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Re: [bolger] Flotation in an open boat (was Re: New web site)

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  • dave seeton
    Hello Could you elaberate?(spelling) Explain more? Dave Kristine Bennett wrote: I m not really sure how
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 31 8:47 PM
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      Hello
      Could you elaberate?(spelling) Explain more?
      Dave

      Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote: I'm not really sure how the layout of the hull is but
      you can glue foam to the hull sides and then glue a
      light ply ofer the top of it and then glass the whole
      thing. This idea works the best with you have a boat
      that you want to keep the center open.

      Blessings
      Krissie
      --- The Peillet-Long Family <owlnmole@...>
      wrote:

      > Thanks, Graeme for the compliments.
      >
      > I actually contacted Dave Carnell on the flotation
      > question, but he
      > didn't have any specific advice to offer. I'd
      > rather not clutter up
      > the simple, open boat with bulkheads and decks, so
      > I'd appreciate any
      > suggestions folks might have on simple flotation
      > options.
      >

      __________________________________________________________
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    • The Peillet-Long Family
      A propos of nothing, looking at these pics (took me a while, had to join the group first and be approved) reminds me that the Eeek!/Anhinga- style double-ended
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 1, 2007
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        A propos of nothing, looking at these pics (took me a while, had to
        join the group first and be approved) reminds me that the Eeek!/Anhinga-
        style double-ended sharpie hull, with rocker forward but not aft, seems
        perfect for a little catamaran. Any thoughts on this from the
        assembled multitudes?

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Have you seen what Gary Lepak developed on his 12ft, cool, creative,
        > newest, BOXY LADY design?
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microcruising/message/13428 Take a
        > look at the linked file of photos.
        >
      • graeme19121984
        Oh, boy. How I ve been scheeming up a long slim hulled EeeK!amaran. Yes! Why wouldn t that work. Not as good a hull shape as some more modern sophisticated
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 1, 2007
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          Oh, boy. How I've been scheeming up a long slim hulled EeeK!amaran.
          Yes! Why wouldn't that work. Not as good a hull shape as some more
          modern sophisticated multhulls. Not as expensive either! The fore
          bottom and sides in accord with Bolger sharpie water flow theory, and
          the aft bottom a power economising "rule cheating" transition zone
          speedster as on the Topaz-Sitka powerboat type. The EeeK!amaran would
          carry enough sail to hit that transition zone, surely - maybe go right
          through it! Not a racing multi, a cruiser and a good one at that! I
          think some modern multi racers may sneer at rooster tails, but, boy, I
          would cheer them. Might as well too as I think you're gunna get 'em.
          Beauties!


          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family" <owlnmole@...>
          wrote:
          > reminds me that the Eeek!/Anhinga-style double-ended sharpie hull,
          > with rocker forward but not aft, seems perfect for a little
          > catamaran. Any thoughts on this from the assembled multitudes?
        • Kenneth Grome
          In what stage of construction is the boat ... and which boat are you building? Sincerely, Ken Grome Bagacay Boatworks www.bagacayboatworks.com
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 1, 2007
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            In what stage of construction is the boat ... and which boat are you
            building?

            Sincerely,
            Ken Grome
            Bagacay Boatworks
            www.bagacayboatworks.com



            > Thanks, Graeme for the compliments.
            >
            > I actually contacted Dave Carnell on the flotation question, but he
            > didn't have any specific advice to offer. I'd rather not clutter up
            > the simple, open boat with bulkheads and decks, so I'd appreciate any
            > suggestions folks might have on simple flotation options.
            >
            > I am considering something like kayak float bags at the bow and
            > transom corners, just to make the boat easier to recover after a
            > capsize. The people will all have life vests. Foam under the
            > partner thwart might help, too.
            >
            > Again, I am trying not to turn the boat into a decked skiff, or else
            > I should be building something else like Storm Petrel, June Bug or
            > one of Jim Michalak's designs. What really appeals to me about
            > Featherwind is all that space and I don't want to give that up.
            >
            > Please, if anyone has any suggestions or experience to share, weigh
            > in.
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > Matthew
          • The Peillet-Long Family
            Ken, As you can see from the Featherwind page at I am gathering materials but have not yet started to build. I have
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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              Ken,

              As you can see from the Featherwind page at
              <http://molepages.googlepages.com> I am gathering materials but have
              not yet started to build. I have previous build Brick, Yellow Leaf,
              June Bug and Tortoise.

