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Re: Modify a Windsprint?

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  • GarthAB
    Hi Chris -- I built a Windsprint years ago as my very first boat. It goes together quickly, and you get a lot of boat for not that much work. I m not sure
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1 2:05 PM
      Hi Chris --

      I built a Windsprint years ago as my very first boat. It goes together
      quickly, and you get a lot of boat for not that much work.

      I'm not sure about the freeboard part of your question -- but I would
      definitely recommend decking over the bow and stern areas and creating
      watertight storage compartments there, accessible by wooden hatches
      held down by bungee cords and sealed with weatherstripping -- or
      somehow adding significant amounts of flotation foam to the boat. When
      it goes over and fills with water, it takes a long time to bail it
      out. Thinking about making it self-rescue capable is a good exercise.
      It'll add complexity to a beautifully simple boat, but you'll be able
      to go more places with peace of mind.

      All best,
      Garth




      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Wetherill"
      <wetherillc@...> wrote:
      >
      > I am warming up to build a Windsprint this spring. I am considering
      > giving it about 2 extra inches of freeboard. Some of the pictures I
      > have seen look like the gunwale is perilously close to the water close
      > hauled. I would appreciate opinions of this idea and the possibility
      > of decking over the bow and stern.
      >
      > V/R
      > Chris
      >
    • 9buck crowley
      Chris Google search SWBANS. Go their site and look in the photos of events section they show a number of Windsprints with decks. Whether or not any have
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1 2:23 PM
        Chris

        Google search SWBANS. Go their site and look in the "photos of events"
        section they show a number of Windsprints with decks. Whether or not any
        have additional freeboard I don't know but they certainly have a lot of
        experience with this boat.

        Buck Crowley

        >From: "Christopher Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>
        >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        >To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [bolger] Modify a Windsprint?
        >Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:14:27 -0000
        >
        >I am warming up to build a Windsprint this spring. I am considering
        >giving it about 2 extra inches of freeboard. Some of the pictures I
        >have seen look like the gunwale is perilously close to the water close
        >hauled. I would appreciate opinions of this idea and the possibility
        >of decking over the bow and stern.
        >
        >V/R
        >Chris
        >

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      • Matthew Lawson
        To give Windsprint more freeboard means major changes in the layout of the side panels on the sheets of plywood, turning an incredibly materials-efficient
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1 6:54 PM
          To give Windsprint more freeboard means major changes in the layout of the
          side panels on the sheets of plywood, turning an incredibly
          materials-efficient design into a plywood hog (comparatively). If you are
          willing to do that, then you might think about other designs. Hiking out in
          a stiff breeze does a lot to retain freeboard, and if you have another body
          for ballast, you shouldn't have much problem. Putting the design in
          Hulls.exe with a 900 lb load, I think the model showed 8 inches of
          freeboard. That kind of load is almost inconceivable, given the space
          constraints in the boat.



          Decking bow and stern is not a bad idea, especially if you make sealable
          flotation chambers. If you are decking to have a deck, you could bring it
          along the length of the gunwales to give your keister a break when hiking.
          Also, if you did that, you would effectively gain another several inches of
          freeboard, because the gunwale would have to go well under before water
          pours over the deck. Of course, that's when you would want those big
          flotation chambers.



          --Matt Lawson

          Trenton, NJ



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Christopher Wetherill
          Matt, Here is my concern. Look at Patrick Crockkett s pictures here: http://home.nc.rr.com/pcrockett/boats.html The photo showing two adults and a child
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1 9:34 PM
            Matt,

            Here is my concern. Look at Patrick Crockkett's pictures here:
            http://home.nc.rr.com/pcrockett/boats.html The photo showing two
            adults and a child aboard running close hauled doesn't show a lot of
            reserve against heeling and "burying the rail". Coupled with the
            numerous descriptions of swamping of Windsprints, I was inspired to
            contemplate the behaviors that could result in me taking an unplanned
            swim.

            The precipitating event in the descriptions I have read is the boom
            going under water. This would drag the hull across the wind.
            Knockdown would be inevitable. My thinking is that if the draft and
            heel combine to put the gunwale under then the swim would be just as
            certain.

