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4 Person Dinghy

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  • keelbolts
    Hi, This my first post here. I ve appreciated Mr. Bolger s design philosophy for years so, now that I m looking to build a 4 person dingy, I thought of his
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
      Hi,
      This my first post here. I've appreciated Mr. Bolger's design
      philosophy for years so, now that I'm looking to build a 4 person
      dingy, I thought of his work. Can you recommend a Bolger dinghy that
      would row reasonably well and carry 4 people. Thanks.
    • GarthAB
      Reubens Nymph seems like a natural for you. As Dynamite Payosn s site says, Easily takes four adults with dunnage. http://www.instantboats.com/rnymph.htm Jim
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
        Reubens Nymph seems like a natural for you. As Dynamite Payosn's site
        says, "Easily takes four adults with dunnage."

        http://www.instantboats.com/rnymph.htm

        Jim Michalak's Vole has similar dimensions, but is primarily a sailing
        dinghy. I modified one to row and sail (made the mast partner
        removable so I could access a useful front seat). You could install
        better seats for your needs if you want a pure rowing boat.

        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/vole/index.htm

        Good luck!

        Garth



        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "keelbolts" <keelbolts@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        > This my first post here. I've appreciated Mr. Bolger's design
        > philosophy for years so, now that I'm looking to build a 4 person
        > dingy, I thought of his work. Can you recommend a Bolger dinghy that
        > would row reasonably well and carry 4 people. Thanks.
        >
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... A Brick is about the right size. I have carried six people, (including 4 teenage girls) in my Cartoon 5, and that is more than there are seats, but not
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
          On 9/3/07, keelbolts <keelbolts@...> wrote:

          > Hi,
          > This my first post here. I've appreciated Mr. Bolger's design
          > philosophy for years so, now that I'm looking to build a 4 person
          > dingy, I thought of his work. Can you recommend a Bolger dinghy that
          > would row reasonably well and carry 4 people. Thanks.

          A Brick is about the right size. I have carried six people,
          (including 4 teenage girls) in my Cartoon 5, and that is more than
          there are seats, but not more than there is freeboard.
        • dnjost
          My vote is for June Bug. I don t know of any design that more efficiently uses sheets of ply more efficiently to produce such a great load carrier that rows
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
            My vote is for June Bug. I don't know of any design that more
            efficiently uses sheets of ply more efficiently to produce such a great
            load carrier that rows well.

            (Was going to start mine today, but went fishing in the POinty Skiff
            instead.)

            David Jost, Boat Brat
          • Sam Glasscock
            I recently posed the same question to Mr. Boger: he recommended June Bug. Sam ...
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
              I recently posed the same question to Mr. Boger: he
              recommended June Bug. Sam
              --- keelbolts <keelbolts@...> wrote:

              > Hi,
              > This my first post here. I've appreciated Mr.
              > Bolger's design
              > philosophy for years so, now that I'm looking to
              > build a 4 person
              > dingy, I thought of his work. Can you recommend a
              > Bolger dinghy that
              > would row reasonably well and carry 4 people.
              > Thanks.
              >
              >



              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
              http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
            • michaelmickjoseph
              --I doubt Jung Bug is the boat you want. Nice boat but I cannot say it is a boat to carry four people with any degree of comfort. I have just written to Mr.
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 9, 2007
                --I doubt Jung Bug is the boat you want. Nice boat but I cannot say
                it is a boat to carry four people with any degree of comfort. I have
                just written to Mr. Bolger and posed the same question. I hope he
                don't tell me that....I was hoping (as I cannot find a list of his
                plans) for a design along the lines of Rubens Nymph only larger. A
                large pram or punt. 12-14ft. If I hear "June Bug" I'm gonna skip over
                and build the 15ft fishermans punt from Hannu...




