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Re: [bolger] Re: Outboards for Micro

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  • Bruce Hallman
    ... My 9.9 hp Honda 4 stroke is too large, and I just omitted the top bar on the transom opening. Also, there is NO need for a long shaft.
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 5, 2006
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      > It seems like the long shaft would be good if one is pitching but you
      > seem to prefer the short.

      My 9.9 hp Honda 4 stroke is too large, and I just omitted the top bar
      on the transom opening.

      Also, there is NO need for a long shaft.
    • Mark Balogh
      Thanks Bruce, If I recall your boat you have side decks all the way back to the transom that would take some of the fore and aft mizzen load with your top bar
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 5, 2006
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        Thanks Bruce,
        If I recall your boat you have side decks all the way back to the
        transom that would take some of the fore and aft mizzen load with your
        top bar omitted, is that correct? Also thanks for the shaft feedback.
        I would have thought there was a time when pitching into a short slop
        that prop on a short shaft would be sucking air.
        Mark

        On Jul 5, 2006, at 10:33 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:

        > > It seems like the long shaft would be good if one is pitching but you
        > > seem to prefer the short.
        >
        > My 9.9 hp Honda 4 stroke is too large, and I just omitted the top bar
        > on the transom opening.
        >
        > Also, there is NO need for a long shaft.
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • bsdbatwing
        Along the same topic. If anybody has feedback on shaft length experience for Micro outboards or any comments on reliability of a given outboard, I would be
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 5, 2006
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          Along the same topic. If anybody has feedback on shaft length
          experience for Micro outboards or any comments on reliability of a
          given outboard, I would be appreciative. Thanks in advance, Mark
        • Bruce Hallman
          ... Yes, I enlarged the size of the aft deck which would take some mizzen load. Regardless, the mizzen isn t very big, so I wouldn t lose sleep worrying
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 5, 2006
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            On 7/5/06, Mark Balogh <mark@...> wrote:
            > Thanks Bruce,
            > If I recall your boat you have side decks all the way back to the
            > transom that would take some of the fore and aft mizzen load with your
            > top bar omitted, is that correct?

            Yes, I enlarged the size of the 'aft deck' which would take some
            mizzen load. Regardless, the mizzen isn't very big, so I wouldn't
            lose sleep worrying about mizzen load.


            >Also thanks for the shaft feedback.
            > I would have thought there was a time when pitching into a short slop
            > that prop on a short shaft would be sucking air.
            > Mark

            Visible in this photo:
            http://community.webshots.com/photo/238506707/1238507709051159125iuLqLY

            Compare the actual waterline, to the painted waterline.

            At speed, the wake rises up six inches at the stem and stern, (and
            dips 6" at midships). To my eye, there is zero chance of 'pitching
            out' with a short shaft, in any condition.
          • derbyrm
            It s not as good as some of the drawings I ve seen for American engines, but Yamaha makes the owner s manual available on line at
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 5, 2006
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              It's not as good as some of the drawings I've seen for American engines, but Yamaha makes the owner's manual available on line at http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/service/viewmanuals/viewmanuals.aspx?ls=outboard and page 20, Specifications, for the 2.5 hp unit includes the measurements.

              Roger
              derbyrm@...
              http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Mark Balogh
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 8:36 AM
              Subject: Re: [bolger] Outboards for Micro


              Buck,

              Thanks for the reply. The two Yamahas are the ones I am considering
              which is why I am polling about hp. I found measurements for the 4hp
              and it won't fit but can't find measurements for the 2hp. The dealer
              is a 2.5 hour drive so can't conveniently look in person. I am
              contemplating modifications and would be happy to see what you have
              done. I am thinking of either opening the top of the motor slot and
              reinforcing the transom for the mizzen forces without the continuous
              cap. The other option is to build up the top of the transom into an
              arch with a laminated cap. Any input of successful solutions is
              welcome. My email is below your post.
              Thanks again.
              Mark

