Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Steel ASharpie: speculation on plate thicknesses?

Expand Messages
  • goadarama
    Given PBolgers 45 Weston Martyr, with 1/2 bottom plate, and a 6-9 beam, what do ya ll think the AS 29 and AS39 bottoms would have to be? We are selling our
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 31, 2007
      Given PBolgers 45' Weston Martyr, with 1/2" bottom plate, and a 6-9
      beam, what do ya'll think the AS 29 and AS39 bottoms would have to be?
      We are selling our plastic sailboat and want to weld up a stout steel
      sharpie for gunkholing. I see no reason the ASharpies couldn't be
      welded up of steel. The Weston martyr is just too narrow. We've seen
      the Lions Paw in person but don't like the unprotected leeboards and
      like PBolgers later refining of his sharpies to boxes. Lastly, does
      anyone know if PB designed steel versions of the ASharpies? Best wishes
      from NW Florida. Bob G. S/V "Plan A"
    • Bruce Hallman
      I recall that the latest version of AS29 is spec ed with 1 inch steel plate bolted to the exterior of the plywood bottom, in lieu of the interior lead ballast
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 31, 2007
        I recall that the latest version of AS29 is spec'ed with 1 inch steel
        plate bolted to the exterior of the plywood bottom, in lieu of the
        interior lead ballast of the original design. As substantial ballast
        is required with an AS29 to float her down on her waterline, probably
        PCB would make the bottom much thicker in steel than required for
        simple strength.
      • James Hagan
        ... Bruce, That s a 1/2 inch plate on the AS29 mod. It d be great but a challenging retrofit IMHO. JimH
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 31, 2007
          On Jan 31, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

          > I recall that the latest version of AS29 is spec'ed with 1 inch steel
          > plate bolted to the exterior of the plywood bottom, in lieu of the
          Bruce, That's a 1/2 inch plate on the AS29 mod. It'd be great but a
          challenging retrofit IMHO.

          JimH
        • Bruce Hallman
          ... Correct. Steel approximately 8 x 12 x 1/2 weighing 2,000 lbs.
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 31, 2007
            > Bruce, That's a 1/2 inch plate on the AS29 mod.

            Correct. Steel approximately 8' x 12' x 1/2" weighing 2,000 lbs.
          • Howard Stephenson
            Based on the information from Bruce about the 1/2 steel plate used for ballast, my back-of-the-envelope calculation for the weight of an AS29 hull and deck
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 31, 2007
              Based on the information from Bruce about the 1/2" steel plate used
              for ballast, my back-of-the-envelope calculation for the weight of an
              AS29 hull and deck made from 1/8" steel (the thinnest generally
              thought to be practical), is 5000 lb, including a 20% allowance of the
              skin's weight for bulkeads, frames and gussets. Add in ballast at 2000
              lb, and you end up with 7000 lb. Its design displacement is 7300 lb.
              My guess is the 20% allowance is too small, given the boxy shape that
              would need a lot of support to prevent oilcanning.

              So the hull would need to be re-drawn to provide a lot more
              displacement.

              Howard

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
              >
              > Given PBolgers 45' Weston Martyr, with 1/2" bottom plate, and a 6-9
              > beam, what do ya'll think the AS 29 and AS39 bottoms would have to
              be?
              > We are selling our plastic sailboat and want to weld up a stout
              steel
              > sharpie for gunkholing. I see no reason the ASharpies couldn't be
              > welded up of steel. The Weston martyr is just too narrow. We've seen
              > the Lions Paw in person but don't like the unprotected leeboards and
              > like PBolgers later refining of his sharpies to boxes. Lastly, does
              > anyone know if PB designed steel versions of the ASharpies? Best
              wishes
              > from NW Florida. Bob G. S/V "Plan A"
              >
            • donschultz8275
              ... 9 ... I would buy AS 29 plans and Lions Paw plans. The AS 29 plans would provide the panel expansions and other dimensional details. LP will provide the
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 31, 2007
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Given PBolgers 45' Weston Martyr, with 1/2" bottom plate, and a 6-
                9
                > > beam, what do ya'll think the AS 29 and AS39 bottoms would have to
                > be?

                I would buy AS 29 plans and Lions Paw plans. The AS 29 plans would
                provide the panel expansions and other dimensional details. LP will
                provide the scantlings and tell you about how to do it in steel. I
                would guess a tank builder could prefab the bottom including the
                rocker, and the sides would bend around temp' frames and tabs welded
                to the bottom. I would be inclined to do decks and much of the
                interior in wood, but could also be talked out of it for more steel.