                - In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I recently posed the same question to Mr. Boger: he
                > recommended June Bug. Sam
                > --- keelbolts <keelbolts@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Hi,
                > > This my first post here. I've appreciated Mr.
                > > Bolger's design
                > > philosophy for years so, now that I'm looking to
                > > build a 4 person
                > > dingy, I thought of his work. Can you recommend a
                > > Bolger dinghy that
                > > would row reasonably well and carry 4 people.
                > > Thanks.
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                ______________________________________________________________________
                ______________
                > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
                vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
                > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
                >
              • graeme19121984
                ... The reference to REUBENS NYMPH #516 (the revised wider NYMPH #425), and recent comments about MICRO #422 packing crate design come coincidently just
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 9, 2007
                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "michaelmickjoseph"
                  > <michaelmickjoseph@...> wrote:
                  > ... I was hoping (as I cannot find a list of his plans) for a
                  > design along the lines of Rubens Nymph only larger. A large pram
                  > or punt. 12-14ft. If I hear "June Bug" I'm gonna skip over and
                  > build the 15ft fishermans punt from Hannu...


                  The reference to REUBENS NYMPH #516 (the revised wider NYMPH #425),
                  and recent comments about MICRO #422 "packing crate" design come
                  coincidently just after I chased down what details I could about a
                  MAIB reference I'd seen to this "NYMPH CUBED #527" design.

                  Apparently an 11ft concept of a coastal cruising version of a NYMPH
                  dinghy was also looked at. Who knows, it, or similar, may be
                  available as a plan by now (There's been time for reflection - see
                  below). My impression is that it was a smaller, more simply built
                  iteration of the JAPANESE BEACHCRUISER #522 design with a cuddy,
                  which would row better in the conventional manner.

                  I haven't been able to find out much (= zilch) about NYMPH CUBED
                  which is what I think may be a multi-chine seaworthy MICRO
                  equivalent, or better. The MAIB article may have some discussion and
                  drawings, but all I've found of that article deals with the 11-
                  footer concept and not the 15'6" plan. I guess the PB&F article must
                  be wide ranging, and cover all the ins and outs of what could be
                  done with the NYMPH shape, and to what extent.

                  Anyway, you're interested in a REUBENS NYMPH type pram of 12-14ft,
                  so here's a bit about an 11-footer:

                  I got only 2 archive search returns for the "527". An 11footer is
                  mentioned with cuddy and coastal cruising ability in the pasted text
                  below:
                  -----------------------------------------------------------

                  "...Ask for MAIB Volume 18, #2; June 1, 2000. Or contact PB&F.

                  "Nymph Cubed"
                  Design #527
                  15'6" x 7'0" x 10'6"
                  1800 pounds displacement


                  >From the text:

                  We got out a set of lines and offsets and expansions of all the
                  panels...

                  > At this point we had begun to have misgivings about it. It had
                  begun to look
                  like a long job to finish after the basic assembly; the old story,
                  that a bare
                  hull looks deceptively like a boat, that has trapped a lot of
                  people, including
                  some who should have known better. The ergonomics of the cuddy were
                  unsatisfactory. And given the prejudice against pram bows in
                  anything but
                  tenders, and the unfamiliarity of the lateen rig, it seemed likely
                  to be a hard
                  sell regardless of its merits. We put it aside for reflection.
                  >
                  > It would have been a highly respectable sailer of its class. No
                  boat eleven
                  feet on the water line is going to sail very fast, but it would have
                  felt
                  spirited and been handy. It would have looked neat and ship-shape
                  under sail
                  since it was laid out in such a way that two people could sit on the
                  weather
                  side without spoiling her fore-and-aft trim. It would have carried
                  enough
                  ballast to carry sail very well. Its too low sided to have a
                  seagoing range of
                  stability, though the high bilge and low rig would have made it
                  forgiving enough
                  for fine weather coastal cruising. For that matter, much worse
                  seaboats have
                  crossed oceans, with luck and skill...

                  >(>>>>
                  >>>>>>)
                  > Noisy at anchor...
                  > Dry out nicely upright on mud...
                  > Only3/8" planking; steel shoe a good idea...
                  >
                  > There is no place to get really comfortable in the tiny cuddy and
                  it would be
                  bound to be damp with drip from the hatch.
                  >
                  > This is one of those designs that is good fun on paper, especially
                  for the
                  very young, not good value in reality..."

