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Shorthanded Cruising AS19

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  • graeme19121984
    Are crew sitting on the widward side deck necessary for good sailing performance? That is, for single handing, could the skipper sit lower down, actually in
    Message 1 of 26 , Jul 3, 2007
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      Are crew sitting on the widward side deck necessary for good sailing
      performance?

      That is, for single handing, could the skipper sit lower down, actually
      in the cockpit and laid back in a gimballed chair for long hours, or,
      like Roger Keyes, in a suitably adjusted bean bag? Perhaps a
      bimini/spray dodger could also be fitted?

      Any thoughts anyone? Would AS19 heel too much?

      If you're there, Mike, or Patrick, what do you think?

      Graeme
    • Bruce Hallman
      I have never sailed an AS-19, but would really love the chance. My guess is that she has so much lead ballast that you could easily sail single handed, and
      Message 2 of 26 , Jul 4, 2007
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        I have never sailed an AS-19, but would really love the chance. My
        guess is that she has so much lead ballast that you could easily sail
        single handed, and any 'knock down' would pop back up very quickly.
      • graeme19121984
        I d bet you re right about the knock down , Bruce. I just wonder that she may really be designed to sail with a number of active crew ballast too (most of the
        Message 3 of 26 , Jul 4, 2007
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          I'd bet you're right about the 'knock down', Bruce. I just wonder that
          she may really be designed to sail with a number of active crew ballast
          too (most of the 900lbs capacity?). Without it I wonder if she may sail
          with the lee deck too much awash, especially into head seas. That could
          be fun, is likely fastest, but may be tiring after a while. Perhaps
          getting the reef points right might allow the attitude to be adjusted
          for comfort under whatever conditions and load, while keeping on with
          the speed?

          Graeme


          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have never sailed an AS-19, but would really love the chance. My
          > guess is that she has so much lead ballast that you could easily sail
          > single handed, and any 'knock down' would pop back up very quickly.
          >
        • cabbie_caesar
          My AS19 is a wonderfull shorthanded sail boat. I have sailed it many times overcanvased in 15-20 knots of wind and have never been knocked down. As for
          Message 4 of 26 , Jul 22, 2007
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            My AS19 is a wonderfull shorthanded sail boat. I have sailed it many
            times overcanvased in 15-20 knots of wind and have never been knocked
            down. As for sitting "down in the cockpit" that is impossible. The
            cockpit is a long foot well, you sit up high on the deck just below
            the
            shear. I do have one of those articulating seat cushions from West
            Marine to sit on for back support and that has proven to be very
            comfortable. When sailing with a crew the cabin bulkhead makes a
            nice
            place to rest against.

            The number one hinderence for a single handed sailor would be heavy
            spars. Make them light especially the mast, mine must weigh every
            bit of 100
            pounds and can be a bear to lift. You can forget about the dodger by
            the time spray becomes a problem I have green water sweeping down the
            deck. I don't mean this as a knock, but the boat is only 19 feet so
            small craft warnings should be heeded.

            I am not the builder of my boat so I can't answer too many questions
            about it's construction, but I do love sailing my boat and would not
            hesitate to embark on a coastal cruise with well constructed AS19.

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Are crew sitting on the widward side deck necessary for good
            sailing
            > performance?
            >
            > That is, for single handing, could the skipper sit lower down,
            actually
            > in the cockpit and laid back in a gimballed chair for long hours,
            or,
            > like Roger Keyes, in a suitably adjusted bean bag? Perhaps a
            > bimini/spray dodger could also be fitted?
            >
            > Any thoughts anyone? Would AS19 heel too much?
            >
            > If you're there, Mike, or Patrick, what do you think?
            >
            > Graeme
            >
          • graeme19121984
            Thanks for the information. It s interesting to read your positive comments, particularly about the AS19 capability for coastal cruising. How have you found it
            Message 5 of 26 , Jul 23, 2007
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              Thanks for the information. It's interesting to read your positive
              comments, particularly about the AS19 capability for coastal
              cruising. How have you found it for beating to windward? How close
              to the wind are you able to sail; any closer when reefed? How does
              she go under power, and what's the fuel consumption like? Apart from
              the difficulty you have with mast weight, how quick is it to rig,
              and launch - and retrieve?

              Do you think the garvey bow suggested by PCB would be really much of
              an improvement? Maybe it would push down some of that green water?
              Worth the trouble?

              It's very interesting that you're able to sail overcanvassed in 20
              knots without ever a knockdown. How might it go heaved to in 30 to
              40 knots? How does it heave to in more tolerable wind, say, while
              the crew are below having lunch?

              I've had that port profile photo of Mike Stockstill's Orpheo on the
              desktop for a week or two, and will say that the looks do become
              acceptable. http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as19.htm

              Oh, another question if you don't mind, how is the cabin and the
              rest of the interior ventilated when the hatch is closed? Ive not
              seen any other openings in the few photos available, nor in the
              cartoons.

