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Re: [bolger] Re: Bolger commisions

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  • Dominic tyson
    Yes we paid around $800 Australian dollars for the design to be started with at least the same to be paid on completion. I am really not too concerned about
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 3, 2006
      Yes we paid around $800 Australian dollars for the design to be started with at least the same to be paid on completion. I am really not too concerned about it as the planking on the Lobster Boat is only days away from completion but there is still plenty of building to do and money to spend before it will be finished!!

      dbaldnz <oink@...> wrote: --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Dominic tyson <dominictyson@...> wrote:
      >
      > I wonder if anyone has given up on waiting for commision results and
      has asked for a refund? It is now at least three years since the
      "Snow Leopard" design was instigated and with money spent there is
      still no contact on progress. Lucky we decided to concentrate on
      building the "Bunny R" Lobster Boat!!
      Do you mean you have to pay money in advance!
      Wish I could get onto that,
      Don






      ---------------------------------
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • pvanderwaart
      Y all are remarkably patient. I know guys who would be asking for an update every month. I don t think that a quarterly progress report is too much to ask.
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 3, 2006
        Y'all are remarkably patient. I know guys who would be asking for an
        update every month. I don't think that a quarterly progress report is
        too much to ask.

        PCB&F is very unbusinesslike, but it is a business, none-the-less, and
        you should be able to treat it like one.
      • derbyrm
        Having been a key player in many design projects, I have to chuckle at the phrases 95% complete and 90% complete. Those were common in our progress
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 3, 2006
          Having been a key player in many design projects, I have to chuckle at the phrases "95% complete" and "90% complete." Those were common in our progress reports and were pulled out of thin air based on how fast we were spending the available funds.

          When doing a new design from scratch, one doesn't have any idea what the total design effort is going to be, and I can cite many examples of cases where most of the hardware and software was designed in a straightforward fashion and one seemingly trivial area demanded hundreds of man-hours.

          It would really have helped our subsequent proposal efforts if we'd had a summary generated after a design was complete showing where the effort was expended and how much the design cost when delivered, but that never happened. Marketing didn't want such evidence laying around to hamper their future efforts.

          Roger
          derbyrm@...
          http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Susan Davis
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 12:34 AM
          Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger commisions


          Jon Kolb:
          > One of their last communications to us, perhaps 18-24 months ago,
          > indicated that I60 was 95% complete, and Shine 90%, with no
          > estimate of progress given for our Auriga (although they had done
          > some work on it).

          When I last heard from Phil and Suzanne 18-24 months ago, they
          indicated that there was still a lot of work remaining on the I60, and
          that it was a very hard problem. I'm still not in a position to begin
          work on mine yet in any event, so the delay isn't such a big deal, but
          I know that David was much more impatient.

          --
          Susan Davis <futabachan@...>





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nels
          ... update the Light Schooner to make it a better camp cruiser, so it wouldn t surprise me to see that one get ahead of the other work as well. In fact, MAIB
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 8, 2006
            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
            <jon@...> wrote:
            >
            >Susanne told me that they really wanted to
            update the Light Schooner to make it a better camp cruiser, so it
            wouldn't surprise me to see that one get ahead of the other work as
            well. In fact, MAIB is starting to become a negative factor in my
            overall happiness, since whenever a new concept or update appears, it
            means more delay in our commission.

            Given the history above, who's to say that Snow Leopard or Sitka
            Explorer won't be finished next?

            Jon Kolb
            www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm

            I found this of interest. I was looking at Camper plans and noticed
            the basic hull is much the same as the LS. So was thinking that an LS
            with a forward centerboard, instead of a daggerboard, a larger
            rudder, and the other design features of Camper, like the hard mast
            strut and fold-dwon masts, applied to the LS hull would make one
            slippery fast and versatile camp cruiser. And with the Birdwatcher
            style topsides it would be self-righting as well. Was almost going to
            fax an enquiry to PCB&F but now I see it would only make things worse
            for those still waiting for plans already in the works.

            Very sad really. I wonder if Suesanne's penchant for detail slows
            down Phil's work more than his advancing years?