                  (pasted here from back at the thread "Re: 2x scale Nymph", Message
                  #34894 of March 6, 2004, Mark. Originally pasted from MAIB, I think.)
                  -----------------------------------------------------------------

                  Is this 11-footer a possible contender from the Bolger stable that
                  fits in a niche alongside Matt Layden's remarkably able and small
                  SAND FLEA from the Florida Everglades Challenge earlier this year?
                  I'd like a mighty little coastal cruiser like that, has PB&F
                  others? Have PB&F "reflected"?

                  Graeme
                • graeme19121984
                  So, does anyone know more about this cubed design? I know from that earlier post: Nymph Cubed Design #527 15 6 x 7 0 x 10 6 1800 pounds displacement,
                  Message 8 of 24 , Sep 9, 2007
                    So, does anyone know more about this "cubed" design?

                    I "know" from that earlier post:

                    "Nymph Cubed"
                    Design #527
                    15'6" x 7'0" x 10'6"
                    1800 pounds displacement,

                    and further from the design list and MAIB index:

                    Pocket Cruiser - Ref: MAIB V#18No 2.

                    That's it! Wow, there must be more...

                    If the 11-footer concept is better, as claimed, than some other
                    boats that have crossed oceans then this 15'6" boat must be
                    something!

                    Is it like a pram cross between MICRO and CATFISH. Is it ballasted
                    or does it go with the light "no-lead melting" alternative of multi-
                    chine CATFISH/CHEBACCO.

                    Should that 10'6" read 1'6" for draft. Is that draft salient keel,
                    or rockered bottom only?

                    Is it like in-shore low-tension cruising CATFISH or off-shore no-
                    worries MICRO?

                    Has anyone seen it in the wild? Does anyone know what it looked like
                    from the MAIB article?

                    Wow, NYMPH... CUBED. Big lateen rig?

                    Graeme
                  • Harry James
                    Found it, scanned it if you want a copy, only one page. HJ
                    Message 9 of 24 , Sep 9, 2007
                      Found it, scanned it if you want a copy, only one page.

