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Flotation in an open boat (was Re: New web site)

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  • The Peillet-Long Family
    A propos of nothing, looking at these pics (took me a while, had to join the group first and be approved) reminds me that the Eeek!/Anhinga- style double-ended
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 1, 2007
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      A propos of nothing, looking at these pics (took me a while, had to
      join the group first and be approved) reminds me that the Eeek!/Anhinga-
      style double-ended sharpie hull, with rocker forward but not aft, seems
      perfect for a little catamaran. Any thoughts on this from the
      assembled multitudes?

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Have you seen what Gary Lepak developed on his 12ft, cool, creative,
      > newest, BOXY LADY design?
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microcruising/message/13428 Take a
      > look at the linked file of photos.
      >
    • graeme19121984
      Oh, boy. How I ve been scheeming up a long slim hulled EeeK!amaran. Yes! Why wouldn t that work. Not as good a hull shape as some more modern sophisticated
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 1, 2007
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        Oh, boy. How I've been scheeming up a long slim hulled EeeK!amaran.
        Yes! Why wouldn't that work. Not as good a hull shape as some more
        modern sophisticated multhulls. Not as expensive either! The fore
        bottom and sides in accord with Bolger sharpie water flow theory, and
        the aft bottom a power economising "rule cheating" transition zone
        speedster as on the Topaz-Sitka powerboat type. The EeeK!amaran would
        carry enough sail to hit that transition zone, surely - maybe go right
        through it! Not a racing multi, a cruiser and a good one at that! I
        think some modern multi racers may sneer at rooster tails, but, boy, I
        would cheer them. Might as well too as I think you're gunna get 'em.
        Beauties!


        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family" <owlnmole@...>
        wrote:
        > reminds me that the Eeek!/Anhinga-style double-ended sharpie hull,
        > with rocker forward but not aft, seems perfect for a little
        > catamaran. Any thoughts on this from the assembled multitudes?
      • Kenneth Grome
        In what stage of construction is the boat ... and which boat are you building? Sincerely, Ken Grome Bagacay Boatworks www.bagacayboatworks.com
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 1, 2007
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          In what stage of construction is the boat ... and which boat are you
          building?

          Sincerely,
          Ken Grome
          Bagacay Boatworks
          www.bagacayboatworks.com



          > Thanks, Graeme for the compliments.
          >
          > I actually contacted Dave Carnell on the flotation question, but he
          > didn't have any specific advice to offer. I'd rather not clutter up
          > the simple, open boat with bulkheads and decks, so I'd appreciate any
          > suggestions folks might have on simple flotation options.
          >
          > I am considering something like kayak float bags at the bow and
          > transom corners, just to make the boat easier to recover after a
          > capsize. The people will all have life vests. Foam under the
          > partner thwart might help, too.
          >
          > Again, I am trying not to turn the boat into a decked skiff, or else
          > I should be building something else like Storm Petrel, June Bug or
          > one of Jim Michalak's designs. What really appeals to me about
          > Featherwind is all that space and I don't want to give that up.
          >
          > Please, if anyone has any suggestions or experience to share, weigh
          > in.
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > Matthew
        • The Peillet-Long Family
          Ken, As you can see from the Featherwind page at I am gathering materials but have not yet started to build. I have
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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            Ken,

            As you can see from the Featherwind page at
            <http://molepages.googlepages.com> I am gathering materials but have
            not yet started to build. I have previous build Brick, Yellow Leaf,
            June Bug and Tortoise.

            So it would not be a big deal to integrate small changes now. One
            thing I am considering, because I do have epoxy, wood flour and
            fiberglass tape, is adding very small flotation chambers at the bow
            and transom corners, whether by using foam blocks or light plywood
            bulkheads, to add some flotation without loosing the open boat feel.

