Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Shorthanded Cruising AS19

Expand Messages
  • Rob Rohde-Szudy
    Weight matters, and I bet Jewelbox is quite a bit lighter that AS19. Michalak tends to design light compared to Bolger, in general. --Rob Re: Shorthanded
    Message 1 of 26 , Aug 1, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Weight matters, and I bet Jewelbox is quite a bit lighter that AS19. Michalak tends to design light compared to Bolger, in general.
      --Rob



      Re: Shorthanded Cruising AS19
      Posted by: "John Kohnen" jhkohnen@... jhkohnen
      Date: Wed Aug 1, 2007 4:10 am ((PDT))

      I'm surprised that AS19 doesn't go faster than 4.4 knots. My Jewelbox,
      Jr.
      with a similar hull shape and much shorter waterline length does better

      than that. <shrug> In fact, I don't believe it (sorry Cabbie). JB,
      Jr's
      "sea of peas" hull gets up to 4.5-4.6 knots easily, but won't go much
      faster than that (though the GPS batteries were dead the day I was
      trying
      her out in mid-20 mph winds). The deep rocker seems to keep her from
      easily pushing past theoretical hull speed. Hull speed for AS19 is
      probably at least 5 knots, and I'd expect her to easily reach that
      speed.

      BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
      4-stroke in calm conditions.




      ---------------------------------
      Building a website is a piece of cake.
      Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • cabbie_caesar
      Gentlemen, I do have to clarify my statement about boat speed: I do not have a GPS or any other speed measuring equipment; I don t even sail with a watch. The
      Message 2 of 26 , Aug 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Gentlemen,

        I do have to clarify my statement about boat speed:

        I do not have a GPS or any other speed measuring equipment; I don't
        even sail with a watch.

        The first year I had the boat I was paced by Don S...on his Pearson
        40 something. He reported 4.4 knots, and after thinking about that
        day, the wind was light. I was sailing on a close reach in smooth
        water on starboard tack; the wind was certainly less than 10 knots,
        but I'm not sure how much less. Don did remark that he was quite
        impressed with my speed in those conditions.

        Regarding the yacht club series, I did hold my own on the off wind
        legs. Of course I did not make up the deficit lost up wind. This is
        by no means a knock about sailing performance, as I am not wanting
        for more (complexity). As to speed under power I assumed that my 4
        hp. motor could reach hull speed; perhaps it did not. It does push
        the boat fast enough that the stern wave will flood the aft well.

        Should I edit my prior post, or will this message be a sufficient
        correction?

        cabbie

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Cabbie,
        >
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@>
        > wrote:
        > > Sorry for the late reply - I've just come off shift and I'm now
        > back
        > > home.
        >
        > mate, not at all. It is I who must say sorry for not responding
        > straight away after reading your wonderful reply yesterday. That's
        a
        > fantastic post about this design and it still leaves me wondering.
        > There is much to consider in what you wrote and... I'm still
        > considering... I'm not sure what to say - the fullness of your
        > appraisal took me by surprise. No doubt once I digest things I'll
        > probably have even more queries... again... sorry.
        >
        > For now: you "ask... why do you want an AS19?" Good question. I
        > detect from your experience with the boat you've seen something in
        > my wants/needs list that doesn't quite accord with selecting this
        > design. I don't know what that is, other than I don't think I can
        > quite have a bigger boat right now. I've read the little previously
        > available on AS19's performance and thought it quite good - you
        > know - speed, handling, etc. I knew there's not a lot of space, but
        > thought for one or two, for a few weeks or so, that would do. It's
        > not an open ocean long distance voyager, but struck me as
        relatively
        > bouyant, and seaworthy, with precautions, in all but the worst of
        > weather. I admit I've been influenced by Chapelle's comments on the
        > coastal sailing garveys here. I like the potential, I suspected, to
        > safely coastwise cruise through the long oceanic swells, crossed
        > with the ability to ably traverse extremely skinny waters. I love
        > the very easy construction, trailerability, gaff furling/reefing
        and
        > scandalizing, and more; was concerned by the freeboard, on watch
        > crew comfort and exposure (hot humid and sun mostly but some winter
        > cold here too), pointing ability, and more too.
        >
        > You wrote "If your primary sailing program involves shoal water
        > sailing, this boat will brilliantly fulfill you needs." Oh,
        there's
        > plenty of that, plenty. Mud flats, sand banks, coral reefs, lakes,
        > rivers, but there also are more open crossings. For example,
        besides
        > coastal cruising, some bays are quite protected and shallow at one
        > end, but the other may be rougher than the ocean coast at times -
        > and those islands do beckon.
        >
        > I would have thought AS19 went faster than 4.4 knots. Is it faster
        > under sail when the hull is heeled? There's a worry :~?
        >
        > "Mike's boat WAS ventilated with a drilled PVC pipe installed
        > between ports cut in the hull sides." Ah-ha, I wondered what that
        > was. Thought it a kind of rack for stretching occy cords between
        to
        > provide gear stowage, or for pegging up wet things to dry!
        >
        > "Bungee the tiller to weather and sheet the mizzen to the desired
        > attitude, the boat will stay as if parked while you prepare the
        main
        > or have lunch." - that's a very desirable quality :-)
        >
        > You've mentioned many other points, good and bad, that require more
        > pondering. Yet I am reassured in my overall original impressions
        > that this boat could do for me.
        >
        > Thanks again for rounding out the knowledge about this design from
        > your first hand experience. Sounds to me like AS19 has provided you
        > with lots of fun and enjoyment. Great.
        >
        > Cheers
        > Graeme
        >
      • graeme19121984
        ... Way to go - tide, sun, sky... Hi Cabbie: Thanks much for the update. I gather from that reaching performance in less than 10 knots that one of the single
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 1, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@...>
          wrote:
          > I don't even sail with a watch.