              So it would not be a big deal to integrate small changes now. One
              thing I am considering, because I do have epoxy, wood flour and
              fiberglass tape, is adding very small flotation chambers at the bow
              and transom corners, whether by using foam blocks or light plywood
              bulkheads, to add some flotation without loosing the open boat feel.

              Regards,

              Matthew

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > In what stage of construction is the boat ... and which boat are
              you
              > building?
              >
              > Sincerely,
              > Ken Grome
              > Bagacay Boatworks
              > www.bagacayboatworks.com
              >
              >
              >
              > > Thanks, Graeme for the compliments.
              > >
              > > I actually contacted Dave Carnell on the flotation question, but
              he
              > > didn't have any specific advice to offer. I'd rather not clutter
              up
              > > the simple, open boat with bulkheads and decks, so I'd appreciate
              any
              > > suggestions folks might have on simple flotation options.
              > >
              > > I am considering something like kayak float bags at the bow and
              > > transom corners, just to make the boat easier to recover after a
              > > capsize. The people will all have life vests. Foam under the
              > > partner thwart might help, too.
              > >
              > > Again, I am trying not to turn the boat into a decked skiff, or
              else
              > > I should be building something else like Storm Petrel, June Bug or
              > > one of Jim Michalak's designs. What really appeals to me about
              > > Featherwind is all that space and I don't want to give that up.
              > >
              > > Please, if anyone has any suggestions or experience to share,
              weigh
              > > in.
              > >
              > > Cheers,
              > >
              > > Matthew
              >
            • The Peillet-Long Family
              Ah, a kindred spirit... I am on the road and don t have access to my Bolger collection, but as I remember, Bolger prescribed something like 75 lbs ballast to
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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                Ah, a kindred spirit...

                I am on the road and don't have access to my Bolger collection, but
                as I remember, Bolger prescribed something like 75 lbs ballast to get
                stability when sailing. So presumably an Eeek!amaran with stock
                Eeek! hulls would be good for three adults, or two adults and a
                couple of kids. Hmmm, I bet I could work out a simple bridge deck
                from a 4' 8' sheet of plywood and Wharram-style lashed connections
                to the hulls. In fact, the Sunfish sail I was getting for
                Featherwind should be about right for an Eeek!maran.

                Oh no, now look what you've done, here I go in another direction
                again!

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Oh, boy. How I've been scheeming up a long slim hulled EeeK!amaran.
                > Yes! Why wouldn't that work. Not as good a hull shape as some more
                > modern sophisticated multhulls. Not as expensive either! The fore
                > bottom and sides in accord with Bolger sharpie water flow theory,
                and
                > the aft bottom a power economising "rule cheating" transition zone
                > speedster as on the Topaz-Sitka powerboat type. The EeeK!amaran
                would
                > carry enough sail to hit that transition zone, surely - maybe go
                right
                > through it! Not a racing multi, a cruiser and a good one at that! I
                > think some modern multi racers may sneer at rooster tails, but,
                boy, I
                > would cheer them. Might as well too as I think you're gunna
                get 'em.
                > Beauties!
                >
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
                <owlnmole@>
                > wrote:
                > > reminds me that the Eeek!/Anhinga-style double-ended sharpie
                hull,
                > > with rocker forward but not aft, seems perfect for a little
                > > catamaran. Any thoughts on this from the assembled multitudes?
                >
              • Kenneth Grome
                Hi Matthew, The reason I asked is because I have had good luck building foam core hulls on small boats. This only makes sense before you start building of
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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                  Hi Matthew,

                  The reason I asked is because I have had good luck building foam core
                  hulls on small boats. This only makes sense before you start building
                  of course ... :)

                  When the foam is encapsulated in epoxy and glass fabric it doesn't take
                  up any extra space inside the hull, yet it provides more flotation than
                  if you had built air tight flotation boxes or foam filled flotation
                  chambers.