            Nels
          • adventures_in_astrophotography
            Hi Nels, ... My recollections are from a phone conversation with Susanne about 3-1/2 years ago. I was looking for something simple to build while they were
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 9, 2006
              Hi Nels,

              > I found this of interest. I was looking at Camper plans and noticed
              > the basic hull is much the same as the LS. So was thinking that an LS
              > with a forward centerboard, instead of a daggerboard, a larger
              > rudder, and the other design features of Camper, like the hard mast
              > strut and fold-dwon masts, applied to the LS hull would make one
              > slippery fast and versatile camp cruiser. And with the Birdwatcher
              > style topsides it would be self-righting as well. Was almost going to
              > fax an enquiry to PCB&F but now I see it would only make things worse
              > for those still waiting for plans already in the works.

              My recollections are from a phone conversation with Susanne about 3-1/2
              years ago. I was looking for something simple to build while they were
              working on our commission that would give us some experience with a two-
              master on a small scale. The LS was on obvious choice, but I couldn't
              fit the boat in my garage with the bowsprit. Phil was nice enough to
              draw the cat schooner rig one evening, which solved that problem and
              also gave the boat two identical sails, approximating a simpler version
              of Auriga's rig-to-be.

              While we were talking about this, she mentioned some eventual
              improvements to the LS that were to address a scenario where a couple
              of young campers would sail the boat during the day and camp on board
              at night. These improvements included a centerboard, twin shallow
              fixed rudders with endplates, and moving the outboard mount to the
              transom between the rudders. In addition, the boat was to be given
              wide side decks with the cockpits boxed in and have several watertight
              hatches for dry stowage of camping gear. I don't recall any changes to
              the rig being mentioned, but I don't see how two youngsters could sail
              that boat without it being reefed down all the time. Susanne did not
              mention a BW house.

              I wound up implementing the wide side decks and cockpit construction
              based on my own interpretation of how this might look, and we're happy
              with it (except that eight Bomar watertight hatches are quite expensive
              and I haven't put them in yet in four years since). The wide side
              decks are great for sitting and sailing, and if she ever goes over, I
              don't see how she could ship any water in the cockpits. The twin
              rudder idea was very appealing, but I wasn't about to try that on my
              own. Moving the motor to the transom is also very appealing, and I
              think that would be a big improvement over the well and plug design.

              Having just spent three weekends repairing the daggerboard ("hey, this
              water looks like it's getting shallow"...wham!), I'd be in favor of a
              pivoting centerboard as well. I have no idea if PB&F have pursued any
              of these ideas since then, or if they still plan to.

              Jon Kolb
              www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
            • oarmandt
              This got done out of its turn and was taken a good deal further (to study plan instead of just a cartoon ) than I meant to, because it jelled until I got
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 10, 2006
                "This got done out of its turn and was taken a good deal further (to study
                plan instead of just a 'cartoon') than I meant to, because it jelled
                until I got hooked. I tried this and that--and one suddenly clicked."

                That is apparently a quote from Mr. Bolger regarding the Micro, from
                Elrow LaRowe's flyer. (See
                http://www.boatdesign.com/micro/letters/flyer.htm ) Seems he has
                some history of working on what inspires him at the time rather than
                the next commission in line. If the boss lets me be, I do the same
                myself. If your design is slow in coming, it is not yet an inspired
                Bolger classic.

                Doug


                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
                > <jon@> wrote:
                > >
                > >Susanne told me that they really wanted to
                > update the Light Schooner to make it a better camp cruiser, so it
                > wouldn't surprise me to see that one get ahead of the other work as
                > well. In fact, MAIB is starting to become a negative factor in my
                > overall happiness, since whenever a new concept or update appears, it
                > means more delay in our commission.
                >
                > Given the history above, who's to say that Snow Leopard or Sitka
                > Explorer won't be finished next?
                >
                > Jon Kolb
                > www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
                >
              • Bruce Hallman
                ... Thanks Doug, you describe perfectly what I think all of us love about Bolger boats, that they are often a work of inspiration.
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 11, 2006
                  > "This got done out of its turn and was taken a good deal further (to study
                  > plan instead of just a 'cartoon') than I meant to, because it jelled
                  > until I got hooked. I tried this and that--and one suddenly clicked."
                  >
                  > That is apparently a quote from Mr. Bolger regarding the Micro, from
                  > Elrow LaRowe's flyer. (See
                  > http://www.boatdesign.com/micro/letters/flyer.htm ) Seems he has
                  > some history of working on what inspires him at the time rather than
                  > the next commission in line. If the boss lets me be, I do the same
                  > myself. If your design is slow in coming, it is not yet an inspired
                  > Bolger classic.
                  >
                  > Doug

                  Thanks Doug, you describe perfectly what I think all of us love about
                  Bolger boats, that they are often a work of inspiration.
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