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Solent lug rig question...

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  • dnjost
    Dear group, Upon further study of the plans for the Birdwatcher II rig and assuring for mast reinforcement at the critical points, I do not see any reference
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 19, 2007
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      Dear group,

      Upon further study of the plans for the Birdwatcher II rig and assuring
      for mast reinforcement at the critical points, I do not see any
      reference on the plans or on the building sequence to a "main halyard"
      or to a block at the top of the mast.

      While waiting for my local library to send along a copy of 100 small
      boat rigs, I wondered if any members of this group had any insight past
      my inclination to install an internal halyard as this spar has plenty
      of room inside for a line to pass. Option B is to hang the block on
      the tapered spar just above the jib halyard which is shown hung from a
      strop.

      Reefing is pretty straightforward, lower the main, move the halyard
      higher on the yard, and reposition the boom to the grommet on the clew
      at the reef point.

      David Jost
      "sitting in the moaning chair abaft the beer and bait fridge"
    • Derek Waters
      Hi David 103 rigs on Solent lug describes a masthead sheave. On the little one I built I used a dumb sheave, but BW is surely big enough for an actual sheave
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 19, 2007
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        Hi David

        103 rigs on Solent lug describes a masthead sheave. On the little one I
        built I used a dumb sheave, but BW is surely big enough for an actual sheave
        to be worthwhile. Bolger describes the yard snugging against the sheave - I
        think a block would prove unwieldy.

        The halyard is indicated running down the fore face of the mast. I'd go that
        way in your place - the inevitable eventual requirement to fish a halyard
        after letting go an end would be enough, even if I were not inclined to use
        the hollow spar as a cable conduit for running lights. A run of pvc conduit
        inside the box makes for a smooth cable feed, should repairs prove
        necessary.

        cheers
        Derek
      • dnjost
        Thank Derek, I bit the bullet and ran a length of tubing inside the inner/upper box for running cable later. That limits my options to blocks or sheaves on
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 19, 2007
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          Thank Derek,

          I bit the bullet and ran a length of tubing inside the inner/upper box
          for running cable later. That limits my options to blocks or sheaves
          on the face of the spar. If someone has a picture or drawing it would
          be appreciated. I agreed that losing the halyard inside and then
          fishing it through again would be a pain in the neck.

          David Jost
        • Bruce Hallman
          ... Trust the plans. PCB usually gets it right. Builder improvements often have unintended consequences. If the plans are unclear, a fax to PB&F should
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 19, 2007
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            > David Jost

            Trust the plans. PCB usually gets it right.
            Builder 'improvements' often have unintended consequences.
            If the plans are unclear, a fax to PB&F should clear it up.
          • oarmandt
            In my BW with Solent lug, I used a dumb sheeve (i.e., a smooth hole in the top of the mast). I believe that is what the plans called for. I think the
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 19, 2007
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              In my BW with Solent lug, I used a dumb sheeve (i.e., a smooth hole in
              the top of the mast). I believe that is what the plans called for. I
              think the hoisting effort is reasonable. I would be wary of chafe if
              the halyard went through a block. It would make quite a mess if it
              let go since the only other attachment of the main to mast is the
              downhaul. There is no extra length on the mast. The sail just clears
              the top of the coaming, so do not mount a block too low.

              Doug


              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear group,
              >
              > Upon further study of the plans for the Birdwatcher II rig and assuring
              > for mast reinforcement at the critical points, I do not see any
              > reference on the plans or on the building sequence to a "main halyard"
              > or to a block at the top of the mast.
              >
            • dnjost
              Doug - That makes a lot of sense as it looks as if the weight of the yard will be sufficient to drop the sail. I imagine that there will be some chafing on
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 19, 2007
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                Doug -

                That makes a lot of sense as it looks as if the weight of the yard will
                be sufficient to drop the sail. I imagine that there will be some
                chafing on the halyard from passing through the holes, but it is easily
                replaceable.

                Did you build the main mast as specified...box spar with an inner box
                up top, and solid inner core below?