                Don Schultz
              • graeme19121984
                ... 9 ... That s a funny coincidence. Today, laid back under the brilliant light of the endodontist s theatre lamp I happenned to settle on Weston Martyr as
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 31, 2007
                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
                  > Given PBolgers 45' Weston Martyr, with 1/2" bottom plate, and a 6-
                  9
                  > beam, Bob G. S/V "Plan A"


                  That's a funny coincidence. Today, laid back under the brilliant
                  light of the endodontist's theatre lamp I happenned to settle on
                  Weston Martyr as something else, other than what was happening in my
                  mouth, to think about. (Then again, the chances are that I would
                  have had some boat or other in my mind's eye.)

                  My contemplation settled on the consideration regarding Weston
                  Martyr of insulation. Without looking up the PCB&F article I recall
                  that there was some concern about the liveability, condensation, and
                  insulation problems inside the steel box in very cold northern
                  waters.


                  I wondered if insulation would be needed at all if the cruising
                  grounds were limited to lower latitudes with warm (fairly?) waters.
                  I recalled the large steel Sir Joseph Banks intended for the warmer
                  side of the South Pacific. SJB was able to be nosed onto an island
                  beach to facilitate loading/unloading. The advantages of steel and a
                  heavy steel bottom in settling on suspect moorings, in bumping the
                  odd coral bomby, in easy repair anywhere, and even in fending off
                  the increasing amount of drifting seatainers are obvious. Also once
                  the skills of welding and cutting are developed such square geometry
                  should be an easy build, if the neighbours don't mind the noise.

                  Two questions. Would there be a problem in warmer waters if the
                  insulation were left out? What is the water temperature below which
                  the problems that PB&F mentioned are encountered? (Mid East Coast
                  Australia - off here winter water temp is around 16 degrees C I
                  think.)

                  Graeme
                • Christopher C. Wetherill
                  All it takes is for the water temperature to be below the dew point on a particular day. ... From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
                    All it takes is for the water temperature to be below the dew point on a
                    particular day.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                    graeme19121984
                    Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:24 AM
                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [bolger] Re: Steel ASharpie: speculation on plate thicknesses?


                    Two questions. Would there be a problem in warmer waters if the
                    insulation were left out? What is the water temperature below which
                    the problems that PB&F mentioned are encountered? (Mid East Coast
                    Australia - off here winter water temp is around 16 degrees C I
                    think.)
                  • goadarama
                    So I take it the sharpie must be larger than a AS29 to really be practical in steel. Not necessarily AS39 big but maybe a AS34 or so. Obviously it works at 45
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
                      So I take it the sharpie must be larger than a AS29 to really be
                      practical in steel. Not necessarily AS39 big but maybe a AS34 or so.
                      Obviously it works at 45 feet. In the article re the modifications
                      to the AS39 PB mentions there is tremendous latitude in building to
                      stouter scantlings at that size. I'll figure it out. Thanks for the
                      great info and speculations.

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Given PBolgers 45' Weston Martyr, with 1/2" bottom plate, and
                      a 6-
                      > 9
                      > > > beam, what do ya'll think the AS 29 and AS39 bottoms would
                      have to
                      > > be?
                      >
                      > I would buy AS 29 plans and Lions Paw plans. The AS 29 plans
                      would
                      > provide the panel expansions and other dimensional details. LP
                      will
                      > provide the scantlings and tell you about how to do it in steel.
                      I
                      > would guess a tank builder could prefab the bottom including the
                      > rocker, and the sides would bend around temp' frames and tabs
                      welded
                      > to the bottom. I would be inclined to do decks and much of the
                      > interior in wood, but could also be talked out of it for more
                      steel.
                      >
                      > Don Schultz
                      >
                    • Bruce Hallman
                      ... My hunch is that it would be more efficient to maker her wider and deeper, not longer, to achieve the increase in buoyancy that you seek. (Though wider
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
                        On 2/1/07, goadarama <goadarama@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > So I take it the sharpie must be larger than a AS29 to really be
                        > practical in steel. Not necessarily AS39 big but maybe a AS34 or so.

