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Re: [bolger] Re: Superbrick modification? was Class IV Ostar Racer

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  • Mark Albanese
    Guess that s a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain t exactly massive ; but it is lead. Paul, if you re building this just to grab the prize money, guess you can count
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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      Guess that's a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain't exactly "massive"; but
      it is lead.
      Paul, if you're building this just to grab the prize money, guess you
      can count on my 20 bucks.
      Mark



      On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

      > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
      >> need substantial ballast.
      >
      > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
      >
      > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be
      > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards, most if
      > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1 1/4"
      > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
      > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel ballast
      > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
      > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as usually
      > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as possible
      > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and, ideally,
      > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen in a
      > big breaking wave."
      >
    • Howard Stephenson
      Seeing Krissie s post and Bruce s idea of re-drawing it to reduce displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull and deck could be built of steel. But,
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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        Seeing Krissie's post and Bruce's idea of re-drawing it to reduce
        displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull and deck could be
        built of steel.

        But, with so many dead-flat panels, the shape is not really suitable
        for steel and the displacement as drawn is only 3350 lb. You'd need
        something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus framing timber,
        paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and fuel, sailing rig,
        leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings, hatches, windows,
        ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus personal
        effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils, crockery and
        cutlery etc.

        With all that and the ballast Bruce has told us about, there
        wouldn't be much change left out of 3350 lb.

        Howard

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I was looking at the rendering of the Superbrick and
        > think a sheet of steel formed to the hull would give
        > you some of the ballast needed and it would also help
        > with grounding.
        >
        > Yes I know you would need a bunch of counter sunk
        > holes to bolt it on. But you could also drill and tape
        > them and on the outside plug weld the holes to seal
        > them.
        >
        > Blessings all Krissie
        >
        > --- Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
        >
        > > The plans do not specify lead but I had already
        > > figured that it will
        > > need substantial ballast. Have been accumulating
        > > large amounts of
        > > wheel weights from a friend who runs a tire store
        > > for several months
        > > now. Both superbrick and my other boat project, a
        > > Sam Devlin Winter
        > > Wren started by Dave Lipsey will require a good bit
        > > of it and I am
        > > casting it into bricks that can be used in either
        > > project. Devlin's
        > > plans call for lead bricks and shot cast in epoxy
        > > rather than
        > > casting the entire keel and I will use this with
        > > superbrick as well.
        > >
        > > BTW, the boat will be named Irresponsible, the name
        > > taken from the
        > > last paragraph in Bolger's article on it in BWAOM:
        > >
        > > "Irresponsible. A gratuitous mockery of
        > > right-thinking boatmen and
        > > other snobs."
        > >
        > > Being one who has always been a little different
        > > that line was what
        > > clenched the deal for me on building her and seemed
        > > the perfect name.
        > >
        > > Paul H.
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese
        > > <marka@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Bruce, I'm looking at the Superbrick drawings but
        > > cannot find the
        > > > lead. It isn't needed. The DWL is only at 3350#.
        > > Say a long ton
        > > on
        > > > the structure and a 1000 for a payload?
        > > > I really liked you own drawing, but didn't expect
        > > the step garvey
        > > > when you wrote "easing the chines". Just slicing
        > > them off be yet
        > > > another way to do it.
        > > >
        > > > Mark
        > > > > snip
        > > >
        > > > > the massive volume of the hull requires massive
        > > lead ballast to
        > > > > get the hull to float down on waterline.
        > > > >
        > > > > By 'easing' the chine, you can set between
        > > trailer wheels, plus
        > > you
        > > > > can reduce the amount of needed lead ballast.
        > > > >
        > > > > It has the problem that it complicates the
        > > cabin, especially
        > > impeding
        > > > > on the standing headroom in the toilet.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > >
        > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/AlternateSuperbrickHull.gif
        > > > >
        > > > > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/althull.gif
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
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      • Paul
        This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of the key, apparently I am missing a page. ... will ... be ... most if ... 1/4 ... ballast
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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          This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of
          the key, apparently I am missing a page.