            Regards,

            Matthew

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > In what stage of construction is the boat ... and which boat are
            you
            > building?
            >
            > Sincerely,
            > Ken Grome
            > Bagacay Boatworks
            > www.bagacayboatworks.com
            >
            >
            >
            > > Thanks, Graeme for the compliments.
            > >
            > > I actually contacted Dave Carnell on the flotation question, but
            he
            > > didn't have any specific advice to offer. I'd rather not clutter
            up
            > > the simple, open boat with bulkheads and decks, so I'd appreciate
            any
            > > suggestions folks might have on simple flotation options.
            > >
            > > I am considering something like kayak float bags at the bow and
            > > transom corners, just to make the boat easier to recover after a
            > > capsize. The people will all have life vests. Foam under the
            > > partner thwart might help, too.
            > >
            > > Again, I am trying not to turn the boat into a decked skiff, or
            else
            > > I should be building something else like Storm Petrel, June Bug or
            > > one of Jim Michalak's designs. What really appeals to me about
            > > Featherwind is all that space and I don't want to give that up.
            > >
            > > Please, if anyone has any suggestions or experience to share,
            weigh
            > > in.
            > >
            > > Cheers,
            > >
            > > Matthew
            >
          • The Peillet-Long Family
            Ah, a kindred spirit... I am on the road and don t have access to my Bolger collection, but as I remember, Bolger prescribed something like 75 lbs ballast to
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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              Ah, a kindred spirit...

              I am on the road and don't have access to my Bolger collection, but
              as I remember, Bolger prescribed something like 75 lbs ballast to get
              stability when sailing. So presumably an Eeek!amaran with stock
              Eeek! hulls would be good for three adults, or two adults and a
              couple of kids. Hmmm, I bet I could work out a simple bridge deck
              from a 4' 8' sheet of plywood and Wharram-style lashed connections
              to the hulls. In fact, the Sunfish sail I was getting for
              Featherwind should be about right for an Eeek!maran.

              Oh no, now look what you've done, here I go in another direction
              again!

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Oh, boy. How I've been scheeming up a long slim hulled EeeK!amaran.
              > Yes! Why wouldn't that work. Not as good a hull shape as some more
              > modern sophisticated multhulls. Not as expensive either! The fore
              > bottom and sides in accord with Bolger sharpie water flow theory,
              and
              > the aft bottom a power economising "rule cheating" transition zone
              > speedster as on the Topaz-Sitka powerboat type. The EeeK!amaran
              would
              > carry enough sail to hit that transition zone, surely - maybe go
              right
              > through it! Not a racing multi, a cruiser and a good one at that! I
              > think some modern multi racers may sneer at rooster tails, but,
              boy, I
              > would cheer them. Might as well too as I think you're gunna
              get 'em.
              > Beauties!
              >
              >
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
              <owlnmole@>
              > wrote:
              > > reminds me that the Eeek!/Anhinga-style double-ended sharpie
              hull,
              > > with rocker forward but not aft, seems perfect for a little
              > > catamaran. Any thoughts on this from the assembled multitudes?
              >
            • Kenneth Grome
              Hi Matthew, The reason I asked is because I have had good luck building foam core hulls on small boats. This only makes sense before you start building of
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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                Hi Matthew,

                The reason I asked is because I have had good luck building foam core
                hulls on small boats. This only makes sense before you start building
                of course ... :)

                When the foam is encapsulated in epoxy and glass fabric it doesn't take
                up any extra space inside the hull, yet it provides more flotation than
                if you had built air tight flotation boxes or foam filled flotation
                chambers.

                It is cheaper to "just use plywood" of course, because then you don't
                need to make it into a composite sandwich like you do with the foam as
                core material. Nevertheless it is an option that most people who build
                small boats do not consider, and for some of these small boats I have
                found it to be a very good option.

                I am using cheap styrofoam on a small (8 foot long) paddle powered
                trimaran I am building right now, and I have a customer who wants one
                just like it only bigger so he can take a couple of friends paddling
                with him. Eventually I may post some pictures online when I get these
                boats finished.

