Maybe a messabout at Berryessa would give you a chance to compare gear and sailing techniques. I don't think John reads the Bolger Group. He also posted at least one article with photos about his Cartopper set-up on Duckworks. Have a look there.

            Then again, if Cartopper is not the boat for you, let me know if you are interested in selling, or maybe trading? Any interest in a very nicely built, stitch and glued Teal?

            Rick

            chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote: Hi Bruce,

            My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the "leg-o-mutton" sail. I found
            Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without
            grave discomfort. I thought the Cartopper would be merely shortened
            version. Maybe I need to build another Gypsy.

            Romayne

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman"
            wrote:
            >
            > On 9/4/07, chebacco_30 wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
            > > sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
            > > Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
            > > hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
            > > suggestions are welcome.
            >
            > Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds
            > there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
            > shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
            > day.
            >
            > On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
            > dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
            > not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
            > You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
            > hull.
            >
            > To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
            > might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
            > can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
            > a Gypsy.
            >
            > Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
            > might be interesting.
            >
            > http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
            >




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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • catboat15@aol.com
            I have built and sailed, rowed and puttered around with a small outboard and I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one right now.)
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 5, 2007
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              I have built and sailed, rowed and puttered around with a small outboard and
              I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one right now.)

              Forget about those hooks for looping the sheet. I think they were added for
              the optional sail plan. What I did with mine was to add a block to the clew at
              the end of the spirit boom. Added a rope horse across the transom. The main
              sheet had a clip that hooked to the horse; up to the block then to an eye
              bolt on top of the tiller where it is hinged to the rudder, this allowed me to
              hold the sheet with the same hand as on the tiller. Since the skipper is
              sitting on the bottom of the boat I added a rope across the hull from side to
              side to grab and pull myself to the windward side when tacking. The seat is
              used only for rowing and is loose to slide around on the floor boards to adjust
              for the rowing position. The plans show two sets of "foot braces" one set
              when rowing solo and the other set when loaded with a passenger..
              I have been dumped into the drink, but my own fault since I was sitting on
              the sheet and could not let it fly when the wind came over the other quarter
              (sailing on a lake where the wind goes funny directions through the hills
              surrounding the lake.) When I sailed with a passenger they usually sat opposite
              me and slightly towards the stern while I sat as close to the CB trunk as I
              could without bumping into it when changing from one tack to the other.
              Sure not the most comfortable boat to either sail or row, but light enough
              to carry on the luggage rack on my car, even can load it from a curb to the top
              of a Jeep Cherokee (would not like to try to put it on top of a Ford
              Explorer!) Loads up on our Toyota Rav4 with little work and rides fine up there.

              I don't see how you could sit high enough to be hit by a block at the end of
              the spirit boom as the boom is well above your head in normal seating on the
              bottom of the boat (I had a life float I sat on to spare my rear end from the
              wood)

              The only real problem I has was that it was really difficult to see to the
              lee side through that sail; almost had some collisions tacking back to my site
              down a channel lined with yachts.



              Bolger, Payson Car topper
              14-9 foot Swifty
              John Meacham



              ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
              http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • chebacco_30
              I have the spritsail not the leg-o-mutton. The hooks are designed for the sail I have. However, I think I have found a rather simple solution after seeing
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 5, 2007
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                I have the spritsail not the leg-o-mutton.

                The hooks are "designed" for the sail I have. However, I think I have
                found a rather simple solution after seeing this photo of Optis on
                Sailing Anarchy

                http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2007/images/mine%27s%20the%20white%20one.jpg

                I think I'm going to make myself a boom and quit complaining.

                r

                ps: I don't know how to add a link, but if you copy and paste...

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, catboat15@... wrote:

                >
                > I have built and sailed, rowed and puttered around with a small
                outboard and
                > I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one
                right now.)
                >
                > Forget about those hooks for looping the sheet. I think they were
                added for
                > the optional sail plan. What I did with mine was to add a block to
                the clew at
                > the end of the spirit boom. Added a rope horse across the transom.
                The main
                > sheet had a clip that hooked to the horse; up to the block then to
                an eye
                > bolt on top of the tiller where it is hinged to the rudder, this
                allowed me to
                > hold the sheet with the same hand as on the tiller. Since the
                skipper is
                > sitting on the bottom of the boat I added a rope across the hull
                from side to
                > side to grab and pull myself to the windward side when tacking.
                The seat is
                > used only for rowing and is loose to slide around on the floor
                boards to adjust
                > for the rowing position. The plans show two sets of "foot braces"
                one set
                > when rowing solo and the other set when loaded with a passenger..
                > I have been dumped into the drink, but my own fault since I was
                sitting on
                > the sheet and could not let it fly when the wind came over the other
                quarter
                > (sailing on a lake where the wind goes funny directions through the
                hills
                > surrounding the lake.) When I sailed with a passenger they usually
                sat opposite
                > me and slightly towards the stern while I sat as close to the CB
                trunk as I
                > could without bumping into it when changing from one tack to the other.
                > Sure not the most comfortable boat to either sail or row, but light
                enough
                > to carry on the luggage rack on my car, even can load it from a curb
                to the top
                > of a Jeep Cherokee (would not like to try to put it on top of a Ford
                > Explorer!) Loads up on our Toyota Rav4 with little work and rides
                fine up there.
                >
                > I don't see how you could sit high enough to be hit by a block at
                the end of
                > the spirit boom as the boom is well above your head in normal
                seating on the
                > bottom of the boat (I had a life float I sat on to spare my rear end
                from the
                > wood)
                >
                > The only real problem I has was that it was really difficult to see
                to the
                > lee side through that sail; almost had some collisions tacking back
                to my site
                > down a channel lined with yachts.
                >
                >
                >
                > Bolger, Payson Car topper
                > 14-9 foot Swifty
                > John Meacham
                >
                >
                >
                > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the
                all-new AOL at
                > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • John Kohnen
                Try using two sheets, like a jib. Put turning blocks for the sheets where the hooks are. That s the way the spritsail on my skiff is rigged, and it works
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 12, 2007
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                  Try using two sheets, like a jib. Put turning blocks for the sheets where
                  the "hooks" are. That's the way the spritsail on my skiff is rigged, and
                  it works great. You just let go of one sheet and grab the other when you
                  tack.

                  There are advantages to having a boom when the wind is aft, but a boom
                  adds complexity and doesn't really help when reaching or close-hauled. You
                  know why they call it a "boom" don't you? I saw an older fellow at our
                  local yacht club all kitted out to sail his Finn, with color matched
                  Spandex duds, PFD, sailing gloves, and even a helmet -- in case the boom
                  decided to live up to its name. ;o)

                  On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:23:55 -0700, r wrote:

                  > I have the spritsail not the leg-o-mutton.
                  >
                  > The hooks are "designed" for the sail I have.
                  > ...

                  --
                  John <jkohnen@...>
                  History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in
                  times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant
                  to endure. <Thurgood Marshall>
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