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Re: [bolger] Re: Outboards for Micro

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  • Mark Balogh
    Thanks Bruce, If I recall your boat you have side decks all the way back to the transom that would take some of the fore and aft mizzen load with your top bar
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 5 8:16 AM
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      Thanks Bruce,
      If I recall your boat you have side decks all the way back to the
      transom that would take some of the fore and aft mizzen load with your
      top bar omitted, is that correct? Also thanks for the shaft feedback.
      I would have thought there was a time when pitching into a short slop
      that prop on a short shaft would be sucking air.
      Mark

      On Jul 5, 2006, at 10:33 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

      > > It seems like the long shaft would be good if one is pitching but you
      > > seem to prefer the short.
      >
      > My 9.9 hp Honda 4 stroke is too large, and I just omitted the top bar
      > on the transom opening.
      >
      > Also, there is NO need for a long shaft.
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bsdbatwing
      Along the same topic. If anybody has feedback on shaft length experience for Micro outboards or any comments on reliability of a given outboard, I would be
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 5 8:19 AM
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        Along the same topic. If anybody has feedback on shaft length
        experience for Micro outboards or any comments on reliability of a
        given outboard, I would be appreciative. Thanks in advance, Mark
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... Yes, I enlarged the size of the aft deck which would take some mizzen load. Regardless, the mizzen isn t very big, so I wouldn t lose sleep worrying
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 5 8:42 AM
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          On 7/5/06, Mark Balogh <mark@...> wrote:
          > Thanks Bruce,
          > If I recall your boat you have side decks all the way back to the
          > transom that would take some of the fore and aft mizzen load with your
          > top bar omitted, is that correct?

          Yes, I enlarged the size of the 'aft deck' which would take some
          mizzen load. Regardless, the mizzen isn't very big, so I wouldn't
          lose sleep worrying about mizzen load.


          >Also thanks for the shaft feedback.
          > I would have thought there was a time when pitching into a short slop
          > that prop on a short shaft would be sucking air.
          > Mark

          Visible in this photo:
          http://community.webshots.com/photo/238506707/1238507709051159125iuLqLY

          Compare the actual waterline, to the painted waterline.

          At speed, the wake rises up six inches at the stem and stern, (and
          dips 6" at midships). To my eye, there is zero chance of 'pitching
          out' with a short shaft, in any condition.
        • derbyrm
          It s not as good as some of the drawings I ve seen for American engines, but Yamaha makes the owner s manual available on line at
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 5 8:45 AM
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            It's not as good as some of the drawings I've seen for American engines, but Yamaha makes the owner's manual available on line at http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/service/viewmanuals/viewmanuals.aspx?ls=outboard and page 20, Specifications, for the 2.5 hp unit includes the measurements.

            Roger
            derbyrm@...
            http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Mark Balogh
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 8:36 AM
            Subject: Re: [bolger] Outboards for Micro


            Buck,

            Thanks for the reply. The two Yamahas are the ones I am considering
            which is why I am polling about hp. I found measurements for the 4hp
            and it won't fit but can't find measurements for the 2hp. The dealer
            is a 2.5 hour drive so can't conveniently look in person. I am
            contemplating modifications and would be happy to see what you have
            done. I am thinking of either opening the top of the motor slot and
            reinforcing the transom for the mizzen forces without the continuous
            cap. The other option is to build up the top of the transom into an
            arch with a laminated cap. Any input of successful solutions is
            welcome. My email is below your post.
            Thanks again.
            Mark

            On Jul 5, 2006, at 1:49 AM, 9buck crowley wrote:

            > Mark
            >
            > I use a five horse honda four stroke. A great motor and no it doesnt
            > fit in
            > the standard opening. I could send you a picture of my solution which
            > has
            > worked out very well. I think it's a little more power than my boat
            > needs.
            > Mostly it runs the boat at close to hull speed at just above idle.
            > We're I
            > to do it again I would go for the 4hp Yamaha four stroke or even the
            > 2.5hp
            > to save weight in the end of the boat and to run the motor at a more
            > optimal
            > rpm.
            >
            > Buck
            >
            > >From: "bsdbatwing" <mark@...>
            > >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            > >To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            > >Subject: [bolger] Outboards for Micro
            > >Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:49:07 -0000
            > >
            > >Hello Micro sailors,
            > >What size and brand of outboard do you use on your Micro? Does it fit
            > >in the standard transom opening?
            > >Thanks,
            > >Mark
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nels
            ... your ... feedback. ... slop ... I would suggest that a long shaft may expose the bottom of the prop to below the protective shield of the keel? Depending
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 5 10:40 AM
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              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Balogh <mark@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks Bruce,
              > If I recall your boat you have side decks all the way back to the
              > transom that would take some of the fore and aft mizzen load with
              your
              > top bar omitted, is that correct? Also thanks for the shaft
              feedback.
              > I would have thought there was a time when pitching into a short
              slop
              > that prop on a short shaft would be sucking air.
              > Mark
              >
              I would suggest that a long shaft may expose the bottom of the prop
              to below the protective shield of the keel? Depending of course
              on "how long" the shaft actually is. On Lestat, Peter installed a
              bronze traveller that was raised high enough to give more room for
              the motor head to clear the opening when raised. It can be just
              barely seen in the photo at Bolger 3 in the Lestat folder.

