Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

rooting puppy syndrome (at anchor)

Expand Messages
  • macinkos
    Frank raises an interesting point (see below) about the behavior of the sharpie hulls at anchor/mooring. ... I have a Tennessee that does this to extreme. It
    Message 1 of 21 , May 9, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Frank raises an interesting point (see below) about the behavior of the
      sharpie hulls at anchor/mooring.

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@...> wrote:
      >
      > Matthew,
      >
      > * Sail
      > A steadying sail is an interesting idea. It turns out that the house
      > isn't like a mizzen at all. At anchor, the boat roots around like a
      > puppy dog on a leash!
      >

      I have a Tennessee that does this to extreme. It did it with the original design
      and it does it now with my modfied house (think somewhere between
      Champlain and Windermere--sorry Peter, sorry PB&F...), so I don't think it has
      to do with the superstructure as much as the flat bottom. In any case, any
      ideas for damping the swings a bit? It really isn't possible to exaggerate how
      much the "puppy on a leash" metaphor applies. I'm used to it but I'm worried
      that when the mooring field fills in, my neighbors may be a bit alarmed and it
      could in fact be a problem/danger if the swing spaces are too tight under the
      assumption that everybody generally swings roughly the same direction/time.

      Seth
    • Howard Stephenson
      Two possible remedies: 1. Attach the boat to the mooring with a towing eye low on the stem. 2. Make up a skeg - something like an outboard rudder that doesn t
      Message 2 of 21 , May 9, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Two possible remedies:

        1. Attach the boat to the mooring with a towing eye low on the stem.

        2. Make up a skeg - something like an outboard rudder that doesn't
        swing --- and fit it to the transom when moored. Maybe you could try
        this idea first with an oar.

        These are untested ideas that might be worth a try.

        Howard

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "macinkos" <smacinko@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Frank raises an interesting point (see below) about the behavior
        of the
        > sharpie hulls at anchor/mooring.
        >
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Matthew,
        > >
        > > * Sail
        > > A steadying sail is an interesting idea. It turns out that the
        house
        > > isn't like a mizzen at all. At anchor, the boat roots around
        like a
        > > puppy dog on a leash!
        > >
        >
        > I have a Tennessee that does this to extreme. It did it with the
        original design
        > and it does it now with my modfied house (think somewhere between
        > Champlain and Windermere--sorry Peter, sorry PB&F...), so I don't
        think it has
        > to do with the superstructure as much as the flat bottom. In any
        case, any
        > ideas for damping the swings a bit? It really isn't possible to
        exaggerate how
        > much the "puppy on a leash" metaphor applies. I'm used to it but
        I'm worried
        > that when the mooring field fills in, my neighbors may be a bit
        alarmed and it
        > could in fact be a problem/danger if the swing spaces are too
        tight under the
        > assumption that everybody generally swings roughly the same
        direction/time.
        >
      • John Bell
        My AF4 had the same problem. The only thing that worked was to take advantage of the type s shallow draft and and anchor bow and stern in an out of the way
        Message 3 of 21 , May 9, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          My AF4 had the same problem. The only thing that worked was to take
          advantage of the type's shallow draft and and anchor bow and stern in an
          out of the way place.

          I think the reason for sailing at anchor was high windage, shallow
          draft, and light weight.