                Even the little 8 footer should be a very seaworthy boat regardless of
                how small it is, not only because it is unsinkable but also because its
                design is a modern version of the traditional Philippine 'banca' boats
                that have been used in this country for open ocean fishing for perhaps
                thousands of years.

                If you were to use foam core in your sailboat hull, you would have to
                reinforce the stress points with extra fiberglass layers. But when
                you're done you would have an unsinkable high-tech composite hull with
                no wood in it, so it would never rot!

                Sincerely,
                Ken Grome
                Bagacay Boatworks
                www.bagacayboatworks.com






                > Ken,
                >
                > As you can see from the Featherwind page at
                > <http://molepages.googlepages.com> I am gathering materials but have
                > not yet started to build. I have previous build Brick, Yellow Leaf,
                > June Bug and Tortoise.
                >
                > So it would not be a big deal to integrate small changes now. One
                > thing I am considering, because I do have epoxy, wood flour and
                > fiberglass tape, is adding very small flotation chambers at the bow
                > and transom corners, whether by using foam blocks or light plywood
                > bulkheads, to add some flotation without loosing the open boat feel.
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > Matthew
              • Breton Losch
                ... I was just wondering, do you have to make any special considerations when choosing foam for the core/epoxy for the coating from the standpoint of chemical
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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                  >
                  >
                  > The reason I asked is because I have had good luck building foam core
                  > hulls on small boats. This only makes sense before you start building
                  > of course ... :)
                  >



                  I was just wondering, do you have to make any special considerations when
                  choosing foam for the core/epoxy for the coating from the standpoint of
                  chemical reactivity? I could think of nothing worse than meticulously
                  building your foam core, only to have it start to disintegrate in the
                  moments following the start of encapsulation.

                  Bret

                  --
                  "Govern a great nation as you would cook a small fish. Do not overdo it."

                  -- Lao Tzu


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Kenneth Grome
                  ... Epoxy is compatible with all types of foam. Polyester resin will dissolve polystyrene foam (styrofoam) and maybe other types of foam as well. Sincerely,
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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                    > > I have had good luck building foam core hulls on small boats.
                    > > This only makes sense before you start building of course ... :)
                    >
                    > I was just wondering, do you have to make any special considerations
                    > when choosing foam for the core/epoxy for the coating from the
                    > standpoint of chemical reactivity?

                    Epoxy is compatible with all types of foam. Polyester resin will
                    dissolve polystyrene foam (styrofoam) and maybe other types of foam as
                    well.

                    Sincerely,
                    Ken Grome
                    Bagacay Boatworks
                    www.bagacayboatworks.com
                  • The Peillet-Long Family
                    Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments. Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very little I despise more than working with fiberglass and
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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                      Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments.

                      Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very
                      little I despise more than working with fiberglass and resin, so I
                      try to keep it to a bare minimum. Something I might try, which I
                      have seen sketched out, but not in practice, is to add foam and
                      second layer of thin plywood, say to each side of the bow and the
                      transom, to make that a ply-foam-ply sandwich. This would add
                      floation without altering the center of buoancy too much or taking up
                      all the space.