                  It is cheaper to "just use plywood" of course, because then you don't
                  need to make it into a composite sandwich like you do with the foam as
                  core material. Nevertheless it is an option that most people who build
                  small boats do not consider, and for some of these small boats I have
                  found it to be a very good option.

                  I am using cheap styrofoam on a small (8 foot long) paddle powered
                  trimaran I am building right now, and I have a customer who wants one
                  just like it only bigger so he can take a couple of friends paddling
                  with him. Eventually I may post some pictures online when I get these
                  boats finished.

                  Even the little 8 footer should be a very seaworthy boat regardless of
                  how small it is, not only because it is unsinkable but also because its
                  design is a modern version of the traditional Philippine 'banca' boats
                  that have been used in this country for open ocean fishing for perhaps
                  thousands of years.

                  If you were to use foam core in your sailboat hull, you would have to
                  reinforce the stress points with extra fiberglass layers. But when
                  you're done you would have an unsinkable high-tech composite hull with
                  no wood in it, so it would never rot!

                  Sincerely,
                  Ken Grome
                  Bagacay Boatworks
                  www.bagacayboatworks.com






                  > Ken,
                  >
                  > As you can see from the Featherwind page at
                  > <http://molepages.googlepages.com> I am gathering materials but have
                  > not yet started to build. I have previous build Brick, Yellow Leaf,
                  > June Bug and Tortoise.
                  >
                  > So it would not be a big deal to integrate small changes now. One
                  > thing I am considering, because I do have epoxy, wood flour and
                  > fiberglass tape, is adding very small flotation chambers at the bow
                  > and transom corners, whether by using foam blocks or light plywood
                  > bulkheads, to add some flotation without loosing the open boat feel.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Matthew
                • Breton Losch
                  ... I was just wondering, do you have to make any special considerations when choosing foam for the core/epoxy for the coating from the standpoint of chemical
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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                    >
                    >
                    > The reason I asked is because I have had good luck building foam core
                    > hulls on small boats. This only makes sense before you start building
                    > of course ... :)
                    >



                    I was just wondering, do you have to make any special considerations when
                    choosing foam for the core/epoxy for the coating from the standpoint of
                    chemical reactivity? I could think of nothing worse than meticulously
                    building your foam core, only to have it start to disintegrate in the
                    moments following the start of encapsulation.

                    Bret

                    --
                    "Govern a great nation as you would cook a small fish. Do not overdo it."

                    -- Lao Tzu


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Kenneth Grome
                    ... Epoxy is compatible with all types of foam. Polyester resin will dissolve polystyrene foam (styrofoam) and maybe other types of foam as well. Sincerely,
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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                      > > I have had good luck building foam core hulls on small boats.
                      > > This only makes sense before you start building of course ... :)
                      >
                      > I was just wondering, do you have to make any special considerations
                      > when choosing foam for the core/epoxy for the coating from the
                      > standpoint of chemical reactivity?

                      Epoxy is compatible with all types of foam. Polyester resin will
                      dissolve polystyrene foam (styrofoam) and maybe other types of foam as
                      well.

                      Sincerely,
                      Ken Grome
                      Bagacay Boatworks
                      www.bagacayboatworks.com
                    • The Peillet-Long Family
                      Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments. Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very little I despise more than working with fiberglass and
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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                        Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments.

                        Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very
                        little I despise more than working with fiberglass and resin, so I
                        try to keep it to a bare minimum. Something I might try, which I
                        have seen sketched out, but not in practice, is to add foam and
                        second layer of thin plywood, say to each side of the bow and the
                        transom, to make that a ply-foam-ply sandwich. This would add
                        floation without altering the center of buoancy too much or taking up
                        all the space.