              On Jul 5, 2006, at 1:49 AM, 9buck crowley wrote:

              > Mark
              >
              > I use a five horse honda four stroke. A great motor and no it doesnt
              > fit in
              > the standard opening. I could send you a picture of my solution which
              > has
              > worked out very well. I think it's a little more power than my boat
              > needs.
              > Mostly it runs the boat at close to hull speed at just above idle.
              > We're I
              > to do it again I would go for the 4hp Yamaha four stroke or even the
              > 2.5hp
              > to save weight in the end of the boat and to run the motor at a more
              > optimal
              > rpm.
              >
              > Buck
              >
              > >From: "bsdbatwing" <mark@...>
              > >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              > >To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              > >Subject: [bolger] Outboards for Micro
              > >Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:49:07 -0000
              > >
              > >Hello Micro sailors,
              > >What size and brand of outboard do you use on your Micro? Does it fit
              > >in the standard transom opening?
              > >Thanks,
              > >Mark
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nels
              ... your ... feedback. ... slop ... I would suggest that a long shaft may expose the bottom of the prop to below the protective shield of the keel? Depending
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 5, 2006
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                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Balogh <mark@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Bruce,
                > If I recall your boat you have side decks all the way back to the
                > transom that would take some of the fore and aft mizzen load with
                your
                > top bar omitted, is that correct? Also thanks for the shaft
                feedback.
                > I would have thought there was a time when pitching into a short
                slop
                > that prop on a short shaft would be sucking air.
                > Mark
                >
                I would suggest that a long shaft may expose the bottom of the prop
                to below the protective shield of the keel? Depending of course
                on "how long" the shaft actually is. On Lestat, Peter installed a
                bronze traveller that was raised high enough to give more room for
                the motor head to clear the opening when raised. It can be just
                barely seen in the photo at Bolger 3 in the Lestat folder.

                http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/photos/view/624d?b=31

                http://tinyurl.com/nt966

                The B&S motors might be another option - eith 4-stroke or electic.

                http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?DocID=76266

                http://tinyurl.com/peb7g

                Nels
              • dnjost
                On the Micro I built (reportedly headed in tow towards Cape Cod on July 3rd) I used a 1974 Evinrude longshaft outboard. The cowl cleared the combing/traveller
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 5, 2006
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                  On the Micro I built (reportedly headed in tow towards Cape Cod on
                  July 3rd) I used a 1974 Evinrude longshaft outboard. The cowl cleared
                  the combing/traveller by a smidqeon. Worked best if tilted slightly
                  left or right. The prop was just at the base of the keel. It looked
                  to be about perfect at 20" below the transom top.

                  This was a wonderful little boat. I am getting up the nerve to start
                  making the mast for Birdwatcher, but need to finish reconditioning the
                  1968 Enterprise first.

                  Life is good, when those are the toughest choices to make this week.

                  David Jost
                  "awaiting fair winds and good weather in New England"
                • dnjost
                  FYI - Holt/Allen makes an aluminum traveller that should do the trick quite nicely as well. I got mine at Annapolis Performance Sailing products. It is
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 5, 2006
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                    FYI -

                    Holt/Allen makes an aluminum traveller that should do the trick
                    quite nicely as well. I got mine at Annapolis Performance Sailing
                    products. It is plenty strong as we frequently lift our dinghy with
                    it (265lbs) with no failures in 40 years. Just use hardwood such as
                    mahogony, teak, or oak across the top faces of your cut out transom
                    to hold the screws 1.5" should be sufficient.

