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Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro

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  • Martin Roberts
    Hi, For the first time today I finished a race with my local club and I was wondering what my handicap number should be. I have a Bolger micro with a non
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
      Hi,
      For the first time today I finished a race with my local club and I
      was wondering what my handicap number should be.

      I have a Bolger micro with a non standard junk rig.

      Would any one know what a standard micro handicap would be?


      Martin
    • Patrick Crockett
      On the same topic, I ve occasionally wondered about a Portsmouth (or other) rating for my Windsprint. And whether having a fully battened sail should influence
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
        On the same topic, I've occasionally wondered about a Portsmouth (or
        other) rating for my Windsprint. And whether having a fully battened
        sail should influence the rating. I sometimes think about getting out on
        the water with the local racing club, but am daunted by the lack of a
        rating.

        Patrick

        Martin Roberts wrote:
        > Hi,
        > For the first time today I finished a race with my local club and I
        > was wondering what my handicap number should be.
        >
        > I have a Bolger micro with a non standard junk rig.
        >
        > Would any one know what a standard micro handicap would be?
        >
        > Martin
      • derbyrm
        If you ve not had a fair amount of experience racing, the rating should be the last of your worries. Roger derbyrm@NOSPAMinsightbbNOSPAM.com
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
          If you've not had a fair amount of experience racing, the "rating" should be the last of your worries.

          Roger
          derbyrm@...
          http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Patrick Crockett
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 3:53 PM
          Subject: Re: [bolger] Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro


          On the same topic, I've occasionally wondered about a Portsmouth (or other) rating for my Windsprint. And whether having a fully battened sail should influence the rating. I sometimes think about getting out on the water with the local racing club, but am daunted by the lack of a rating.

          Patrick

          Martin Roberts wrote:
          > Hi,
          > For the first time today I finished a race with my local club and I
          > was wondering what my handicap number should be.
          >
          > I have a Bolger micro with a non standard junk rig.
          >
          > Would any one know what a standard micro handicap would be?
          >
          > Martin
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Patrick Crockett
          Well ... my crew would have absolutely no experience. And mine was 20 years ago in a sloop-rigged boat with spinnaker, so I m not at all sure how relevant it
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
            Well ... my crew would have absolutely no experience. And mine was 20
            years ago in a sloop-rigged boat with spinnaker, so I'm not at all sure
            how relevant it is. Perhaps you're right.

            Patrick

            derbyrm wrote:
            > If you've not had a fair amount of experience racing, the "rating" should be the last of your worries.
            >
            > Roger
            > derbyrm@...
            > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Patrick Crockett
            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 3:53 PM
            > Subject: Re: [bolger] Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro
            >
            >
            > On the same topic, I've occasionally wondered about a Portsmouth (or other) rating for my Windsprint. And whether having a fully battened sail should influence the rating. I sometimes think about getting out on the water with the local racing club, but am daunted by the lack of a rating.
            >
            > Patrick
            >
          • derbyrm
            I m think of such esoterica as Mast Abeam! Room at the Mark! Barging! and other such calls that I ve forgotten since thirty years ago. Just go out and
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
              I'm think of such esoterica as "Mast Abeam!" "Room at the Mark!" "Barging!" and other such calls that I've forgotten since thirty years ago. Just go out and have fun. The Protest Committee will explain them to you.

              Roger (and practice 720 degree turns)
              derbyrm@...
              http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Patrick Crockett
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:18 PM
              Subject: Re: [bolger] Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro


              Well ... my crew would have absolutely no experience. And mine was 20
              years ago in a sloop-rigged boat with spinnaker, so I'm not at all sure
              how relevant it is. Perhaps you're right.

              Patrick

              derbyrm wrote:
              > If you've not had a fair amount of experience racing, the "rating" should be the last of your worries.
              >
              > Roger
              > derbyrm@...
              > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Patrick Crockett
              > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 3:53 PM
              > Subject: Re: [bolger] Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro
              >
              >
              > On the same topic, I've occasionally wondered about a Portsmouth (or other) rating for my Windsprint. And whether having a fully battened sail should influence the rating. I sometimes think about getting out on the water with the local racing club, but am daunted by the lack of a rating.
              >
              > Patrick
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Martin Roberts
              I think some of you are missing the point. I sail because I ejoy sailing, I race occaisionally to help me imrpove my sailing - it focusses the mind on trying
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
                I think some of you are missing the point.

                I sail because I ejoy sailing, I race occaisionally to help me imrpove
                my sailing - it focusses the mind on trying to mak ethe most of the
                wind conditions.

                Todays race was a great example - at the start I pulled away from a
                Chebacco (Sylvester) as I was beating against the tide, _ I would have
                stopped for a chat without the race, bt it was good to se what the old
                tib can do. I plugged against the tide much longer than I woudl
                normally and amazingly was only a few minutes behind some
                larger 'yachts'. This was not the be all and end all of my sailing
                but I felt it was a triumph of Mr. Bolger's desin and my polytarp sail.

