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RE: [bolger] Modify a Windsprint?

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  • 9buck crowley
    Chris Google search SWBANS. Go their site and look in the photos of events section they show a number of Windsprints with decks. Whether or not any have
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1 2:23 PM
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      Chris

      Google search SWBANS. Go their site and look in the "photos of events"
      section they show a number of Windsprints with decks. Whether or not any
      have additional freeboard I don't know but they certainly have a lot of
      experience with this boat.

      Buck Crowley

      >From: "Christopher Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>
      >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      >To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [bolger] Modify a Windsprint?
      >Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:14:27 -0000
      >
      >I am warming up to build a Windsprint this spring. I am considering
      >giving it about 2 extra inches of freeboard. Some of the pictures I
      >have seen look like the gunwale is perilously close to the water close
      >hauled. I would appreciate opinions of this idea and the possibility
      >of decking over the bow and stern.
      >
      >V/R
      >Chris
      >

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    • Matthew Lawson
      To give Windsprint more freeboard means major changes in the layout of the side panels on the sheets of plywood, turning an incredibly materials-efficient
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1 6:54 PM
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        To give Windsprint more freeboard means major changes in the layout of the
        side panels on the sheets of plywood, turning an incredibly
        materials-efficient design into a plywood hog (comparatively). If you are
        willing to do that, then you might think about other designs. Hiking out in
        a stiff breeze does a lot to retain freeboard, and if you have another body
        for ballast, you shouldn't have much problem. Putting the design in
        Hulls.exe with a 900 lb load, I think the model showed 8 inches of
        freeboard. That kind of load is almost inconceivable, given the space
        constraints in the boat.



        Decking bow and stern is not a bad idea, especially if you make sealable
        flotation chambers. If you are decking to have a deck, you could bring it
        along the length of the gunwales to give your keister a break when hiking.
        Also, if you did that, you would effectively gain another several inches of
        freeboard, because the gunwale would have to go well under before water
        pours over the deck. Of course, that's when you would want those big
        flotation chambers.



        --Matt Lawson

        Trenton, NJ



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Christopher Wetherill
        Matt, Here is my concern. Look at Patrick Crockkett s pictures here: http://home.nc.rr.com/pcrockett/boats.html The photo showing two adults and a child
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1 9:34 PM
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          Matt,

          Here is my concern. Look at Patrick Crockkett's pictures here:
          http://home.nc.rr.com/pcrockett/boats.html The photo showing two
          adults and a child aboard running close hauled doesn't show a lot of
          reserve against heeling and "burying the rail". Coupled with the
          numerous descriptions of swamping of Windsprints, I was inspired to
          contemplate the behaviors that could result in me taking an unplanned
          swim.

          The precipitating event in the descriptions I have read is the boom
          going under water. This would drag the hull across the wind.
          Knockdown would be inevitable. My thinking is that if the draft and
          heel combine to put the gunwale under then the swim would be just as
          certain.

          My options are to build as drawn, build with extra freeboard, and
          build with deck and combing. Building with deck and combing would
          result in a cockpit with reduced width. Since I am almost 50, 6'
          220#, and have troublesome knees, This is not too appealing. I
          therefore limit the decking to the ends of the hull and consider the
          freeboard.

          Decking the ends would add at least one sheet. Increasing the width
          of the sides would add another. I am trying to decide if the time and
          materials difference is worthwhile.

          V/R
          Chris


          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Lawson" <mplawson@...> wrote:
          >
          > To give Windsprint more freeboard means major changes in the layout
          of the
          > side panels on the sheets of plywood, turning an incredibly
          > materials-efficient design into a plywood hog (comparatively).
        • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
          I would think it may raise the COG and cause more heeling. It may be better to add 4-6 in width at center of force spredding the bow a little as well as the
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1 10:18 PM
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            I would think it may raise the COG and cause more heeling. It may be
            better to add 4-6" in width at center of force spredding the bow a
            little as well as the stern then deck.

            Jon

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Wetherill"
            <wetherillc@...> wrote:
            >
            > Matt,
            >
            > Here is my concern. Look at Patrick Crockkett's pictures here:
            > http://home.nc.rr.com/pcrockett/boats.html The photo showing two
            > adults and a child aboard running close hauled doesn't show a lot of
            > reserve against heeling and "burying the rail". Coupled with the
            > numerous descriptions of swamping of Windsprints, I was inspired to
            > contemplate the behaviors that could result in me taking an
            unplanned
            > swim.
            >
            > The precipitating event in the descriptions I have read is the boom
            > going under water. This would drag the hull across the wind.
            > Knockdown would be inevitable. My thinking is that if the draft and
            > heel combine to put the gunwale under then the swim would be just as
            > certain.
            >
            > My options are to build as drawn, build with extra freeboard, and
            > build with deck and combing. Building with deck and combing would
            > result in a cockpit with reduced width. Since I am almost 50, 6'
            > 220#, and have troublesome knees, This is not too appealing. I
            > therefore limit the decking to the ends of the hull and consider the
            > freeboard.
            >
            > Decking the ends would add at least one sheet. Increasing the width
            > of the sides would add another. I am trying to decide if the time
            and
            > materials difference is worthwhile.
            >
            > V/R
            > Chris
            >
            >
            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Lawson" <mplawson@> wrote:
            > >
            > > To give Windsprint more freeboard means major changes in the
            layout
            > of the
            > > side panels on the sheets of plywood, turning an incredibly
            > > materials-efficient design into a plywood hog (comparatively).
          • Matthew Lawson
            Chris: I appreciate your concerns. Windsprint is really a very small boat. The pointy ends, though beautiful, make LOA deciptive, add no bouyancy, and
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 2 5:57 PM
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              Chris:

              I appreciate your concerns. Windsprint is really a very small boat.
              The pointy ends, though beautiful, make LOA deciptive, add no bouyancy,
              and constrain interior space. Before I built I strongly considered a
              stretched punt. After being out a few times, I wished I had done that
              or scaled the design to 18'. Oh well. I'm pleased overall. And she
              IS a beautiful boat.