                        Cheers,

                        Matthew

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Matthew,
                        >
                        > The reason I asked is because I have had good luck building foam
                        core
                        > hulls on small boats. This only makes sense before you start
                        building
                        > of course ... :)
                        >
                        > When the foam is encapsulated in epoxy and glass fabric it doesn't
                        take
                        > up any extra space inside the hull, yet it provides more flotation
                        than
                        > if you had built air tight flotation boxes or foam filled flotation
                        > chambers.
                        >
                        > It is cheaper to "just use plywood" of course, because then you
                        don't
                        > need to make it into a composite sandwich like you do with the foam
                        as
                        > core material. Nevertheless it is an option that most people who
                        build
                        > small boats do not consider, and for some of these small boats I
                        have
                        > found it to be a very good option.
                        >
                        > I am using cheap styrofoam on a small (8 foot long) paddle powered
                        > trimaran I am building right now, and I have a customer who wants
                        one
                        > just like it only bigger so he can take a couple of friends
                        paddling
                        > with him. Eventually I may post some pictures online when I get
                        these
                        > boats finished.
                        >
                        > Even the little 8 footer should be a very seaworthy boat regardless
                        of
                        > how small it is, not only because it is unsinkable but also because
                        its
                        > design is a modern version of the traditional Philippine 'banca'
                        boats
                        > that have been used in this country for open ocean fishing for
                        perhaps
                        > thousands of years.
                        >
                        > If you were to use foam core in your sailboat hull, you would have
                        to
                        > reinforce the stress points with extra fiberglass layers. But when
                        > you're done you would have an unsinkable high-tech composite hull
                        with
                        > no wood in it, so it would never rot!
                        >
                        > Sincerely,
                        > Ken Grome
                        > Bagacay Boatworks
                        > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > > Ken,
                        > >
                        > > As you can see from the Featherwind page at
                        > > <http://molepages.googlepages.com> I am gathering materials but
                        have
                        > > not yet started to build. I have previous build Brick, Yellow
                        Leaf,
                        > > June Bug and Tortoise.
                        > >
                        > > So it would not be a big deal to integrate small changes now. One
                        > > thing I am considering, because I do have epoxy, wood flour and
                        > > fiberglass tape, is adding very small flotation chambers at the
                        bow
                        > > and transom corners, whether by using foam blocks or light plywood
                        > > bulkheads, to add some flotation without loosing the open boat
                        feel.
                        > >
                        > > Regards,
                        > >
                        > > Matthew
                        >
                      • Kenneth Grome
                        You could also just glue a thick layer of flexible closed cell polyethylene foam to the inside of your hull. Then your boat will be quieter and softer inside,
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 2, 2007
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                          You could also just glue a thick layer of flexible closed cell
                          polyethylene foam to the inside of your hull. Then your boat will be
                          quieter and softer inside, and you won't have the added weight, cost or
                          hassle of installing another layer of plywood that serves no real
                          purpose other than to prevent hard foam from getting dented and dinged
                          up.

                          http://www.polyethylenefoam.net

                          Sincerely,
                          Ken Grome
                          Bagacay Boatworks
                          www.bagacayboatworks.com




                          > Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments.
                          >
                          > Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very
                          > little I despise more than working with fiberglass and resin, so I
                          > try to keep it to a bare minimum. Something I might try, which I
                          > have seen sketched out, but not in practice, is to add foam and
                          > second layer of thin plywood, say to each side of the bow and the
                          > transom, to make that a ply-foam-ply sandwich. This would add
                          > floation without altering the center of buoancy too much or taking up
                          > all the space.
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          >
                          > Matthew
                        • The Peillet-Long Family
                          That s a very interesting suggestion, Ken. Do you or anyone else have any experience with polyethylene foam in this kind of application? Should it be painted
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 3, 2007
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                            That's a very interesting suggestion, Ken. Do you or anyone else
                            have any experience with polyethylene foam in this kind of
                            application? Should it be painted or otherwise protected? How does
                            it hold up to sun, water, abrasion over time?