                All I was hoping was that someone might be able to give me a ball park
                figure that I can suggest to the club so next time I sail and finish
                (light winds and strong tides normally defeat me), I can be compared
                against the others and perhaps show them why I love my boat.

                Martin
              • Harry James
                The PHRF system is based more on data than design parameters (if I understand it right, an expert I am not). If enough of you micro owners would race than the
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
                  The PHRF system is based more on data than design parameters (if I
                  understand it right, an expert I am not). If enough of you micro owners
                  would race than the system would have enough info to assign you a
                  handicap. The problem in assigning a handicap to a Bolger design is it
                  is hard to get a grip on its speed relative to other designs because
                  they typically a. Don't race so there is no data and b. Don't have
                  features common to others out there already racing to make for a rough
                  comparison. You would have an easier time in the New England PHRF as
                  there appears to be more classic designs there that might provide some
                  basis for comparison. I personally think racing is a good thing, teaches
                  a lot quickly about sailing your boat well. I also think that it might
                  prove a good thing to find out how purpose designed boats like Bolger's
                  do in relative terms sailing against designed for market boats.

                  HJ

                  Martin Roberts wrote:
                  > I think some of you are missing the point.
                  >
                  > I sail because I ejoy sailing, I race occaisionally to help me imrpove
                  > my sailing - it focusses the mind on trying to mak ethe most of the
                  > wind conditions.
                  >
                  > Todays race was a great example - at the start I pulled away from a
                  > Chebacco (Sylvester) as I was beating against the tide, _ I would have
                  > stopped for a chat without the race, bt it was good to se what the old
                  > tib can do. I plugged against the tide much longer than I woudl
                  > normally and amazingly was only a few minutes behind some
                  > larger 'yachts'. This was not the be all and end all of my sailing
                  > but I felt it was a triumph of Mr. Bolger's desin and my polytarp sail.
                  >
                  > All I was hoping was that someone might be able to give me a ball park
                  > figure that I can suggest to the club so next time I sail and finish
                  > (light winds and strong tides normally defeat me), I can be compared
                  > against the others and perhaps show them why I love my boat.
                  >
                  > Martin
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • pvanderwaart
                  ... Well, Mast Abeam was eliminated from the rule book a decade ago, so some review of the rule would be a good idea. I don t think the Micro is going to
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
                    > I'm think of such esoterica as "Mast Abeam!"...

                    Well, Mast Abeam was eliminated from the rule book a decade ago, so
                    some review of the rule would be a good idea.

                    I don't think the Micro is going to qualify for true PHRF racing.
                    There minimum length requirements, as well as safety matters such as
                    self-bailing cockpits. However, local fleets extend or adapt PHRF for
                    club racing, which is probably what you are talking about. Any rating
                    will be completely subjective. "Are you faster than that boat over there?"

                    On the other hand (and this goes for the Windsprint, too), if there
                    are boats in the race that are more or less logically similar to the
                    one you want to race, they will probably be happy to have, and will
                    certainly be helpful if you call them up and ask.

                    Lots of clubs that race mixed fleets of not-very-racy boats use the
                    Portsmouth rating system. It's similar to PHRF, but the correction is
                    time-on-time, not time-on-distance. You can find some information at
                    www.ussailing.com.
                  • derbyrm
                    Well, my copy of the rules still has Mast Abeam, but it was published some 25 years ago. If there s any likelihood of joining an organized race, I ll have
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
                      Well, my copy of the rules still has "Mast Abeam," but it was published some 25 years ago. If there's any likelihood of joining an organized race, I'll have to buy a new edition.

                      When you're creeping past a boat that's to windward of you, how do you decide that he's become the burdened boat?

                      That said, anytime there are two sailboats in sight of one another, there's a race, unless they're going in opposite directions. Beating up to the entrance to the bay at the north end of Virgin Gorda, BVI, the other boat was well ahead, but he went to the lay line too early, we got the lift and we sailed in well ahead.

                      Roger
                      derbyrm@...
                      http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: pvanderwaart
                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:31 PM
                      Subject: [bolger] Re: Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro


                      > I'm think of such esoterica as "Mast Abeam!"...

                      Well, Mast Abeam was eliminated from the rule book a decade ago, so
                      some review of the rule would be a good idea.
                      Recent Activity
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Kristine Bennett
                      Also be warned racing sailboats is also a full contact sport!! Or at least that is what I have seen when I was working at Marine Service Center when they were
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
                        Also be warned racing sailboats is also a full contact
                        sport!! Or at least that is what I have seen when I
                        was working at Marine Service Center when they were in
                        Seattle. Some mondays we would have 5 boats to fix
                        that week so they could play the next weekend!