              I have not had a knockdown, but then I didn't go with the balance lug
              as designed, which may make a difference. I've got sketches for my
              sprit-boomed sprit sail in bolger2\files\windsprint stuff. The foot of
              the sail is angled up, so I think I would sink the gunwale before I had
              a knockdown on any point of sailing. Or maybe I'm chicken. Maybe this
              summer, with warm water, all flotation, and my bailing bucket, I'll see
              how far I can press it.

              (Patrick: nice kayak! I've thought of building one next. Wait, Chris,
              why don't you just leapfrog the Windsprint, build a CLC kayak, and get
              the CLC outrigger and sea kayak sail kit. If you want to sprint on the
              wind, I think that may be your best bet. Or a hobie cat. Or an ice
              boat.)

              --Matt

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Matt,
              >
              > Here is my concern. Look at Patrick Crockkett's pictures here:
              > http://home.nc.rr.com/pcrockett/boats.html The photo showing two
              > adults and a child aboard running close hauled doesn't show a lot of
              > reserve against heeling and "burying the rail". Coupled with the
              > numerous descriptions of swamping of Windsprints, I was inspired to
              > contemplate the behaviors that could result in me taking an unplanned
              > swim.
            • Patrick Crockett
              Chris: Lots of people make water-tight compartments fore and aft for flotation, and therefore deck over the bow and stern. I put a deck about 4 below the
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 2 6:55 PM
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                Chris:

                Lots of people make water-tight compartments fore and aft for flotation,
                and therefore deck over the bow and stern. I put a deck about 4" below
                the gunwales forward (back to the mast step), making a place where I was
                comfortable letting my daughter lounge from the time she was 4. Now that
                she's 13, she kind of hangs over the edges when she lounges up there,
                but it is still where she goes when she is not steering. I made an
                after-deck from the rear thwart back, about 2" below the gunwales. I
                throw stuff back there to get it out of the way -- water bottles,
                cushions, stern painter, etc. I haven't yet bothered with the
                water-tight compartment thing, I just stacked up some closed cell foam
                and put plywood on top of that. Someday, I'll finish the boat.

                Windsprint was specifically designed to fit into 4 sheets of plywood. If
                you add freeboard, you'll have to buy another sheet. I don't think it
                will be quite as pretty. OTOH, another 2 inches might have saved me from
                a capsize last July 4th. Or not. I think that I have capsized more often
                from dragging the boom in the water (close reaching) than from excessive
                heel. Truly, the boat feels safest to me when close-hauled.

                I have needed to strengthen the rudder stock, reinforce the daggerboard
                trunk where it attaches to the side of the boat, and repair the mast
                step when the mast chewed it up -- not sure if that was during a capsize
                or when we broke the rudder and were flopping around in large waves with
                a fair bit of wind (and a ferry waiting for us to get out of the way).

                Some photos of my boat are in the photos section of the Bolger group:
                http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/browse/49d7?c=
                and some others are at: http://www.patrickcrockett.com/boats/boats.html
                One photo on the latter page looks like the gunwale is perilously close
                to the water, but I'm pretty sure we didn't ship any water that trip. My
                daughter was OK with tippy-ness at that age, but would have been pretty
                worried about water coming in. Part of what makes it look perilous is
                the fact that the bow wave lifts up almost to the gunwale -- note that
                at the ends the water is not so tall.

                BTW, when you buy (or build) a sail, be _sure_ to have the second reef
                put in -- if you single-hand the boat in any breeze at all, you will be
                glad to have it. And figure out a way to reef the sail while under way.
                I also found that a 2-part sheet was very helpful (and an over-sized one
                -- I have 1/2" soft yacht braid). I tie off to the rudder stock, run the
                sheet to the end of the boom, along the boom, and back to my hand from a
                block at mid-boom. Much more comfortable when the wind pipes up than the
                designed 1-part sheet (end of the boom to the rudder to the hand).

                Patrick


                Christopher Wetherill wrote:
                > I am warming up to build a Windsprint this spring. I am considering
                > giving it about 2 extra inches of freeboard. Some of the pictures I
                > have seen look like the gunwale is perilously close to the water close
                > hauled. I would appreciate opinions of this idea and the possibility
                > of decking over the bow and stern.
                >
                > V/R
                > Chris
                >
                >
                >
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              • graeme19121984
                ... Chris, as you would then be into a six sheet boat have you thought of other instants of around that size, eg COLD-WATER SAILBOARD, or JINNI? Freeboard not
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 4 4:27 AM
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                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>
                  wrote:
                  > Decking the ends would add at least one sheet. Increasing the width
                  > of the sides would add another. I am trying to decide if the time
                  >and materials difference is worthwhile.

                  Chris,

                  as you would then be into a six sheet boat have you thought of other
                  instants of around that size, eg COLD-WATER SAILBOARD, or JINNI?

                  Freeboard not greatly increased, but bottom beam is, so with transom
                  sterns these should stand up more to sail, and both have their own way
                  for easy recovery should capsise ever [guaranteed ;-)] happen. The
                  WINDSPRINT sail could be fitted to either with a little fiddling, if
                  wanted

                  Graeme
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