              Cheers
              Graeme





              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > My AS19 is a wonderfull shorthanded sail boat. I have sailed it
              many
              > times overcanvased in 15-20 knots of wind and have never been
              knocked
              > down. As for sitting "down in the cockpit" that is impossible.
              The
              > cockpit is a long foot well, you sit up high on the deck just
              below
              > the
              > shear. I do have one of those articulating seat cushions from
              West
              > Marine to sit on for back support and that has proven to be very
              > comfortable. When sailing with a crew the cabin bulkhead makes a
              > nice
              > place to rest against.
              >
              > The number one hinderence for a single handed sailor would be
              heavy
              > spars. Make them light especially the mast, mine must weigh every
              > bit of 100
              > pounds and can be a bear to lift. You can forget about the dodger
              by
              > the time spray becomes a problem I have green water sweeping down
              the
              > deck. I don't mean this as a knock, but the boat is only 19 feet
              so
              > small craft warnings should be heeded.
              >
              > I am not the builder of my boat so I can't answer too many
              questions
              > about it's construction, but I do love sailing my boat and would
              not
              > hesitate to embark on a coastal cruise with well constructed AS19.
              >
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Are crew sitting on the widward side deck necessary for good
              > sailing
              > > performance?
              > >
              > > That is, for single handing, could the skipper sit lower down,
              > actually
              > > in the cockpit and laid back in a gimballed chair for long
              hours,
              > or,
              > > like Roger Keyes, in a suitably adjusted bean bag? Perhaps a
              > > bimini/spray dodger could also be fitted?
              > >
              > > Any thoughts anyone? Would AS19 heel too much?
              > >
              > > If you're there, Mike, or Patrick, what do you think?
              > >
              > > Graeme
              > >
              >
            • nels
              ... I have a couple of other questions in addition if you don t mind? How do you like the lee boards? How much and what kind of ballast is used? OK another one
              Message 6 of 26 , Jul 23, 2007
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                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Thanks for the information. It's interesting to read your positive
                > comments, particularly about the AS19 capability for coastal
                > cruising. How have you found it for beating to windward? How close
                > to the wind are you able to sail; any closer when reefed? How does
                > she go under power, and what's the fuel consumption like? Apart from
                > the difficulty you have with mast weight, how quick is it to rig,
                > and launch - and retrieve?
                >
                > Do you think the garvey bow suggested by PCB would be really much of
                > an improvement? Maybe it would push down some of that green water?
                > Worth the trouble?
                >
                > It's very interesting that you're able to sail overcanvassed in 20
                > knots without ever a knockdown. How might it go heaved to in 30 to
                > 40 knots? How does it heave to in more tolerable wind, say, while
                > the crew are below having lunch?
                >
                > I've had that port profile photo of Mike Stockstill's Orpheo on the
                > desktop for a week or two, and will say that the looks do become
                > acceptable. http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as19.htm
                >
                > Oh, another question if you don't mind, how is the cabin and the
                > rest of the interior ventilated when the hatch is closed? Ive not
                > seen any other openings in the few photos available, nor in the
                > cartoons.
                >
                > Cheers
                > Graeme

                I have a couple of other questions in addition if you don't mind?

                How do you like the lee boards?

                How much and what kind of ballast is used?

                OK another one - What is the articulated seat cushion you mention? Any
                link to it?

                The AS19 is kind of a "forgotten" design. The very pure "seas of peas"
                hull - I would think turns off a lot of people - but results in a fast
                boat.

                Much appreciated,

                Nels (Who thinks "chine runners" when thinking of AS19:-)
              • graeme19121984
                I m precipitously close to getting the plans for forgotten AS19. I d have no choice but to purchase the plans for a stretched AS19: a less involved AS29 (and
                Message 7 of 26 , Jul 23, 2007
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                  I'm precipitously close to getting the plans for "forgotten" AS19. I'd
                  have no choice but to purchase the plans for a stretched AS19: a less
                  involved AS29 (and cheaper), sort of an Ostar Class 4 30-footer with
                  leeboards, and enough belly for internal ballast - beachable,
                  seaworthy, nearly the useable deck space of an equivalent sized but
                  more expensive poly catamaran (and maybe more habitable interior
                  volume), perhaps retaining a smaller ballast reduced daggerboard to
                  allay any fears of undertaking the hop accross larger ponds.

                  (Robert Ayliffe (formerly Duckflat Wooden Boats) has just written of
                  his return crossing of treacherous Bass Straight in his 23' Bruce
                  Kirby designed Norwalk Islands Sharpie, at times seeing 17.5 knots
                  surfing in 40-plus knot winds, and mentioned in passing of Chris Nye's
                  eventful more open crossing some time ago in a Martha Jane and raised
                  the questionable stability of that design. A long "AS19" would rip.)

                  Graeme


                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The AS19 is kind of a "forgotten" design. The very pure "seas of peas"
                  > hull - I would think turns off a lot of people - but results in a fast
                  > boat.
                • nels
                  ... WHALEWATCHER would lose all the above-mentioned. Funny that some crazy joey from down under hasn t built one of those babies. Nels
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jul 23, 2007
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm precipitously close to getting the plans for "forgotten" AS19. I'd
                    > have no choice but to purchase the plans for a stretched AS19: a less
                    > involved AS29 (and cheaper), sort of an Ostar Class 4 30-footer with
                    > leeboards, and enough belly for internal ballast - beachable,
                    > seaworthy, nearly the useable deck space of an equivalent sized but
                    > more expensive poly catamaran (and maybe more habitable interior
                    > volume), perhaps retaining a smaller ballast reduced daggerboard to
                    > allay any fears of undertaking the hop accross larger ponds.
                    >
                    > (Robert Ayliffe (formerly Duckflat Wooden Boats) has just written of
                    > his return crossing of treacherous Bass Straight in his 23' Bruce
                    > Kirby designed Norwalk Islands Sharpie, at times seeing 17.5 knots
                    > surfing in 40-plus knot winds, and mentioned in passing of Chris Nye's
                    > eventful more open crossing some time ago in a Martha Jane and raised
                    > the questionable stability of that design. A long "AS19" would rip.)
                    >
                    > Graeme

                    WHALEWATCHER would lose all the above-mentioned. Funny that some crazy
                    joey from down under hasn't built one of those babies.

                    Nels
                  • Bruce Hallman
                    ... I didn t know that Bolger had plans for a stretched AS19 . If you are thinking of asking them to create plans for a stretched AS19, you can ask, but be
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jul 24, 2007
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                      > I'd have no choice but to purchase the plans for a stretched AS19:

                      I didn't know that Bolger had plans for a 'stretched AS19'.

                      If you are thinking of asking them to create plans for a stretched
                      AS19, you can ask, but be aware that their backlog of delivery of
                      design work is several years long already.