                        As for your handicap I wouldn't worry about it just go
                        out and enjoy being on the water!

                        Blessings Krissie

                        --- derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:

                        > I'm think of such esoterica as "Mast Abeam!" "Room
                        > at the Mark!" "Barging!" and other such calls that
                        > I've forgotten since thirty years ago. Just go out
                        > and have fun. The Protest Committee will explain
                        > them to you.
                        >



                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                        Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
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                      • derbyrm
                        Amen! As HSA Commodore, I had to tell the sailboard people they couldn t play with us unless they had lifejackets and lace-on shoes. I wanted them to have
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
                          Amen!

                          As HSA Commodore, I had to tell the sailboard people they couldn't play with us unless they had lifejackets and lace-on shoes. I wanted them to have helmets, but couldn't quite go that far. They weren't willing to wear anything but their swim trunks so they went away after much loud discussion and arm waving.

                          The game with the Sunfish was to get the sail right down on the deck. Even with a window in the sail, visibility was poor and in one race I had another boat in my lap. No damage except to the other fellow's ego and my spray shield.

                          Roger
                          derbyrm@...
                          http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Kristine Bennett
                          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:23 PM
                          Subject: Re: [bolger] Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro


                          Also be warned racing sailboats is also a full contact
                          sport!! Or at least that is what I have seen when I
                          was working at Marine Service Center when they were in
                          Seattle. Some mondays we would have 5 boats to fix
                          that week so they could play the next weekend!

                          As for your handicap I wouldn't worry about it just go
                          out and enjoy being on the water!

                          Blessings Krissie

                          --- derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:

                          > I'm think of such esoterica as "Mast Abeam!" "Room
                          > at the Mark!" "Barging!" and other such calls that
                          > I've forgotten since thirty years ago. Just go out
                          > and have fun. The Protest Committee will explain
                          > them to you.
                          >

                          __________________________________________________________
                          Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
                          http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • mannthree
                          Martin, I think its fantastic that you raced your Micro. How did it go? Have you any pics of the junk rig? What is the Sail area of the rig? Cheers, John
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
                            Martin,

                            I think its fantastic that you "raced" your Micro. How did it go?
                            Have you any pics of the junk rig? What is the Sail area of the rig?

                            Cheers,

                            John Mann

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Roberts" <martin.me.roberts@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi,
                            > For the first time today I finished a race with my local club and I
                            > was wondering what my handicap number should be.
                            >
                            > I have a Bolger micro with a non standard junk rig.
                            >
                            > Would any one know what a standard micro handicap would be?
                            >
                            >
                            > Martin
                            >
                          • Patrick Crockett
                            Once upon a time (way back when) in my club the catamaran racers all liked to fly a hull, but not all were equally capable of maneuvering on one hull. One
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
                              Once upon a time (way back when) in my club the catamaran racers all
                              liked to fly a hull, but not all were equally capable of maneuvering on
                              one hull. One harpooned a Sunfish sail. No injuries, except to the sail.

                              Patrick

                              derbyrm wrote:
                              > Amen!
                              >
                              > As HSA Commodore, I had to tell the sailboard people they couldn't play with us unless they had lifejackets and lace-on shoes. I wanted them to have helmets, but couldn't quite go that far. They weren't willing to wear anything but their swim trunks so they went away after much loud discussion and arm waving.
                              >
                              > The game with the Sunfish was to get the sail right down on the deck. Even with a window in the sail, visibility was poor and in one race I had another boat in my lap. No damage except to the other fellow's ego and my spray shield.
                              >
                              > Roger
                              > derbyrm@...
                              > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
                              >
                            • Nels
                              ... Photos of Applecross are here: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/photos/browse/5fed I think Martin had it up for sale at one point. Nice to see he
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jun 17, 2007
                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Martin,
                                >
                                > I think its fantastic that you "raced" your Micro. How did it go?
                                > Have you any pics of the junk rig? What is the Sail area of the rig?
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                >
                                > John Mann

                                Photos of Applecross are here:

                                http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/photos/browse/5fed

                                I think Martin had it up for sale at one point. Nice to see he has it
                                up for sailing now:-)

                                Nels
                              • mannthree
                                Thanks Nels, John
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jun 18, 2007
                                  Thanks Nels,

                                  John


                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Martin,
                                  > >
                                  > > I think its fantastic that you "raced" your Micro. How did it go?
                                  > > Have you any pics of the junk rig? What is the Sail area of the rig?
                                  > >
                                  > > Cheers,
                                  > >
                                  > > John Mann
                                  >
                                  > Photos of Applecross are here:
                                  >
                                  > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/photos/browse/5fed
                                  >
                                  > I think Martin had it up for sale at one point. Nice to see he has it
                                  > up for sailing now:-)
                                  >
                                  > Nels
                                  >
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