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two modifications of Micro rig?

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  • danieljamesstewart4
    I m in the planning stages preparing to build a Micro and I have two questions for my first post to this group? --Is there any reason why I couldn t put a sail
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 29, 2007
      I'm in the planning stages preparing to build a Micro and I have two
      questions for my first post to this group?

      --Is there any reason why I couldn't put a sail track on the mast of
      the spritsail rig. This would allow reefing the main without
      interference from the snotter (I know that a halyard and some kind of
      outhaul will be needed). Has anybody tried this with one of Bolger's
      rigs?

      --I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it can be
      stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?

      Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

      Dan
    • Bruce Hallman
      ... After having built more than a few Bolger boats, I have learned the lesson that, all too often, my improvements to the plans have unintended
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 29, 2007
        > Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

        After having built more than a few Bolger boats, I have learned the
        lesson that, all too often, my 'improvements' to the plans have
        unintended consequences. This is even more true with the Bolger boats
        which have been built the most (like the Micro). It is hard to
        improve on the 'tried and tested' and I suggest you first build the
        boat exactly per plans, sail it a bit, and then start to make your
        improvements.
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... The plans call for 5/8 sail track. To my eye, the Shaefer 184053 5/8 track sold by West Marine is the right stuff, and not all that expensive.
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 29, 2007
          > If I recall correctly, the building key for Micro calls for a sail
          > track.

          The plans call for 5/8" sail track.

          To my eye, the Shaefer 184053 5/8" track sold by West Marine is the
          right stuff, and not all that expensive.

          http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/71951/0/0/
        • danieljamesstewart4
          ... sail ... Not knowing much about spritsail rigs I guess I assumed that they were all such that the sail was laced to the mast. Looking again at the Micro
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 29, 2007
            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...> wrote:
            >
            > If I recall correctly, the building key for Micro calls for a sail
            > track. I had a Micro mainsail for a while that had the slugs for a
            sail
            > track, as well.
            >

            Not knowing much about spritsail rigs I guess I assumed that they were
            all such that the sail was laced to the mast. Looking again at the
            Micro building key, it does call for a halyard and that lets out hoops
            or lacing with the snotter in the way. There's no specific mention of
            a sail track, though. Perhaps it goes without saying.

            Thanks again.
          • John Bell
            If I recall correctly, the building key for Micro calls for a sail track. I had a Micro mainsail for a while that had the slugs for a sail track, as well.
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 29, 2007
              If I recall correctly, the building key for Micro calls for a sail
              track. I had a Micro mainsail for a while that had the slugs for a sail
              track, as well.


              danieljamesstewart4 wrote:
              > I'm in the planning stages preparing to build a Micro and I have two
              > questions for my first post to this group?
              >
              > --Is there any reason why I couldn't put a sail track on the mast of
              > the spritsail rig. This would allow reefing the main without
              > interference from the snotter (I know that a halyard and some kind of
              > outhaul will be needed). Has anybody tried this with one of Bolger's
              > rigs?
              >
              > --I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it can be
              > stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?
              >
              > Thanks for any comments or suggestions.
              >
              > Dan
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Bruce Hallman
              ... Look on drawing sheet 5 of 5, right hand side.
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 29, 2007
                > There's no specific mention of a sail track, though.

                Look on drawing sheet 5 of 5, right hand side.
              • zavalacat
                ... Hey, that s what that little sqiggly thing is. Dang. Why didn t I see that? I m going to start soon also. I think it say s 5/8 track, yes? Thanks Bruce.
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 29, 2007
                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:

                  Hey, that's what that little sqiggly thing is. Dang. Why didn't I see
                  that? I'm going to start soon also. I think it say's 5/8 track, yes?
                  Thanks Bruce. Charles Rouse

                  >
                  > > There's no specific mention of a sail track, though.
                  >
                  > Look on drawing sheet 5 of 5, right hand side.
                  >
                • Bruce Hallman
                  Also interesting, PCB notes that the mast wood, if scarfed, should not be less than 7:1. Considering that the conventional wisdom is that 8:1 scarfs are a
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 29, 2007
                    Also interesting, PCB notes that the mast wood, if scarfed, should not
                    be less than 7:1.