                      Still, building a 'per plans' stock AS-19 seems like an excellent idea.
                    • nels
                      ... Before ordering or modifying AS19 plans it might be worth considering what Jim Michalak did with the AS19.
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jul 24, 2007
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                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > If you are thinking of asking them to create plans for a stretched
                        > AS19, you can ask, but be aware that their backlog of delivery of
                        > design work is several years long already.
                        >
                        > Still, building a 'per plans' stock AS-19 seems like an excellent idea.
                        >
                        Before ordering or modifying AS19 plans it might be worth considering
                        what Jim Michalak did with the AS19.

                        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox2/index.htm

                        Just imagine having Phil Bolger telling you your boat plan was too
                        ugly to sell!

                        Not that it seems to have bothered Jim a bit as he came up with even
                        another - "Navigator" version - that to me is not very pretty either.

                        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm

                        Actually I find a lot to like about this boat with it's three distinct
                        areas, stand-up shelter, and stern to bow
                        walk-through-and-step-onto-the-beach capability.

                        So you are an eyesore to the million dollar property lot owners you
                        cruise past. That might even add to the enjoyment:-)

                        Would look great rafted up next to a Super Brick.

                        Nels
                      • John Kohnen
                        Jim Michalak was inspired by AS-10 when he designed his Jewelbox: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/ He writes somewhere that he doesn t think the
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jul 24, 2007
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                          Jim Michalak was inspired by AS-10 when he designed his Jewelbox:

                          http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/

                          He writes somewhere that he doesn't think the slight flare (10 deg.) of
                          Jewelbox's sides compromises the "Sea of Peas" theory.

                          On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:47:52 -0700, Bruce H wrote:

                          > I didn't know that Bolger had plans for a 'stretched AS19'.
                          > ...
                          > Still, building a 'per plans' stock AS-19 seems like an excellent idea.

                          --
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                          History is a vast early warning system. <Norman Cousins>
                        • graeme19121984
                          AS19, though mostly a daysailer, can shed dumping, swamping, green water and reliably return after rolling a fair way past beam ends, whereas, it appears to
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jul 24, 2007
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                            AS19, though mostly a daysailer, can shed dumping, swamping, green
                            water and reliably return after rolling a fair way past beam ends,
                            whereas, it appears to me, the JUKEBOXEs are meant more as protected
                            water cruisers and couldn't take the dumping nor excessive rolling.
                            WHALEWATCHER is similar, perhaps the "cabin" could be built
                            permanently watertight and it would be more safe for unprotected
                            waters, but then there is the type of MARTHA JANE water ballasted
                            stability issue that counters confidence.

                            I like the simplicity, and many other features, of the Class IV
                            OSTAR Racer #543 - not least, the shoestring building budget - the
                            lack of below deck standing head room doesn't worry me - BUT I wish
                            it were more beachable.

                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerCartoons/files/Class%20lV%
                            20Ostar%20Racer/

                            The beachable AS29 is nowhere near as offshore capable hence we hear
                            of AS34 in the pipeline - BUT, there will be foam, steel plates,
                            complication, and it won't all come together with a shoestring.

                            So I'd like to see the Class IV OSTAR Racer #543 with some of the
                            AS19 to it, like better thin water capabilities and perhaps a more
                            moderate cruising cat yawl sailplan - or the other way around, if
                            you will, ie a 350% bigger AS19.

                            No, I'm not about to commission alterations from PB&F, for the
                            reasons Bruce gave. Maybe after a good go in an AS19 I might
                            though ;-)

                            So far as beauty and the AS19 are concerned:

                            1) it's in the eye of the beholder, of course

                            2) Bolger has said he is no fanatic and will give the market what it
                            wants though the market be ignorant of what is lost

                            3) astern and beam-on the view isn't bad, it's the open mouthed bow
                            that jars. To my eye garvey bows can look alright, and if concerned
                            enough to do that then ya could just go the reverse curve to the
                            upper bow as on Le Cabotin/Anemone #576 - or a bit of both.

                            4)If boat looks are required to "inspire" a sail then was it a sail
                            that was wanted after all? Rather it's looks toward the horizon or
                            finnish line - the knowledge of how far the sailer might go and how
                            good the trip may be that inspire. A look at the bank balance may be
                            in order too ;-)

                            Graeme



                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > If you are thinking of asking them to create plans for a
                            stretched
                            > > AS19, you can ask, but be aware that their backlog of delivery of
                            > > design work is several years long already.
                            > >
                            > > Still, building a 'per plans' stock AS-19 seems like an
                            excellent idea.
                            > >
                            > Before ordering or modifying AS19 plans it might be worth
                            considering
                            > what Jim Michalak did with the AS19.
                            >
                            > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox2/index.htm
                            >
                            > Just imagine having Phil Bolger telling you your boat plan was too
                            > ugly to sell!
                            >
                            > Not that it seems to have bothered Jim a bit as he came up with
                            even
                            > another - "Navigator" version - that to me is not very pretty
                            either.
                            >
                            > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm
                            >
                            > Actually I find a lot to like about this boat with it's three
                            distinct
                            > areas, stand-up shelter, and stern to bow
                            > walk-through-and-step-onto-the-beach capability.
                            >
                            > So you are an eyesore to the million dollar property lot owners you
                            > cruise past. That might even add to the enjoyment:-)
                            >
                            > Would look great rafted up next to a Super Brick.
                            >
                            > Nels
                            >
                          • nels
                            ... Hmmm - I have to wonder what has lead to these perceived differences? I do know that Michalak, since he is an inland lake sailer and has no desire to do
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jul 25, 2007
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                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > AS19, though mostly a daysailer, can shed dumping, swamping, green
                              > water and reliably return after rolling a fair way past beam ends,
                              > whereas, it appears to me, the JUKEBOXEs are meant more as protected
                              > water cruisers and couldn't take the dumping nor excessive rolling.