              http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/photos/view/624d?b=31

              http://tinyurl.com/nt966

              The B&S motors might be another option - eith 4-stroke or electic.

              http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?DocID=76266

              http://tinyurl.com/peb7g

              Nels
            • dnjost
              On the Micro I built (reportedly headed in tow towards Cape Cod on July 3rd) I used a 1974 Evinrude longshaft outboard. The cowl cleared the combing/traveller
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 5 3:54 PM
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                On the Micro I built (reportedly headed in tow towards Cape Cod on
                July 3rd) I used a 1974 Evinrude longshaft outboard. The cowl cleared
                the combing/traveller by a smidqeon. Worked best if tilted slightly
                left or right. The prop was just at the base of the keel. It looked
                to be about perfect at 20" below the transom top.

                This was a wonderful little boat. I am getting up the nerve to start
                making the mast for Birdwatcher, but need to finish reconditioning the
                1968 Enterprise first.

                Life is good, when those are the toughest choices to make this week.

                David Jost
                "awaiting fair winds and good weather in New England"
              • dnjost
                FYI - Holt/Allen makes an aluminum traveller that should do the trick quite nicely as well. I got mine at Annapolis Performance Sailing products. It is
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 5 3:59 PM
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                  FYI -

                  Holt/Allen makes an aluminum traveller that should do the trick
                  quite nicely as well. I got mine at Annapolis Performance Sailing
                  products. It is plenty strong as we frequently lift our dinghy with
                  it (265lbs) with no failures in 40 years. Just use hardwood such as
                  mahogony, teak, or oak across the top faces of your cut out transom
                  to hold the screws 1.5" should be sufficient.

                  David Jost


                  Peter installed a
                  > bronze traveller that was raised high enough to give more room for
                  > the motor head to clear the opening when raised. It can be just
                  > barely seen in the photo at Bolger 3 in the Lestat folder.
                  >
                  > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/photos/view/624d?b=31
                  >
                  > http://tinyurl.com/nt966
                  >
                  > The B&S motors might be another option - eith 4-stroke or electic.
                  >
                  > http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?DocID=76266
                  >
                  > http://tinyurl.com/peb7g
                  >
                  > Nels
                  >
                • Greg Flemming
                  Sorry for not replying earlier but only just sighted this post. As far as I am aware Matilda Jean is built to plan and the long shaft motors do not clear the
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 7 2:35 AM
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                    Sorry for not replying earlier but only just sighted this post. As
                    far as I am aware Matilda Jean is built to plan and the long shaft
                    motors do not clear the water when tilted up (if you can tilt them
                    up provided the cowling over the motor is not too big, as is the
                    case with the 4hp 4 stroke Yamaha)

                    If you look at the photo of Micro, Cricket in the files section of
                    the Bolger Overflow Group 7 in a file called Australian Micros, you
                    will see a great photo of Cricket which sports a Yamaha 5 hp motor,
                    and the transom has been modified so that the motor can clear the
                    top of the transom cut-out.

                    The Micro of Peter de Boer in Holland also sports the same modifed
                    transom (see article in Water Craft No 29 of Sept/Oct 2001) As do
                    several others, of course)

                    The point is that the motor will far enough into the water, even as
                    a short shaft, so you do not need a long shaft on Micro, I think?

                    Greg F





                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Balogh <mark@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Greg and others who have answered,
                    >
                    > Thanks for the feedback
                    > It seems like the long shaft would be good if one is pitching but
                    you
                    > seem to prefer the short. The measurements I have indicate that
                    if you
                    > can raise the engine completely it would clear the water. Could
                    you
                    > please elaborate on why you would prefer the short shaft 4hp?
                    > Mark
                    >
                    > On Jul 5, 2006, at 4:00 AM, Greg Flemming wrote:
                    >
                    > > Hello Mark
                    > >
                    > > Generally we use the 4hp 4 stroke Yamaha that the boat came
                    with, but
                    > > it does not allow the motor to tilt up out of the water
                    (standard
                    > > opening). A long shaft British Seagull Silver Century will tilt
                    up OK
                    > > but the prop will still just skim the water. a 3.5 Tohatsu 2
                    stroke
                    > > fits OK but not so good when motoring into a good wind and
                    against the
                    > > tide! 4 HP Yamaha is generally ideal (if it fitted opening and
                    was a
                    > > short shaft!)
                    > >
                    > > Greg F Micro, Matilda Jean
                    > >
                    > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bsdbatwing" <mark@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello Micro sailors,
                    > > > What size and brand of outboard do you use on your Micro?
                    Does it
                    > > fit
                    > > > in the standard transom opening?
                    > > > Thanks,
                    > > > Mark
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Mark Balogh
                    Thanks Greg and all who replied. This is the type of information I needed. If I can get by with the short shaft all the better. It is 2 lbs. lighter and 5
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 7 8:10 AM
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                      Thanks Greg and all who replied. This is the type of information I
                      needed. If I can get by with the short shaft all the better. It is 2
                      lbs. lighter and 5" smaller to handle.
                      Anybody have any reliability comments regarding the Yamaha 4 strokes?

