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Re: Superbrick modification? was Class IV Ostar Racer

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  • Paul
    According to Bruce Hector s post in duckworks http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/r/articles/superbrick/index.htm To win the pledges the builder must; A: Build
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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      According to Bruce Hector's post in duckworks
      http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/r/articles/superbrick/index.htm

      To win the pledges the builder must;

      A: Build a recognizable Bolger Superbrick from Phil Bolger & Friends
      supplied plans (currently $200) that follows the spirit (as Phil
      says, exercise creativity ONLY above the waterline!).

      B: Sail or wallow (with or without the help of a motor, scull or
      oars!) around a 1 mile triangular course with the sail up.

      C: At the owners/builders convenience permit the pledgers to inspect
      and/or ride in the said Superbrick. Since making friends is the best
      part of owning a unique vessl (and a Superbrick will lead to MANY
      dockside conversations, believe me!) this should not be too onerous.

      Not too difficult a set of requirements and should lead to meeting
      some of ya'll for a few beers on the boat.

      Paul H.


      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > On Mar 3, 2007, at 10:31 PM, Harry James wrote:
      >
      > > This will be the prize winning first constructed Superbrick
      correct?
      > >
      > > HJ
      >
      >
      > Any rules beyond it must sail?
      >
    • Paul
      The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will need substantial ballast. Have been accumulating large amounts of wheel weights from a
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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        The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
        need substantial ballast. Have been accumulating large amounts of
        wheel weights from a friend who runs a tire store for several months
        now. Both superbrick and my other boat project, a Sam Devlin Winter
        Wren started by Dave Lipsey will require a good bit of it and I am
        casting it into bricks that can be used in either project. Devlin's
        plans call for lead bricks and shot cast in epoxy rather than
        casting the entire keel and I will use this with superbrick as well.

        BTW, the boat will be named Irresponsible, the name taken from the
        last paragraph in Bolger's article on it in BWAOM:

        "Irresponsible. A gratuitous mockery of right-thinking boatmen and
        other snobs."

        Being one who has always been a little different that line was what
        clenched the deal for me on building her and seemed the perfect name.

        Paul H.


        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka@...> wrote:
        >
        > Bruce, I'm looking at the Superbrick drawings but cannot find the
        > lead. It isn't needed. The DWL is only at 3350#. Say a long ton
        on
        > the structure and a 1000 for a payload?
        > I really liked you own drawing, but didn't expect the step garvey
        > when you wrote "easing the chines". Just slicing them off be yet
        > another way to do it.
        >
        > Mark
        > > snip
        >
        > > the massive volume of the hull requires massive lead ballast to
        > > get the hull to float down on waterline.
        > >
        > > By 'easing' the chine, you can set between trailer wheels, plus
        you
        > > can reduce the amount of needed lead ballast.
        > >
        > > It has the problem that it complicates the cabin, especially
        impeding
        > > on the standing headroom in the toilet.
        > >
        > > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/AlternateSuperbrickHull.gif
        > >
        > > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/althull.gif
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61: Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be in lead slabs or
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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          On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
          >
          > The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
          > need substantial ballast.

          Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:

          "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be
          in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards, most if
          not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1 1/4"
          thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
          equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel ballast
          could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
          possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as usually
          loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as possible
          it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and, ideally,
          not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen in a
          big breaking wave."
        • Kristine Bennett
          I was looking at the rendering of the Superbrick and think a sheet of steel formed to the hull would give you some of the ballast needed and it would also help
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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            I was looking at the rendering of the Superbrick and
            think a sheet of steel formed to the hull would give
            you some of the ballast needed and it would also help
            with grounding.

            Yes I know you would need a bunch of counter sunk
            holes to bolt it on. But you could also drill and tape
            them and on the outside plug weld the holes to seal
            them.