                      Cheers,

                      Matthew

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Matthew,
                      >
                      > The reason I asked is because I have had good luck building foam
                      core
                      > hulls on small boats. This only makes sense before you start
                      building
                      > of course ... :)
                      >
                      > When the foam is encapsulated in epoxy and glass fabric it doesn't
                      take
                      > up any extra space inside the hull, yet it provides more flotation
                      than
                      > if you had built air tight flotation boxes or foam filled flotation
                      > chambers.
                      >
                      > It is cheaper to "just use plywood" of course, because then you
                      don't
                      > need to make it into a composite sandwich like you do with the foam
                      as
                      > core material. Nevertheless it is an option that most people who
                      build
                      > small boats do not consider, and for some of these small boats I
                      have
                      > found it to be a very good option.
                      >
                      > I am using cheap styrofoam on a small (8 foot long) paddle powered
                      > trimaran I am building right now, and I have a customer who wants
                      one
                      > just like it only bigger so he can take a couple of friends
                      paddling
                      > with him. Eventually I may post some pictures online when I get
                      these
                      > boats finished.
                      >
                      > Even the little 8 footer should be a very seaworthy boat regardless
                      of
                      > how small it is, not only because it is unsinkable but also because
                      its
                      > design is a modern version of the traditional Philippine 'banca'
                      boats
                      > that have been used in this country for open ocean fishing for
                      perhaps
                      > thousands of years.
                      >
                      > If you were to use foam core in your sailboat hull, you would have
                      to
                      > reinforce the stress points with extra fiberglass layers. But when
                      > you're done you would have an unsinkable high-tech composite hull
                      with
                      > no wood in it, so it would never rot!
                      >
                      > Sincerely,
                      > Ken Grome
                      > Bagacay Boatworks
                      > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > > Ken,
                      > >
                      > > As you can see from the Featherwind page at
                      > > <http://molepages.googlepages.com> I am gathering materials but
                      have
                      > > not yet started to build. I have previous build Brick, Yellow
                      Leaf,
                      > > June Bug and Tortoise.
                      > >
                      > > So it would not be a big deal to integrate small changes now. One
                      > > thing I am considering, because I do have epoxy, wood flour and
                      > > fiberglass tape, is adding very small flotation chambers at the
                      bow
                      > > and transom corners, whether by using foam blocks or light plywood
                      > > bulkheads, to add some flotation without loosing the open boat
                      feel.
                      > >
                      > > Regards,
                      > >
                      > > Matthew
                      >
                    • Kenneth Grome
                      You could also just glue a thick layer of flexible closed cell polyethylene foam to the inside of your hull. Then your boat will be quieter and softer inside,
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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                        You could also just glue a thick layer of flexible closed cell
                        polyethylene foam to the inside of your hull. Then your boat will be
                        quieter and softer inside, and you won't have the added weight, cost or
                        hassle of installing another layer of plywood that serves no real
                        purpose other than to prevent hard foam from getting dented and dinged
                        up.

                        http://www.polyethylenefoam.net

                        Sincerely,
                        Ken Grome
                        Bagacay Boatworks
                        www.bagacayboatworks.com




                        > Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments.
                        >
                        > Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very
                        > little I despise more than working with fiberglass and resin, so I
                        > try to keep it to a bare minimum. Something I might try, which I
                        > have seen sketched out, but not in practice, is to add foam and
                        > second layer of thin plywood, say to each side of the bow and the
                        > transom, to make that a ply-foam-ply sandwich. This would add
                        > floation without altering the center of buoancy too much or taking up
                        > all the space.
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        >
                        > Matthew
                      • The Peillet-Long Family
                        That s a very interesting suggestion, Ken. Do you or anyone else have any experience with polyethylene foam in this kind of application? Should it be painted
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 3, 2007
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                          That's a very interesting suggestion, Ken. Do you or anyone else
                          have any experience with polyethylene foam in this kind of
                          application? Should it be painted or otherwise protected? How does
                          it hold up to sun, water, abrasion over time?

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > You could also just glue a thick layer of flexible closed cell
                          > polyethylene foam to the inside of your hull. Then your boat will
                          be
                          > quieter and softer inside, and you won't have the added weight,
                          cost or
                          > hassle of installing another layer of plywood that serves no real
                          > purpose other than to prevent hard foam from getting dented and
                          dinged
                          > up.
                          >
                          > http://www.polyethylenefoam.net
                          >
                          > Sincerely,
                          > Ken Grome
                          > Bagacay Boatworks
                          > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > > Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments.
                          > >
                          > > Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very
                          > > little I despise more than working with fiberglass and resin, so I
                          > > try to keep it to a bare minimum. Something I might try, which I
                          > > have seen sketched out, but not in practice, is to add foam and
                          > > second layer of thin plywood, say to each side of the bow and the
                          > > transom, to make that a ply-foam-ply sandwich. This would add
                          > > floation without altering the center of buoancy too much or
                          taking up
                          > > all the space.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers,
                          > >
                          > > Matthew
                          >
                        • Kenneth Grome
                          I don t know how well polyethylene foam holds up, but I ve received samples fro a local plastic supplier and to me it seems like a better foam than most of the
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 3, 2007
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                            I don't know how well polyethylene foam holds up, but I've received
                            samples fro a local plastic supplier and to me it seems like a better
                            foam than most of the others people are familiar with.

