Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Cartopper review

Expand Messages
  • chebacco_30
    I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake Berryessa. I am quite
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
      sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
      Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
      hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
      suggestions are welcome.

      My gripes:

      1. The boat rows nicely with just myself in it. With a passenger there
      is no way to trim the boat properly. If the passenger sits in the
      stern the boat takes a decided bow-up posture. The rower cannot sit
      any further forward because of the centerboard case. If the passenger
      sits forward then the boat has a decided bow-down posture. The rower
      cannot move aft to balance the boat as there is no room for his legs.

      2. Sailing is very uncomfortable. There is no position that I have
      found where I can sit holding the tiller and sheet without having my
      tiller arm about three-quarters twisted behind my back. One is forced
      to sit in the center of the boat because the boat is so tender. I sat
      for a while with my back against the windward gunwale which seemed
      quite comfy until the wind died resulting in a near capsize to
      windward. The only position I have found that eliminates the
      arm-twisting is facing aft which results in neck-twisting to see
      forward. Pick your poison.

      3. I have the sprit sail which is loose-footed. The sheet is led aft
      from the clew to wooden hooks on the gunwale. When close-hauled the
      force on the sheet is so high that I am barely able to maintain my
      grip - I'll add here that I am a 2 meters tall, weigh 100 kg and work
      with my hands. It is beyond me how the average person would be able to
      maintain the tension on the sheet that is necessary. I thought of
      putting a purchase on the sheet but that would entail having a block
      on the clew - no way am I going to risk getting slapped in the face
      with that.

      4. Tacking is always messy. When you come about with this boat you
      have to move the sheet to the new leeward hook. The hooks are mounted
      just forward of the transom and are not within reach from the proper
      seating position. So, you have to clamber aft to move sheet while the
      clew of the sail is wildly whipping back and forth. Most times it took
      a couple of tries to do this as the whipping sail would often flip the
      sheet off the hook.

      Romayne
    • Bruce Hallman
      ... Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to shore. Plus is
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        On 9/4/07, chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
        > sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
        > Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
        > hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
        > suggestions are welcome.

        Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds
        there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
        shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
        day.

        On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
        dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
        not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
        You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
        hull.

        To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
        might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
        can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
        a Gypsy.

        Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
        might be interesting.

        http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
      • chebacco_30
        Hi Bruce, My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the leg-o-mutton sail. I found Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without grave
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Bruce,

          My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the "leg-o-mutton" sail. I found
          Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without
          grave discomfort. I thought the Cartopper would be merely shortened
          version. Maybe I need to build another Gypsy.

          Romayne

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
          >
          > On 9/4/07, chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
          > > sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
          > > Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
          > > hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
          > > suggestions are welcome.
          >
          > Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds
          > there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
          > shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
          > day.
          >
          > On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
          > dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
          > not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
          > You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
          > hull.
          >
          > To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
          > might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
          > can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
          > a Gypsy.
          >
          > Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
          > might be interesting.
          >
          > http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
          >
        • Bruce Hallman
          If you consider your Cartopper drastically flawed, you might explore cutting out the centerboard trunk, and go with a leeboard which would fix your trim
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            If you consider your Cartopper drastically flawed, you might explore
            cutting out the centerboard trunk, and go with a leeboard which would
            fix your 'trim' while rowing two problem.
          • Rick Bedard
            Go to the CA Delta Messabout photo group; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CA_Delta_Messabout/ Look in the photo section under the April 2004 folder and see
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 4, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Go to the CA Delta Messabout photo group;

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CA_Delta_Messabout/

              Look in the photo section under the April 2004 folder and see photos of two Cartoppers under sail. Early spring Delta conditions, cold water, cool strong blustery breeze, a narrow channel, and a current running as much as four knots. John O'Neil is the builder of both and sailor of one. Quite a few people either went for a ride, row or solo sail in John's Cartopper that day. They seemed to be having a blast, (I took the photos from my Microtrawler), and I don't recall any problems with seating or sailing. Of course, I can say for sure John is a much better sailor than I ever will be... He was full of stories of sailing in Sasuin Bay (spelling?), if you know that bit of the Bay waters you know it's challenging for a small daysailer. He also took lots of his time to explain the set-up on his boat to anyone interested.

              If you post a message on that site perhaps John will reply. He lives somewhere in striking distance of you. Maybe a messabout at Berryessa would give you a chance to compare gear and sailing techniques. I don't think John reads the Bolger Group. He also posted at least one article with photos about his Cartopper set-up on Duckworks. Have a look there.

              Then again, if Cartopper is not the boat for you, let me know if you are interested in selling, or maybe trading? Any interest in a very nicely built, stitch and glued Teal?

              Rick

              chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote: Hi Bruce,

              My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the "leg-o-mutton" sail. I found
              Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without
              grave discomfort. I thought the Cartopper would be merely shortened
              version. Maybe I need to build another Gypsy.

              Romayne

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman"
              wrote:
              >
              > On 9/4/07, chebacco_30 wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
              > > sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
              > > Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
              > > hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
              > > suggestions are welcome.
              >
              > Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds
              > there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
              > shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
              > day.
              >
              > On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
              > dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
              > not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
              > You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
              > hull.
              >
              > To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
              > might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
              > can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
              > a Gypsy.
              >
              > Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
              > might be interesting.
              >
              > http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
              >




              Bolger rules!!!
              - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
              - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
              - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
              - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
              - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              Yahoo! Groups Links






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • catboat15@aol.com
              I have built and sailed, rowed and puttered around with a small outboard and I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one right now.)
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 5, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                I have built and sailed, rowed and puttered around with a small outboard and
                I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one right now.)