                    Considering that the 'conventional wisdom' is that 8:1 scarfs are a
                    minimum, (and at times you see people doing 12:1), for PCB to spec' a
                    7:1 just reinforces the understanding that the Micro is intended to be
                    all around simple, easy and low stress.
                  • Bill
                    Dan, I am currently building a Long Micro, and the plans call for 5/8 inch T sail track. The same should be fine for your Micro, as others have noted. In
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 29, 2007
                      Dan,
                      I am currently building a Long Micro, and the plans call for 5/8 inch
                      "T" sail track. The same should be fine for your Micro, as others
                      have noted.

                      In regards to a mast tabernacle, Jason Stancil built a micro-like
                      /navigator-like boat a few years ago, with a mast tabernacle. There
                      are some large pictures of his boat hiding in the files (not photos)
                      section of Bolger 6. Worth a look. Jim Michalak's newsletter had a
                      good article on mast tabernacles a while back. You can find a link to
                      his newsletter from the Duckworks magazine website. Both are
                      excellent resources. My advice? Consider any modifications very
                      carefully- but build what you want.

                      Bill, LM builder, in Ohio

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "danieljamesstewart4" <stewartd@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I'm in the planning stages preparing to build a Micro and I have two
                      > questions for my first post to this group?
                      >
                      > --Is there any reason why I couldn't put a sail track on the mast of
                      > the spritsail rig. This would allow reefing the main without
                      > interference from the snotter (I know that a halyard and some kind of
                      > outhaul will be needed). Has anybody tried this with one of Bolger's
                      > rigs?
                      >
                      > --I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it can be
                      > stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?
                      >
                      > Thanks for any comments or suggestions.
                      >
                      > Dan
                      >
                    • Susan Davis
                      ... If by anyone you mean PCB , then the answer would be yes. :-) The updated Micro II (contact PCB&F for update sheet) has a tabernacle standard, and
                      Message 10 of 18 , Mar 29, 2007
                        "danieljamesstewart4" <stewartd@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it can be
                        > stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?

                        If by "anyone" you mean "PCB", then the answer would be yes. :-) The
                        updated Micro II (contact PCB&F for update sheet) has a tabernacle
                        standard, and swaps out the leg o'mutton main for a Chinese gaff. The
                        tabernacle mast is set forward of the old bow, so there might be a tiny
                        bit of adaptation necessary to get the old sails to balance just right
                        with the new mast location -- PCB would know, and the effect ought to
                        be tiny.

                        --
                        Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
                      • gilberj55
                        Hello, I could be completely mistaken in this case, but I thought those small bolger boats of that era with the cat yawl sprit rig were supposed to leave the
                        Message 11 of 18 , Mar 29, 2007
                          Hello,
                          I could be completely mistaken in this case, but I thought those
                          small bolger boats of that era with the cat yawl sprit rig were
                          supposed to leave the sail set on the mast while in service, and were
                          laced to the mast. The sail was to be stowed or furled by rolling it
                          up from the clew to the mast. If a reef is considered necessary it
                          would be a vertical reef taking up to the mast, almost a brail. By
                          letting the sheet go this should be not very difficult, assuming the
                          reef lacing is in place and ready. There should be no problem with
                          the snotter that I can see with this system, but I have not actually
                          used it so would happily defer to someone who has.
                          JG

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > If I recall correctly, the building key for Micro calls for a sail
                          > track. I had a Micro mainsail for a while that had the slugs for a
                          sail
                          > track, as well.
                          >
                          >
                          > danieljamesstewart4 wrote:
                          > > I'm in the planning stages preparing to build a Micro and I have
                          two
                          > > questions for my first post to this group?
                          > >
                          > > --Is there any reason why I couldn't put a sail track on the mast
                          of
                          > > the spritsail rig. This would allow reefing the main without
                          > > interference from the snotter (I know that a halyard and some
                          kind of
                          > > outhaul will be needed). Has anybody tried this with one of
                          Bolger's
                          > > rigs?
                          > >
                          > > --I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it
                          can be
                          > > stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks for any comments or suggestions.
                          > >
                          > > Dan
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Nels
                          ... Also Daniel do you have the latest upgrades to the Micro plans? They include, a tabernacled mainmast and a different bow design including anti-slap pad.
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 30, 2007
                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > There's no specific mention of a sail track, though.
                            >
                            > Look on drawing sheet 5 of 5, right hand side.
                            >

                            Also Daniel do you have the latest upgrades to the Micro plans?