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
          >
          > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it
          will
          > > need substantial ballast.
          >
          > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
          >
          > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can
          be
          > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards,
          most if
          > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1
          1/4"
          > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
          > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel
          ballast
          > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
          > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as
          usually
          > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as
          possible
          > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and,
          ideally,
          > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen
          in a
          > big breaking wave."
          >
        • Paul Hardy
          The bucks are only a bonus. I like the boat and mainly am building because it looks like it will suit my needs. Meeting others in the group when they come to
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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            The bucks are only a bonus. I like the boat and mainly am building because
            it looks like it will suit my needs. Meeting others in the group when they
            come to see it will be more important than any dollars.



            Paul



            _____

            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Mark Albanese
            Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 3:47 PM
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Superbrick modification? was Class IV Ostar Racer



            Guess that's a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain't exactly "massive"; but
            it is lead.
            Paul, if you're building this just to grab the prize money, guess you
            can count on my 20 bucks.
            Mark

            On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

            > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@hotmail. <mailto:p_hardy%40hotmail.com> com>
            wrote:
            >>
            >> The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
            >> need substantial ballast.
            >
            > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
            >
            > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be
            > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards, most if
            > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1 1/4"
            > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
            > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel ballast
            > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
            > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as usually
            > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as possible
            > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and, ideally,
            > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen in a
            > big breaking wave."
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Howard Stephenson
            -- not forgetting a battery, electrics, electronics, icebox, stove and gas bottles. Howard
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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              -- not forgetting a battery, electrics, electronics, icebox, stove
              and gas bottles.

              Howard

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
              <howardstephenson@...> wrote:

              > displacement as drawn is only 3350 lb. You'd need
              > something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus framing timber,
              > paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and fuel, sailing rig,
              > leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings, hatches, windows,
              > ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus personal
              > effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils, crockery and
              > cutlery etc.
            • Kristine Bennett
              One of the other ideas I had after seeing the shallow CAD drawings was put a little diesel with a straight shaft and gear in it, as just a slowpoke to beebop
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                One of the other ideas I had after seeing the shallow
                CAD drawings was put a little diesel with a straight
                shaft and gear in it, as just a slowpoke to beebop
                around the sound. And with a 12 to 18 Hp diesel you
                would really have to run her hard to burn more then
                3/4 gallon an hour. Then again the hull speed is
                something around 6.5 knots.

                The other thing is where are you going to get the
                weight to set her down in the water?

                OK so you have a small powerbarge that you can put a
                lot of people on and not sink it.

                Hey building her out of steel wouldn't be a bad way to
                go. But you may have more draft then you want to have.

                Blessings Krissie


                --- Howard Stephenson <howardstephenson@...>
                wrote:

                > Seeing Krissie's post and Bruce's idea of re-drawing
                > it to reduce
                > displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull
                > and deck could be
                > built of steel.
                >
                > But, with so many dead-flat panels, the shape is not
                > really suitable
                > for steel and the displacement as drawn is only 3350
                > lb. You'd need
                > something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus
                > framing timber,
                > paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and
                > fuel, sailing rig,
                > leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings,
                > hatches, windows,
                > ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus
                > personal
                > effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils,
                > crockery and
                > cutlery etc.
                >
                > With all that and the ballast Bruce has told us
                > about, there
                > wouldn't be much change left out of 3350 lb.
                >
                > Howard




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              • Bruce Hallman
                ... Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page) 57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to taste... 58.Dresser with
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                  > This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of
                  > the key, apparently I am missing a page.

                  Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page)

                  57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to taste...
                  58.Dresser with legroom...to be used as desk.
                  59.Motor, ...5 1/2 knots max. with 6 hp motor, low pitch 3 or 4 blade propeller.
                  60.Fuel tanks as convenient, strapped in place.
                  61.Ballast...at least 500lbs, bolted down.
                • Paul
                  Thanks Bruce. I faxed Phil this afternoon and asked for a replacement page. Paul H. ... 3 of ... taste... ... blade propeller.
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                    Thanks Bruce. I faxed Phil this afternoon and asked for a
                    replacement page.

                    Paul H.

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page
                    3 of
                    > > the key, apparently I am missing a page.
                    >
                    > Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page)
                    >
                    > 57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to
                    taste...
                    > 58.Dresser with legroom...to be used as desk.
                    > 59.Motor, ...5 1/2 knots max. with 6 hp motor, low pitch 3 or 4
                    blade propeller.
                    > 60.Fuel tanks as convenient, strapped in place.
                    > 61.Ballast...at least 500lbs, bolted down.
                    >
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