                    David Jost


                    Peter installed a
                    > bronze traveller that was raised high enough to give more room for
                    > the motor head to clear the opening when raised. It can be just
                    > barely seen in the photo at Bolger 3 in the Lestat folder.
                    >
                    > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/photos/view/624d?b=31
                    >
                    > http://tinyurl.com/nt966
                    >
                    > The B&S motors might be another option - eith 4-stroke or electic.
                    >
                    > http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?DocID=76266
                    >
                    > http://tinyurl.com/peb7g
                    >
                    > Nels
                    >
                  • Greg Flemming
                    Sorry for not replying earlier but only just sighted this post. As far as I am aware Matilda Jean is built to plan and the long shaft motors do not clear the
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 7, 2006
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                      Sorry for not replying earlier but only just sighted this post. As
                      far as I am aware Matilda Jean is built to plan and the long shaft
                      motors do not clear the water when tilted up (if you can tilt them
                      up provided the cowling over the motor is not too big, as is the
                      case with the 4hp 4 stroke Yamaha)

                      If you look at the photo of Micro, Cricket in the files section of
                      the Bolger Overflow Group 7 in a file called Australian Micros, you
                      will see a great photo of Cricket which sports a Yamaha 5 hp motor,
                      and the transom has been modified so that the motor can clear the
                      top of the transom cut-out.

                      The Micro of Peter de Boer in Holland also sports the same modifed
                      transom (see article in Water Craft No 29 of Sept/Oct 2001) As do
                      several others, of course)

                      The point is that the motor will far enough into the water, even as
                      a short shaft, so you do not need a long shaft on Micro, I think?

                      Greg F





                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Balogh <mark@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Greg and others who have answered,
                      >
                      > Thanks for the feedback
                      > It seems like the long shaft would be good if one is pitching but
                      you
                      > seem to prefer the short. The measurements I have indicate that
                      if you
                      > can raise the engine completely it would clear the water. Could
                      you
                      > please elaborate on why you would prefer the short shaft 4hp?
                      > Mark
                      >
                      > On Jul 5, 2006, at 4:00 AM, Greg Flemming wrote:
                      >
                      > > Hello Mark
                      > >
                      > > Generally we use the 4hp 4 stroke Yamaha that the boat came
                      with, but
                      > > it does not allow the motor to tilt up out of the water
                      (standard
                      > > opening). A long shaft British Seagull Silver Century will tilt
                      up OK
                      > > but the prop will still just skim the water. a 3.5 Tohatsu 2
                      stroke
                      > > fits OK but not so good when motoring into a good wind and
                      against the
                      > > tide! 4 HP Yamaha is generally ideal (if it fitted opening and
                      was a
                      > > short shaft!)
                      > >
                      > > Greg F Micro, Matilda Jean
                      > >
                      > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bsdbatwing" <mark@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hello Micro sailors,
                      > > > What size and brand of outboard do you use on your Micro?
                      Does it
                      > > fit
                      > > > in the standard transom opening?
                      > > > Thanks,
                      > > > Mark
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Mark Balogh
                      Thanks Greg and all who replied. This is the type of information I needed. If I can get by with the short shaft all the better. It is 2 lbs. lighter and 5
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 7, 2006
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                        Thanks Greg and all who replied. This is the type of information I
                        needed. If I can get by with the short shaft all the better. It is 2
                        lbs. lighter and 5" smaller to handle.
                        Anybody have any reliability comments regarding the Yamaha 4 strokes?

                        Thanks
                        Mark

                        On Jul 7, 2006, at 5:35 AM, Greg Flemming wrote:

                        > Sorry for not replying earlier but only just sighted this post. As
                        > far as I am aware Matilda Jean is built to plan and the long shaft
                        > motors do not clear the water when tilted up (if you can tilt them
                        > up provided the cowling over the motor is not too big, as is the
                        > case with the 4hp 4 stroke Yamaha)
                        >
                        > If you look at the photo of Micro, Cricket in the files section of
                        > the Bolger Overflow Group 7 in a file called Australian Micros, you
                        > will see a great photo of Cricket which sports a Yamaha 5 hp motor,
                        > and the transom has been modified so that the motor can clear the
                        > top of the transom cut-out.
                        >
                        > The Micro of Peter de Boer in Holland also sports the same modifed
                        > transom (see article in Water Craft No 29 of Sept/Oct 2001) As do
                        > several others, of course)
                        >
                        > The point is that the motor will far enough into the water, even as
                        > a short shaft, so you do not need a long shaft on Micro, I think?
                        >
                        > Greg F