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > You could also just glue a thick layer of flexible closed cell
                            > polyethylene foam to the inside of your hull. Then your boat will
                            be
                            > quieter and softer inside, and you won't have the added weight,
                            cost or
                            > hassle of installing another layer of plywood that serves no real
                            > purpose other than to prevent hard foam from getting dented and
                            dinged
                            > up.
                            >
                            > http://www.polyethylenefoam.net
                            >
                            > Sincerely,
                            > Ken Grome
                            > Bagacay Boatworks
                            > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > > Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments.
                            > >
                            > > Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very
                            > > little I despise more than working with fiberglass and resin, so I
                            > > try to keep it to a bare minimum. Something I might try, which I
                            > > have seen sketched out, but not in practice, is to add foam and
                            > > second layer of thin plywood, say to each side of the bow and the
                            > > transom, to make that a ply-foam-ply sandwich. This would add
                            > > floation without altering the center of buoancy too much or
                            taking up
                            > > all the space.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers,
                            > >
                            > > Matthew
                            >
                          • Kenneth Grome
                            I don t know how well polyethylene foam holds up, but I ve received samples fro a local plastic supplier and to me it seems like a better foam than most of the
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 3, 2007
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                              I don't know how well polyethylene foam holds up, but I've received
                              samples fro a local plastic supplier and to me it seems like a better
                              foam than most of the others people are familiar with.

                              The specs and descriptions I've seen suggest that it is not degraded by
                              UV or water or most chemicals. In other words, I think it will hold up
                              fine if you don't put it on walk areas or other high wear areas.

                              It is slippery like polyethylene plastic so paint won't stick to it.
                              Most adhesives won't stick to it very well either. Contact cement may
                              work, or maybe a special 3M adhesive -- 3M makes lots of special
                              adhesives, some specifically for plastics.

                              This plastic is used for packing expensive electronic equipment
                              sometimes. It costs more than the common EPS (expanded polystyrene)
                              packing foam but it is flexible and won't break like styrofoam.
                              Instead it will bend and flex enough to absorb the shock that breaks
                              other more rigid types of foams.

                              I've never tried it on a boat myself but I wouldn't hesitate for a
                              minute if I were in your shoes. Just make sure you use the right glue
                              so it doesn't peel off when you need it most. A bit of online research
                              should help you to identify the proper adhesives.

                              Sincerely,
                              Ken Grome
                              Bagacay Boatworks
                              www.bagacayboatworks.com







                              > That's a very interesting suggestion, Ken. Do you or anyone else
                              > have any experience with polyethylene foam in this kind of
                              > application? Should it be painted or otherwise protected? How does
                              > it hold up to sun, water, abrasion over time?
                              >
                              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
                              >
                              > wrote:
                              > > You could also just glue a thick layer of flexible closed cell
                              > > polyethylene foam to the inside of your hull. Then your boat will
                              >
                              > be
                              >
                              > > quieter and softer inside, and you won't have the added weight,
                              >
                              > cost or
                              >
                              > > hassle of installing another layer of plywood that serves no real
                              > > purpose other than to prevent hard foam from getting dented and
                              >
                              > dinged
                              >
                              > > up.
                              > >
                              > > http://www.polyethylenefoam.net
                              > >
                              > > Sincerely,
                              > > Ken Grome
                              > > Bagacay Boatworks
                              > > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                              > >
                              > > > Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments.
                              > > >
                              > > > Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very
                              > > > little I despise more than working with fiberglass and resin, so
                              > > > I try to keep it to a bare minimum. Something I might try,
                              > > > which I have seen sketched out, but not in practice, is to add
                              > > > foam and second layer of thin plywood, say to each side of the
                              > > > bow and the transom, to make that a ply-foam-ply sandwich. This
                              > > > would add floation without altering the center of buoancy too
                              > > > much or
                              >
                              > taking up
                              >
                              > > > all the space.
                              > > >
                              > > > Cheers,
                              > > >
                              > > > Matthew
                            • Bryant Owen
                              Is this the same thing as pool noodles? I have a dense polyethylene foam seat cushion which I think is what you re talking about and I d have to say I ve been
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 3, 2007
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                                Is this the same thing as pool noodles? I have a dense polyethylene
                                foam seat cushion which I think is what you're talking about and I'd
                                have to say I've been struck with it's durability. I also use pool
                                noodles for foam padding when cartopping. Seem very similar except the
                                pool noodles seem less dense - better flotation per lb but not as
                                tough. What's inside PDFs?