                            They include, a tabernacled mainmast and a different bow design
                            including anti-slap pad. These upgrades are included in the Micro
                            Navigator upgrade plans, but also apply to the standard version.

                            If you are working from older plans, the upgrade is available for
                            $50 I believe. You might also want to consider the foward hatch
                            arrangement suggested on the upgrade, since the tabernacled mast is
                            further forward giving more space in the forward well.

                            I posted some scans showing the modifications at Bolger4 a couple
                            years ago.

                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/MICRO%20NAVIGATOR/

                            Nels
                          • graeme19121984
                            There s a good clear photo taken off the starboard bow of Roger Keyes Paloma Blanca at p26 of cruising helmsman this month. Pilothouse, twin snotters, and
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 31, 2007
                              There's a good clear photo taken off the starboard bow of Roger
                              Keyes' Paloma Blanca at p26 of "cruising helmsman" this month.
                              Pilothouse, twin snotters, and assorted other accoutrements are
                              visible, and, of course, he's moving well off the Southern Ocean
                              coast. The pic is similar to those in files, but is probably taken
                              at much closer range.

                              The photo illustrates Roger's recounted experience with the Micro in
                              a broader article on how to gain low cost entry to the cruising
                              lifestyle.
                              http://www.yaffa.com.au/mags/crhmag.htm


                              Graeme


                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > There's no specific mention of a sail track, though.
                            • Bruce Hallman
                              ... I think Daniel is thinking of the sprit rig. The upgrade tabernacle is for the Navigator rig, and moves the mast forward. I don t think it would be
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 31, 2007
                                > Also Daniel do you have the latest upgrades to the Micro plans?
                                >
                                > They include, a tabernacled mainmast and a different bow design
                                > including anti-slap pad. These upgrades are included in the Micro
                                > Navigator upgrade plans, but also apply to the standard version.


                                I think Daniel is thinking of the sprit rig. The 'upgrade'
                                tabernacle is for the Navigator rig, and moves the mast forward. I
                                don't think it would be wise to mix the two without consulting with
                                PB&F to get a new balanced shape to cut the sprit mainsail.

                                Also, owning one, I favor the navigator rig only because it is
                                essential to allow the sailing from within the inside of the excellent
                                navigator cabin. A micro navigator has no cockpit.

                                I think Daniel is leaning towards the cuddy version, and that would
                                indicate the use of the vastly simpler sprit rig.

                                Personally, I don't really find that stepping and unstepping the main
                                mast is all that hard, because by standing on top of the cabin one has
                                an excellent angle to balance point and handle it all. What I do find
                                to be hard to do is to keep the rather large tangle of lines straight
                                when the mast is horizontal. Be aware that the jaws from the boom,
                                three battens and gaff all need to be eased off the mast to allow the
                                mast to swing down on the tabernacle. In my experience, it is the
                                loose jaws that contribute to the tangle.

                                The other thing that makes for tangle is that I have chosen (found
                                necessary) to use a double part for the jaw halyard and both the
                                topping lifts. I therefore have six runs of lines for the topping
                                lift (up, down, up) x 2 and three runs for the jaw halyard (up, down,
                                up) and two for the peak halyard (up, down), plus the vang line to get
                                in the mix. Plus, there are four fairly complex runs of line for the
                                reefing. 17 parts of line at the mast. (And, don't forget the lines,
                                sheets, and sheetlets aft) Compare this with the MUCH simpler sprit
                                rig.

                                Not that I am not happy with my navigator rig, I am very much
                                (extremely) happy with my navigator cabin, and the complex rig is
                                therefore necessary. Once it is built and once the initial set up is
                                over, the complexity of the rig is not nearly so overwhelming.
                              • danieljamesstewart4
                                Despite the injunction against the Thanks Bruce, regards, Dan sort of post, let me say that I have been around the internet for almost 20 years and you crowd
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 31, 2007
                                  Despite the injunction against the "Thanks Bruce, regards, Dan" sort
                                  of post, let me say that I have been around the internet for almost
                                  20 years and you crowd are the most helpful and courteous members of
                                  a mailing list I have yet encountered (nevermind my dumb questions).
                                  What nice people you are!

