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Re: Superbrick modification? was Class IV Ostar Racer

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  • Paul
    The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will need substantial ballast. Have been accumulating large amounts of wheel weights from a
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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      The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
      need substantial ballast. Have been accumulating large amounts of
      wheel weights from a friend who runs a tire store for several months
      now. Both superbrick and my other boat project, a Sam Devlin Winter
      Wren started by Dave Lipsey will require a good bit of it and I am
      casting it into bricks that can be used in either project. Devlin's
      plans call for lead bricks and shot cast in epoxy rather than
      casting the entire keel and I will use this with superbrick as well.

      BTW, the boat will be named Irresponsible, the name taken from the
      last paragraph in Bolger's article on it in BWAOM:

      "Irresponsible. A gratuitous mockery of right-thinking boatmen and
      other snobs."

      Being one who has always been a little different that line was what
      clenched the deal for me on building her and seemed the perfect name.

      Paul H.


      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka@...> wrote:
      >
      > Bruce, I'm looking at the Superbrick drawings but cannot find the
      > lead. It isn't needed. The DWL is only at 3350#. Say a long ton
      on
      > the structure and a 1000 for a payload?
      > I really liked you own drawing, but didn't expect the step garvey
      > when you wrote "easing the chines". Just slicing them off be yet
      > another way to do it.
      >
      > Mark
      > > snip
      >
      > > the massive volume of the hull requires massive lead ballast to
      > > get the hull to float down on waterline.
      > >
      > > By 'easing' the chine, you can set between trailer wheels, plus
      you
      > > can reduce the amount of needed lead ballast.
      > >
      > > It has the problem that it complicates the cabin, especially
      impeding
      > > on the standing headroom in the toilet.
      > >
      > > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/AlternateSuperbrickHull.gif
      > >
      > > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/althull.gif
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Bruce Hallman
      ... Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61: Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be in lead slabs or
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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        On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
        >
        > The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
        > need substantial ballast.

        Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:

        "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be
        in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards, most if
        not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1 1/4"
        thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
        equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel ballast
        could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
        possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as usually
        loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as possible
        it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and, ideally,
        not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen in a
        big breaking wave."
      • Kristine Bennett
        I was looking at the rendering of the Superbrick and think a sheet of steel formed to the hull would give you some of the ballast needed and it would also help
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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          I was looking at the rendering of the Superbrick and
          think a sheet of steel formed to the hull would give
          you some of the ballast needed and it would also help
          with grounding.

          Yes I know you would need a bunch of counter sunk
          holes to bolt it on. But you could also drill and tape
          them and on the outside plug weld the holes to seal
          them.

          Blessings all Krissie

          --- Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:

          > The plans do not specify lead but I had already
          > figured that it will
          > need substantial ballast. Have been accumulating
          > large amounts of
          > wheel weights from a friend who runs a tire store
          > for several months
          > now. Both superbrick and my other boat project, a
          > Sam Devlin Winter
          > Wren started by Dave Lipsey will require a good bit
          > of it and I am
          > casting it into bricks that can be used in either
          > project. Devlin's
          > plans call for lead bricks and shot cast in epoxy
          > rather than
          > casting the entire keel and I will use this with
          > superbrick as well.
          >
          > BTW, the boat will be named Irresponsible, the name
          > taken from the
          > last paragraph in Bolger's article on it in BWAOM:
          >
          > "Irresponsible. A gratuitous mockery of
          > right-thinking boatmen and
          > other snobs."
          >
          > Being one who has always been a little different
          > that line was what
          > clenched the deal for me on building her and seemed
          > the perfect name.
          >
          > Paul H.
          >
          >
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese
          > <marka@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Bruce, I'm looking at the Superbrick drawings but
          > cannot find the
          > > lead. It isn't needed. The DWL is only at 3350#.
          > Say a long ton
          > on
          > > the structure and a 1000 for a payload?
          > > I really liked you own drawing, but didn't expect
          > the step garvey
          > > when you wrote "easing the chines". Just slicing
          > them off be yet
          > > another way to do it.
          > >
          > > Mark
          > > > snip
          > >
          > > > the massive volume of the hull requires massive
          > lead ballast to
          > > > get the hull to float down on waterline.
          > > >
          > > > By 'easing' the chine, you can set between
          > trailer wheels, plus
          > you
          > > > can reduce the amount of needed lead ballast.
          > > >
          > > > It has the problem that it complicates the
          > cabin, especially
          > impeding
          > > > on the standing headroom in the toilet.
          > > >
          > > >
          >
          http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/AlternateSuperbrickHull.gif
          > > >
          > > > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/althull.gif
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >




          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
          (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
          http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
        • Mark Albanese
          Guess that s a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain t exactly massive ; but it is lead. Paul, if you re building this just to grab the prize money, guess you can count
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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            Guess that's a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain't exactly "massive"; but
            it is lead.
            Paul, if you're building this just to grab the prize money, guess you
            can count on my 20 bucks.
            Mark



            On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

            > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
            >> need substantial ballast.
            >
            > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
            >
            > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be
            > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards, most if
            > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1 1/4"
            > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
            > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel ballast
            > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
            > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as usually
            > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as possible
            > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and, ideally,
            > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen in a
            > big breaking wave."
            >
          • Howard Stephenson
            Seeing Krissie s post and Bruce s idea of re-drawing it to reduce displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull and deck could be built of steel. But,
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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              Seeing Krissie's post and Bruce's idea of re-drawing it to reduce
              displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull and deck could be
              built of steel.

              But, with so many dead-flat panels, the shape is not really suitable
              for steel and the displacement as drawn is only 3350 lb. You'd need
              something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus framing timber,
              paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and fuel, sailing rig,
              leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings, hatches, windows,
              ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus personal
              effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils, crockery and
              cutlery etc.

              With all that and the ballast Bruce has told us about, there
              wouldn't be much change left out of 3350 lb.

              Howard

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I was looking at the rendering of the Superbrick and
              > think a sheet of steel formed to the hull would give
              > you some of the ballast needed and it would also help
              > with grounding.
              >
              > Yes I know you would need a bunch of counter sunk
              > holes to bolt it on. But you could also drill and tape
              > them and on the outside plug weld the holes to seal
              > them.
              >
              > Blessings all Krissie
              >
              > --- Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
              >
              > > The plans do not specify lead but I had already
              > > figured that it will
              > > need substantial ballast. Have been accumulating
              > > large amounts of
              > > wheel weights from a friend who runs a tire store
              > > for several months
              > > now. Both superbrick and my other boat project, a
              > > Sam Devlin Winter
              > > Wren started by Dave Lipsey will require a good bit
              > > of it and I am
              > > casting it into bricks that can be used in either
              > > project. Devlin's
              > > plans call for lead bricks and shot cast in epoxy
              > > rather than
              > > casting the entire keel and I will use this with
              > > superbrick as well.
              > >
              > > BTW, the boat will be named Irresponsible, the name
              > > taken from the
              > > last paragraph in Bolger's article on it in BWAOM:
              > >
              > > "Irresponsible. A gratuitous mockery of
              > > right-thinking boatmen and
              > > other snobs."
              > >
              > > Being one who has always been a little different
              > > that line was what
              > > clenched the deal for me on building her and seemed
              > > the perfect name.
              > >
              > > Paul H.
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese
              > > <marka@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Bruce, I'm looking at the Superbrick drawings but
              > > cannot find the
              > > > lead. It isn't needed. The DWL is only at 3350#.
              > > Say a long ton
              > > on
              > > > the structure and a 1000 for a payload?
              > > > I really liked you own drawing, but didn't expect
              > > the step garvey
              > > > when you wrote "easing the chines". Just slicing
              > > them off be yet
              > > > another way to do it.
              > > >
              > > > Mark
              > > > > snip
              > > >
              > > > > the massive volume of the hull requires massive
              > > lead ballast to
              > > > > get the hull to float down on waterline.
              > > > >
              > > > > By 'easing' the chine, you can set between
              > > trailer wheels, plus
              > > you
              > > > > can reduce the amount of needed lead ballast.
              > > > >
              > > > > It has the problem that it complicates the
              > > cabin, especially
              > > impeding
              > > > > on the standing headroom in the toilet.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > >
              > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/AlternateSuperbrickHull.gif
              > > > >
              > > > > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/althull.gif
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              _____________________________________________________________________
              _______________
              > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
              > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
              > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
              >
            • Paul
              This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of the key, apparently I am missing a page. ... will ... be ... most if ... 1/4 ... ballast
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of
                the key, apparently I am missing a page.