                                Bryant - also pondering flotation

                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I don't know how well polyethylene foam holds up, but I've received
                                > samples fro a local plastic supplier and to me it seems like a better
                                > foam than most of the others people are familiar with.
                                >
                                > The specs and descriptions I've seen suggest that it is not degraded by
                                > UV or water or most chemicals. In other words, I think it will hold up
                                > fine if you don't put it on walk areas or other high wear areas.
                                >
                                > It is slippery like polyethylene plastic so paint won't stick to it.
                                > Most adhesives won't stick to it very well either. Contact cement may
                                > work, or maybe a special 3M adhesive -- 3M makes lots of special
                                > adhesives, some specifically for plastics.
                                >
                                > This plastic is used for packing expensive electronic equipment
                                > sometimes. It costs more than the common EPS (expanded polystyrene)
                                > packing foam but it is flexible and won't break like styrofoam.
                                > Instead it will bend and flex enough to absorb the shock that breaks
                                > other more rigid types of foams.
                                >
                                > I've never tried it on a boat myself but I wouldn't hesitate for a
                                > minute if I were in your shoes. Just make sure you use the right glue
                                > so it doesn't peel off when you need it most. A bit of online research
                                > should help you to identify the proper adhesives.
                                >
                                > Sincerely,
                                > Ken Grome
                                > Bagacay Boatworks
                                > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > > That's a very interesting suggestion, Ken. Do you or anyone else
                                > > have any experience with polyethylene foam in this kind of
                                > > application? Should it be painted or otherwise protected? How does
                                > > it hold up to sun, water, abrasion over time?
                                > >
                                > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@>
                                > >
                                > > wrote:
                                > > > You could also just glue a thick layer of flexible closed cell
                                > > > polyethylene foam to the inside of your hull. Then your boat will
                                > >
                                > > be
                                > >
                                > > > quieter and softer inside, and you won't have the added weight,
                                > >
                                > > cost or
                                > >
                                > > > hassle of installing another layer of plywood that serves no real
                                > > > purpose other than to prevent hard foam from getting dented and
                                > >
                                > > dinged
                                > >
                                > > > up.
                                > > >
                                > > > http://www.polyethylenefoam.net
                                > > >
                                > > > Sincerely,
                                > > > Ken Grome
                                > > > Bagacay Boatworks
                                > > > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                                > > >
                                > > > > Hi, Ken, and thanks for your comments.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Your ideas are very interesting, but unfortunately, there is very
                                > > > > little I despise more than working with fiberglass and resin, so
                                > > > > I try to keep it to a bare minimum. Something I might try,
                                > > > > which I have seen sketched out, but not in practice, is to add
                                > > > > foam and second layer of thin plywood, say to each side of the
                                > > > > bow and the transom, to make that a ply-foam-ply sandwich. This
                                > > > > would add floation without altering the center of buoancy too
                                > > > > much or
                                > >
                                > > taking up
                                > >
                                > > > > all the space.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Cheers,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Matthew
                                >
                              • graeme19121984
                                280 lbs displacement for each hull. Most of that aft in level trim. Where it s wanted to lighten the bows in an EeeK!amaran . That will support a motor aft on
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 3, 2007
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                                  280 lbs displacement for each hull. Most of that aft in level trim.
                                  Where it's wanted to lighten the bows in an EeeK!amaran . That will
                                  support a motor aft on a bracket too. A 6/1 L/B ratio is pretty good
                                  for a sharpie shape, might just do for a tri-EeeK!amaran though too
                                  small for even getting over an S/L of somewhere under 2 in a cat-
                                  EeeK!amaran, I guess, let alone upwards of 3, and higher, but who
                                  cares as for such an elegant small boat that's still a great ride
                                  and stable platform for fun - ....and it might just plane faster
                                  with those flat pointy aft bottoms. 560 lbs displacement all up,
                                  less 175 - 200lbs if built as is without strengthened lightening,
                                  plus rig and gear would allow an adult and couple of kids to daysail
                                  more with some further immersion. Two might be able to camp
                                  overnight, and one could go a long way.