                                  So, regards,

                                  Dan

                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Also Daniel do you have the latest upgrades to the Micro plans?
                                  > >
                                  > > They include, a tabernacled mainmast and a different bow design
                                  > > including anti-slap pad. These upgrades are included in the
                                  Micro
                                  > > Navigator upgrade plans, but also apply to the standard version.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I think Daniel is thinking of the sprit rig. The 'upgrade'
                                  > tabernacle is for the Navigator rig, and moves the mast forward. I
                                  > d
                                • Kristine Bennett
                                  Dan, I think it goes with the calaber of people that build their own boats or airplanes for that matter. When you set out to build something like then you are
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Mar 31, 2007
                                    Dan, I think it goes with the calaber of people that
                                    build their own boats or airplanes for that matter.
                                    When you set out to build something like then you are
                                    always going to have questions and no one of us is as
                                    smart as all of us together!

                                    I too have been on a number of lists and the boat
                                    building groups and the aircraft building groupes have
                                    been the most helpful all around.

                                    The one thing both tend to live by "There is no dumb
                                    question. The only dumb question is the one never
                                    asked and should have been."

                                    I also have to pipe up here and say Thank You all for
                                    being so helpful and putting up with me.

                                    Blessing to all
                                    Krissie

                                    --- danieljamesstewart4 <stewartd@...> wrote:

                                    > Despite the injunction against the "Thanks Bruce,
                                    > regards, Dan" sort
                                    > of post, let me say that I have been around the
                                    > internet for almost
                                    > 20 years and you crowd are the most helpful and
                                    > courteous members of
                                    > a mailing list I have yet encountered (nevermind my
                                    > dumb questions).
                                    > What nice people you are!
                                    >
                                    > So, regards,
                                    >
                                    > Dan
                                    >




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                                  • alefoot
                                    ... Hi Dan Our Micro has a tabernacled main mast, owner designed rather than built to Phil and Susanne s design. Susanne s seen pictures, and only had nice
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Apr 1, 2007
                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "danieljamesstewart4" <stewartd@...> wrote:

                                      > --I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it can be
                                      > stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?

                                      Hi Dan

                                      Our Micro has a tabernacled main mast, "owner designed" rather than
                                      built to Phil and Susanne's design. Susanne's seen pictures, and only
                                      had nice things to say, although I should be absolutely clear that I'm
                                      not suggesting that she or Phil endorse my fooling around.
                                      Anyway, it works fine. I did the DIY thing partly because the PB&F
                                      designed tabernacle changed the sail balance and implied a revised
                                      mizzen. DIY kept the sails we already had.

                                      The main advantage of the tabernacle is not that it is easier than
                                      stepping the main in the original manner [although it can be when the
                                      wind gets up] but rather that the tabernacled version is a lot quicker
                                      to deploy from a trailer. Before, we carried the masts in stubby
                                      gallows while on the road, and at the ramp the masts had to be lifted
                                      clear, the gallows removed , the tiedowns disposed of, the masts
                                      stepped, blah, blah. Now, the mizzen straps to the main while
                                      travelling, and at the ramp the main can be swung into position in a
                                      blink. All the cordage associated with our gaff rig remains connected.

                                      cheers
                                      Derek
                                    • graeme19121984
                                      Hey, just noticed that reaching spinnaker on the bow tabernacle upgrade plans Nels filed. Any ideas on how big it is, and whether it could be flown from the
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
                                        Hey, just noticed that reaching spinnaker on the bow tabernacle
                                        upgrade plans Nels filed. Any ideas on how big it is, and whether it
                                        could be flown from the standard sharpie mainsail mast (also in the
                                        tabernacle mod)?


                                        Graeme

                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > > There's no specific mention of a sail track, though.
                                        > >
                                        > > Look on drawing sheet 5 of 5, right hand side.
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > Also Daniel do you have the latest upgrades to the Micro plans?

                                        > I posted some scans showing the modifications at Bolger4 a couple
                                        > years ago.
                                        >
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/MICRO%20NAVIGATOR/
                                        >
                                        > Nels
                                        >
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