            My options are to build as drawn, build with extra freeboard, and
            build with deck and combing. Building with deck and combing would
            result in a cockpit with reduced width. Since I am almost 50, 6'
            220#, and have troublesome knees, This is not too appealing. I
            therefore limit the decking to the ends of the hull and consider the
            freeboard.

            Decking the ends would add at least one sheet. Increasing the width
            of the sides would add another. I am trying to decide if the time and
            materials difference is worthwhile.

            V/R
            Chris


            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Lawson" <mplawson@...> wrote:
            >
            > To give Windsprint more freeboard means major changes in the layout
            of the
            > side panels on the sheets of plywood, turning an incredibly
            > materials-efficient design into a plywood hog (comparatively).
          • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
            I would think it may raise the COG and cause more heeling. It may be better to add 4-6 in width at center of force spredding the bow a little as well as the
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 1 10:18 PM
              I would think it may raise the COG and cause more heeling. It may be
              better to add 4-6" in width at center of force spredding the bow a
              little as well as the stern then deck.

              Jon

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Wetherill"
              <wetherillc@...> wrote:
              >
              > Matt,
              >
              > Here is my concern. Look at Patrick Crockkett's pictures here:
              > http://home.nc.rr.com/pcrockett/boats.html The photo showing two
              > adults and a child aboard running close hauled doesn't show a lot of
              > reserve against heeling and "burying the rail". Coupled with the
              > numerous descriptions of swamping of Windsprints, I was inspired to
              > contemplate the behaviors that could result in me taking an
              unplanned
              > swim.
              >
              > The precipitating event in the descriptions I have read is the boom
              > going under water. This would drag the hull across the wind.
              > Knockdown would be inevitable. My thinking is that if the draft and
              > heel combine to put the gunwale under then the swim would be just as
              > certain.
              >
              > My options are to build as drawn, build with extra freeboard, and
              > build with deck and combing. Building with deck and combing would
              > result in a cockpit with reduced width. Since I am almost 50, 6'
              > 220#, and have troublesome knees, This is not too appealing. I
              > therefore limit the decking to the ends of the hull and consider the
              > freeboard.
              >
              > Decking the ends would add at least one sheet. Increasing the width
              > of the sides would add another. I am trying to decide if the time
              and
              > materials difference is worthwhile.
              >
              > V/R
              > Chris
              >
              >
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Lawson" <mplawson@> wrote:
              > >
              > > To give Windsprint more freeboard means major changes in the
              layout
              > of the
              > > side panels on the sheets of plywood, turning an incredibly
              > > materials-efficient design into a plywood hog (comparatively).
            • Matthew Lawson
              Chris: I appreciate your concerns. Windsprint is really a very small boat. The pointy ends, though beautiful, make LOA deciptive, add no bouyancy, and
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 2 5:57 PM
                Chris:

                I appreciate your concerns. Windsprint is really a very small boat.
                The pointy ends, though beautiful, make LOA deciptive, add no bouyancy,
                and constrain interior space. Before I built I strongly considered a
                stretched punt. After being out a few times, I wished I had done that
                or scaled the design to 18'. Oh well. I'm pleased overall. And she
                IS a beautiful boat.

                I have not had a knockdown, but then I didn't go with the balance lug
                as designed, which may make a difference. I've got sketches for my
                sprit-boomed sprit sail in bolger2\files\windsprint stuff. The foot of
                the sail is angled up, so I think I would sink the gunwale before I had
                a knockdown on any point of sailing. Or maybe I'm chicken. Maybe this
                summer, with warm water, all flotation, and my bailing bucket, I'll see
                how far I can press it.

                (Patrick: nice kayak! I've thought of building one next. Wait, Chris,
                why don't you just leapfrog the Windsprint, build a CLC kayak, and get
                the CLC outrigger and sea kayak sail kit. If you want to sprint on the
                wind, I think that may be your best bet. Or a hobie cat. Or an ice
                boat.)