                            The specs and descriptions I've seen suggest that it is not degraded by
                            UV or water or most chemicals. In other words, I think it will hold up
                            fine if you don't put it on walk areas or other high wear areas.

                            It is slippery like polyethylene plastic so paint won't stick to it.
                            Most adhesives won't stick to it very well either. Contact cement may
                            work, or maybe a special 3M adhesive -- 3M makes lots of special
                            adhesives, some specifically for plastics.

                            This plastic is used for packing expensive electronic equipment
                            sometimes. It costs more than the common EPS (expanded polystyrene)
                            packing foam but it is flexible and won't break like styrofoam.
                            Instead it will bend and flex enough to absorb the shock that breaks
                            other more rigid types of foams.

                            I've never tried it on a boat myself but I wouldn't hesitate for a
                            minute if I were in your shoes. Just make sure you use the right glue
                            so it doesn't peel off when you need it most. A bit of online research
                            should help you to identify the proper adhesives.

                            Sincerely,
                            Ken Grome
                            Bagacay Boatworks
                            www.bagacayboatworks.com







                            > That's a very interesting suggestion, Ken. Do you or anyone else
                            > have any experience with polyethylene foam in this kind of
                            > application? Should it be painted or otherwise protected? How does
                            > it hold up to sun, water, abrasion over time?
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
                            >
                            > wrote:
                            > > You could also just glue a thick layer of flexible closed cell
                            > > polyethylene foam to the inside of your hull. Then your boat will
                            >
                            > be
                            >
                            > > quieter and softer inside, and you won't have the added weight,
                            >
                            > cost or
                            >
                            > > hassle of installing another layer of plywood that serves no real
                            > > purpose other than to prevent hard foam from getting dented and
                            >
                            > dinged
                            >
                            > > up.
                            > >
                            > > http://www.polyethylenefoam.net
                            > >
                            > > Sincerely,
                            > > Ken Grome
                            > > Bagacay Boatworks
                            > > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                            > >
                            > > > Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments.
                            > > >
                            > > > Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very
                            > > > little I despise more than working with fiberglass and resin, so
                            > > > I try to keep it to a bare minimum. Something I might try,
                            > > > which I have seen sketched out, but not in practice, is to add
                            > > > foam and second layer of thin plywood, say to each side of the
                            > > > bow and the transom, to make that a ply-foam-ply sandwich. This
                            > > > would add floation without altering the center of buoancy too
                            > > > much or
                            >
                            > taking up
                            >
                            > > > all the space.
                            > > >
                            > > > Cheers,
                            > > >
                            > > > Matthew
                          • Bryant Owen
                            Is this the same thing as pool noodles? I have a dense polyethylene foam seat cushion which I think is what you re talking about and I d have to say I ve been
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 3, 2007
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                              Is this the same thing as pool noodles? I have a dense polyethylene
                              foam seat cushion which I think is what you're talking about and I'd
                              have to say I've been struck with it's durability. I also use pool
                              noodles for foam padding when cartopping. Seem very similar except the
                              pool noodles seem less dense - better flotation per lb but not as
                              tough. What's inside PDFs?