                        My hunch is that it would be more efficient to maker her wider and
                        deeper, not longer, to achieve the increase in buoyancy that you seek.
                        (Though wider means loss of trailerablity, move interior volume, and
                        she would no longer be an AS29.)

                        You might consider a Superbrick. <grin>.

                        FWIW, pasted below are the hydrostatics of a steel AS29

                        Assuming 1/4" hull and 1/8" topsides the shell dead weight is 2.7 Ton.
                        After you add bulkheads and interior fittout, probably 3.7 Ton.

                        But the design waterline, as I see it, allows for only 3.6 Ton.

                        Project : Advanced Sharpie AS29
                        Designer : Phil Bolger
                        Created by : BruceHallman
                        Filename : C:\Documents and
                        Settings\BruceH.TUTOR536\Desktop\FS\FreeShip\AS29.fbm

                        Design length : 29.500 [ft]
                        Length over all : 29.438 [ft]
                        Design beam : 8.000 [ft]
                        Beam over all : 8.556 [ft]
                        Design draft : 1.250 [ft]
                        Midship location : 14.750 [ft]
                        Water density : 63.989 [lbs/ft3]
                        Appendage coefficient : 1.0000
                        Volume properties:
                        Displaced volume : 125.27 [ft3]
                        Displacement : 3.579 [tons]
                        Total length of submerged body : 21.981 [ft]
                        Total beam of submerged body : 8.556 [ft]
                        Block coefficient : 0.5329
                        Prismatic coefficient : 0.5873
                        Vert. prismatic coefficient : 0.6262
                        Wetted surface area : 194.73 [ft2]
                        Longitudinal center of buoyancy : 14.074 [ft]
                        Longitudinal center of buoyancy : -3.076 [%]
                        Vertical center of buoyancy : 0.784 [ft]
                        Midship properties:
                        Midship section area : 9.704 [ft2]
                        Midship coefficient : 0.9074
                        Waterplane properties:
                        Length on waterline : 21.981 [ft]
                        Beam on waterline : 8.530 [ft]
                        Waterplane area : 160.03 [ft2]
                        Waterplane coefficient : 0.8509
                        Waterplane center of floatation : 14.016 [ft]
                        Entrance angle : -89.299 [degr.]
                        Transverse moment of inertia : 768.30 [ft4]
                        Longitudinal moment of inertia : 5561.4 [ft4]
                        Initial stability:
                        Transverse metacentric height : 6.917 [ft]
                        Longitudinal metacentric height : 45.179 [ft]
                        Lateral plane:
                        Lateral area : 17.432 [ft2]
                        Longitudinal center of effort : 14.354 [ft]
                        Vertical center of effort : 0.762 [ft]




                        The following layer properties are calculated for both sides of the ship:
                        | Layer | Area | Thickness | Weight | COG X |
                        COG Y | COG Z |
                        | | [ft2] | | [tons] | [ft] |
                        [ft] | [ft] |
                        |-------------------------|--------|-----------|----------|---------|---------|---------|
                        | hull | 484.56 | 0.250 | 2.208 | 14.339 |
                        0.000 | 2.083 |
                        | deck | 226.57 | 0.125 | 0.516 | 14.157 |
                        0.000 | 5.304 |
                        |-------------------------|--------|-----------|----------|---------|---------|---------|
                        Total 711.13 2.725 14.304
                        0.000 2.693


                        Sectional areas:

                        | Location | Area |
                        | [ft] | [ft2] |
                        |-----------+----------|
                        | 2.000 | 0.000 |
                        | 4.000 | 0.408 |
                        | 6.000 | 3.112 |
                        | 8.000 | 5.564 |
                        | 10.000 | 8.066 |
                        | 12.000 | 9.189 |
                        | 14.000 | 10.182 |
                        | 16.000 | 8.899 |
                        | 18.000 | 7.625 |
                        | 20.000 | 5.311 |
                        | 22.000 | 3.251 |
                        | 24.000 | 1.199 |
                        | 26.000 | 0.000 |
                        |-----------+----------|
                      • ANDREW AIREY
                        Hi All I hope the group doesn t impose the same penalties for apostasy that the muslims would like to,but,although I like the idea of a steel Bolger box,there
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
                          Hi All