                      HJ

                      graeme19121984 wrote:
                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "michaelmickjoseph"
                      >
                      >> <michaelmickjoseph@...> wrote:
                      >> ... I was hoping (as I cannot find a list of his plans) for a
                      >> design along the lines of Rubens Nymph only larger. A large pram
                      >> or punt. 12-14ft. If I hear "June Bug" I'm gonna skip over and
                      >> build the 15ft fishermans punt from Hannu...
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > The reference to REUBENS NYMPH #516 (the revised wider NYMPH #425),
                      > and recent comments about MICRO #422 "packing crate" design come
                      > coincidently just after I chased down what details I could about a
                      > MAIB reference I'd seen to this "NYMPH CUBED #527" design.
                      >
                      > Apparently an 11ft concept of a coastal cruising version of a NYMPH
                      > dinghy was also looked at. Who knows, it, or similar, may be
                      > available as a plan by now (There's been time for reflection - see
                      > below). My impression is that it was a smaller, more simply built
                      > iteration of the JAPANESE BEACHCRUISER #522 design with a cuddy,
                      > which would row better in the conventional manner.
                      >
                      > I haven't been able to find out much (= zilch) about NYMPH CUBED
                      > which is what I think may be a multi-chine seaworthy MICRO
                      > equivalent, or better. The MAIB article may have some discussion and
                      > drawings, but all I've found of that article deals with the 11-
                      > footer concept and not the 15'6" plan. I guess the PB&F article must
                      > be wide ranging, and cover all the ins and outs of what could be
                      > done with the NYMPH shape, and to what extent.
                      >
                      > Anyway, you're interested in a REUBENS NYMPH type pram of 12-14ft,
                      > so here's a bit about an 11-footer:
                      >
                      > I got only 2 archive search returns for the "527". An 11footer is
                      > mentioned with cuddy and coastal cruising ability in the pasted text
                      > below:
                      > -----------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      > "...Ask for MAIB Volume 18, #2; June 1, 2000. Or contact PB&F.
                      >
                      > "Nymph Cubed"
                      > Design #527
                      > 15'6" x 7'0" x 10'6"
                      > 1800 pounds displacement
                      >
                      >
                      > >From the text:
                      >
                      > We got out a set of lines and offsets and expansions of all the
                      > panels...
                      >
                      >
                      >> At this point we had begun to have misgivings about it. It had
                      >>
                      > begun to look
                      > like a long job to finish after the basic assembly; the old story,
                      > that a bare
                      > hull looks deceptively like a boat, that has trapped a lot of
                      > people, including
                      > some who should have known better. The ergonomics of the cuddy were
                      > unsatisfactory. And given the prejudice against pram bows in
                      > anything but
                      > tenders, and the unfamiliarity of the lateen rig, it seemed likely
                      > to be a hard
                      > sell regardless of its merits. We put it aside for reflection.
                      >
                      >> It would have been a highly respectable sailer of its class. No
                      >>
                      > boat eleven
                      > feet on the water line is going to sail very fast, but it would have
                      > felt
                      > spirited and been handy. It would have looked neat and ship-shape
                      > under sail
                      > since it was laid out in such a way that two people could sit on the
                      > weather
                      > side without spoiling her fore-and-aft trim. It would have carried
                      > enough
                      > ballast to carry sail very well. Its too low sided to have a
                      > seagoing range of
                      > stability, though the high bilge and low rig would have made it
                      > forgiving enough
                      > for fine weather coastal cruising. For that matter, much worse
                      > seaboats have
                      > crossed oceans, with luck and skill...
                      >
                      >
                      >> (>>>>
                      >>
                      >>>>>>> )
                      >>>>>>>
                      >> Noisy at anchor...
                      >> Dry out nicely upright on mud...
                      >> Only3/8" planking; steel shoe a good idea...
                      >>
                      >> There is no place to get really comfortable in the tiny cuddy and
                      >>
                      > it would be
                      > bound to be damp with drip from the hatch.
                      >
                      >> This is one of those designs that is good fun on paper, especially
                      >>
                      > for the
                      > very young, not good value in reality..."
                      >
                      > (pasted here from back at the thread "Re: 2x scale Nymph", Message
                      > #34894 of March 6, 2004, Mark. Originally pasted from MAIB, I think.)
                      > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Is this 11-footer a possible contender from the Bolger stable that
                      > fits in a niche alongside Matt Layden's remarkably able and small
                      > SAND FLEA from the Florida Everglades Challenge earlier this year?
                      > I'd like a mighty little coastal cruiser like that, has PB&F
                      > others? Have PB&F "reflected"?
                      >
                      > Graeme
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • graeme19121984
                      Harry, thanks very much. Could you please send it to my personal contact email address as listed to the right? Hmmm.... I thought more than one page would be
                      Message 10 of 24 , Sep 9, 2007
                        Harry,

                        thanks very much. Could you please send it to my personal contact
                        email address as listed to the right?

                        Hmmm.... I thought more than one page would be needed, but then I
                        guess the articles are meant mainly to raise interest.

                        Thanks again. What do you think of it?

                        Graeme



                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Found it, scanned it if you want a copy, only one page.
                        >
                        > HJ
                      • Kristine Bennett
                        I would like to see the scan of the Nymph Cubed. Sounds like an intersting boat. Blessings Krissie Harry James wrote:
                        Message 11 of 24 , Sep 9, 2007
                          I would like to see the scan of the Nymph Cubed. Sounds like an intersting boat.

                          Blessings Krissie

                          Harry James <welshman@...> wrote: Found it, scanned it if you want a copy, only one page.

                          HJ

                          graeme19121984 wrote:
                          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "michaelmickjoseph"
                          >
                          >> <michaelmickjoseph@...> wrote:
                          >> ... I was hoping (as I cannot find a list of his plans) for a
                          >> design along the lines of Rubens Nymph only larger. A large pram
                          >> or punt. 12-14ft. If I hear "June Bug" I'm gonna skip over and
                          >> build the 15ft fishermans punt from Hannu...
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          > The reference to REUBENS NYMPH #516 (the revised wider NYMPH #425),
                          > and recent comments about MICRO #422 "packing crate" design come
                          > coincidently just after I chased down what details I could about a
                          > MAIB reference I'd seen to this "NYMPH CUBED #527" design.
                          >
                          >






                          ---------------------------------
                          Building a website is a piece of cake.
                          Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • adventures_in_astrophotography
                          ... intersting boat. Same here. How about uploading it to the cartoons or study plans group files sections? Jon Kolb
                          Message 12 of 24 , Sep 10, 2007
                            > I would like to see the scan of the Nymph Cubed. Sounds like an
                            intersting boat.