                David Jost
              • oarmandt
                I rounded off the edges of the hole through the mast substantially in all directions, but especially downward. Remember that while sailing, the yard will want
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 19, 2007
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                  I rounded off the edges of the hole through the mast substantially in
                  all directions, but especially downward. Remember that while sailing,
                  the yard will want to pull the halyard against the side of the hole.

                  I did build a box spar with staves as specified, in Douglas fir. My
                  plug differed a bit from the plan. I made up a plug of several thin
                  layers of fir. Each succeeding layer that was glued on the core was a
                  bit longer than the one inside. This way I got the gradual increase
                  in stiffness that PCB was looking for with the tapered cuts. It
                  looked a bit unreliable to me to get the ends of the plug as designed
                  glued to the outer staves. Mine was a bit stiffer. I put some small
                  foam plugs inside the wood plug to hold the thinner parts against the
                  outer staves as I was gluing it up. I made this plug in one length,
                  then cut it in two to make the upper and lower pieces.

                  Doug

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Doug -
                  >
                  > That makes a lot of sense as it looks as if the weight of the yard will
                  > be sufficient to drop the sail. I imagine that there will be some
                  > chafing on the halyard from passing through the holes, but it is easily
                  > replaceable.
                  >
                  > Did you build the main mast as specified...box spar with an inner box
                  > up top, and solid inner core below?
                  >
                  > David Jost
                  >
                • Kristine Bennett
                  I would leave the Conduit in and use it for a wireway for a mast light for when you get caught out after dark. And with the new LED lights they can be powered
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 19, 2007
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                    I would leave the Conduit in and use it for a wireway
                    for a mast light for when you get caught out after
                    dark.

                    And with the new LED lights they can be powered by one
                    of the little jump starters.

                    Blessings Krissie

                    --- dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:

                    > Thanks Doug -
                    >
                    > That makes sense. the weight of the yard must be
                    > enough for the sail
                    > to fall, that will also allow for the yard to be
                    > snugged up against
                    > the mast. Oh well, the conduit will need to come
                    > out.
                    >
                    >




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                  • dnjost
                    Krissy, I would have left the conduit in, but the inner passage in the top section is only 1/2 in diameter and it would have blocked the passage of the halyard
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 20, 2007
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                      Krissy,

                      I would have left the conduit in, but the inner passage in the top
                      section is only 1/2 in diameter and it would have blocked the passage
                      of the halyard through the mast. The current plan is to install the
                      wiring through the bottom of the mast in a groove laid between the
                      layers, then up the upper core and out through a hole in the side of
                      the mast just below the halyard passage.

                      I have some concern regarding the draining of any water that might get
                      into the mast and am now planning to rabbet in a passage for both
                      wiring and drainage when doing the bottom core. running the wire up
                      and out the upper core just below the halyards will not be an issue,
                      and will do so during the building process.

                      The LED lights are a great idea.

                      Thanks
                      David
                    • ANDREW AIREY
                      Hi All How big can you go with a Solent Lug.I ve just come across this in 100 small boat rigs and on the face of it it seems ideal for a projected sailing
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 21, 2007
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                        Hi All

                        How big can you go with a Solent Lug.I've just come
                        across this in 100 small boat rigs and on the face of
                        it it seems ideal for a projected sailing barge design
                        that I'm mulling over since it involves a relatively
                        short mast which I would put in a tabernacle so that
                        it could be easily dropped for bridges.I'm surprised
                        that PCB didn't specify it - or something similar -
                        for the Schuyt Houseboat,because that would have been
                        in trouble at the first lock with the amount of mast
                        overhang.Suggested mast height would be 25ft,which
                        would give 40 or 45ft total with a similar yard
                        cheers
                        Andy Airey

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                      • dnjost
                        ... Andy - I am not sure what the limitations are, but I can tell you that the BWII specifies a 19 10 mast with a yard that extends the luff of the main to
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 21, 2007
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                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@...> wrote:
                          Andy -
                          I am not sure what the limitations are, but I can tell you that the
                          BWII specifies a 19'10" mast with a yard that extends the luff of the
                          main to 24'.