                          I hope the group doesn't impose the same penalties for
                          apostasy that the muslims would like to,but,although I
                          like the idea of a steel Bolger box,there are some
                          alternatives.
                          1 Waterwitch
                          This is the Maurice Griffith's 'Eventide' big sister -
                          30' or 35' long.Plans are available for a steel
                          version and second hand examples come up
                          occasionally.If you don't like leeboards the mark1 is
                          the one to look for.The mark2 only draws 2ft but that
                          has leeboards.There is some antagonism between the
                          Eventide owners association and the Eventide owners
                          group.EOG is much more active but the EOA has the
                          plans for the steel versions - cost$200-250
                          2.Wylo 2
                          32ft or 35ft gaff orjunk rig.draft about 3ft3in.Wooden
                          upperworks on the 32ft which might be the way to keep
                          the weight down on a steel bolger box.Several
                          circumnavigations to it's credit
                          cheers
                          Andy Airey

                          Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                        • ANDREW AIREY
                          I noted the concern about insulation in the article but wonder if it was misplaced.Always remember that WM was designed basically as a narrow canal boat with
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
                            I noted the concern about insulation in the article
                            but wonder if it was misplaced.Always remember that WM
                            was designed basically as a narrow canal boat with
                            enough sailing capability to get it across the North
                            Sea or English Channel to explore the European rivers
                            and canals - its why I was attracted to it until I
                            discovered Dutch sailing barges.There are literally
                            thousands of steel narrowboats on the English canal
                            system - more now than when the canals were a truly
                            commercial highway a hundred years or more ago - and a
                            great many are lived on all year round.Two of my
                            friends lived on similar boats for years.Bit of
                            fibreglass,wood panelling and a good pot stove.Even
                            now the Chinese have pushed steel prices up I reckon
                            that you could get the hull built commercially in the
                            UK for around the £10k mark.There must be 5
                            boatbuilders within a 15 mile radius of Worksop and
                            thats just off the top of my head without
                            researching.I'd be more worried about sailing ability,
                            getting round the Recreational Craft Directive,and
                            getting some insurance on it,which is a point that
                            I've not seen discussed on this forum - how are PCB's
                            designs regarded by the insurance industry.Too many
                            people seem to be wanting you to have 3rd party
                            insurance these days.I would think that WM with a
                            breeze behind it would go straight through a plastic
                            noddy boat without even slowing down much
                            cheers
                            Andy Airey
                            Ps Must do some research on sailing 'Cuckoos'- our
                            local canal craft(72ft long)and same beam as WM,which
                            occasionally carried sils on the Trent

                            Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                          • Christopher C. Wetherill
                            I can speak from experience. Un-insulated metal interior surfaces of the skin will sweat when they have water on one side that is cooler than the dew point of
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
                              I can speak from experience. Un-insulated metal interior surfaces of the
                              skin will sweat when they have water on one side that is cooler than the dew
                              point of the humid air on the other. This is not a serious problem in the
                              engine room of a merchant ship, but could be troublesome on a small boat
                              where the living spaces extend below the water line. Another reason to
                              consider insulating the skin of the hull is that it greatly reduces the
                              heating/cooling load.

                              V/R
                              Chris

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                              ANDREW AIREY
                              Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:37 PM
                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [bolger] Re: Steel ASharpie: speculation on plate thicknesses?


                              I noted the concern about insulation in the article
                              but wonder if it was misplaced.
                            • Kristine Bennett
                              Ok 1/4 inch steel plate is 10.20 Lbs per Sq Ft 3/16 inch steel plate is 7.65 Lbs per Sq Ft 7 Ga steel sheet is 7.5 Lbs per Sq Ft 8 Ga .164 steel sheet
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
                                Ok 1/4 inch steel plate is 10.20 Lbs per Sq Ft
                                3/16 inch steel plate is 7.65 Lbs per Sq Ft
                                7 Ga steel sheet is 7.5 Lbs per Sq Ft
                                8 Ga .164 steel sheet is 6.875 Lbs per Sq Ft

                                I have seen 65 x 25 x 5 foot draft powerbarges built
                                out of 3/16 steel plate the only place they were
                                useing heaver was in the bow where you were likely to
                                bump the beach and in the prop tunnles and they were
                                1/4.

                                I can see the 1/4 inch on the hull bottom but not for
                                the hull sides. With the price of a good wire feeder
                                under 2,ooo dollars US. along with some of the new
                                welding wire you could have a nice hull in short
                                order.

                                If you make paper patterns of your hull sheeting the
                                steel supplyer will cut the sheeting at a fair cost.
                                And then is they are setup with a CNC cutting system
                                the computer can nest everything so that is little
                                wast.

