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Promising Product for waterproofing wood

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  • cattjd
    Greetings from a long time lurker. I recently stumbled on a site for Cedarcide Industries. They have three products that look very promising for eliminating
    Message 1 of 6 , May 2, 2007
      Greetings from a long time lurker.

      I recently stumbled on a site for Cedarcide Industries. They have
      three products that look very promising for eliminating the
      possibility of rot in wooden boats, CedarTreat, CedarSeal, and
      CedarShield (CedarShield looks to be the most "potent"). I've been
      poring over their site, which has a lot of information, and have
      summarized the following that I found of interest to wooden boats:

      1. It can be sprayed, brushed, rolled or soaked on to cured or green
      wood.
      2. It alters the structure of the wood using a Dow Corning silicone
      product and a modified cedar oil which are absorbed into the wood via
      the woods cell and fiber structure to make the wood water repellant,
      dimensionally stable,(possible cure for checking?) & insect resistant
      3. It can be painted or stained with oil base products 72 hours after
      treatment. "Efficacy with water based products is marginal"
      4. It can be used on plywood, & OSB and stated that treatment makes
      wood more rigid so I would guess that you would want to spray the hull
      after assembly.
      5. It appears that one treatment if good for life.

      I was looking for an environmentally safe product to use on green wood
      that would be in ground contact. This looks promising so I thought I
      would pass it along


      Jeff

      disclaimer: I have no relationship with this company but I wish I
      they offered shares of stock.
    • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
      The key word is resistant not proof and what they imply. It may give you some life but no more then dipping them or spraying them with the non green atifreez.
      Message 2 of 6 , May 2, 2007
        The key word is resistant not proof and what they imply. It may give
        you some life but no more then dipping them or spraying them with the
        non green atifreez. To be nontoxic then paint with something that is
        some what toxic is just a light shade of green. Toxic is what stops
        rot then it is a choice of what toxic is better to be around. When
        the chemicals wash out rot starts. Use what works and has the
        chemicals to last or another tree will have to be cut sooner or non
        renewables used. OSB and other waste wood products don't go in boats
        or the weather to last long with any coating the glues that made them
        last are no longer used. A water resistant product on wood still
        allows it to breath even paints with time it will check or crack.
        Green is the new missrepresented fealgood way to sell a lot of
        things. Green homes with plastic windows foam insolation and steel
        studs. Plastic bags to save trees with plastic egg cartins. Reality
        is you can't build a green boat, deck or fence just a light shade of
        green and another coat of paint or oils just make it a lighter shade
        of green till in time it isn't green at all. Silicone isn't realy a
        green chem becouse of what and how it is made.

        Sorry to burst the bubble and rant but there is a lot of realy bad
        missreprestation in a lot of the green programs and products. I am
        enberassed to be involved if many of these non thought out green
        ideas like food for fuel as a blend raising the cost of food in a
        starving world and requiering 10-20% more due to less efficency.

        Jon

        Canada can't wait for it to be tropical again when we recover from
        global cooling.

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "cattjd" <cattjd@...> wrote:
        >
        > Greetings from a long time lurker.
        >
        > I recently stumbled on a site for Cedarcide Industries. They have
        > three products that look very promising for eliminating the
        > possibility of rot in wooden boats, CedarTreat, CedarSeal, and
        > CedarShield (CedarShield looks to be the most "potent"). I've been
        > poring over their site, which has a lot of information, and have
        > summarized the following that I found of interest to wooden boats:
        >
        > 1. It can be sprayed, brushed, rolled or soaked on to cured or
        green
        > wood.
        > 2. It alters the structure of the wood using a Dow Corning silicone
        > product and a modified cedar oil which are absorbed into the wood
        via
        > the woods cell and fiber structure to make the wood water repellant,
        > dimensionally stable,(possible cure for checking?) & insect
        resistant
        > 3. It can be painted or stained with oil base products 72 hours
        after
        > treatment. "Efficacy with water based products is marginal"
        > 4. It can be used on plywood, & OSB and stated that treatment makes
        > wood more rigid so I would guess that you would want to spray the
        hull
        > after assembly.
        > 5. It appears that one treatment if good for life.
        >
        > I was looking for an environmentally safe product to use on green
        wood
        > that would be in ground contact. This looks promising so I thought
        I
        > would pass it along
        >
        >
        > Jeff
        >
        > disclaimer: I have no relationship with this company but I wish I
        > they offered shares of stock.
        >
      • cattjd
        ... Sorry if it sounded like a rant but I do believe this is extremely promising. In a few years I predict that this technology will displace chemical
        Message 3 of 6 , May 4, 2007
          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
          >

          > Sorry to burst the bubble and rant...