          macinkos wrote:
          > Frank raises an interesting point (see below) about the behavior of the
          > sharpie hulls at anchor/mooring.
          >
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@...> wrote:
          >
          >> Matthew,
          >>
          >> * Sail
          >> A steadying sail is an interesting idea. It turns out that the house
          >> isn't like a mizzen at all. At anchor, the boat roots around like a
          >> puppy dog on a leash!
          >>
          >>
          >
          > I have a Tennessee that does this to extreme. It did it with the original design
          > and it does it now with my modfied house (think somewhere between
          > Champlain and Windermere--sorry Peter, sorry PB&F...), so I don't think it has
          > to do with the superstructure as much as the flat bottom. In any case, any
          > ideas for damping the swings a bit? It really isn't possible to exaggerate how
          > much the "puppy on a leash" metaphor applies. I'm used to it but I'm worried
          > that when the mooring field fills in, my neighbors may be a bit alarmed and it
          > could in fact be a problem/danger if the swing spaces are too tight under the
          > assumption that everybody generally swings roughly the same direction/time.
          >
          > Seth
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
          > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
          > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
          > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Sam Glasscock
          With the Topaz--big house, light hull, shallow underbody--I found she would root so badly with the motor down that I couldn t sleep on her in any current. She
          Message 4 of 21 , May 9, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            With the Topaz--big house, light hull, shallow
            underbody--I found she would root so badly with the
            motor down that I couldn't sleep on her in any
            current. She would pivot around the lower unit, the
            bow would blow off, she would "sail" across the
            current and fetch up hard. With the motor up she was
            pretty good-natured on the hook. Based on this, if I
            were going to try a mooring daggerboard or skeg, I
            would want it at the bow, not the stern. Sam
            --- Howard Stephenson <howardstephenson@...>
            wrote:

            > Two possible remedies:
            >
            > 1. Attach the boat to the mooring with a towing eye
            > low on the stem.
            >
            > 2. Make up a skeg - something like an outboard
            > rudder that doesn't
            > swing --- and fit it to the transom when moored.
            > Maybe you could try
            > this idea first with an oar.
            >
            > These are untested ideas that might be worth a try.
            >
            > Howard
            >

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com
          • Howard Stephenson
            In retrospect, that makes sense to me. A sharpie doesn t really have a forefoot and I guess that s why it s so easy for it to move around at anchor. Once the
            Message 5 of 21 , May 9, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              In retrospect, that makes sense to me. A sharpie doesn't really have
              a forefoot and I guess that's why it's so easy for it to move around
              at anchor. Once the bow is off a bit, the current pushes against one
              side more than the other, sending it further off. A skeg would just
              give it something to pivot on.

              PCB has specified a forward daggerboard in some of his power sharpie
              designs. I guess they'd help at anchor or a mooring.

              Howard

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > With the Topaz--big house, light hull, shallow
              > underbody--I found she would root so badly with the
              > motor down that I couldn't sleep on her in any
              > current. She would pivot around the lower unit, the
              > bow would blow off, she would "sail" across the
              > current and fetch up hard. With the motor up she was
              > pretty good-natured on the hook. Based on this, if I
              > were going to try a mooring daggerboard or skeg, I
              > would want it at the bow, not the stern.

              > > Two possible remedies:
              > >
              > > 1. Attach the boat to the mooring with a towing eye
              > > low on the stem.
              > >
              > > 2. Make up a skeg - something like an outboard
              > > rudder that doesn't
              > > swing --- and fit it to the transom when moored.
              > > Maybe you could try
              > > this idea first with an oar.
              > >
              > > These are untested ideas that might be worth a try.
            • macinkos
              Well,... thanks to those who replied so far. I have to say this seems to be rather like a dirty little secret of the sharpie designs. Are owners otherwise
              Message 6 of 21 , May 11, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Well,... thanks to those who replied so far.

                I have to say this seems to be rather like a "dirty little secret" of the sharpie
                designs. Are owners otherwise too fond and too proud of their crafts to
                discuss this lamentable feature in public? You'd think someone would have
                addressed the issue, and hopefully, solution, openly before. I'll try some
                experiments and report back.

                Seth
              • derbyrm
                It would be interesting to try running the anchor s line to the quarter with a spring to the bow. Sort of building in a bias to sag off to one side (and stay
                Message 7 of 21 , May 11, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  It would be interesting to try running the anchor's line to the quarter with a spring to the bow. Sort of building in a bias to sag off to one side (and stay there).

                  Roger (not experience, just an idea)
                  derbyrm@...
                  http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: macinkos
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 1:54 PM
                  Subject: [bolger] Re: rooting puppy syndrome (at anchor)


                  Well,... thanks to those who replied so far.

                  I have to say this seems to be rather like a "dirty little secret" of the sharpie
                  designs. Are owners otherwise too fond and too proud of their crafts to
                  discuss this lamentable feature in public? You'd think someone would have
                  addressed the issue, and hopefully, solution, openly before. I'll try some
                  experiments and report back.