                                Krissie

                                >
                                > Assuming 1/4" hull and 1/8" topsides the shell dead
                                > weight is 2.7 Ton.
                                > After you add bulkheads and interior fittout,
                                > probably 3.7 Ton.
                                >




                                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                                Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
                              • Kristine Bennett
                                There is also one other MAJOR thing insulating the hull does as well...it helps to stop the drumming of the hull and that can make for a sleepless night. Sound
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
                                  There is also one other MAJOR thing insulating the
                                  hull does as well...it helps to stop the drumming of
                                  the hull and that can make for a sleepless night.

                                  Sound does travle through steel very well below
                                  waterline.

                                  Kristine

                                  > I can speak from experience. Un-insulated metal
                                  > interior surfaces of the
                                  > skin will sweat when they have water on one side
                                  > that is cooler than the dew
                                  > point of the humid air on the other. This is not a
                                  > serious problem in the
                                  > engine room of a merchant ship, but could be
                                  > troublesome on a small boat
                                  > where the living spaces extend below the water line.
                                  > Another reason to
                                  > consider insulating the skin of the hull is that it
                                  > greatly reduces the
                                  > heating/cooling load.
                                  >
                                  > V/R
                                  > Chris




                                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                  Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                                  Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
                                  http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
                                • Kristine Bennett
                                  Hey Don in all the years I ve been welding I have yet to see a rod or wire for welding wood to steel.... Let s face it when you add wood decks and cabins to a
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
                                    Hey Don in all the years I've been welding I have yet
                                    to see a rod or wire for welding wood to steel....
                                    Let's face it when you add wood decks and cabins to a
                                    steel boat you have the best of both world....Rot and
                                    Rust.

                                    Dave Gerr does a good job of telling you how to work
                                    out your scantling for a steel boat in The Nature of
                                    Boats. I have also see a couple of other books that
                                    just talk about steel boat building.

                                    Blessings Krissie
                                    >
                                    > I would buy AS 29 plans and Lions Paw plans. The AS
                                    > 29 plans would
                                    > provide the panel expansions and other dimensional
                                    > details. LP will
                                    > provide the scantlings and tell you about how to do
                                    > it in steel. I
                                    > would guess a tank builder could prefab the bottom
                                    > including the
                                    > rocker, and the sides would bend around temp' frames
                                    > and tabs welded
                                    > to the bottom. I would be inclined to do decks and
                                    > much of the
                                    > interior in wood, but could also be talked out of it
                                    > for more steel.
                                    >
                                    > Don Schultz
                                    >
                                    >




                                    ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                    Bored stiff? Loosen up...
                                    Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
                                    http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
                                  • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                    I think you covered the steel pritty well as far as welding in thinner steel proper sized and type of rod gives a stronger weld and less disrortion. MIG can
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
                                      I think you covered the steel pritty well as far as welding in
                                      thinner steel proper sized and type of rod gives a stronger weld and
                                      less disrortion. MIG can have poor penatration and Inershield gets
                                      slag when starting and stopping that can cause pinholes. CNC is great
                                      but you need the specs on disc with a format that the CNC can use. It
                                      can be big bucks if they have to set up the cutting specs. They are
                                      more versatal now and shops can give help on what they need. Atkins
                                      has a 28' sternwheeler that is 8 and 10 gage steel

                                      Jon

                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Ok 1/4 inch steel plate is 10.20 Lbs per Sq Ft
                                      > 3/16 inch steel plate is 7.65 Lbs per Sq Ft
                                      > 7 Ga steel sheet is 7.5 Lbs per Sq Ft
                                      > 8 Ga .164 steel sheet is 6.875 Lbs per Sq Ft
                                      >
                                      > I have seen 65 x 25 x 5 foot draft powerbarges built
                                      > out of 3/16 steel plate the only place they were
                                      > useing heaver was in the bow where you were likely to
                                      > bump the beach and in the prop tunnles and they were
                                      > 1/4.
                                      >
                                      > I can see the 1/4 inch on the hull bottom but not for
                                      > the hull sides. With the price of a good wire feeder
                                      > under 2,ooo dollars US. along with some of the new
                                      > welding wire you could have a nice hull in short
                                      > order.
                                      >
                                      > If you make paper patterns of your hull sheeting the
                                      > steel supplyer will cut the sheeting at a fair cost.
                                      > And then is they are setup with a CNC cutting system
                                      > the computer can nest everything so that is little
                                      > wast.
                                      >
                                      > Krissie
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > Assuming 1/4" hull and 1/8" topsides the shell dead
                                      > > weight is 2.7 Ton.
                                      > > After you add bulkheads and interior fittout,
                                      > > probably 3.7 Ton.
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      ______________________________________________________________________
                                      ______________
                                      > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                                      > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                      > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
                                      >
                                    • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                      By sand blasting,painting and then having the hull spray foamed there is no air circulation agenst the steel and no condensation eliminating the things that
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Feb 1, 2007
                                        By sand blasting,painting and then having the hull spray foamed
                                        there is no air circulation agenst the steel and no condensation
                                        eliminating the things that cause rust to form. Homebuilder sheet
                                        foam will not seel the air flow out well enough. For a lot of good
                                        info on steel boat building and scantling use check out:
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/

