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Re: [bolger] Re: Superbrick modification? was Class IV Ostar Racer

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  • Bruce Hallman
    ... Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61: Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be in lead slabs or
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
      On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
      >
      > The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
      > need substantial ballast.

      Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:

      "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be
      in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards, most if
      not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1 1/4"
      thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
      equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel ballast
      could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
      possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as usually
      loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as possible
      it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and, ideally,
      not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen in a
      big breaking wave."
    • Kristine Bennett
      I was looking at the rendering of the Superbrick and think a sheet of steel formed to the hull would give you some of the ballast needed and it would also help
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
        I was looking at the rendering of the Superbrick and
        think a sheet of steel formed to the hull would give
        you some of the ballast needed and it would also help
        with grounding.

        Yes I know you would need a bunch of counter sunk
        holes to bolt it on. But you could also drill and tape
        them and on the outside plug weld the holes to seal
        them.

        Blessings all Krissie

        --- Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:

        > The plans do not specify lead but I had already
        > figured that it will
        > need substantial ballast. Have been accumulating
        > large amounts of
        > wheel weights from a friend who runs a tire store
        > for several months
        > now. Both superbrick and my other boat project, a
        > Sam Devlin Winter
        > Wren started by Dave Lipsey will require a good bit
        > of it and I am
        > casting it into bricks that can be used in either
        > project. Devlin's
        > plans call for lead bricks and shot cast in epoxy
        > rather than
        > casting the entire keel and I will use this with
        > superbrick as well.
        >
        > BTW, the boat will be named Irresponsible, the name
        > taken from the
        > last paragraph in Bolger's article on it in BWAOM:
        >
        > "Irresponsible. A gratuitous mockery of
        > right-thinking boatmen and
        > other snobs."
        >
        > Being one who has always been a little different
        > that line was what
        > clenched the deal for me on building her and seemed
        > the perfect name.
        >
        > Paul H.
        >
        >
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese
        > <marka@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Bruce, I'm looking at the Superbrick drawings but
        > cannot find the
        > > lead. It isn't needed. The DWL is only at 3350#.
        > Say a long ton
        > on
        > > the structure and a 1000 for a payload?
        > > I really liked you own drawing, but didn't expect
        > the step garvey
        > > when you wrote "easing the chines". Just slicing
        > them off be yet
        > > another way to do it.
        > >
        > > Mark
        > > > snip
        > >
        > > > the massive volume of the hull requires massive
        > lead ballast to
        > > > get the hull to float down on waterline.
        > > >
        > > > By 'easing' the chine, you can set between
        > trailer wheels, plus
        > you
        > > > can reduce the amount of needed lead ballast.
        > > >
        > > > It has the problem that it complicates the
        > cabin, especially
        > impeding
        > > > on the standing headroom in the toilet.
        > > >
        > > >
        >
        http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/AlternateSuperbrickHull.gif
        > > >
        > > > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/althull.gif
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >




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      • Mark Albanese
        Guess that s a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain t exactly massive ; but it is lead. Paul, if you re building this just to grab the prize money, guess you can count
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
          Guess that's a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain't exactly "massive"; but
          it is lead.
          Paul, if you're building this just to grab the prize money, guess you
          can count on my 20 bucks.
          Mark



          On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

          > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
          >> need substantial ballast.
          >
          > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
          >
          > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be
          > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards, most if
          > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1 1/4"
          > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
          > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel ballast
          > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
          > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as usually
          > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as possible
          > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and, ideally,
          > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen in a
          > big breaking wave."
          >
        • Howard Stephenson
          Seeing Krissie s post and Bruce s idea of re-drawing it to reduce displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull and deck could be built of steel. But,
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
            Seeing Krissie's post and Bruce's idea of re-drawing it to reduce
            displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull and deck could be
            built of steel.