          > Jon


          Sorry if it sounded like a rant but I do believe this is extremely
          promising. In a few years I predict that this technology will
          displace chemical pressure treatment of woods and will allow the use
          of green(referring to uncured not environmentally safe) woods for many
          applications.

          When you visit the Cedarcide web site don't stop at their web pages
          designed for the retail sale of of their products. Scattered and
          buried among the webpages is information relating to the use of their
          products as alternatives to pressure treatment of railroad ties,
          telephone poles, underwater piers, fence posts, & decking. They claim
          the treatment is permanent. If I was building a large boat such as
          Topaz, my favorite, I would definitely look into this.

          I've only found one other company, egreenstone, that has a similar
          product. They make similar claims and are already selling to a fence
          post company and a railroad tie company. They don't appear to have a
          a retail side to their product. My misplaced (for this forum) comment
          on buying cedarcide stock stems from research into buying egreenstone
          stock, however, egreenstone has made some poor (in hindsight) business
          decisions and their stock went from its original offering @ $0.79 per
          share to $0.0018! Pending litigation will probably keep it there for a
          while, but I digress.

          I'm ordering a gallon of CedarShield to try on some landscaping
          projects using Mountain Laurel and Rhododendron branches.

          Jeff
        • mkriley48
          the fact that this contains silicon renders it completely unsuitable for boats!! This will interfere with the proper bonding of glues and paints. It may be
          Message 4 of 6 , May 4, 2007
            the fact that this contains silicon renders it completely unsuitable
            for boats!! This will interfere with the proper bonding of glues and
            paints. It may be able to have a coat of latex floated over it and
            have it dry but it will not have proper adhesion. If it repels water
            it repels paint. Also I would point out that wood oils are capable of
            causing epoxy joints to fail over time, oak and teak come to mind. So
            the verdict is still to be determined on this ingredient.
            mike
          • cattjd
            ... I just ordered a gallon of CedarShield. According to Dave at CedarCide it has no compromise to any adhesives including epoxy. It will accept latex paints
            Message 5 of 6 , May 4, 2007
              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mkriley48" <mkriley@...> wrote:
              >
              > the fact that this contains silicon renders it completely unsuitable
              > for boats!! This will interfere with the proper bonding of glues and
              > paints. It may be able to have a coat of latex floated over it and
              > have it dry but it will not have proper adhesion. If it repels water
              > it repels paint. Also I would point out that wood oils are capable of
              > causing epoxy joints to fail over time, oak and teak come to mind. So
              > the verdict is still to be determined on this ingredient.
              > mike
              >
              I just ordered a gallon of CedarShield. According to Dave at CedarCide
              it has no compromise to any adhesives including epoxy. It will accept
              latex paints after 72 hours. If anyone is interested I'll do a follow
              up post after I get it.

              Jeff
            • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
              I understand you where talking about green wood not green product. Green wood is poor for boat building and products that are preshered into wood like wood
              Message 6 of 6 , May 4, 2007
                I understand you where talking about green wood not green product.
                Green wood is poor for boat building and products that are preshered
                into wood like wood treated for outdoor decks don't work eather. This
                was a product to replace chems used to presher treat as in a green
                product. Many many products have come and gone trying to protect
                decks and outdoor wood items that don't work well on boats or live up
                to what they say. With all the litigation that went on with breast
                implants and silicon the odds of some one hitting a small company and
                putting it under are high. Invest with caution and do side by side
                epoxy glue tests boiling freezing and breaking before even thinking
                of useing in a boat. Another test with dry wood is to coat it let dry
                weigh it when submerge for a week and see how much weight it gains in
                water. Again water proof is different then water resistant. Just some
                other food for thought.

                Jon

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "cattjd" <cattjd@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mkriley48" <mkriley@> wrote:
                > >
                > > the fact that this contains silicon renders it completely
                unsuitable
                > > for boats!! This will interfere with the proper bonding of glues
                and
                > > paints. It may be able to have a coat of latex floated over it and
                > > have it dry but it will not have proper adhesion. If it repels
                water
                > > it repels paint. Also I would point out that wood oils are
                capable of
                > > causing epoxy joints to fail over time, oak and teak come to
                mind. So
                > > the verdict is still to be determined on this ingredient.
                > > mike
                > >
                > I just ordered a gallon of CedarShield. According to Dave at
                CedarCide
                > it has no compromise to any adhesives including epoxy. It will
                accept
                > latex paints after 72 hours. If anyone is interested I'll do a
                follow
                > up post after I get it.
                >
                > Jeff
                >
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