                            Same here. How about uploading it to the cartoons or study plans
                            group files sections?

                            Jon Kolb
                            www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
                          • Stefan Probst
                            ... May I second that motion? Cheers, Stefan
                            Message 13 of 24 , Sep 10, 2007
                              --- "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
                              > Same here. How about uploading it to the cartoons or study plans
                              > group files sections?

                              May I second that motion?

                              Cheers,
                              Stefan
                            • Ron Magen
                              ... graeme19121984 ... SNIP ... MICRO #422 . . .{came}just after I chased down what details I could about a MAIB reference I d seen to this NYMPH CUBED #527
                              Message 14 of 24 , Sep 10, 2007
                                > 6b. NYMPH CUBED #527 (was: "Re: 4 Person Dinghy")
                                > Posted by: "graeme19121984" graeme19121984@...
                                graeme19121984
                                > Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

                                SNIP
                                > The reference to REUBENS NYMPH #516 . . .and recent comments about
                                MICRO #422 . . .{came}just after I chased down what details I could
                                about a MAIB reference I'd seen to this "NYMPH CUBED #527" design.
                                > SNIP
                                . . . it, . . .may be available as a plan by now (There's been time for
                                reflection . . .
                                SNIP

                                Graeme, et al . . .
                                One of my first 'builds' was a RUBENS {NOTE - Was going to be a
                                'standard' Nymph, but thought better of it and exchanged the plans}.
                                Since then I've felt an affinity to the design form. Anyhow, when I saw
                                mention of the 'CUBED' version - my interest was peaked.

                                When the MAIB reference was the only info available, I wrote to Phil.
                                The following is a quote from his response . . .
                                ' I did quite a bit of work on a 2-to-1 scale-up of Nymph . . .
                                I eventually concluded that the design WASN'T good value in a NUMBER
                                of ways, and dropped it'

                                He enclosed plans for an update of CAMPER # 640 {MAIB article dated NOV'
                                95 -original design reference about FEB 1997}. ". . .a design that I
                                think does give value for an equivalent effort".

                                This, I think, is the definitive answer.

                                As this design had no resemblance to the 'Nymph hull form' plus was not
                                applicable to my 'type' of building, I dropped it as well.


                                Regards,
                                Ron Magen
                                Backyard Boatshop
                              • Bruce Hallman
                                http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1356431720/ shows an isometric rendering of Phil Bolger s Nymph Cubed. I sure like the Lateen rig, having used one similar on
                                Message 15 of 24 , Sep 10, 2007
                                  http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1356431720/

                                  shows an isometric rendering of Phil Bolger's Nymph Cubed. I sure like the
                                  Lateen rig, having used one similar on the Tortoise


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Clyde Wisner
                                  Right as usual, Bruce. I ve been getting MAIB for a number of years and I think I read them. I don t remember Nymph Cubed. It s a nice sized, multichined
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Sep 10, 2007
                                    Right as usual, Bruce. I"ve been getting MAIB for a number of years and
                                    I think I read them. I don't remember Nymph Cubed. It's a nice sized,
                                    multichined sailer which I think will stand rougher water better. Does
                                    anybody know what the plans cost? Clyde


                                    Bruce Hallman wrote:

                                    > http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1356431720/
                                    > <http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1356431720/>
                                    >
                                    > shows an isometric rendering of Phil Bolger's Nymph Cubed. I sure like the
                                    > Lateen rig, having used one similar on the Tortoise
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Bruce Hallman
                                    ... (Guessing...) It looks like you can reef by bunching up the lower edge of the sail and then retie the mainsheet to the new clew point. I am guessing you
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Sep 10, 2007
                                      On 9/10/07, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Anybody got a step by step on reefing this? The reef points show on the
                                      > scan I sent you but I can't work out a jiffy reefing system in my head.
                                      >
                                      > HJ

                                      (Guessing...) It looks like you can reef by bunching up the lower edge
                                      of the sail and then retie the mainsheet to the new clew point. I am
                                      guessing you would also ease off of the halyard too, to lower the sail
                                      center.) Also, I see two brail lines, which would allow you to
                                      collapse the head of the sail in a jiffy without fulling dropping the
                                      yard (I am guessing, to allow you to douse sail during a squall or
                                      when hove to.)
                                    • Harry James
                                      Anybody got a step by step on reefing this? The reef points show on the scan I sent you but I can t work out a jiffy reefing system in my head. HJ
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Sep 10, 2007
                                        Anybody got a step by step on reefing this? The reef points show on the
                                        scan I sent you but I can't work out a jiffy reefing system in my head.