                              Hmmm - I have to wonder what has lead to these perceived differences?

                              I do know that Michalak, since he is an inland lake sailer and has no
                              desire to do otherwise, is very conservative in suggesting how
                              seaworthy his designs - as is Bolger too.

                              In his building book Jim provides a lot of information on how to
                              improve floatation and hatch security etc., and many of his designs
                              have been water tested as to their ability to self-right from 90
                              degree knock-downs. Built as designed the JB's seem quite secure to
                              me, with the possible exception of closing up the slot - which he also
                              addresses in his building book.

                              Nels
                            • John Kohnen
                              I don t know about Jukebox, but the Jewelboxes, Sr. and Jr. can take a knockdown. They re not bluewater boats, of course, but with the companionway drop boards
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jul 26, 2007
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                                I don't know about Jukebox, but the Jewelboxes, Sr. and Jr. can take a
                                knockdown. They're not bluewater boats, of course, but with the
                                companionway drop boards in they could take quite a bit of water on the
                                decks without a disaster.

                                http://members.fortunecity.com/duckworks/2002/1115/index.htm

                                I now own Sage, the boat in the article. Rick told me he'd never scooped
                                water up with the bow well. But he'd never been motoring in the square
                                waves caused by a brisk wind against the current of the Columbia River and
                                then met the wake of a big motoryacht on top of that. <g> The bow dipped
                                into a wave and flung up a bucketful of water. I could see it hanging in
                                the air for an instant before it blew back right into my face! ;o( But
                                that was particularly confused seas, and if I'd had the forward drop board
                                in I probably would only have got some spray in my face. The bow lifted
                                just fine with its load of water and the boat wasn't slowed down. The bow
                                is usually quite a ways above water, especially when heeling.

                                On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:58:10 -0700, graeme wrote:

                                >
                                > AS19, though mostly a daysailer, can shed dumping, swamping, green
                                > water and reliably return after rolling a fair way past beam ends,
                                > whereas, it appears to me, the JUKEBOXEs are meant more as protected
                                > water cruisers and couldn't take the dumping nor excessive rolling.
                                > WHALEWATCHER is similar, perhaps the "cabin" could be built
                                > permanently watertight and it would be more safe for unprotected
                                > waters, but then there is the type of MARTHA JANE water ballasted
                                > stability issue that counters confidence.
                                > ...

                                --
                                John <jkohnen@...>
                                A society that gets rid of all its troublemakers goes downhill.
                                <Robert A. Heinlein>
                              • graeme19121984
                                ... Nels and John, that s the key point. As crabbie-ceasar wrote I do love sailing my boat and would not hesitate to embark on a coastal cruise with well
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jul 26, 2007
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                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
                                  > They're not bluewater boats,

                                  Nels and John, that's the key point. As "crabbie-ceasar" wrote "I do
                                  love sailing my boat and would not hesitate to embark on a coastal
                                  cruise with well constructed AS19."

                                  While a bluewater boat may traverse protected waters with little risk,
                                  the reverse is problematical. I'ts not just wind knock down, but also
                                  being rolled by waves - while not necessarily going out of sight of
                                  land, on just a coastal cruise there are bar crossings, for example,
                                  that can be nasty when otherwise the local weather is fine.

                                  If "compromised" on a bar it would be nice to be in a boat that could
                                  shrug it off and get way on out of the zone.

                                  Graeme
                                • cabbie_caesar
                                  Graeme, Sorry for the late reply - I ve just come off shift and I m now back home. I would ask you why do you want an AS19? This boat is designed for shoal
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jul 29, 2007
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                                    Graeme,

                                    Sorry for the late reply - I've just come off shift and I'm now back
                                    home.

                                    I would ask you why do you want an AS19? This boat is designed for
                                    shoal water sailing and many compromises have been made in its design
                                    to realize this criterion. The rudder is short and can be
                                    overpowered by the main. Lee boards can be a handful in heavy seas.
                                    The open bow scoops copious quantities of water in the steep chop of
                                    Great South Bay, greatly slowing progress to windward. Bow slap at
                                    anchor in open water will prevent most from getting a restful sleep
                                    below.

                                    If your primary sailing program involves shoal water sailing, this
                                    boat will brilliantly fulfill you needs. Nothing is more fun than to
                                    skim past wading clammers under the press of full sails. I've pushed
                                    her up creeks. I've sailed her onto beaches and unloaded her crew
                                    like a landing craft unloading a complement of Marines. The rig can
                                    be lowered on the water to allow you to sneak under a causeway. The
                                    genus of Bolger's design is that the AS19 still remains fairly
                                    capable offshore.

                                    To answer your specific questions:

                                    The boat sails very well to windward in smooth to mildly choppy
                                    water. I say this as long as we are comparing it to other gaff
                                    rigged shoal draft boats like a Cape Cod Catboat. I have raced it in
                                    my local yacht club series, and came in last every time! Compared to
                                    keel boats I don't go upwind too well. I can easily sail 45 degrees
                                    to the wind and make way if the bow doesn't scoop water.

                                    Deciding to reef is based more on the amount of mast and boom bending
                                    you can stand looking at, than on the amount of heeling or weather
                                    helm. Remember, the mizzen is balancing the helm, but you won't be
                                    able to bear away with the full main over powering the rudder in
                                    winds over 15 knots. So you'll reef, or in an emergency you will
                                    drop the peak of the main (scandalizing) by lowering the gaff. The
                                    boat sails exceptionally well in this configuration in high winds.

                                    If building this boat I would modify the bow and give up the easy
                                    unloading at the beach. You would need to give great thought to how
                                    you would climb aboard if swimming, or self rescue if you should fall
                                    off. The bow opening is the only place to climb aboard from the
                                    water. You won't be able to use the stern well because the outboard
                                    will fill the available space; I use a short shaft Yamaha 4
                                    horsepower motor. The bow well and opening is also used to store and
                                    deploy the anchor. I would consult Mr. Bolger on any modifications
                                    to his design. I would suggest putting a foot hold in the leeboards
                                    to use as a ladder when deployed.