                              Bryant - also pondering flotation

                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I don't know how well polyethylene foam holds up, but I've received
                              > samples fro a local plastic supplier and to me it seems like a better
                              > foam than most of the others people are familiar with.
                              >
                              > The specs and descriptions I've seen suggest that it is not degraded by
                              > UV or water or most chemicals. In other words, I think it will hold up
                              > fine if you don't put it on walk areas or other high wear areas.
                              >
                              > It is slippery like polyethylene plastic so paint won't stick to it.
                              > Most adhesives won't stick to it very well either. Contact cement may
                              > work, or maybe a special 3M adhesive -- 3M makes lots of special
                              > adhesives, some specifically for plastics.
                              >
                              > This plastic is used for packing expensive electronic equipment
                              > sometimes. It costs more than the common EPS (expanded polystyrene)
                              > packing foam but it is flexible and won't break like styrofoam.
                              > Instead it will bend and flex enough to absorb the shock that breaks
                              > other more rigid types of foams.
                              >
                              > I've never tried it on a boat myself but I wouldn't hesitate for a
                              > minute if I were in your shoes. Just make sure you use the right glue
                              > so it doesn't peel off when you need it most. A bit of online research
                              > should help you to identify the proper adhesives.
                              >
                              > Sincerely,
                              > Ken Grome
                              > Bagacay Boatworks
                              > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > > That's a very interesting suggestion, Ken. Do you or anyone else
                              > > have any experience with polyethylene foam in this kind of
                              > > application? Should it be painted or otherwise protected? How does
                              > > it hold up to sun, water, abrasion over time?
                              > >
                              > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@>
                              > >
                              > > wrote:
                              > > > You could also just glue a thick layer of flexible closed cell
                              > > > polyethylene foam to the inside of your hull. Then your boat will
                              > >
                              > > be
                              > >
                              > > > quieter and softer inside, and you won't have the added weight,
                              > >
                              > > cost or
                              > >
                              > > > hassle of installing another layer of plywood that serves no real
                              > > > purpose other than to prevent hard foam from getting dented and
                              > >
                              > > dinged
                              > >
                              > > > up.
                              > > >
                              > > > http://www.polyethylenefoam.net
                              > > >
                              > > > Sincerely,
                              > > > Ken Grome
                              > > > Bagacay Boatworks
                              > > > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                              > > >
                              > > > > Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very
                              > > > > little I despise more than working with fiberglass and resin, so
                              > > > > I try to keep it to a bare minimum. Something I might try,
                              > > > > which I have seen sketched out, but not in practice, is to add
                              > > > > foam and second layer of thin plywood, say to each side of the
                              > > > > bow and the transom, to make that a ply-foam-ply sandwich. This
                              > > > > would add floation without altering the center of buoancy too
                              > > > > much or
                              > >
                              > > taking up
                              > >
                              > > > > all the space.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Cheers,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Matthew
                              >
                            • graeme19121984
                              280 lbs displacement for each hull. Most of that aft in level trim. Where it s wanted to lighten the bows in an EeeK!amaran . That will support a motor aft on
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 3, 2007
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                                280 lbs displacement for each hull. Most of that aft in level trim.
                                Where it's wanted to lighten the bows in an EeeK!amaran . That will
                                support a motor aft on a bracket too. A 6/1 L/B ratio is pretty good
                                for a sharpie shape, might just do for a tri-EeeK!amaran though too
                                small for even getting over an S/L of somewhere under 2 in a cat-
                                EeeK!amaran, I guess, let alone upwards of 3, and higher, but who
                                cares as for such an elegant small boat that's still a great ride
                                and stable platform for fun - ....and it might just plane faster
                                with those flat pointy aft bottoms. 560 lbs displacement all up,
                                less 175 - 200lbs if built as is without strengthened lightening,
                                plus rig and gear would allow an adult and couple of kids to daysail
                                more with some further immersion. Two might be able to camp
                                overnight, and one could go a long way.