                                        HJ

                                        Bruce Hallman wrote:
                                        > http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1356431720/
                                        >
                                        > shows an isometric rendering of Phil Bolger's Nymph Cubed. I sure like the
                                        > Lateen rig, having used one similar on the Tortoise
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Stefan Probst
                                        ... No plans available, since Bolger didn t make a final design. He thinks it is not worth it. One reason being a small cabin, others an unusual design (Pram
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Sep 10, 2007
                                          --- Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
                                          > anybody know what the plans cost? Clyde

                                          No plans available, since Bolger didn't make a final design. He thinks
                                          it is not worth it. One reason being a small cabin, others an unusual
                                          design (Pram bow), an unfamiliar rig etc.

                                          Stefan
                                        • Stefan Probst
                                          ... With Harry s friendly permission: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/Nymph Cubed #527/ Stefan
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Sep 10, 2007
                                            --- Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Found it, scanned it if you want a copy, only one page.

                                            With Harry's friendly permission:
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/Nymph
                                            Cubed #527/

                                            Stefan
                                          • graeme19121984
                                            Ron - thanks for that additional insight into the designers thinking, and your own. But. Hey, everyone loves OTTER, yet PCB wished he could get all the plans
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Sep 14, 2007
                                              Ron - thanks for that additional insight into the designers'
                                              thinking, and your own.

                                              But. Hey, everyone loves OTTER, yet PCB wished he could get all the
                                              plans back! So hold on folks, not so fast. PB&F can pull this
                                              design, it has not been published, but ya's don't have to agree.

                                              Why'd they bury it when most of the comment in their MAIB article is
                                              positive?

                                              It seems the boat is discounted due to some pragmatic finacial
                                              considerations, but not written off on little cruising boat
                                              principles. (There have been other examples of apparent
                                              inconsistency where PCB/PB&F appear to indicate an idea, concept, or
                                              principle at one place which contradicts another expressed
                                              elsewhere.)

                                              I'd say this boat would be wrongly perceived by many to be another
                                              MICRO (one of PCB's self-stated "best efforts"). This likely
                                              widespread conflation would have someone somewhere go beyond the
                                              safe limits of the design, and not only suffer potentially serious
                                              harm themselves, but inflict lasting harm on the reputation of the
                                              designer. I'd say this is one main reason PCB&F are reticent about
                                              endorsing the design fully. Further this design would be in direct
                                              competition with the myriad of other prodution and self-build
                                              designs for centreboard trailer-sailers at this size. This is why
                                              they say it's good fun on paper, but not good value for real. They
                                              don't say the boat is a dog; more of the opposite in fact. (They
                                              recommend CAMPER... In the last several years or so CAMPER has been
                                              recommended when people sought to purchase plans for various
                                              designs.... it seems that there has been a desire to get more
                                              Campers built.... ;-)

                                              One confusion first up is about Nymph Cubed being an unfinished
                                              design. It has a number, and PCB has written a few times that he
                                              allocates a number to a design only when it is finished, and that he
                                              even attaches some importance to the actual number designated. It
                                              may be that some internal fittings design was considered necessary
                                              to help amateur instant builders fit it out, but not done. Internal
                                              fittings are also not done for many other instant type boats,
                                              probably because they are mostly square and the fit out would be
                                              relatively easy for the builder to contrive as compared to the
                                              curves of NYMPH CUBED. It may be that they stopped for other reasons
                                              before completing those final finnicky interior details, and also a
                                              building key. Maybe Dynamite Payson thought it unsuited to market
                                              as "instant" once he saw the finished design less internals. Seems
                                              something similar happened to Storm Petrel... and maybe others...
                                              They say "it began to look like a long job to finish after the first
                                              rush of basic assembly"; not really an Instant Boat... They say "It
                                              would have carried enough ballast to carry sail very well" - would
                                              that have been the fiddly installation details of water ballast?