                                    I do love the control of the boats heading and balance afforded by
                                    the mizzen sail. Do follow Bolger's admonishment to have this sail
                                    cut flat. The first sail up is always the mizzen. Bungee the tiller
                                    to weather and sheet the mizzen to the desired attitude, the boat
                                    will stay as if parked while you prepare the main or have lunch.
                                    Occasionally, a large wave may knock you off - just reset. The
                                    mizzen arrangement reduces the need for an autopilot; Bungee the
                                    tiller and adjust your heading with the mizzen sheet and you will
                                    remain on course for miles – don't fall off!

                                    Under power the open bow and the flat bottom is more of a liability
                                    than while sailing. The hard chine effectively makes the hull a vee
                                    shape when heeling while sailing. This feature is lost while the
                                    hull is level - scooping water and heavy pounding will slow windward
                                    progress in heavy seas. Additionally the motor propeller does
                                    cavitate during heavy pitching. You should only consider powering
                                    while close quarter maneuvering or in calm conditions. Hull speed
                                    appears to be around 4.4 knots - you won't go faster.

                                    Rigging the boat can go very quickly if you prepare. I used rope
                                    parrels to attach the main to the mast, just make sure to slip them
                                    onto the mast before stepping. Tie on both the gaff and main
                                    halyards and you're mostly ready. My mizzen is laced to its mast,
                                    and so both the sail and spar are stepped together. Plug in the boom
                                    kin and rig both main and mizzen sheets to complete your setup.

                                    Mike's boat WAS ventilated with a drilled PVC pipe installed between
                                    ports cut in the hull sides. The idea being that the perforations
                                    are drilled in the pipe above the water line when the boat is on its
                                    beam ends. I did not like this arrangement and removed the piping.
                                    I the installed clear Beckson screw ports in the cut outs. Now I
                                    have light in the cabin and can remove the covers while anchored for
                                    comfort. Make a small dodger over the main hatch secured by snaps at
                                    the perimeter and supported by bows and you may be able to achieve
                                    standing head room in the cabin.

                                    There is plenty of room in the cabin to accommodate a couple and
                                    their gear while cruising. Yes, you do have to rearrange things to
                                    sleep, like putting the potty in the cockpit for the night.
                                    Amazingly, a full size air mattress fits perfectly on the floor of
                                    the cabin for a very comfortable rest.

                                    Good luck,

                                    cabbie


                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for the information. It's interesting to read your positive
                                    > comments, particularly about the AS19 capability for coastal
                                    > cruising. How have you found it for beating to windward? How close
                                    > to the wind are you able to sail; any closer when reefed? How does
                                    > she go under power, and what's the fuel consumption like? Apart
                                    from
                                    > the difficulty you have with mast weight, how quick is it to rig,
                                    > and launch - and retrieve?
                                    >
                                    > Do you think the garvey bow suggested by PCB would be really much
                                    of
                                    > an improvement? Maybe it would push down some of that green water?
                                    > Worth the trouble?
                                    >
                                    > It's very interesting that you're able to sail overcanvassed in 20
                                    > knots without ever a knockdown. How might it go heaved to in 30 to
                                    > 40 knots? How does it heave to in more tolerable wind, say, while
                                    > the crew are below having lunch?
                                    >
                                    > I've had that port profile photo of Mike Stockstill's Orpheo on the
                                    > desktop for a week or two, and will say that the looks do become
                                    > acceptable. http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as19.htm
                                    >
                                    > Oh, another question if you don't mind, how is the cabin and the
                                    > rest of the interior ventilated when the hatch is closed? Ive not
                                    > seen any other openings in the few photos available, nor in the
                                    > cartoons.
                                    >
                                    > Cheers
                                    > Graeme
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > My AS19 is a wonderfull shorthanded sail boat. I have sailed it
                                    > many
                                    > > times overcanvased in 15-20 knots of wind and have never been
                                    > knocked
                                    > > down. As for sitting "down in the cockpit" that is impossible.
                                    > The
                                    > > cockpit is a long foot well, you sit up high on the deck just
                                    > below
                                    > > the
                                    > > shear. I do have one of those articulating seat cushions from
                                    > West
                                    > > Marine to sit on for back support and that has proven to be very
                                    > > comfortable. When sailing with a crew the cabin bulkhead makes a
                                    > > nice
                                    > > place to rest against.
                                    > >
                                    > > The number one hinderence for a single handed sailor would be
                                    > heavy
                                    > > spars. Make them light especially the mast, mine must weigh
                                    every
                                    > > bit of 100
                                    > > pounds and can be a bear to lift. You can forget about the
                                    dodger
                                    > by
                                    > > the time spray becomes a problem I have green water sweeping down
                                    > the
                                    > > deck. I don't mean this as a knock, but the boat is only 19 feet
                                    > so
                                    > > small craft warnings should be heeded.
                                    > >
                                    > > I am not the builder of my boat so I can't answer too many
                                    > questions
                                    > > about it's construction, but I do love sailing my boat and would
                                    > not
                                    > > hesitate to embark on a coastal cruise with well constructed AS19.
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Are crew sitting on the widward side deck necessary for good
                                    > > sailing
                                    > > > performance?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > That is, for single handing, could the skipper sit lower down,
                                    > > actually
                                    > > > in the cockpit and laid back in a gimballed chair for long
                                    > hours,
                                    > > or,
                                    > > > like Roger Keyes, in a suitably adjusted bean bag? Perhaps a
                                    > > > bimini/spray dodger could also be fitted?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Any thoughts anyone? Would AS19 heel too much?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > If you're there, Mike, or Patrick, what do you think?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Graeme
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • graeme19121984
                                    Cabbie, ... back ... mate, not at all. It is I who must say sorry for not responding straight away after reading your wonderful reply yesterday. That s a
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jul 30, 2007
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                                      Cabbie,

                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > Sorry for the late reply - I've just come off shift and I'm now
                                      back
                                      > home.