                  Seth





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • dcassidyus
                  How about a lightweight anchor off the stern, just enough to keep pointed into the wind? DC ... of the sharpie ... have ... try some
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 11, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    How about a lightweight anchor off the stern, just enough to keep
                    pointed into the wind?

                    DC

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "macinkos" <smacinko@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Well,... thanks to those who replied so far.
                    >
                    > I have to say this seems to be rather like a "dirty little secret"
                    of the sharpie
                    > designs. Are owners otherwise too fond and too proud of their crafts to
                    > discuss this lamentable feature in public? You'd think someone would
                    have
                    > addressed the issue, and hopefully, solution, openly before. I'll
                    try some
                    > experiments and report back.
                    >
                    > Seth
                    >
                  • John Bell
                    ... I ve tried exactly what you suggest. No joy. The boat still sailed around enthusiastically. I ve tried sinking weighted buckets off of the bow in hopes of
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 11, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      derbyrm wrote:
                      > It would be interesting to try running the anchor's line to the quarter with a spring to the bow. Sort of building in a bias to sag off to one side (and stay there).
                      >


                      I've tried exactly what you suggest. No joy. The boat still sailed
                      around enthusiastically. I've tried sinking weighted buckets off of the
                      bow in hopes of giving the forefoot a little more bite. That didn't work
                      either. As I said before, the only thing that worked was to anchor bow
                      and stern.
                    • Peter Lenihan
                      ... of the sharpie ... crafts to ... would have ... try some ... Hi Seth, I haven t been posting for a while nor posting any progress pictures(can t figure out
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 14, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "macinkos" <smacinko@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Well,... thanks to those who replied so far.
                        >
                        > I have to say this seems to be rather like a "dirty little secret"
                        of the sharpie
                        > designs. Are owners otherwise too fond and too proud of their
                        crafts to
                        > discuss this lamentable feature in public? You'd think someone
                        would have
                        > addressed the issue, and hopefully, solution, openly before. I'll
                        try some
                        > experiments and report back.
                        >
                        > Seth
                        >

                        Hi Seth,

                        I haven't been posting for a while nor posting any progress
                        pictures(can't figure out how to get them out of a digital
                        camera),ie; haven't launched yet BUT in response to the rooting
                        puppy syndrome, I would suggest the following:

                        1) secure the anchor rhode to an eyebolt coming straight out of the
                        stem( if a small boat) or through a fairlead located dead on the
                        centerline( if a bigger and heavier boat is contemplated).
                        2) use heavier then really needed ground tackle and anchor.
                        3) keep her on a really short and tight scope.

                        Point number one will at least hopefully give her nose the chance to
                        stay in line with the anchor rhode,unlike the side mounted fairleads
                        used by some for anchoring when they are better suited for tying up
                        to a quay.Point number two will help overcome some of the effects of
                        odd zyphers blowing not perfectly along the centerline and allow for
                        point number three to be effectively implemented thus keeping that
                        puppy on a short leash :-)

                        A forward placed centerboard or daggerboard may certainly help if
                        one is at anchor,instead of a permanent mooring.

                        Looking forward to your test results as I continue to plug away on
                        the forever-fussy-custom-yacht-interior styling that I am attempting
                        on board Windermere.

                        Sincerely,

                        Peter Lenihan, happy for the arrival,finally,of some warmer weather
                        so that I can dust off ye olde cooler and charge her up with ice ta
                        keep the beer cold...........ah yes..........from along the shores
                        of the estival St.Lawrence...............
                      • macinkos
                        Thanks Peter. I ll relay a few more facts--- I m on a permanent mooring (but may have to give it up if the rooting issue can t be ameliorated--it is getting
                        Message 11 of 21 , May 14, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thanks Peter.

                          I'll relay a few more facts--- I'm on a permanent mooring (but may have to give
                          it up if the "rooting"issue can't be ameliorated--it is getting serious as the
                          afternoon winds are building as summer comes and the boat routinely swings
                          completely broad side to the winds and the swings are pretty violent) and the
                          penant is supplied to me. It is pretty short (about 12 feet) and I lead it up to a
                          tow bit via a chock that is dead-on the centerline of the bow.