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Chester
                        ... strokes? ... Greg: The Esther Mae (Bolger Tennessee) is outfitted with a 25 hp four stroke Yamaha. Much larger that you will be needing, but a Yamaha none
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 7, 2006
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                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Balogh <mark@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks Greg and all who replied. This is the type of information I
                          > needed.
                          > Anybody have any reliability comments regarding the Yamaha 4
                          strokes?
                          >
                          > Thanks
                          > Mark
                          >

                          Greg:

                          The Esther Mae (Bolger Tennessee) is outfitted with a 25 hp four
                          stroke Yamaha. Much larger that you will be needing, but a Yamaha
                          none the less. It is a 2000 year model and when I purchased (last
                          December) it was already equipped with a hour meter / tach,
                          (discovered sh0ortlyu after purchase due to the mounting location
                          inside the aft compartment) indicating an even 100 hours. Since
                          Christamas Eve, (day of purchase) I have added another 180 hours.
                          Also replaced the spark plugs and fuel filters, now due for an oil
                          change and appears to be in need of a tune-up since the tach only
                          indicates 4200 rpm, way short of the 5000 - 6000 represented in the
                          manual. I have purchased a lower pitch prop through the local dealer
                          and it only gained 200 rpm while dropping 2 mph on top speed. In
                          this time we have logged over 1000 miles on the GPS and had nary a
                          worry about performance. It hums line a sewing machine, pushes the
                          Esther Mae at 12 mph with 2 on board with gear for overnight trips.
                          Two long runs of 40 mph one way without stopping and a several 30
                          mile runs give 10 mpg consistently. Mr Bolger expressed great
                          interest in seeing data on fuel economy at lower speeds, as they
                          should be fantastic. My local dealer has been very helpful to me
                          with prop choices, parts for the engine etc. If the need arises to
                          repower, at this point it would definitely be a Yamaha.

                          Caloosarat

                          Previously a 30 year, 2-stroke Evinrude fan (all saltwater use).
                        • Stefan Nohn
                          Hallo to all, Maybe an alternative. Elektric outboards. I ve seen them on a market. They are complet new technology. See at: http://www.torqeedo.com/ Best to
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 10, 2006
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                            Hallo to all,

                            Maybe an alternative. Elektric outboards. I've seen them on a market.
                            They are complet new technology. See at:

                            http://www.torqeedo.com/

                            Best to all
                            Stefan
                          • Clyde Wisner
                            Hi Stefan, If you communicate with them, an English version would be great. Clyde
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 10, 2006
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                              Hi Stefan, If you communicate with them, an English version would be
                              great. Clyde

                              Stefan Nohn wrote:

                              >Hallo to all,
                              >
                              >Maybe an alternative. Elektric outboards. I've seen them on a market.
                              >They are complet new technology. See at:
                              >
                              >http://www.torqeedo.com/
                              >
                              >Best to all
                              >Stefan
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Bolger rules!!!
                              >- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                              >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                              >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                              >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                              >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                              >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Máximo
                              ... Clyde, there is an english version http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/home.html Máximo.
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 10, 2006
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                                on 7/10/06 10:09 AM, Clyde Wisner at clydewis@... wrote:

                                > Hi Stefan, If you communicate with them, an English version would be
                                > great. Clyde

                                Clyde, there is an english version
                                http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/home.html

                                Máximo.
                              • Clyde Wisner
                                Before my eyes, when I moved something off screen. Clyde ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jul 10, 2006
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                                  Before my eyes, when I moved something off screen. Clyde

                                  Clyde Wisner wrote:

                                  >Hi Stefan, If you communicate with them, an English version would be
                                  >great. Clyde
                                  >
                                  >Stefan Nohn wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >>Hallo to all,
                                  >>
                                  >>Maybe an alternative. Elektric outboards. I've seen them on a market.
                                  >>They are complet new technology. See at:
                                  >>
                                  >>http://www.torqeedo.com/
                                  >>
                                  >>Best to all
                                  >>Stefan
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>Bolger rules!!!
                                  >>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                  >>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                                  >>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                  >>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                  >>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                  >>- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >>- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Bolger rules!!!
                                  >- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                  >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                                  >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                  >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                  >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                  >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • derbyrm
                                  Very interesting, but not completely new. For similar tech, see the efforts of the toy makers, some of the most creative engineers on the planet. The electric
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jul 10, 2006
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                                    Very interesting, but not completely new.

                                    For similar tech, see the efforts of the toy makers, some of the most
                                    creative engineers on the planet. The electric powered radio control
                                    aircraft use the same elements as Torqeedo; e.g.
                                    http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0093p?&C=GHG&P=ML

                                    Roger
                                    derbyrm@...
                                    http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Stefan Nohn" <nohnmusik@...>
                                    To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 5:21 AM
                                    Subject: [bolger] Re: Outboards for Micro


                                    > Hallo to all,
                                    >
                                    > Maybe an alternative. Elektric outboards. I've seen them on a market.
                                    > They are complet new technology. See at:
                                    >
                                    > http://www.torqeedo.com/
                                    >
                                    > Best to all
                                    > Stefan
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Bolger rules!!!
                                    > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                    > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
                                    > horses
                                    > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                    > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                    > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
                                    > (978) 282-1349
                                    > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Mark Balogh
                                    Micro fans, About a week ago I posed a question to the list regarding short and long shaft outboards for Micro. First I want to thank everyone who took the
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jul 17, 2006
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                                      Micro fans,

                                      About a week ago I posed a question to the list regarding short and
                                      long shaft outboards for Micro. First I want to thank everyone who
                                      took the time and effort to relate their experiences. Your pretty much
                                      unanimous reply had pretty much swayed me from long shaft to short. I
                                      had also sent a fax to Mr. Bolger with the same question mentioning
                                      the manufacturers measurements for the new outboard in question but
                                      was not sure I would get a reply. I got my reply today and just so
                                      everyone can be as surprised as I am Mr. Bolger's reply was "Recommend
                                      the long shaft." He also related that "Anecdotes and photos of the
                                      boat in use are appreciated." Thanks again for the input.

                                      Mark
                                    • 9buck crowley
                                      Mark, I ve run the 5 hp honda four stroke on my micro for eight years. In that time two plastic items have broke neither of which prevented normal runnnig. I
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jul 28, 2006
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                                        Mark,

                                        I've run the 5 hp honda four stroke on my micro for eight years. In that
                                        time two plastic items have broke neither of which prevented normal runnnig.
                                        I also had to resort to using stainless steel shear pins as the torque of
                                        the engine would tend to break the standard pins over time My engine is a
                                        standard shaft length can't imagine why Phil suggested the long.

                                        Buck


                                        >From: Mark Balogh <mark@...>
                                        >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                        >To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                        >Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Outboards for Micro
                                        >Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:54:41 -0400
                                        >
                                        >Micro fans,
                                        >
                                        >About a week ago I posed a question to the list regarding short and
                                        >long shaft outboards for Micro. First I want to thank everyone who
                                        >took the time and effort to relate their experiences. Your pretty much
                                        >unanimous reply had pretty much swayed me from long shaft to short. I
                                        >had also sent a fax to Mr. Bolger with the same question mentioning
                                        >the manufacturers measurements for the new outboard in question but
                                        >was not sure I would get a reply. I got my reply today and just so
                                        >everyone can be as surprised as I am Mr. Bolger's reply was "Recommend
                                        >the long shaft." He also related that "Anecdotes and photos of the
                                        >boat in use are appreciated." Thanks again for the input.
                                        >
                                        >Mark
                                        >
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