                          The biggest advantage I can see is that the rig can be set and struck
                          in a hurry. I honestly bet that if this takes more than 3-4 minutes I
                          would be doing something wrong, and that includes setting up the mast.

                          David Jost
                        • oarmandt
                          I think the limit is how much mass you are willing to muscle around. The yard on the Birdwatcher is 15.5 , essentially a 2x4 in the middle with tapered ends.
                          Message 12 of 14 , Feb 21, 2007
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                            I think the limit is how much mass you are willing to muscle around.
                            The yard on the Birdwatcher is 15.5', essentially a 2x4 in the middle
                            with tapered ends. You are hoisting this along with the main sail. A
                            winch could certainly help with the weight. It could get exciting
                            when the sail is halfway hoisted in a breeze. It becomes a kite with
                            the string from the masthead. You will have the sheet and perhaps a
                            tack line on it, which will keep it from flying away. In the 145
                            square foot Birdwatcher size, it has been easy to keep the sail under
                            control. Hoisting or dousing quickly helps in keeping the sail under
                            control. If there is a winch on the halyard for the weight of the
                            sail and yard, it will slow down hoisting.

                            Doug

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi All
                            >
                            > How big can you go with a Solent Lug.I've just come
                            > across this in 100 small boat rigs and on the face of
                            > it it seems ideal for a projected sailing barge design
                            > that I'm mulling over since it involves a relatively
                            > short mast which I would put in a tabernacle so that
                            > it could be easily dropped for bridges.I'm surprised
                            > that PCB didn't specify it - or something similar -
                            > for the Schuyt Houseboat,because that would have been
                            > in trouble at the first lock with the amount of mast
                            > overhang.Suggested mast height would be 25ft,which
                            > would give 40 or 45ft total with a similar yard
                            > cheers
                            > Andy Airey
                            >
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                            >
                          • ANDREW AIREY
                            Thanks David Will have to dig around in Classic Boat to see if there is anything there about the rig.Unless you are like me with a boat on the cheap end of the
                            Message 13 of 14 , Feb 22, 2007
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                              Thanks David

                              Will have to dig around in Classic Boat to see if
                              there is anything there about the rig.Unless you are
                              like me with a boat on the cheap end of the Hamble
                              (above the railway bridge) and so need a droppable rig
                              or a tabernacle I suppose that most of them would have
                              been converted to Bermudan when that rig became more
                              developed
                              Cheers
                              Andy Airey

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                            • ANDREW AIREY
                              For the use I have in mind it s probably a case of,as the Bishop said to the Actress,how quickly can you get them down.The skipper of the one Dutch barge that
                              Message 14 of 14 , Feb 22, 2007
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                                For the use I have in mind it's probably a case of,as
                                the Bishop said to the Actress,how quickly can you get
                                them down.The skipper of the one Dutch barge that I've
                                had experience of reckoned that it took him about 2
                                1/2 hours to get the mast and (gaff)rig up,although
                                when the barge was launched in 1910 the Dutch were
                                probably much more punctilious about opening bridges
                                than they perhaps are today so it would have been less
                                necessary - mind you the skipper is nearly as old as
                                the barge so all credit to him.The real quickie
                                operations
                                for mast lowering were on the Norfolk Wherries,where
                                they could lower the counterweighted mast and shoot
                                the bridge on the run,although it's a matter of
                                speculation how many didn't quite make it.(See the
                                intro in BWAOM).Looking at pictures of the Thames
                                barges it doesn't look as if the topyard was held on
                                by much,although presumeably that was only hoisted in
                                light airs.
                                The idea I had was for a tripod mast with 2 lightish
                                tubes at the front,forming a ladder as well as
                                stiffening the main tube.The yard would be attached to
                                bearers inside this tube through a slot(potentially
                                noisy??)but the mast could be stayed forward of the
                                yard so that the boom could be set nearly at right
                                angles if required.This is intended as a cruising rig
                                so I want good downwind performance.The mast should be
                                counterweighted,but I think that this could be made
                                removeable,so that on passage where it is not
                                necessary to drop the mast the mast could be locked in
                                place and the counterweight added to the ballast
                                cheers
                                Andy Airey

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