                --Matt

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Matt,
                >
                > Here is my concern. Look at Patrick Crockkett's pictures here:
                > http://home.nc.rr.com/pcrockett/boats.html The photo showing two
                > adults and a child aboard running close hauled doesn't show a lot of
                > reserve against heeling and "burying the rail". Coupled with the
                > numerous descriptions of swamping of Windsprints, I was inspired to
                > contemplate the behaviors that could result in me taking an unplanned
                > swim.
              • Patrick Crockett
                Chris: Lots of people make water-tight compartments fore and aft for flotation, and therefore deck over the bow and stern. I put a deck about 4 below the
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 2 6:55 PM
                  Chris:

                  Lots of people make water-tight compartments fore and aft for flotation,
                  and therefore deck over the bow and stern. I put a deck about 4" below
                  the gunwales forward (back to the mast step), making a place where I was
                  comfortable letting my daughter lounge from the time she was 4. Now that
                  she's 13, she kind of hangs over the edges when she lounges up there,
                  but it is still where she goes when she is not steering. I made an
                  after-deck from the rear thwart back, about 2" below the gunwales. I
                  throw stuff back there to get it out of the way -- water bottles,
                  cushions, stern painter, etc. I haven't yet bothered with the
                  water-tight compartment thing, I just stacked up some closed cell foam
                  and put plywood on top of that. Someday, I'll finish the boat.

                  Windsprint was specifically designed to fit into 4 sheets of plywood. If
                  you add freeboard, you'll have to buy another sheet. I don't think it
                  will be quite as pretty. OTOH, another 2 inches might have saved me from
                  a capsize last July 4th. Or not. I think that I have capsized more often
                  from dragging the boom in the water (close reaching) than from excessive
                  heel. Truly, the boat feels safest to me when close-hauled.

                  I have needed to strengthen the rudder stock, reinforce the daggerboard
                  trunk where it attaches to the side of the boat, and repair the mast
                  step when the mast chewed it up -- not sure if that was during a capsize
                  or when we broke the rudder and were flopping around in large waves with
                  a fair bit of wind (and a ferry waiting for us to get out of the way).

                  Some photos of my boat are in the photos section of the Bolger group:
                  http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/browse/49d7?c=
                  and some others are at: http://www.patrickcrockett.com/boats/boats.html
                  One photo on the latter page looks like the gunwale is perilously close
                  to the water, but I'm pretty sure we didn't ship any water that trip. My
                  daughter was OK with tippy-ness at that age, but would have been pretty
                  worried about water coming in. Part of what makes it look perilous is
                  the fact that the bow wave lifts up almost to the gunwale -- note that
                  at the ends the water is not so tall.

                  BTW, when you buy (or build) a sail, be _sure_ to have the second reef
                  put in -- if you single-hand the boat in any breeze at all, you will be
                  glad to have it. And figure out a way to reef the sail while under way.
                  I also found that a 2-part sheet was very helpful (and an over-sized one
                  -- I have 1/2" soft yacht braid). I tie off to the rudder stock, run the
                  sheet to the end of the boom, along the boom, and back to my hand from a
                  block at mid-boom. Much more comfortable when the wind pipes up than the
                  designed 1-part sheet (end of the boom to the rudder to the hand).

                  Patrick


                  Christopher Wetherill wrote:
                  > I am warming up to build a Windsprint this spring. I am considering
                  > giving it about 2 extra inches of freeboard. Some of the pictures I
                  > have seen look like the gunwale is perilously close to the water close
                  > hauled. I would appreciate opinions of this idea and the possibility
                  > of decking over the bow and stern.
                  >
                  > V/R
                  > Chris
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • graeme19121984
                  ... Chris, as you would then be into a six sheet boat have you thought of other instants of around that size, eg COLD-WATER SAILBOARD, or JINNI? Freeboard not
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 4 4:27 AM
                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>
                    wrote:
                    > Decking the ends would add at least one sheet. Increasing the width
                    > of the sides would add another. I am trying to decide if the time
                    >and materials difference is worthwhile.

                    Chris,

                    as you would then be into a six sheet boat have you thought of other
                    instants of around that size, eg COLD-WATER SAILBOARD, or JINNI?

                    Freeboard not greatly increased, but bottom beam is, so with transom
                    sterns these should stand up more to sail, and both have their own way
                    for easy recovery should capsise ever [guaranteed ;-)] happen. The
                    WINDSPRINT sail could be fitted to either with a little fiddling, if
                    wanted

                    Graeme
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