            Blessings all Krissie

            --- Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:

            > The plans do not specify lead but I had already
            > figured that it will
            > need substantial ballast. Have been accumulating
            > large amounts of
            > wheel weights from a friend who runs a tire store
            > for several months
            > now. Both superbrick and my other boat project, a
            > Sam Devlin Winter
            > Wren started by Dave Lipsey will require a good bit
            > of it and I am
            > casting it into bricks that can be used in either
            > project. Devlin's
            > plans call for lead bricks and shot cast in epoxy
            > rather than
            > casting the entire keel and I will use this with
            > superbrick as well.
            >
            > BTW, the boat will be named Irresponsible, the name
            > taken from the
            > last paragraph in Bolger's article on it in BWAOM:
            >
            > "Irresponsible. A gratuitous mockery of
            > right-thinking boatmen and
            > other snobs."
            >
            > Being one who has always been a little different
            > that line was what
            > clenched the deal for me on building her and seemed
            > the perfect name.
            >
            > Paul H.
            >
            >
            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese
            > <marka@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Bruce, I'm looking at the Superbrick drawings but
            > cannot find the
            > > lead. It isn't needed. The DWL is only at 3350#.
            > Say a long ton
            > on
            > > the structure and a 1000 for a payload?
            > > I really liked you own drawing, but didn't expect
            > the step garvey
            > > when you wrote "easing the chines". Just slicing
            > them off be yet
            > > another way to do it.
            > >
            > > Mark
            > > > snip
            > >
            > > > the massive volume of the hull requires massive
            > lead ballast to
            > > > get the hull to float down on waterline.
            > > >
            > > > By 'easing' the chine, you can set between
            > trailer wheels, plus
            > you
            > > > can reduce the amount of needed lead ballast.
            > > >
            > > > It has the problem that it complicates the
            > cabin, especially
            > impeding
            > > > on the standing headroom in the toilet.
            > > >
            > > >
            >
            http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/AlternateSuperbrickHull.gif
            > > >
            > > > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/althull.gif
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >




            ____________________________________________________________________________________
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          • Mark Albanese
            Guess that s a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain t exactly massive ; but it is lead. Paul, if you re building this just to grab the prize money, guess you can count
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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              Guess that's a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain't exactly "massive"; but
              it is lead.
              Paul, if you're building this just to grab the prize money, guess you
              can count on my 20 bucks.
              Mark



              On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

              > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
              >> need substantial ballast.
              >
              > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
              >
              > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be
              > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards, most if
              > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1 1/4"
              > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
              > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel ballast
              > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
              > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as usually
              > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as possible
              > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and, ideally,
              > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen in a
              > big breaking wave."
              >
            • Howard Stephenson
              Seeing Krissie s post and Bruce s idea of re-drawing it to reduce displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull and deck could be built of steel. But,
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                Seeing Krissie's post and Bruce's idea of re-drawing it to reduce
                displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull and deck could be
                built of steel.

                But, with so many dead-flat panels, the shape is not really suitable
                for steel and the displacement as drawn is only 3350 lb. You'd need
                something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus framing timber,
                paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and fuel, sailing rig,
                leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings, hatches, windows,
                ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus personal
                effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils, crockery and
                cutlery etc.

                With all that and the ballast Bruce has told us about, there
                wouldn't be much change left out of 3350 lb.

