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RE: [bolger] Re: Steel ASharpie: speculation on plate thicknesses?

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  • Kristine Bennett
    There is also one other MAJOR thing insulating the hull does as well...it helps to stop the drumming of the hull and that can make for a sleepless night. Sound
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
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      There is also one other MAJOR thing insulating the
      hull does as well...it helps to stop the drumming of
      the hull and that can make for a sleepless night.

      Sound does travle through steel very well below
      waterline.

      Kristine

      > I can speak from experience. Un-insulated metal
      > interior surfaces of the
      > skin will sweat when they have water on one side
      > that is cooler than the dew
      > point of the humid air on the other. This is not a
      > serious problem in the
      > engine room of a merchant ship, but could be
      > troublesome on a small boat
      > where the living spaces extend below the water line.
      > Another reason to
      > consider insulating the skin of the hull is that it
      > greatly reduces the
      > heating/cooling load.
      >
      > V/R
      > Chris




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    • Kristine Bennett
      Hey Don in all the years I ve been welding I have yet to see a rod or wire for welding wood to steel.... Let s face it when you add wood decks and cabins to a
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
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        Hey Don in all the years I've been welding I have yet
        to see a rod or wire for welding wood to steel....
        Let's face it when you add wood decks and cabins to a
        steel boat you have the best of both world....Rot and
        Rust.

        Dave Gerr does a good job of telling you how to work
        out your scantling for a steel boat in The Nature of
        Boats. I have also see a couple of other books that
        just talk about steel boat building.

        Blessings Krissie
        >
        > I would buy AS 29 plans and Lions Paw plans. The AS
        > 29 plans would
        > provide the panel expansions and other dimensional
        > details. LP will
        > provide the scantlings and tell you about how to do
        > it in steel. I
        > would guess a tank builder could prefab the bottom
        > including the
        > rocker, and the sides would bend around temp' frames
        > and tabs welded
        > to the bottom. I would be inclined to do decks and
        > much of the
        > interior in wood, but could also be talked out of it
        > for more steel.
        >
        > Don Schultz
        >
        >




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      • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
        I think you covered the steel pritty well as far as welding in thinner steel proper sized and type of rod gives a stronger weld and less disrortion. MIG can
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
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          I think you covered the steel pritty well as far as welding in
          thinner steel proper sized and type of rod gives a stronger weld and
          less disrortion. MIG can have poor penatration and Inershield gets
          slag when starting and stopping that can cause pinholes. CNC is great
          but you need the specs on disc with a format that the CNC can use. It
          can be big bucks if they have to set up the cutting specs. They are
          more versatal now and shops can give help on what they need. Atkins
          has a 28' sternwheeler that is 8 and 10 gage steel

          Jon

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ok 1/4 inch steel plate is 10.20 Lbs per Sq Ft
          > 3/16 inch steel plate is 7.65 Lbs per Sq Ft
          > 7 Ga steel sheet is 7.5 Lbs per Sq Ft
          > 8 Ga .164 steel sheet is 6.875 Lbs per Sq Ft
          >
          > I have seen 65 x 25 x 5 foot draft powerbarges built
          > out of 3/16 steel plate the only place they were
          > useing heaver was in the bow where you were likely to
          > bump the beach and in the prop tunnles and they were
          > 1/4.
          >
          > I can see the 1/4 inch on the hull bottom but not for
          > the hull sides. With the price of a good wire feeder
          > under 2,ooo dollars US. along with some of the new
          > welding wire you could have a nice hull in short
          > order.
          >
          > If you make paper patterns of your hull sheeting the
          > steel supplyer will cut the sheeting at a fair cost.
          > And then is they are setup with a CNC cutting system
          > the computer can nest everything so that is little
          > wast.
          >
          > Krissie
          >
          > >
          > > Assuming 1/4" hull and 1/8" topsides the shell dead
          > > weight is 2.7 Ton.
          > > After you add bulkheads and interior fittout,
          > > probably 3.7 Ton.
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
          By sand blasting,painting and then having the hull spray foamed there is no air circulation agenst the steel and no condensation eliminating the things that
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
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            By sand blasting,painting and then having the hull spray foamed
            there is no air circulation agenst the steel and no condensation
            eliminating the things that cause rust to form. Homebuilder sheet
            foam will not seel the air flow out well enough. For a lot of good
            info on steel boat building and scantling use check out:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/

            Jon


            > > I can speak from experience. Un-insulated metal
            > > interior surfaces of the
            > > skin will sweat when they have water on one side
            > > that is cooler than the dew
            > > point of the humid air on the other. This is not a
            > > serious problem in the
            > > engine room of a merchant ship, but could be
            > > troublesome on a small boat
            > > where the living spaces extend below the water line.
            > > Another reason to
            > > consider insulating the skin of the hull is that it
            > > greatly reduces the
            > > heating/cooling load.
            > >
            > > V/R
            > > Chris
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • donschultz8275
            ... I wouldn t assume that it is only for bigger boats. PCB did that single hand world cruiser, Colonel something that is steel. Not much bigger than a
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 2, 2007
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              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
              >
              > So I take it the sharpie must be larger than a AS29 to really be
              > practical in steel. Not necessarily AS39 big but maybe a AS34 or so.


              I wouldn't assume that it is only for bigger boats. PCB did that
              single hand world cruiser, Colonel something that is steel. Not much
              bigger than a Micro.
            • Christopher C. Wetherill
              The first boat My dad bought was a TerraMarine. It was a 30 foot flat-bottom houseboat that could convert to a trailer. It consisted of a steel barge with an
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 2, 2007
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                The first boat My dad bought was a TerraMarine. It was a 30 foot
                flat-bottom houseboat that could convert to a trailer. It consisted of a
                steel barge with an aluminum house. It drew about 6 inches. I would be
                guessing at the thickness of the plate, but I do know a corrosion allowance
                is necessary.

                The previous owner left it tied to a dock and used it for a guest house.
                Unfortunately, he left the shoreside power hooked up with the wrong polarity
                for several years and electrolytically corroded the hull. Dad had to glass
                it inside and out to stop the leaks

                Another point of reference is Huckleberry Finn, a 50 foot Atkins houseboat
                done for Motorboating sometime before 1953. This boat has 11/64 bottom
                plate and 9/64 topside plate on 2x2x1/8 angle framing at 15 inch intervals
                with 3 longitudinal 4x7.55 I stringers, 1/4x12 keel plates on top and bottom
                of the framing, 3/16 bow and stern and 4 watertight bulkheads of 1/8 plate
                with 1.25x1.25x1/8 angle stiffeners on about 18 inch spacing.
                Unfortunately, displacement is not given. Gross dimensions are 50' LOA, 44'
                LWL, 18' B, 1'-4" D.

                The point is that, with competent design, a boat can be built of steel in
                any size. Since framing and stiffeners are easy to attach, weight is not as
                difficult a problem as one might think. Cost may be a different problem.

                V/R
                Chris

                -----Original Message-----
                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                donschultz8275
                Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:15 AM
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [bolger] Re: Steel ASharpie: speculation on plate thicknesses?


                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
                >
                > So I take it the sharpie must be larger than a AS29 to really be
                > practical in steel. Not necessarily AS39 big but maybe a AS34 or so.


                I wouldn't assume that it is only for bigger boats. PCB did that
                single hand world cruiser, Colonel something that is steel. Not much
                bigger than a Micro.
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