                                        Jon


                                        > > I can speak from experience. Un-insulated metal
                                        > > interior surfaces of the
                                        > > skin will sweat when they have water on one side
                                        > > that is cooler than the dew
                                        > > point of the humid air on the other. This is not a
                                        > > serious problem in the
                                        > > engine room of a merchant ship, but could be
                                        > > troublesome on a small boat
                                        > > where the living spaces extend below the water line.
                                        > > Another reason to
                                        > > consider insulating the skin of the hull is that it
                                        > > greatly reduces the
                                        > > heating/cooling load.
                                        > >
                                        > > V/R
                                        > > Chris
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        ______________________________________________________________________
                                        ______________
                                        > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                                        > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
                                        > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
                                        >
                                      • donschultz8275
                                        ... I wouldn t assume that it is only for bigger boats. PCB did that single hand world cruiser, Colonel something that is steel. Not much bigger than a
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Feb 2, 2007
                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > So I take it the sharpie must be larger than a AS29 to really be
                                          > practical in steel. Not necessarily AS39 big but maybe a AS34 or so.


                                          I wouldn't assume that it is only for bigger boats. PCB did that
                                          single hand world cruiser, Colonel something that is steel. Not much
                                          bigger than a Micro.
                                        • Christopher C. Wetherill
                                          The first boat My dad bought was a TerraMarine. It was a 30 foot flat-bottom houseboat that could convert to a trailer. It consisted of a steel barge with an
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Feb 2, 2007
                                            The first boat My dad bought was a TerraMarine. It was a 30 foot
                                            flat-bottom houseboat that could convert to a trailer. It consisted of a
                                            steel barge with an aluminum house. It drew about 6 inches. I would be
                                            guessing at the thickness of the plate, but I do know a corrosion allowance
                                            is necessary.

                                            The previous owner left it tied to a dock and used it for a guest house.
                                            Unfortunately, he left the shoreside power hooked up with the wrong polarity
                                            for several years and electrolytically corroded the hull. Dad had to glass
                                            it inside and out to stop the leaks

                                            Another point of reference is Huckleberry Finn, a 50 foot Atkins houseboat
                                            done for Motorboating sometime before 1953. This boat has 11/64 bottom
                                            plate and 9/64 topside plate on 2x2x1/8 angle framing at 15 inch intervals
                                            with 3 longitudinal 4x7.55 I stringers, 1/4x12 keel plates on top and bottom
                                            of the framing, 3/16 bow and stern and 4 watertight bulkheads of 1/8 plate
                                            with 1.25x1.25x1/8 angle stiffeners on about 18 inch spacing.
                                            Unfortunately, displacement is not given. Gross dimensions are 50' LOA, 44'
                                            LWL, 18' B, 1'-4" D.

                                            The point is that, with competent design, a boat can be built of steel in
                                            any size. Since framing and stiffeners are easy to attach, weight is not as
                                            difficult a problem as one might think. Cost may be a different problem.

                                            V/R
                                            Chris

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                                            donschultz8275
                                            Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:15 AM
                                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [bolger] Re: Steel ASharpie: speculation on plate thicknesses?


                                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > So I take it the sharpie must be larger than a AS29 to really be
                                            > practical in steel. Not necessarily AS39 big but maybe a AS34 or so.


                                            I wouldn't assume that it is only for bigger boats. PCB did that
                                            single hand world cruiser, Colonel something that is steel. Not much
                                            bigger than a Micro.
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.