                Howard

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I was looking at the rendering of the Superbrick and
                > think a sheet of steel formed to the hull would give
                > you some of the ballast needed and it would also help
                > with grounding.
                >
                > Yes I know you would need a bunch of counter sunk
                > holes to bolt it on. But you could also drill and tape
                > them and on the outside plug weld the holes to seal
                > them.
                >
                > Blessings all Krissie
                >
                > --- Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
                >
                > > The plans do not specify lead but I had already
                > > figured that it will
                > > need substantial ballast. Have been accumulating
                > > large amounts of
                > > wheel weights from a friend who runs a tire store
                > > for several months
                > > now. Both superbrick and my other boat project, a
                > > Sam Devlin Winter
                > > Wren started by Dave Lipsey will require a good bit
                > > of it and I am
                > > casting it into bricks that can be used in either
                > > project. Devlin's
                > > plans call for lead bricks and shot cast in epoxy
                > > rather than
                > > casting the entire keel and I will use this with
                > > superbrick as well.
                > >
                > > BTW, the boat will be named Irresponsible, the name
                > > taken from the
                > > last paragraph in Bolger's article on it in BWAOM:
                > >
                > > "Irresponsible. A gratuitous mockery of
                > > right-thinking boatmen and
                > > other snobs."
                > >
                > > Being one who has always been a little different
                > > that line was what
                > > clenched the deal for me on building her and seemed
                > > the perfect name.
                > >
                > > Paul H.
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese
                > > <marka@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Bruce, I'm looking at the Superbrick drawings but
                > > cannot find the
                > > > lead. It isn't needed. The DWL is only at 3350#.
                > > Say a long ton
                > > on
                > > > the structure and a 1000 for a payload?
                > > > I really liked you own drawing, but didn't expect
                > > the step garvey
                > > > when you wrote "easing the chines". Just slicing
                > > them off be yet
                > > > another way to do it.
                > > >
                > > > Mark
                > > > > snip
                > > >
                > > > > the massive volume of the hull requires massive
                > > lead ballast to
                > > > > get the hull to float down on waterline.
                > > > >
                > > > > By 'easing' the chine, you can set between
                > > trailer wheels, plus
                > > you
                > > > > can reduce the amount of needed lead ballast.
                > > > >
                > > > > It has the problem that it complicates the
                > > cabin, especially
                > > impeding
                > > > > on the standing headroom in the toilet.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > >
                > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/AlternateSuperbrickHull.gif
                > > > >
                > > > > http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/althull.gif
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                _____________________________________________________________________
                _______________
                > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
                >
              • Paul
                This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of the key, apparently I am missing a page. ... will ... be ... most if ... 1/4 ... ballast
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                  This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of
                  the key, apparently I am missing a page.

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it
                  will
                  > > need substantial ballast.
                  >
                  > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
                  >
                  > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can
                  be
                  > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards,
                  most if
                  > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1
                  1/4"
                  > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
                  > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel
                  ballast
                  > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
                  > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as
                  usually
                  > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as
                  possible
                  > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and,
                  ideally,
                  > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen
                  in a
                  > big breaking wave."
                  >
                • Paul Hardy
                  The bucks are only a bonus. I like the boat and mainly am building because it looks like it will suit my needs. Meeting others in the group when they come to
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                    The bucks are only a bonus. I like the boat and mainly am building because
                    it looks like it will suit my needs. Meeting others in the group when they
                    come to see it will be more important than any dollars.



                    Paul



                    _____

                    From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    Mark Albanese
                    Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 3:47 PM
                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Superbrick modification? was Class IV Ostar Racer



                    Guess that's a draw, Bruce. 500 pounds ain't exactly "massive"; but
                    it is lead.
                    Paul, if you're building this just to grab the prize money, guess you
                    can count on my 20 bucks.
                    Mark

                    On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

                    > On 3/4/07, Paul <p_hardy@hotmail. <mailto:p_hardy%40hotmail.com> com>
                    wrote:
                    >>
                    >> The plans do not specify lead but I had already figured that it will
                    >> need substantial ballast.
                    >
                    > Reading from the Superbrick (design#559) building key, note #61:
                    >
                    > "Ballast: There should be at least 500 pounds of ballast. It can be
                    > in lead slabs or bricks across the boat under the floorboards, most if
                    > not all in the bay just ahead of the 'C' bulkhead. A lead slab 1 1/4"
                    > thick, 12" wide (fore and aft), and 7'0" across the boat, or the
                    > equivalent in smaller pieces, will weight 516 pounds. STeel ballast
                    > could be fittee by filling more bays forward and aft. It should be
                    > possible at first to move it around to find the best trim as usually
                    > loaded (use live ballast to try the effect), but as soon as possible
                    > it should be bolted down to keep it from sliding around and, ideally,
                    > not to gall out if the boat should get bottom-up as could happen in a
                    > big breaking wave."
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Howard Stephenson
                    -- not forgetting a battery, electrics, electronics, icebox, stove and gas bottles. Howard
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                      -- not forgetting a battery, electrics, electronics, icebox, stove
                      and gas bottles.