                                              At first sight I don't like the bilgeboards. They take up internal
                                              space, are fiddly to fit, and PCB also has had issues with them in
                                              the past. They're so small that both have to be down at once when
                                              beating. A single external 6sqft pivoting leeboard (ala Michalak)
                                              would be better for a couple of reasons, and mostly it would not
                                              interfere with the flow along the bilge panel that seems to be the
                                              main reason for the twin bilgeboards.

                                              This boat has measurements so close to Micro that it is really quite
                                              striking: LOA, WLL, SA, Displacement, & etc. I think any bad points
                                              of the design, apart from the marketing ones of the acceptance of
                                              the lateen rig and the pram shape, have already been mentioned by
                                              PB&F in regard to Micro - for example, it's been mentioned that
                                              Micro has bow slap and the berths are damp from companion way drip...

                                              This boat might skull ok. Several other rigs will suit, an outboard
                                              can be fitted, the cabin can be stretched if necessary, the bottom
                                              can be thicker... internals can be added... I'd love to see some
                                              sectioned drawings.

                                              What are those two circular things just off centreline in the aft
                                              cockpit?



                                              Cheers
                                              Graeme




                                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Magen" <quahaug@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > 6b. NYMPH CUBED #527 (was: "Re: 4 Person Dinghy")
                                              > > Posted by: "graeme19121984" graeme19121984@...
                                              > graeme19121984
                                              > > Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))
                                              >
                                              > SNIP
                                              > > The reference to REUBENS NYMPH #516 . . .and recent comments
                                              about
                                              > MICRO #422 . . .{came}just after I chased down what details I could
                                              > about a MAIB reference I'd seen to this "NYMPH CUBED #527" design.
                                              > > SNIP
                                              > . . . it, . . .may be available as a plan by now (There's been
                                              time for
                                              > reflection . . .
                                              > SNIP
                                              >
                                              > Graeme, et al . . .
                                              > One of my first 'builds' was a RUBENS {NOTE - Was going to be a
                                              > 'standard' Nymph, but thought better of it and exchanged the
                                              plans}.
                                              > Since then I've felt an affinity to the design form. Anyhow, when
                                              I saw
                                              > mention of the 'CUBED' version - my interest was peaked.
                                              >
                                              > When the MAIB reference was the only info available, I wrote to
                                              Phil.
                                              > The following is a quote from his response . . .
                                              > ' I did quite a bit of work on a 2-to-1 scale-up of
                                              Nymph . . .
                                              > I eventually concluded that the design WASN'T good value in a
                                              NUMBER
                                              > of ways, and dropped it'
                                              >
                                              > He enclosed plans for an update of CAMPER # 640 {MAIB article
                                              dated NOV'
                                              > 95 -original design reference about FEB 1997}. ". . .a design that
                                              I
                                              > think does give value for an equivalent effort".
                                              >
                                              > This, I think, is the definitive answer.
                                              >
                                              > As this design had no resemblance to the 'Nymph hull form' plus
                                              was not
                                              > applicable to my 'type' of building, I dropped it as well.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Regards,
                                              > Ron Magen
                                              > Backyard Boatshop
                                              >
                                            • adventures_in_astrophotography
                                              Hi Graeme, ... ...snip... It hasn t been the case in the last several years that only finished designs get numbers. A few I know of... #666 Insolent 60 -
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Sep 14, 2007
                                                Hi Graeme,

                                                ...snip...
                                                > One confusion first up is about Nymph Cubed being an unfinished
                                                > design. It has a number, and PCB has written a few times that he
                                                > allocates a number to a design only when it is finished, and that he
                                                > even attaches some importance to the actual number designated.
                                                ...snip...

                                                It hasn't been the case in the last several years that only finished
                                                designs get numbers. A few I know of...