            But, with so many dead-flat panels, the shape is not really suitable
            for steel and the displacement as drawn is only 3350 lb. You'd need
            something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus framing timber,
            paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and fuel, sailing rig,
            leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings, hatches, windows,
            ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus personal
            effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils, crockery and
            cutlery etc.

            With all that and the ballast Bruce has told us about, there
            wouldn't be much change left out of 3350 lb.

            Howard

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I was looking at the rendering of the Superbrick and
            > think a sheet of steel formed to the hull would give
            > you some of the ballast needed and it would also help
            > with grounding.
            >
            > Yes I know you would need a bunch of counter sunk
            > holes to bolt it on. But you could also drill and tape
            > them and on the outside plug weld the holes to seal
            > them.
            >
            > Blessings all Krissie
            >
            > --- Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
            >
            > > The plans do not specify lead but I had already
            > > figured that it will
            > > need substantial ballast. Have been accumulating
            > > large amounts of
            > > wheel weights from a friend who runs a tire store
            > > for several months
            > > now. Both superbrick and my other boat project, a
            > > Sam Devlin Winter
            > > Wren started by Dave Lipsey will require a good bit
            > > of it and I am
            > > casting it into bricks that can be used in either
            > > project. Devlin's
            > > plans call for lead bricks and shot cast in epoxy
            > > rather than
            > > casting the entire keel and I will use this with
            > > superbrick as well.
            > >
            > > BTW, the boat will be named Irresponsible, the name
            > > taken from the
            > > last paragraph in Bolger's article on it in BWAOM:
            > >
            > > "Irresponsible. A gratuitous mockery of
            > > right-thinking boatmen and
            > > other snobs."
            > >
            > > Being one who has always been a little different
            > > that line was what
            > > clenched the deal for me on building her and seemed
            > > the perfect name.
            > >
            > > Paul H.
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese
            > > <marka@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Bruce, I'm looking at the Superbrick drawings but
            > > cannot find the
            > > > lead. It isn't needed. The DWL is only at 3350#.
            > > Say a long ton
            > > on
            > > > the structure and a 1000 for a payload?
            > > > I really liked you own drawing, but didn't expect
            > > the step garvey
            > > > when you wrote "easing the chines". Just slicing
            > > them off be yet
            > > > another way to do it.
            > > >
            > > > Mark
            > > > > snip
            > > >
            > > > > the massive volume of the hull requires massive
            > > lead ballast to
            > > > > get the hull to float down on waterline.
            > > > >
            > > > > By 'easing' the chine, you can set between
            > > trailer wheels, plus
            > > you
            > > > > can reduce the amount of needed lead ballast.
            > > > >
            > > > > It has the problem that it complicates the
            > > cabin, especially
            > > impeding
            > > > > on the standing headroom in the toilet.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > >
            > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/AlternateSuperbrickHull.gif
            > > > >
            > > > > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/althull.gif
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            _______________
            > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
            > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
            > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
            >
          • Paul
            This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of the key, apparently I am missing a page. ... will ... be ... most if ... 1/4 ... ballast
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
              This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of
              the key, apparently I am missing a page.

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
              >
              > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it
              will
              > > need substantial ballast.
              >
              > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
              >
              > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can
              be
              > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards,
              most if
              > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1
              1/4"
              > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
              > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel
              ballast
              > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
              > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as
              usually
              > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as
              possible
              > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and,
              ideally,
              > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen
              in a
              > big breaking wave."
              >
            • Paul Hardy
              The bucks are only a bonus. I like the boat and mainly am building because it looks like it will suit my needs. Meeting others in the group when they come to
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
                The bucks are only a bonus. I like the boat and mainly am building because
                it looks like it will suit my needs. Meeting others in the group when they
                come to see it will be more important than any dollars.