                          I guess I can put a bow eye in lower on the stem and try that but I really don't
                          see it making a big difference.

                          Seth--thinking I should have put my name in on the list for a slip .......

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
                          >
                        • Kenneth Grome
                          Sorry if this has been mentioned but I m coming in late on this thread. Have you tried putting mizzen sail on the boat and leaving it up? Sincerely, Ken Grome
                          Message 12 of 21 , May 14, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Sorry if this has been mentioned but I'm coming in late on this thread. Have
                            you tried putting mizzen sail on the boat and leaving it up?

                            Sincerely,
                            Ken Grome
                            Bagacay Boatworks
                            www.bagacayboatworks.com
                          • Chester Young
                            I am truly hoping that a mizzen or riding sail fixes the issue. I have not had time to put one on Esther Mae, but certainly agree something needs to be done
                            Message 13 of 21 , May 15, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I am truly hoping that a mizzen or riding sail fixes the issue. I have not
                              had time to put one on Esther Mae, but certainly agree something needs to be
                              done to stop the rooting. That in conjunction with the bow slap can be
                              annoying when trying to sleep. Motor up or down seems to make very little
                              difference when anchored, unless the water is so shallow as to act like an
                              anchor on the stern. As noted previously I have anchored stern first to
                              eliminate the bow slap, this seems to slow the rooting also, but would be
                              problematic on a full time mooring.



                              Caloosarat



                              _____

                              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              Kenneth Grome
                              Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 10:13 PM
                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: rooting puppy syndrome (at anchor)



                              Sorry if this has been mentioned but I'm coming in late on this thread. Have

                              you tried putting mizzen sail on the boat and leaving it up?

                              Sincerely,
                              Ken Grome
                              Bagacay Boatworks
                              www.bagacayboatworks.com





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • ghartc
                              My trawler Alligator does this too, with a very heavy anchor chain. It doesn t really root or sail to the anchor, but it swings. Counterintuitive, but a plate,
                              Message 14 of 21 , May 16, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                My trawler Alligator does this too, with a very heavy anchor chain. It
                                doesn't really root or sail to the anchor, but it swings.
                                Counterintuitive, but a plate, if swiveled near the center of
                                pressure, will try to face its largest face othogonal to the wind.
                                Moving the point of swivel as far away from the center of pressure
                                helps - i.e. swivel forward and/or riding sail way back. I suspect
                                rigging the boom off the centerline, so the boom does not point at the
                                bow may reduce oscillations.

                                Trimarans are awful at anchor, too - a bridle is the only way to fix
                                it, which moves the swivel point forward. I wonder if a split snubber
                                could be rigged to snap on the anchor line/chain and run to the sides
                                of the boat.

                                Gregg Carlson



                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chester Young" <chester@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I am truly hoping that a mizzen or riding sail fixes the issue. I
                                have not
                                > had time to put one on Esther Mae, but certainly agree something
                                needs to be
                                > done to stop the rooting. That in conjunction with the bow slap can be
                                > annoying when trying to sleep. Motor up or down seems to make very
                                little
                                > difference when anchored, unless the water is so shallow as to act
                                like an
                                > anchor on the stern. As noted previously I have anchored stern first to
                                > eliminate the bow slap, this seems to slow the rooting also, but
                                would be
                                > problematic on a full time mooring.
                              • Harry James
                                Seth Have you tried anchoring from the stern? HJ
                                Message 15 of 21 , May 16, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Seth

                                  Have you tried anchoring from the stern?

                                  HJ

                                  macinkos wrote:
                                  > Well,... thanks to those who replied so far.
                                  >
                                  > I have to say this seems to be rather like a "dirty little secret" of the sharpie
                                  > designs. Are owners otherwise too fond and too proud of their crafts to
                                  > discuss this lamentable feature in public? You'd think someone would have
                                  > addressed the issue, and hopefully, solution, openly before. I'll try some
                                  > experiments and report back.
                                  >
                                  > Seth
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.