                                                #666 Insolent 60 - unfinished and apparently off the table
                                                #667 - unfinished and apparently superceded by AS34
                                                #668 Auriga - unfinished

                                                #669 Becky Thatcher is completed

                                                I have no idea what's in the range between #670 and #678 Blackliner,
                                                but I assume the navy landing craft, AS34, some powerboat they once
                                                mentioned to me, and the various recent fishing boats must be in that
                                                range or beyond.

                                                Susanne mentioned to me once something about when they decide to give
                                                design a number, but I only remember that being completed was not the
                                                criterion.

                                                Jon Kolb
                                                www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
                                              • graeme19121984
                                                Hi Jon, thanks for putting me straight as the numbering process may have changed lately with all that stuff happening at PB&F. You ve spurred me to go and read
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Sep 14, 2007
                                                  Hi Jon,

                                                  thanks for putting me straight as the numbering process may have
                                                  changed lately with all that stuff happening at PB&F. You've
                                                  spurred me to go and read the preface of _Different Boats_ again.
                                                  It's one place where PCB spelled out his design process.

                                                  It may be that their practice hasn't changed though, and is still as
                                                  it was at that time. I misremembered about the number being given to
                                                  a finished design. It would seem that a number is given to a design
                                                  at the 4th stage when it is decided that it will/can be finished.
                                                  This is after working lines are drawn, and they have been measured
                                                  for offsets.

                                                  Two stages before that the design may be tagged with a name, and
                                                  those sketches and commentary are placed before the client. It is
                                                  here that the potential of the design is assessed as to whether it
                                                  is worthwhile continuing on with it. Have they got their wish? If
                                                  the design is speculative, without a client commission, then I guess
                                                  PCB stands in the shoes of the client.

                                                  Was Nymph Cubed more a speculative design, but with Dynamite Payson
                                                  in mind as the client though not committed? Was it ever really on
                                                  Dynamite's wish list? It may have passed this stage one way or
                                                  another to go on to the working drawings stage and get its
                                                  number "#527".

                                                  I think it must only have been a marketing thing that buried it. All
                                                  the practicalities would have been worked through in developing the
                                                  working drawings up to the numbering 4th stage. They got to that
                                                  stage, put it down for whatever reason, and as things worked out
                                                  never took it up again as they had perhaps wished to. If there's
                                                  working drawings it can be built - builder to loft panels, work out
                                                  own sheet use diagrams etc, and follow the tack and tape method if
                                                  no numbered building key completed.

                                                  Jon, FWIW, this may explain why those later unfinished designs
                                                  including, sadly, your own have been allocated a number.

                                                  Graeme
                                                  JUNE BUG wasn't PCB's wish to commemorate his 4th century of
                                                  numbered design; his WISH turned out worse than he had wished for
                                                  and it bugged him. And so, another wish, the elegant June Bug. I
                                                  think all his wishes may have come true that time.






                                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
                                                  <jon@...> wrote:

                                                  > ..It hasn't been the case in the last several years that only
                                                  > finished....

                                                  > ....Susanne mentioned to me once something about when they decide
                                                  > to give design a number, but I only remember that being completed
                                                  > was not the criterion.
                                                • graeme19121984
                                                  Lateen sail handling? It don t take much. One way - Fishing Dhows of Lake Victoria. Underminimalises (isthattheword?) even Bolger
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Sep 23, 2007
                                                    Lateen sail handling? It don't take much. One way - Fishing Dhows of
                                                    Lake Victoria. Underminimalises (isthattheword?) even Bolger

                                                    http://youtube.com/watch?v=HJpGZtLiq5g

                                                    Graeme

                                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > On 9/10/07, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Anybody got a step by step on reefing this? The reef points show
                                                    on the
                                                    > > scan I sent you but I can't work out a jiffy reefing system in
                                                    my head.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > HJ
                                                    >
                                                    > (Guessing...) It looks like you can reef by bunching up the lower
                                                    edge
                                                    > of the sail and then retie the mainsheet to the new clew point. I
                                                    am
                                                    > guessing you would also ease off of the halyard too, to lower the
                                                    sail
                                                    > center.) Also, I see two brail lines, which would allow you to
                                                    > collapse the head of the sail in a jiffy without fulling dropping
                                                    the
                                                    > yard (I am guessing, to allow you to douse sail during a squall or
                                                    > when hove to.)
                                                    >
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