                                      mate, not at all. It is I who must say sorry for not responding
                                      straight away after reading your wonderful reply yesterday. That's a
                                      fantastic post about this design and it still leaves me wondering.
                                      There is much to consider in what you wrote and... I'm still
                                      considering... I'm not sure what to say - the fullness of your
                                      appraisal took me by surprise. No doubt once I digest things I'll
                                      probably have even more queries... again... sorry.

                                      For now: you "ask... why do you want an AS19?" Good question. I
                                      detect from your experience with the boat you've seen something in
                                      my wants/needs list that doesn't quite accord with selecting this
                                      design. I don't know what that is, other than I don't think I can
                                      quite have a bigger boat right now. I've read the little previously
                                      available on AS19's performance and thought it quite good - you
                                      know - speed, handling, etc. I knew there's not a lot of space, but
                                      thought for one or two, for a few weeks or so, that would do. It's
                                      not an open ocean long distance voyager, but struck me as relatively
                                      bouyant, and seaworthy, with precautions, in all but the worst of
                                      weather. I admit I've been influenced by Chapelle's comments on the
                                      coastal sailing garveys here. I like the potential, I suspected, to
                                      safely coastwise cruise through the long oceanic swells, crossed
                                      with the ability to ably traverse extremely skinny waters. I love
                                      the very easy construction, trailerability, gaff furling/reefing and
                                      scandalizing, and more; was concerned by the freeboard, on watch
                                      crew comfort and exposure (hot humid and sun mostly but some winter
                                      cold here too), pointing ability, and more too.

                                      You wrote "If your primary sailing program involves shoal water
                                      sailing, this boat will brilliantly fulfill you needs." Oh, there's
                                      plenty of that, plenty. Mud flats, sand banks, coral reefs, lakes,
                                      rivers, but there also are more open crossings. For example, besides
                                      coastal cruising, some bays are quite protected and shallow at one
                                      end, but the other may be rougher than the ocean coast at times -
                                      and those islands do beckon.

                                      I would have thought AS19 went faster than 4.4 knots. Is it faster
                                      under sail when the hull is heeled? There's a worry :~?

                                      "Mike's boat WAS ventilated with a drilled PVC pipe installed
                                      between ports cut in the hull sides." Ah-ha, I wondered what that
                                      was. Thought it a kind of rack for stretching occy cords between to
                                      provide gear stowage, or for pegging up wet things to dry!

                                      "Bungee the tiller to weather and sheet the mizzen to the desired
                                      attitude, the boat will stay as if parked while you prepare the main
                                      or have lunch." - that's a very desirable quality :-)

                                      You've mentioned many other points, good and bad, that require more
                                      pondering. Yet I am reassured in my overall original impressions
                                      that this boat could do for me.

                                      Thanks again for rounding out the knowledge about this design from
                                      your first hand experience. Sounds to me like AS19 has provided you
                                      with lots of fun and enjoyment. Great.

                                      Cheers
                                      Graeme
                                    • Bruce Hallman
                                      The AS-19 sounds just perfect for sailing the vast southern shallows of San Francisco Bay. In theory, hull speed of a 19 foot LWL displacement hull is 5.84
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jul 31, 2007
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                                        The AS-19 sounds just perfect for sailing the vast southern shallows
                                        of San Francisco Bay.

                                        In theory, hull speed of a 19 foot LWL displacement hull is 5.84
                                        knots, and the AS-19 is certainly a displacement hull considering that
                                        it has rather large 500 pound chunk of lead as ballast. I want one!
                                      • John Kohnen
                                        I m surprised that AS19 doesn t go faster than 4.4 knots. My Jewelbox, Jr. with a similar hull shape and much shorter waterline length does better than that.
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Aug 1, 2007
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                                          I'm surprised that AS19 doesn't go faster than 4.4 knots. My Jewelbox, Jr.
                                          with a similar hull shape and much shorter waterline length does better
                                          than that. <shrug> In fact, I don't believe it (sorry Cabbie). JB, Jr's
                                          "sea of peas" hull gets up to 4.5-4.6 knots easily, but won't go much
                                          faster than that (though the GPS batteries were dead the day I was trying
                                          her out in mid-20 mph winds). The deep rocker seems to keep her from
                                          easily pushing past theoretical hull speed. Hull speed for AS19 is
                                          probably at least 5 knots, and I'd expect her to easily reach that speed.

                                          BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
                                          4-stroke in calm conditions.

                                          On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:58:34 -0700, graeme wrote:

                                          > ...
                                          > I would have thought AS19 went faster than 4.4 knots. Is it faster
                                          > under sail when the hull is heeled? There's a worry :~?
                                          > ...

                                          --
                                          John <jkohnen@...>
                                          People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading. <Logan
                                          Pearsall Smith>
                                        • graeme19121984
                                          Hi John, ... That seems to accord with what Ryerson found for his Windsprint Tri. IIRC beam seemed the greatest limiter, but the large rocker pushed up too big
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Aug 1, 2007
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                                            Hi John,

                                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
                                            > The deep rocker seems to keep her from easily pushing past
                                            > theoretical hull speed. Hull speed for AS19 is probably at least 5
                                            > knots, and I'd expect her to easily reach that speed.

                                            That seems to accord with what Ryerson found for his Windsprint Tri.
                                            IIRC beam seemed the greatest limiter, but the large rocker pushed up
                                            too big a wave to climb over. (He said it was still fairly quick in any
                                            case and made a great cruiser and camper.)

                                            > BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
                                            > 4-stroke in calm conditions.