                                I was once camped up north along Etty Bay, fishing at night on a
                                secluded jungle backed beach in the wet tropics just north of Flying
                                Fish point when out of the dark moonless fairy lit Coral Sea a small
                                chubby, boxy, cat pulled up on the beach. Her wild looking skipper
                                was encrusted with salt but was fit and happy. We fed and watered
                                him, and had a few drinks around the fire then went to look at the
                                boat by dim torch light. This was 1980, April it was, and I could
                                hardly believe my eyes. I thought small cats were Hobies! The boat,
                                about 12ft, was diposable - mostly nailed together from dump
                                scrounged ply, unpainted, save for some peeling remains from its
                                previous life - bits of wire and manilla string - a thredbare
                                standing lug (kinda) bedsheet and poly tarp sail. He'd launched from
                                Brisbane 1600kms down south, and was beachcruising twice that
                                distance further to the north, to Darwin, up and around the Top End.
                                I was beachcamping, but this was worth exploring.

                                He'd done it often he said. During the wet he'd drive down to the
                                big smoke, party hard on his dry season savings, parley the car,
                                then, broke, coastal cruise this way back to NT, for the next
                                shooting/fishing/mustering season. He said he'd tried the
                                conventional, and then broken free. No bus for him! He was a quietly
                                spoken bloke, big smile, and after I'd nodded off I found him gone
                                before first light. I had to check for marks on the beach where the
                                cat had been hauled up just to be sure this hadn't been a dream.
                                There was no sign left by the receding tide, then we found an
                                unopened bottle of scotch and a fresh Mangrove Jack, up against a
                                tree near the fire, and knew we'd hosted this traveller. I wish I
                                had seen the boat by daylight, it was sort of shocking; an EeeK!
                                amaran would be far superior. As far as I'm concerned he proved it
                                could work, easily.

                                I don't mean to distract your attention, I know well how that goes,
                                and FWIW I think you should build Nutmeg, that's a great design
                                (dinghies are great intros for kids - rowing - sailing - reactions
                                etc), but this may interest you for later on, and would work for you
                                for sure: PCB gave me some very brief details about Camping Trimaran
                                #554. He wrote "...the Camping Trimaran is #554, and not #544, and
                                is a design for a hull using Hobie 16 floats, rig, and hardware,
                                US$100...". I have absolutely no idea of the vaka size, shape or
                                construction. I mean it may be cold molded (out for me!) it may be a
                                stepped sheet material, instant, flat slamming rocket. Knowing
                                PCB's "camper" I think it would have great accomodations, a motor
                                etc. Old Hobie bits are readily available and can be purchased quite
                                cheaply, so it should give quick value for time and money. My guess
                                is it's similar to rendering Sparkler a simplified Lightning. I'd
                                venture it a simplified Newick Tremolino that also IIRC uses Hobie
                                bits. I must write and ask him to elaborate, unless someone here has
                                seen more details...




                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
                                <owlnmole@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Ah, a kindred spirit...
                                >
                                > I am on the road and don't have access to my Bolger collection,
                                but
                                > as I remember, Bolger prescribed something like 75 lbs ballast to
                                get
                                > stability when sailing. So presumably an Eeek!amaran with stock
                                > Eeek! hulls would be good for three adults, or two adults and a
                                > couple of kids. Hmmm, I bet I could work out a simple bridge deck
                                > from a 4' 8' sheet of plywood and Wharram-style lashed
                                connections
                                > to the hulls. In fact, the Sunfish sail I was getting for
                                > Featherwind should be about right for an Eeek!maran.
                                >
                                > Oh no, now look what you've done, here I go in another direction
                                > again!
                                >
                              • The Peillet-Long Family
                                Here s a neat link to a blog on beachcrusing in a Wharram Tiki 21 catamaran--not Bolger, but a great amateur-built design and a fun, excentric designer with a
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 4, 2007
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                                  Here's a neat link to a blog on beachcrusing in a Wharram Tiki 21
                                  catamaran--not Bolger, but a great amateur-built design and a fun,
                                  excentric designer with a worldwide foloowing.

                                  http://tiki21element.blogspot.com/
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