                Paul



                _____

                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                Mark Albanese
                Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 3:47 PM
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Superbrick modification? was Class IV Ostar Racer



                Guess that's a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain't exactly "massive"; but
                it is lead.
                Paul, if you're building this just to grab the prize money, guess you
                can count on my 20 bucks.
                Mark

                On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

                > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@hotmail. <mailto:p_hardy%40hotmail.com> com>
                wrote:
                >>
                >> The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
                >> need substantial ballast.
                >
                > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
                >
                > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be
                > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards, most if
                > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1 1/4"
                > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
                > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel ballast
                > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
                > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as usually
                > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as possible
                > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and, ideally,
                > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen in a
                > big breaking wave."
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Howard Stephenson
                -- not forgetting a battery, electrics, electronics, icebox, stove and gas bottles. Howard
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
                  -- not forgetting a battery, electrics, electronics, icebox, stove
                  and gas bottles.

                  Howard

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
                  <howardstephenson@...> wrote:

                  > displacement as drawn is only 3350 lb. You'd need
                  > something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus framing timber,
                  > paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and fuel, sailing rig,
                  > leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings, hatches, windows,
                  > ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus personal
                  > effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils, crockery and
                  > cutlery etc.
                • Kristine Bennett
                  One of the other ideas I had after seeing the shallow CAD drawings was put a little diesel with a straight shaft and gear in it, as just a slowpoke to beebop
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
                    One of the other ideas I had after seeing the shallow
                    CAD drawings was put a little diesel with a straight
                    shaft and gear in it, as just a slowpoke to beebop
                    around the sound. And with a 12 to 18 Hp diesel you
                    would really have to run her hard to burn more then
                    3/4 gallon an hour. Then again the hull speed is
                    something around 6.5 knots.

                    The other thing is where are you going to get the
                    weight to set her down in the water?

                    OK so you have a small powerbarge that you can put a
                    lot of people on and not sink it.

                    Hey building her out of steel wouldn't be a bad way to
                    go. But you may have more draft then you want to have.

                    Blessings Krissie


                    --- Howard Stephenson <howardstephenson@...>
                    wrote:

                    > Seeing Krissie's post and Bruce's idea of re-drawing
                    > it to reduce
                    > displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull
                    > and deck could be
                    > built of steel.
                    >
                    > But, with so many dead-flat panels, the shape is not
                    > really suitable
                    > for steel and the displacement as drawn is only 3350
                    > lb. You'd need
                    > something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus
                    > framing timber,
                    > paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and
                    > fuel, sailing rig,
                    > leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings,
                    > hatches, windows,
                    > ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus
                    > personal
                    > effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils,
                    > crockery and
                    > cutlery etc.
                    >
                    > With all that and the ballast Bruce has told us
                    > about, there
                    > wouldn't be much change left out of 3350 lb.
                    >
                    > Howard




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                  • Bruce Hallman
                    ... Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page) 57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to taste... 58.Dresser with
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
                      > This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of
                      > the key, apparently I am missing a page.

                      Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page)

                      57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to taste...
                      58.Dresser with legroom...to be used as desk.
                      59.Motor, ...5 1/2 knots max. with 6 hp motor, low pitch 3 or 4 blade propeller.
                      60.Fuel tanks as convenient, strapped in place.
                      61.Ballast...at least 500lbs, bolted down.
                    • Paul
                      Thanks Bruce. I faxed Phil this afternoon and asked for a replacement page. Paul H. ... 3 of ... taste... ... blade propeller.
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
                        Thanks Bruce. I faxed Phil this afternoon and asked for a
                        replacement page.

                        Paul H.

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page
                        3 of
                        > > the key, apparently I am missing a page.
                        >
                        > Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page)
                        >
                        > 57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to
                        taste...
                        > 58.Dresser with legroom...to be used as desk.
                        > 59.Motor, ...5 1/2 knots max. with 6 hp motor, low pitch 3 or 4
                        blade propeller.
                        > 60.Fuel tanks as convenient, strapped in place.
                        > 61.Ballast...at least 500lbs, bolted down.
                        >
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