                                            Gee, that is smokin'

                                            Graeme
                                          • Rob Rohde-Szudy
                                            Weight matters, and I bet Jewelbox is quite a bit lighter that AS19. Michalak tends to design light compared to Bolger, in general. --Rob Re: Shorthanded
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Aug 1, 2007
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                                              Weight matters, and I bet Jewelbox is quite a bit lighter that AS19. Michalak tends to design light compared to Bolger, in general.
                                              --Rob



                                              Re: Shorthanded Cruising AS19
                                              Posted by: "John Kohnen" jhkohnen@... jhkohnen
                                              Date: Wed Aug 1, 2007 4:10 am ((PDT))

                                              I'm surprised that AS19 doesn't go faster than 4.4 knots. My Jewelbox,
                                              Jr.
                                              with a similar hull shape and much shorter waterline length does better

                                              than that. <shrug> In fact, I don't believe it (sorry Cabbie). JB,
                                              Jr's
                                              "sea of peas" hull gets up to 4.5-4.6 knots easily, but won't go much
                                              faster than that (though the GPS batteries were dead the day I was
                                              trying
                                              her out in mid-20 mph winds). The deep rocker seems to keep her from
                                              easily pushing past theoretical hull speed. Hull speed for AS19 is
                                              probably at least 5 knots, and I'd expect her to easily reach that
                                              speed.

                                              BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
                                              4-stroke in calm conditions.




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                                            • cabbie_caesar
                                              Gentlemen, I do have to clarify my statement about boat speed: I do not have a GPS or any other speed measuring equipment; I don t even sail with a watch. The
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Aug 1, 2007
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                                                Gentlemen,

                                                I do have to clarify my statement about boat speed:

                                                I do not have a GPS or any other speed measuring equipment; I don't
                                                even sail with a watch.

                                                The first year I had the boat I was paced by Don S...on his Pearson
                                                40 something. He reported 4.4 knots, and after thinking about that
                                                day, the wind was light. I was sailing on a close reach in smooth
                                                water on starboard tack; the wind was certainly less than 10 knots,
                                                but I'm not sure how much less. Don did remark that he was quite
                                                impressed with my speed in those conditions.

                                                Regarding the yacht club series, I did hold my own on the off wind
                                                legs. Of course I did not make up the deficit lost up wind. This is
                                                by no means a knock about sailing performance, as I am not wanting
                                                for more (complexity). As to speed under power I assumed that my 4
                                                hp. motor could reach hull speed; perhaps it did not. It does push
                                                the boat fast enough that the stern wave will flood the aft well.

                                                Should I edit my prior post, or will this message be a sufficient
                                                correction?

                                                cabbie

                                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Cabbie,
                                                >
                                                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@>
                                                > wrote:
                                                > > Sorry for the late reply - I've just come off shift and I'm now
                                                > back
                                                > > home.
                                                >
                                                > mate, not at all. It is I who must say sorry for not responding
                                                > straight away after reading your wonderful reply yesterday. That's
                                                a
                                                > fantastic post about this design and it still leaves me wondering.
                                                > There is much to consider in what you wrote and... I'm still
                                                > considering... I'm not sure what to say - the fullness of your
                                                > appraisal took me by surprise. No doubt once I digest things I'll
                                                > probably have even more queries... again... sorry.
                                                >
                                                > For now: you "ask... why do you want an AS19?" Good question. I
                                                > detect from your experience with the boat you've seen something in
                                                > my wants/needs list that doesn't quite accord with selecting this
                                                > design. I don't know what that is, other than I don't think I can
                                                > quite have a bigger boat right now. I've read the little previously
                                                > available on AS19's performance and thought it quite good - you
                                                > know - speed, handling, etc. I knew there's not a lot of space, but
                                                > thought for one or two, for a few weeks or so, that would do. It's
                                                > not an open ocean long distance voyager, but struck me as
                                                relatively
                                                > bouyant, and seaworthy, with precautions, in all but the worst of
                                                > weather. I admit I've been influenced by Chapelle's comments on the
                                                > coastal sailing garveys here. I like the potential, I suspected, to
                                                > safely coastwise cruise through the long oceanic swells, crossed
                                                > with the ability to ably traverse extremely skinny waters. I love
                                                > the very easy construction, trailerability, gaff furling/reefing
                                                and
                                                > scandalizing, and more; was concerned by the freeboard, on watch
                                                > crew comfort and exposure (hot humid and sun mostly but some winter
                                                > cold here too), pointing ability, and more too.
                                                >
                                                > You wrote "If your primary sailing program involves shoal water
                                                > sailing, this boat will brilliantly fulfill you needs." Oh,
                                                there's
                                                > plenty of that, plenty. Mud flats, sand banks, coral reefs, lakes,
                                                > rivers, but there also are more open crossings. For example,
                                                besides
                                                > coastal cruising, some bays are quite protected and shallow at one
                                                > end, but the other may be rougher than the ocean coast at times -
                                                > and those islands do beckon.
                                                >
                                                > I would have thought AS19 went faster than 4.4 knots. Is it faster
                                                > under sail when the hull is heeled? There's a worry :~?
                                                >
                                                > "Mike's boat WAS ventilated with a drilled PVC pipe installed
                                                > between ports cut in the hull sides." Ah-ha, I wondered what that
                                                > was. Thought it a kind of rack for stretching occy cords between
                                                to
                                                > provide gear stowage, or for pegging up wet things to dry!
                                                >
                                                > "Bungee the tiller to weather and sheet the mizzen to the desired
                                                > attitude, the boat will stay as if parked while you prepare the
                                                main
                                                > or have lunch." - that's a very desirable quality :-)
                                                >
                                                > You've mentioned many other points, good and bad, that require more
                                                > pondering. Yet I am reassured in my overall original impressions
                                                > that this boat could do for me.
                                                >
                                                > Thanks again for rounding out the knowledge about this design from
                                                > your first hand experience. Sounds to me like AS19 has provided you
                                                > with lots of fun and enjoyment. Great.
                                                >
                                                > Cheers
                                                > Graeme
                                                >
                                              • graeme19121984
                                                ... Way to go - tide, sun, sky... Hi Cabbie: Thanks much for the update. I gather from that reaching performance in less than 10 knots that one of the single
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Aug 1, 2007
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                                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  > I don't even sail with a watch.