                                  I was once camped up north along Etty Bay, fishing at night on a
                                  secluded jungle backed beach in the wet tropics just north of Flying
                                  Fish point when out of the dark moonless fairy lit Coral Sea a small
                                  chubby, boxy, cat pulled up on the beach. Her wild looking skipper
                                  was encrusted with salt but was fit and happy. We fed and watered
                                  him, and had a few drinks around the fire then went to look at the
                                  boat by dim torch light. This was 1980, April it was, and I could
                                  hardly believe my eyes. I thought small cats were Hobies! The boat,
                                  about 12ft, was diposable - mostly nailed together from dump
                                  scrounged ply, unpainted, save for some peeling remains from its
                                  previous life - bits of wire and manilla string - a thredbare
                                  standing lug (kinda) bedsheet and poly tarp sail. He'd launched from
                                  Brisbane 1600kms down south, and was beachcruising twice that
                                  distance further to the north, to Darwin, up and around the Top End.
                                  I was beachcamping, but this was worth exploring.

                                  He'd done it often he said. During the wet he'd drive down to the
                                  big smoke, party hard on his dry season savings, parley the car,
                                  then, broke, coastal cruise this way back to NT, for the next
                                  shooting/fishing/mustering season. He said he'd tried the
                                  conventional, and then broken free. No bus for him! He was a quietly
                                  spoken bloke, big smile, and after I'd nodded off I found him gone
                                  before first light. I had to check for marks on the beach where the
                                  cat had been hauled up just to be sure this hadn't been a dream.
                                  There was no sign left by the receding tide, then we found an
                                  unopened bottle of scotch and a fresh Mangrove Jack, up against a
                                  tree near the fire, and knew we'd hosted this traveller. I wish I
                                  had seen the boat by daylight, it was sort of shocking; an EeeK!
                                  amaran would be far superior. As far as I'm concerned he proved it
                                  could work, easily.

                                  I don't mean to distract your attention, I know well how that goes,
                                  and FWIW I think you should build Nutmeg, that's a great design
                                  (dinghies are great intros for kids - rowing - sailing - reactions
                                  etc), but this may interest you for later on, and would work for you
                                  for sure: PCB gave me some very brief details about Camping Trimaran
                                  #554. He wrote "...the Camping Trimaran is #554, and not #544, and
                                  is a design for a hull using Hobie 16 floats, rig, and hardware,
                                  US$100...". I have absolutely no idea of the vaka size, shape or
                                  construction. I mean it may be cold molded (out for me!) it may be a
                                  stepped sheet material, instant, flat slamming rocket. Knowing
                                  PCB's "camper" I think it would have great accomodations, a motor
                                  etc. Old Hobie bits are readily available and can be purchased quite
                                  cheaply, so it should give quick value for time and money. My guess
                                  is it's similar to rendering Sparkler a simplified Lightning. I'd
                                  venture it a simplified Newick Tremolino that also IIRC uses Hobie
                                  bits. I must write and ask him to elaborate, unless someone here has
                                  seen more details...




                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
                                  <owlnmole@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Ah, a kindred spirit...
                                  >
                                  > I am on the road and don't have access to my Bolger collection,
                                  but
                                  > as I remember, Bolger prescribed something like 75 lbs ballast to
                                  get
                                  > stability when sailing. So presumably an Eeek!amaran with stock
                                  > Eeek! hulls would be good for three adults, or two adults and a
                                  > couple of kids. Hmmm, I bet I could work out a simple bridge deck
                                  > from a 4' 8' sheet of plywood and Wharram-style lashed
                                  connections
                                  > to the hulls. In fact, the Sunfish sail I was getting for
                                  > Featherwind should be about right for an Eeek!maran.
                                  >
                                  > Oh no, now look what you've done, here I go in another direction
                                  > again!
                                  >
                                • The Peillet-Long Family
                                  Here s a neat link to a blog on beachcrusing in a Wharram Tiki 21 catamaran--not Bolger, but a great amateur-built design and a fun, excentric designer with a
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Aug 4, 2007
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                                    Here's a neat link to a blog on beachcrusing in a Wharram Tiki 21
                                    catamaran--not Bolger, but a great amateur-built design and a fun,
                                    excentric designer with a worldwide foloowing.

                                    http://tiki21element.blogspot.com/
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