                      Howard

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
                      <howardstephenson@...> wrote:

                      > displacement as drawn is only 3350 lb. You'd need
                      > something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus framing timber,
                      > paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and fuel, sailing rig,
                      > leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings, hatches, windows,
                      > ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus personal
                      > effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils, crockery and
                      > cutlery etc.
                    • Kristine Bennett
                      One of the other ideas I had after seeing the shallow CAD drawings was put a little diesel with a straight shaft and gear in it, as just a slowpoke to beebop
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                        One of the other ideas I had after seeing the shallow
                        CAD drawings was put a little diesel with a straight
                        shaft and gear in it, as just a slowpoke to beebop
                        around the sound. And with a 12 to 18 Hp diesel you
                        would really have to run her hard to burn more then
                        3/4 gallon an hour. Then again the hull speed is
                        something around 6.5 knots.

                        The other thing is where are you going to get the
                        weight to set her down in the water?

                        OK so you have a small powerbarge that you can put a
                        lot of people on and not sink it.

                        Hey building her out of steel wouldn't be a bad way to
                        go. But you may have more draft then you want to have.

                        Blessings Krissie


                        --- Howard Stephenson <howardstephenson@...>
                        wrote:

                        > Seeing Krissie's post and Bruce's idea of re-drawing
                        > it to reduce
                        > displacement made me wonder whether the whole hull
                        > and deck could be
                        > built of steel.
                        >
                        > But, with so many dead-flat panels, the shape is not
                        > really suitable
                        > for steel and the displacement as drawn is only 3350
                        > lb. You'd need
                        > something like 40 sheets of plywood (3/8" ?) plus
                        > framing timber,
                        > paint, glue, fasteners and fittings, outboard and
                        > fuel, sailing rig,
                        > leeboard, water and tanks, soft furnishings,
                        > hatches, windows,
                        > ground tackle, boat handling gear, dinghy, crew plus
                        > personal
                        > effects, sink, Porta-potti, food, cooking utensils,
                        > crockery and
                        > cutlery etc.
                        >
                        > With all that and the ballast Bruce has told us
                        > about, there
                        > wouldn't be much change left out of 3350 lb.
                        >
                        > Howard




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                      • Bruce Hallman
                        ... Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page) 57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to taste... 58.Dresser with
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                          > This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page 3 of
                          > the key, apparently I am missing a page.

                          Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page)

                          57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to taste...
                          58.Dresser with legroom...to be used as desk.
                          59.Motor, ...5 1/2 knots max. with 6 hp motor, low pitch 3 or 4 blade propeller.
                          60.Fuel tanks as convenient, strapped in place.
                          61.Ballast...at least 500lbs, bolted down.
                        • Paul
                          Thanks Bruce. I faxed Phil this afternoon and asked for a replacement page. Paul H. ... 3 of ... taste... ... blade propeller.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Mar 4, 2007
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                            Thanks Bruce. I faxed Phil this afternoon and asked for a
                            replacement page.

                            Paul H.

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > This is interesting, my copy of the plans ends with #57 on page
                            3 of
                            > > the key, apparently I am missing a page.
                            >
                            > Paraphrasing page 4 of the Key, (covers about 1/3 of the page)
                            >
                            > 57.cont.Stove recess to match stove. Drawers and cabinets to
                            taste...
                            > 58.Dresser with legroom...to be used as desk.
                            > 59.Motor, ...5 1/2 knots max. with 6 hp motor, low pitch 3 or 4
                            blade propeller.
                            > 60.Fuel tanks as convenient, strapped in place.
                            > 61.Ballast...at least 500lbs, bolted down.
                            >
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