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                >
                > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it
                will
                > > need substantial ballast.
                >
                > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
                >
                > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can
                be
                > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards,
                most if
                > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1
                1/4"
                > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
                > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel
                ballast
                > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
                > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as
                usually
                > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as
                possible
                > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and,
                ideally,
                > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen
                in a
                > big breaking wave."
                >
              • Paul Hardy
                The bucks are only a bonus. I like the boat and mainly am building because it looks like it will suit my needs. Meeting others in the group when they come to
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                  The bucks are only a bonus. I like the boat and mainly am building because
                  it looks like it will suit my needs. Meeting others in the group when they
                  come to see it will be more important than any dollars.



                  Paul



                  _____

                  From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Mark Albanese
                  Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 3:47 PM
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Superbrick modification? was Class IV Ostar Racer



                  Guess that's a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain't exactly "massive"; but
                  it is lead.
                  Paul, if you're building this just to grab the prize money, guess you
                  can count on my 20 bucks.
                  Mark

                  On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

                  > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@hotmail. <mailto:p_hardy%40hotmail.com> com>
                  wrote:
                  >>
                  >> The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
                  >> need substantial ballast.
                  >
                  > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
                  >
                  > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be
                  > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards, most if
                  > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1 1/4"
                  > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
                  > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel ballast
                  > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
                  > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as usually
                  > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as possible
                  > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and, ideally,
                  > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen in a
                  > big breaking wave."
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Howard Stephenson
                  -- not forgetting a battery, electrics, electronics, icebox, stove and gas bottles. Howard
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                    -- not forgetting a battery, electrics, electronics, icebox, stove
                    and gas bottles.

                    Howard

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
                    <howardstephenson@...> wrote:

                    > displacement as drawn is only 3350 lb. You'd need
                    > something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus framing timber,
                    > paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and fuel, sailing rig,
                    > leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings, hatches, windows,
                    > ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus personal
                    > effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils, crockery and
                    > cutlery etc.
                  • Kristine Bennett
                    One of the other ideas I had after seeing the shallow CAD drawings was put a little diesel with a straight shaft and gear in it, as just a slowpoke to beebop
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                      One of the other ideas I had after seeing the shallow
                      CAD drawings was put a little diesel with a straight
                      shaft and gear in it, as just a slowpoke to beebop
                      around the sound. And with a 12 to 18 Hp diesel you
                      would really have to run her hard to burn more then
                      3/4 gallon an hour. Then again the hull speed is
                      something around 6.5 knots.

                      The other thing is where are you going to get the
                      weight to set her down in the water?

                      OK so you have a small powerbarge that you can put a
                      lot of people on and not sink it.

                      Hey building her out of steel wouldn't be a bad way to
                      go. But you may have more draft then you want to have.

                      Blessings Krissie


                      --- Howard Stephenson <howardstephenson@...>
                      wrote:

                      > Seeing Krissie's post and Bruce's idea of re-drawing
                      > it to reduce
                      > displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull
                      > and deck could be
                      > built of steel.
                      >
                      > But, with so many dead-flat panels, the shape is not
                      > really suitable
                      > for steel and the displacement as drawn is only 3350
                      > lb. You'd need
                      > something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus
                      > framing timber,
                      > paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and
                      > fuel, sailing rig,
                      > leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings,
                      > hatches, windows,
                      > ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus
                      > personal
                      > effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils,
                      > crockery and
                      > cutlery etc.
                      >
                      > With all that and the ballast Bruce has told us
                      > about, there
                      > wouldn't be much change left out of 3350 lb.
                      >
                      > Howard




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                    • Bruce Hallman
                      ... Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page) 57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to taste... 58.Dresser with
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                        > This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of
                        > the key, apparently I am missing a page.

                        Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page)

                        57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to taste...
                        58.Dresser with legroom...to be used as desk.
                        59.Motor, ...5 1/2 knots max. with 6 hp motor, low pitch 3 or 4 blade propeller.
                        60.Fuel tanks as convenient, strapped in place.
                        61.Ballast...at least 500lbs, bolted down.
                      • Paul
                        Thanks Bruce. I faxed Phil this afternoon and asked for a replacement page. Paul H. ... 3 of ... taste... ... blade propeller.
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                          Thanks Bruce. I faxed Phil this afternoon and asked for a
                          replacement page.

                          Paul H.

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page
                          3 of
                          > > the key, apparently I am missing a page.
                          >
                          > Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page)
                          >
                          > 57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to
                          taste...
                          > 58.Dresser with legroom...to be used as desk.
                          > 59.Motor, ...5 1/2 knots max. with 6 hp motor, low pitch 3 or 4
                          blade propeller.
                          > 60.Fuel tanks as convenient, strapped in place.
                          > 61.Ballast...at least 500lbs, bolted down.
                          >
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