          Way to go - tide, sun, sky...


          Hi Cabbie:

          Thanks much for the update.

          I gather from that reaching performance in less than 10 knots that
          one of the single luff flat reaching spinnakers that PCB's fond of
          wouldn't add very much to speed, and they're not good close hauled.
          Hmm, even though they look fairly uncomplicated less complexity does
          the job quite acceptably, hey.

          > Should I edit my prior post, or will this message be a sufficient
          > correction?

          My twopence. IMO there's no need to edit your earlier post. If
          people are searching the subject in future they'll at least scan the
          whole thread, I would think.

          Cheers
          Graeme
        • John Kohnen
          Hah! I thought so! You weren t getting the optimum horsepower from the wind when you were clocked. Most people lie about how their boats go _faster_ than
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 2, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hah! I thought so! <g> You weren't getting the optimum horsepower from the
            wind when you were clocked. Most people lie about how their boats go
            _faster_ than they really will. ;o) I've been impressed by how well my
            Jewelbox, Jr. moves in light breezes. In the lightest airs I suspect that
            the high rig (20' 8" mast) catches some of the stronger breeze above the
            friction of the water, and the deep rocker has less surface area, and thus
            skin friction, than a flat-bottom boat with flatter rocker. When the
            breeze gets a little stronger the "sea of peas" shape kicks in and she
            moves along real nice but, in moderate breezes at least, I haven't got her
            past maybe 4.6 knots. <shrug> I'll have to check the batteries in my GPS
            and take her out on a breezy day on the local mudhole (the Thistle
            nationals are being held there this week, and every afternoon the wind has
            been gusting into the mid to high 20 mph range! Probably too much
            excitement in a racing dinghy <g>). My 15' sailing skiff, with a slightly
            longer waterline length and much flatter rocker, has little trouble going
            a little faster than theoretical hull speed (given a good wind, she's
            undercanvased for use on the windy Oregon Coast), but the JB, Jr.
            struggles to get past hull speed...

            A curious thing is how fast Sage goes under power. That 3.5 Tohatsu is
            more power than she _needs_, but she somehow manages to make us of it.
            <shrug> I've never got my skiff to go as fast under power as she'll sail,
            even using a 4 hp. engine, she just wants to dig her stern in... I would
            have expected that the flatter rockered skiff would outdo the heavily
            rockered JB, Jr.

            BTW, I got the Tohatsu because for the same price as a 2 hp. Honda I could
            get an engine with water cooling and a real (dog) clutch. On Sage, a
            cruising boat, the extra weight doesn't matter much.

            On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:49:39 -0700, cabbie wrote:

            > ...
            > I do have to clarify my statement about boat speed:
            >
            > I do not have a GPS or any other speed measuring equipment; I don't
            > even sail with a watch.
            >
            > The first year I had the boat I was paced by Don S...on his Pearson
            > 40 something. He reported 4.4 knots, and after thinking about that
            > day, the wind was light. I was sailing on a close reach in smooth
            > water on starboard tack; the wind was certainly less than 10 knots,
            > but I'm not sure how much less. Don did remark that he was quite
            > impressed with my speed in those conditions.
            > ...

            --
            John <jkohnen@...>
            All the troubles of man come from his not knowing how to sit
            still. <Blaise Pascal>
          • John Kohnen
            Weight matters, but not as much at displacement speeds. It may take less wind to push a JB, Jr. to hull speed than it does to push a heavier AS19 to hull
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 2, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Weight matters, but not as much at displacement speeds. It may take less
              wind to push a JB, Jr. to hull speed than it does to push a heavier AS19
              to hull speed, but unless the AS19 is severely undercanvased it shouldn't
              take a living gale to provide more than enough horsepower to get her
              there. <g>

              On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 07:05:23 -0700, Rob R-S wrote:

              > Weight matters, and I bet Jewelbox is quite a bit lighter that AS19.
              > Michalak tends to design light compared to Bolger, in general.

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in
              times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant
              to endure. <Thurgood Marshall>
            • John Kohnen
              What s really smokin is the almost 7 knots Bob Larkin s Birdwatcher 2 makes with a 2 hp. Honda! Maybe I m misremembering, but the day he first launched her we
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 2, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                What's really smokin' is the almost 7 knots Bob Larkin's Birdwatcher 2
                makes with a 2 hp. Honda! Maybe I'm misremembering, but the day he first
                launched her we had trouble keeping ahead of her in an overloaded Scandal
                skiff with 4 hp. <g>

                http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594264491186/

                On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:53:13 -0700, graeme wrote:

                >> BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
                >> 4-stroke in calm conditions.
                >
                > Gee, that is smokin'

                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
                It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
                <William Pitt>
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.