                                                  Way to go - tide, sun, sky...


                                                  Hi Cabbie:

                                                  Thanks much for the update.

                                                  I gather from that reaching performance in less than 10 knots that
                                                  one of the single luff flat reaching spinnakers that PCB's fond of
                                                  wouldn't add very much to speed, and they're not good close hauled.
                                                  Hmm, even though they look fairly uncomplicated less complexity does
                                                  the job quite acceptably, hey.

                                                  > Should I edit my prior post, or will this message be a sufficient
                                                  > correction?

                                                  My twopence. IMO there's no need to edit your earlier post. If
                                                  people are searching the subject in future they'll at least scan the
                                                  whole thread, I would think.

                                                  Cheers
                                                  Graeme
                                                • John Kohnen
                                                  Hah! I thought so! You weren t getting the optimum horsepower from the wind when you were clocked. Most people lie about how their boats go _faster_ than
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Aug 2, 2007
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                                                    Hah! I thought so! <g> You weren't getting the optimum horsepower from the
                                                    wind when you were clocked. Most people lie about how their boats go
                                                    _faster_ than they really will. ;o) I've been impressed by how well my
                                                    Jewelbox, Jr. moves in light breezes. In the lightest airs I suspect that
                                                    the high rig (20' 8" mast) catches some of the stronger breeze above the
                                                    friction of the water, and the deep rocker has less surface area, and thus
                                                    skin friction, than a flat-bottom boat with flatter rocker. When the
                                                    breeze gets a little stronger the "sea of peas" shape kicks in and she
                                                    moves along real nice but, in moderate breezes at least, I haven't got her
                                                    past maybe 4.6 knots. <shrug> I'll have to check the batteries in my GPS
                                                    and take her out on a breezy day on the local mudhole (the Thistle
                                                    nationals are being held there this week, and every afternoon the wind has
                                                    been gusting into the mid to high 20 mph range! Probably too much
                                                    excitement in a racing dinghy <g>). My 15' sailing skiff, with a slightly
                                                    longer waterline length and much flatter rocker, has little trouble going
                                                    a little faster than theoretical hull speed (given a good wind, she's
                                                    undercanvased for use on the windy Oregon Coast), but the JB, Jr.
                                                    struggles to get past hull speed...

                                                    A curious thing is how fast Sage goes under power. That 3.5 Tohatsu is
                                                    more power than she _needs_, but she somehow manages to make us of it.
                                                    <shrug> I've never got my skiff to go as fast under power as she'll sail,
                                                    even using a 4 hp. engine, she just wants to dig her stern in... I would
                                                    have expected that the flatter rockered skiff would outdo the heavily
                                                    rockered JB, Jr.

                                                    BTW, I got the Tohatsu because for the same price as a 2 hp. Honda I could
                                                    get an engine with water cooling and a real (dog) clutch. On Sage, a
                                                    cruising boat, the extra weight doesn't matter much.

                                                    On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:49:39 -0700, cabbie wrote:

                                                    > ...
                                                    > I do have to clarify my statement about boat speed:
                                                    >
                                                    > I do not have a GPS or any other speed measuring equipment; I don't
                                                    > even sail with a watch.
                                                    >
                                                    > The first year I had the boat I was paced by Don S...on his Pearson
                                                    > 40 something. He reported 4.4 knots, and after thinking about that
                                                    > day, the wind was light. I was sailing on a close reach in smooth
                                                    > water on starboard tack; the wind was certainly less than 10 knots,
                                                    > but I'm not sure how much less. Don did remark that he was quite
                                                    > impressed with my speed in those conditions.
                                                    > ...

                                                    --
                                                    John <jkohnen@...>
                                                    All the troubles of man come from his not knowing how to sit
                                                    still. <Blaise Pascal>
                                                  • John Kohnen
                                                    Weight matters, but not as much at displacement speeds. It may take less wind to push a JB, Jr. to hull speed than it does to push a heavier AS19 to hull
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Aug 2, 2007
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                                                      Weight matters, but not as much at displacement speeds. It may take less
                                                      wind to push a JB, Jr. to hull speed than it does to push a heavier AS19
                                                      to hull speed, but unless the AS19 is severely undercanvased it shouldn't
                                                      take a living gale to provide more than enough horsepower to get her
                                                      there. <g>

                                                      On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 07:05:23 -0700, Rob R-S wrote:

                                                      > Weight matters, and I bet Jewelbox is quite a bit lighter that AS19.
                                                      > Michalak tends to design light compared to Bolger, in general.

                                                      --
                                                      John <jkohnen@...>
                                                      History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in
                                                      times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant
                                                      to endure. <Thurgood Marshall>
                                                    • John Kohnen
                                                      What s really smokin is the almost 7 knots Bob Larkin s Birdwatcher 2 makes with a 2 hp. Honda! Maybe I m misremembering, but the day he first launched her we
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Aug 2, 2007
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                                                        What's really smokin' is the almost 7 knots Bob Larkin's Birdwatcher 2
                                                        makes with a 2 hp. Honda! Maybe I'm misremembering, but the day he first
                                                        launched her we had trouble keeping ahead of her in an overloaded Scandal
                                                        skiff with 4 hp. <g>

                                                        http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594264491186/

                                                        On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:53:13 -0700, graeme wrote:

                                                        >> BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
                                                        >> 4-stroke in calm conditions.
                                                        >
                                                        > Gee, that is smokin'

                                                        --
                                                        John <jkohnen@...>
                                                        Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
                                                        It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
                                                        <William Pitt>
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