                      Thanks
                      Mark

                      On Jul 7, 2006, at 5:35 AM, Greg Flemming wrote:

                      > Sorry for not replying earlier but only just sighted this post. As
                      > far as I am aware Matilda Jean is built to plan and the long shaft
                      > motors do not clear the water when tilted up (if you can tilt them
                      > up provided the cowling over the motor is not too big, as is the
                      > case with the 4hp 4 stroke Yamaha)
                      >
                      > If you look at the photo of Micro, Cricket in the files section of
                      > the Bolger Overflow Group 7 in a file called Australian Micros, you
                      > will see a great photo of Cricket which sports a Yamaha 5 hp motor,
                      > and the transom has been modified so that the motor can clear the
                      > top of the transom cut-out.
                      >
                      > The Micro of Peter de Boer in Holland also sports the same modifed
                      > transom (see article in Water Craft No 29 of Sept/Oct 2001) As do
                      > several others, of course)
                      >
                      > The point is that the motor will far enough into the water, even as
                      > a short shaft, so you do not need a long shaft on Micro, I think?
                      >
                      > Greg F


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Chester
                      ... strokes? ... Greg: The Esther Mae (Bolger Tennessee) is outfitted with a 25 hp four stroke Yamaha. Much larger that you will be needing, but a Yamaha none
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 7 9:47 AM
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                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Balogh <mark@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Thanks Greg and all who replied. This is the type of information I
                        > needed.
                        > Anybody have any reliability comments regarding the Yamaha 4
                        strokes?
                        >
                        > Thanks
                        > Mark
                        >

                        Greg:

                        The Esther Mae (Bolger Tennessee) is outfitted with a 25 hp four
                        stroke Yamaha. Much larger that you will be needing, but a Yamaha
                        none the less. It is a 2000 year model and when I purchased (last
                        December) it was already equipped with a hour meter / tach,
                        (discovered sh0ortlyu after purchase due to the mounting location
                        inside the aft compartment) indicating an even 100 hours. Since
                        Christamas Eve, (day of purchase) I have added another 180 hours.
                        Also replaced the spark plugs and fuel filters, now due for an oil
                        change and appears to be in need of a tune-up since the tach only
                        indicates 4200 rpm, way short of the 5000 - 6000 represented in the
                        manual. I have purchased a lower pitch prop through the local dealer
                        and it only gained 200 rpm while dropping 2 mph on top speed. In
                        this time we have logged over 1000 miles on the GPS and had nary a
                        worry about performance. It hums line a sewing machine, pushes the
                        Esther Mae at 12 mph with 2 on board with gear for overnight trips.
                        Two long runs of 40 mph one way without stopping and a several 30
                        mile runs give 10 mpg consistently. Mr Bolger expressed great
                        interest in seeing data on fuel economy at lower speeds, as they
                        should be fantastic. My local dealer has been very helpful to me
                        with prop choices, parts for the engine etc. If the need arises to
                        repower, at this point it would definitely be a Yamaha.

                        Caloosarat

                        Previously a 30 year, 2-stroke Evinrude fan (all saltwater use).
                      • Stefan Nohn
                        Hallo to all, Maybe an alternative. Elektric outboards. I ve seen them on a market. They are complet new technology. See at: http://www.torqeedo.com/ Best to
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 10 2:21 AM
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                          Hallo to all,

                          Maybe an alternative. Elektric outboards. I've seen them on a market.
                          They are complet new technology. See at:

                          http://www.torqeedo.com/

                          Best to all
                          Stefan
                        • Clyde Wisner
                          Hi Stefan, If you communicate with them, an English version would be great. Clyde
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 10 6:09 AM
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                            Hi Stefan, If you communicate with them, an English version would be
                            great. Clyde

                            Stefan Nohn wrote:

                            >Hallo to all,
                            >
                            >Maybe an alternative. Elektric outboards. I've seen them on a market.
                            >They are complet new technology. See at:
                            >
                            >http://www.torqeedo.com/
                            >
                            >Best to all
                            >Stefan
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Bolger rules!!!
                            >- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                            >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                            >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                            >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                            >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                            >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Máximo
                            ... Clyde, there is an english version http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/home.html Máximo.
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 10 6:13 AM
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                              on 7/10/06 10:09 AM, Clyde Wisner at clydewis@... wrote:

                              > Hi Stefan, If you communicate with them, an English version would be
                              > great. Clyde

                              Clyde, there is an english version
                              http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/home.html

                              Máximo.
                            • Clyde Wisner
                              Before my eyes, when I moved something off screen. Clyde ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 10 6:24 AM
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                                Before my eyes, when I moved something off screen. Clyde

                                Clyde Wisner wrote:

                                >Hi Stefan, If you communicate with them, an English version would be
                                >great. Clyde
                                >
                                >Stefan Nohn wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >>Hallo to all,
                                >>
                                >>Maybe an alternative. Elektric outboards. I've seen them on a market.
                                >>They are complet new technology. See at:
                                >>
                                >>http://www.torqeedo.com/
                                >>
                                >>Best to all
                                >>Stefan
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>Bolger rules!!!
                                >>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                >>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                                >>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                >>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                >>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                >>- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >>- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >Bolger rules!!!
                                >- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                                >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • derbyrm
                                Very interesting, but not completely new. For similar tech, see the efforts of the toy makers, some of the most creative engineers on the planet. The electric
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jul 10 6:46 AM
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                                  Very interesting, but not completely new.

                                  For similar tech, see the efforts of the toy makers, some of the most
                                  creative engineers on the planet. The electric powered radio control
                                  aircraft use the same elements as Torqeedo; e.g.
                                  http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0093p?&C=GHG&P=ML

                                  Roger
                                  derbyrm@...
                                  http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Stefan Nohn" <nohnmusik@...>
                                  To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 5:21 AM
                                  Subject: [bolger] Re: Outboards for Micro


                                  > Hallo to all,
                                  >
                                  > Maybe an alternative. Elektric outboards. I've seen them on a market.
                                  > They are complet new technology. See at:
                                  >
                                  > http://www.torqeedo.com/
                                  >
                                  > Best to all
                                  > Stefan
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Bolger rules!!!
                                  > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                  > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
                                  > horses
                                  > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                  > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                  > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
                                  > (978) 282-1349
                                  > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Mark Balogh
                                  Micro fans, About a week ago I posed a question to the list regarding short and long shaft outboards for Micro. First I want to thank everyone who took the
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jul 17 1:54 PM
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                                    Micro fans,

                                    About a week ago I posed a question to the list regarding short and
                                    long shaft outboards for Micro. First I want to thank everyone who
                                    took the time and effort to relate their experiences. Your pretty much
                                    unanimous reply had pretty much swayed me from long shaft to short. I
                                    had also sent a fax to Mr. Bolger with the same question mentioning
                                    the manufacturers measurements for the new outboard in question but
                                    was not sure I would get a reply. I got my reply today and just so
                                    everyone can be as surprised as I am Mr. Bolger's reply was "Recommend
                                    the long shaft." He also related that "Anecdotes and photos of the
                                    boat in use are appreciated." Thanks again for the input.

                                    Mark
                                  • 9buck crowley
                                    Mark, I ve run the 5 hp honda four stroke on my micro for eight years. In that time two plastic items have broke neither of which prevented normal runnnig. I
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jul 28 9:31 PM
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                                      Mark,

                                      I've run the 5 hp honda four stroke on my micro for eight years. In that
                                      time two plastic items have broke neither of which prevented normal runnnig.
                                      I also had to resort to using stainless steel shear pins as the torque of
                                      the engine would tend to break the standard pins over time My engine is a
                                      standard shaft length can't imagine why Phil suggested the long.

                                      Buck


                                      >From: Mark Balogh <mark@...>
                                      >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                      >To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                      >Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Outboards for Micro
                                      >Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:54:41 -0400
                                      >
                                      >Micro fans,
                                      >
                                      >About a week ago I posed a question to the list regarding short and
                                      >long shaft outboards for Micro. First I want to thank everyone who
                                      >took the time and effort to relate their experiences. Your pretty much
                                      >unanimous reply had pretty much swayed me from long shaft to short. I
                                      >had also sent a fax to Mr. Bolger with the same question mentioning
                                      >the manufacturers measurements for the new outboard in question but
                                      >was not sure I would get a reply. I got my reply today and just so
                                      >everyone can be as surprised as I am Mr. Bolger's reply was "Recommend
                                      >the long shaft." He also related that "Anecdotes and photos of the
                                      >boat in use are appreciated." Thanks again for the input.
                                      >
                                      >Mark
                                      >
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