                Forget about those hooks for looping the sheet. I think they were added for
                the optional sail plan. What I did with mine was to add a block to the clew at
                the end of the spirit boom. Added a rope horse across the transom. The main
                sheet had a clip that hooked to the horse; up to the block then to an eye
                bolt on top of the tiller where it is hinged to the rudder, this allowed me to
                hold the sheet with the same hand as on the tiller. Since the skipper is
                sitting on the bottom of the boat I added a rope across the hull from side to
                side to grab and pull myself to the windward side when tacking. The seat is
                used only for rowing and is loose to slide around on the floor boards to adjust
                for the rowing position. The plans show two sets of "foot braces" one set
                when rowing solo and the other set when loaded with a passenger..
                I have been dumped into the drink, but my own fault since I was sitting on
                the sheet and could not let it fly when the wind came over the other quarter
                (sailing on a lake where the wind goes funny directions through the hills
                surrounding the lake.) When I sailed with a passenger they usually sat opposite
                me and slightly towards the stern while I sat as close to the CB trunk as I
                could without bumping into it when changing from one tack to the other.
                Sure not the most comfortable boat to either sail or row, but light enough
                to carry on the luggage rack on my car, even can load it from a curb to the top
                of a Jeep Cherokee (would not like to try to put it on top of a Ford
                Explorer!) Loads up on our Toyota Rav4 with little work and rides fine up there.

                I don't see how you could sit high enough to be hit by a block at the end of
                the spirit boom as the boom is well above your head in normal seating on the
                bottom of the boat (I had a life float I sat on to spare my rear end from the
                wood)

                The only real problem I has was that it was really difficult to see to the
                lee side through that sail; almost had some collisions tacking back to my site
                down a channel lined with yachts.



                Bolger, Payson Car topper
                14-9 foot Swifty
                John Meacham



                ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
                http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • chebacco_30
                I have the spritsail not the leg-o-mutton. The hooks are designed for the sail I have. However, I think I have found a rather simple solution after seeing
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 5, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  I have the spritsail not the leg-o-mutton.

                  The hooks are "designed" for the sail I have. However, I think I have
                  found a rather simple solution after seeing this photo of Optis on
                  Sailing Anarchy

                  http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2007/images/mine%27s%20the%20white%20one.jpg

                  I think I'm going to make myself a boom and quit complaining.

                  r

                  ps: I don't know how to add a link, but if you copy and paste...

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, catboat15@... wrote:

                  >
                  > I have built and sailed, rowed and puttered around with a small
                  outboard and
                  > I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one
                  right now.)
                  >
                  > Forget about those hooks for looping the sheet. I think they were
                  added for
                  > the optional sail plan. What I did with mine was to add a block to
                  the clew at
                  > the end of the spirit boom. Added a rope horse across the transom.
                  The main
                  > sheet had a clip that hooked to the horse; up to the block then to
                  an eye
                  > bolt on top of the tiller where it is hinged to the rudder, this
                  allowed me to
                  > hold the sheet with the same hand as on the tiller. Since the
                  skipper is
                  > sitting on the bottom of the boat I added a rope across the hull
                  from side to
                  > side to grab and pull myself to the windward side when tacking.
                  The seat is
                  > used only for rowing and is loose to slide around on the floor
                  boards to adjust
                  > for the rowing position. The plans show two sets of "foot braces"
                  one set
                  > when rowing solo and the other set when loaded with a passenger..
                  > I have been dumped into the drink, but my own fault since I was
                  sitting on
                  > the sheet and could not let it fly when the wind came over the other
                  quarter
                  > (sailing on a lake where the wind goes funny directions through the
                  hills
                  > surrounding the lake.) When I sailed with a passenger they usually
                  sat opposite
                  > me and slightly towards the stern while I sat as close to the CB
                  trunk as I
                  > could without bumping into it when changing from one tack to the other.
                  > Sure not the most comfortable boat to either sail or row, but light
                  enough
                  > to carry on the luggage rack on my car, even can load it from a curb
                  to the top
                  > of a Jeep Cherokee (would not like to try to put it on top of a Ford
                  > Explorer!) Loads up on our Toyota Rav4 with little work and rides
                  fine up there.
                  >
                  > I don't see how you could sit high enough to be hit by a block at
                  the end of
                  > the spirit boom as the boom is well above your head in normal
                  seating on the
                  > bottom of the boat (I had a life float I sat on to spare my rear end
                  from the
                  > wood)
                  >
                  > The only real problem I has was that it was really difficult to see
                  to the
                  > lee side through that sail; almost had some collisions tacking back
                  to my site
                  > down a channel lined with yachts.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Bolger, Payson Car topper
                  > 14-9 foot Swifty
                  > John Meacham
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the
                  all-new AOL at
                  > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • John Kohnen
                  Try using two sheets, like a jib. Put turning blocks for the sheets where the hooks are. That s the way the spritsail on my skiff is rigged, and it works
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 12, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Try using two sheets, like a jib. Put turning blocks for the sheets where
                    the "hooks" are. That's the way the spritsail on my skiff is rigged, and
                    it works great. You just let go of one sheet and grab the other when you
                    tack.

                    There are advantages to having a boom when the wind is aft, but a boom
                    adds complexity and doesn't really help when reaching or close-hauled. You
                    know why they call it a "boom" don't you? I saw an older fellow at our
                    local yacht club all kitted out to sail his Finn, with color matched
                    Spandex duds, PFD, sailing gloves, and even a helmet -- in case the boom
                    decided to live up to its name. ;o)

                    On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:23:55 -0700, r wrote:

                    > I have the spritsail not the leg-o-mutton.
                    >
                    > The hooks are "designed" for the sail I have.
                    > ...

                    --
                    John <jkohnen@...>
                    History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in
                    times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant
                    to endure. <Thurgood Marshall>
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.