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Re: Micro's seagoing ability

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  • mannthree
    Thomas, The Micro is a great boat for coastal cruising given that you keep a careful eye on the weather. She is self righting and self bailing, has a great
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 1, 2006
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      Thomas,

      The Micro is a great boat for coastal cruising given that you keep a
      careful eye on the weather. She is self righting and self bailing,
      has a great volume that can be fitted out as the owner desires. There
      is nothing complicated about the building process except maybe the
      lead keel, but this can be outsourced to a foundry. It took me a long
      time to understand that the Micro is cruiser/daysailer, not a racing
      boat. She is a heavy displacement high volume design and of short
      waterline length, so she wont bolt along. In light winds and choppy
      waters she will plonk around like a cork. However when the wind picks
      up she comes into her own and will scream along (with sail reefed) in
      20 - 25 knots reasonably comfortably. The rig is relatively "low
      tech" and care needs to be taken to get the best sail shape possible
      for all conditions to ensure she gives optimum performance. Two
      people would cruise very comfortably in a Micro given her capacity for
      storing provisions. I keep my Micro on a mooring and which is ideal
      for impulse sailing. Given her volume, weight and the mast length and
      its weight I would think that sailing regularly would be a bit of a
      chore (IMHO),

      Cheers,

      John Mann


      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "largethomassails"
      <largethomassails@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi all,
      >
      > I'm new to your wonderful and most interesting group and I just
      > stumbled in here as I'm wondering about building a Micro or a similar
      > - veeeery - small cruising boat. It's not my first building project -
      > or better will not be by the time I start with it - as I'm currently
      > being apprenticed as a boatbuilder over here in Lübeck, Germany, at
      > the Baltic Sea.
      >
      > Question about the Micro: Would you consider the design "seagoing" or
      > "seaworthy" enough to mostly do coastal trips in it? It's just we
      > don't have too much interesting inshore water around here, and I don't
      > want to exlusively sail on lakes.
      >
      > So I'm generally interested in your experience and thoughts on going
      > "out" on a Micro or a similar design, such as the Chebacco.
      >
      > Cheers
      > Thomas
      >
    • Peter Lenihan
      ... or ... Hi Thomas, Seaworthy ; a big part of the answer will be related to how well you build her and just how much confidence you have in her to hold
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 1, 2006
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "largethomassails"
        <largethomassails@...> wrote:
        > Question about the Micro: Would you consider the design "seagoing"
        or
        > "seaworthy" enough to mostly do coastal trips in it?


        Hi Thomas,

        "Seaworthy"; a big part of the answer will be related to how
        well
        you build her and just how much confidence you have in her to hold
        together when things get rough.Practicing good seamanship, with all
        that entails, like watching your weather etc.... can help alot in
        keeping her seaworthy :-)

        "Seagoing"; define sea :-D....MICRO was not intended to be an
        ocean going vessel but that does not mean she could not handle a bit
        of
        it with a competent skipper and regards to the above note on
        seaworthy.

        I would imagine if one did not get too carried away with the
        bewitching
        nature of a MICRO(large interior volume,self-righting,self-bailing
        and
        darned cute) and kept firmly in mind that she is ONLY 15' 6" long
        then
        one may not come to much harm. Off-shore sailing would also suggest
        not
        skipping the addition of all the foam floatation specified on the
        plans!

        Build her to the best of your abilities,increase the scantlings to
        1/2" plywood,reef earlier then you think and you may well have some
        grand adventures and great happiness when all is said and done.Take
        lots of pictures!


        Sincerely,

        Peter Lenihan,ex owner/builder of the Micro LESTAT,from along the
        shores of the festive St.Lawrence...HAPPY CANADA DAY all you Cannucks
        !!!!!!!......eh!
      • Thomas Schmidt
        All great knowledge-sharers, I m grateful to all the interesting information you re offering, and be assured that neither of your advice is touching on
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 1, 2006
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          All great knowledge-sharers,

          I'm grateful to all the interesting information you're offering, and be
          assured that neither of your advice is touching on inattentive ears!

          @David Graybeal: Thanks for the inspiring quote. And for the
          blessings... :-D
          "When it comes, the desire to build a boat is one of those that cannot
          be resisted. It begins as a little cloud on a serene horizon. It ends by
          covering the whole sky, so that you think of nothing else" -- Arthur Rans
          I'll try to always keep an eye on th e glittering surface of the
          water... and I hope that will be what always pushes me along to finish
          the boat and to get it into the water!
          I guess one reason for choosing the Micro (or Long Micro) is the
          following: I am - doubt it or not - 6' 8 3/4'' (2.05 metres) tall.

          @Buck Crowley: Building the hull from 1/2 inch occume seems to be pretty
          heavy, but you say it makes for a strong boat, and Phil approved of it.
          Could you tell me your boat's empty weight?
          In speaking about real cockpits I presume you meant such opening to the aft?

          @John Mann: I guessed from the beginning that she is no race boat... :-D
          I'm not looking for one at this time, otherwise I'd stick to my dream of
          a Minitransat boat. I'm just looking for a nice little boat to get out
          on the water with and which I can use for small cruises over the
          weekend. I don't like to be forced to camp out on the beach every night
          when going out on a dinghy, so I figured some cabin cruiser, also to do
          some serious several-weeks-cruising, as I definitely want to visit
          Scotland and Ireland by boat once. Not sure whether a Micro is good for
          that, but it would be nice...

          @Peter Lenihan: Thanks for the adviceI love the looks of Lestat (yes,
          David, I really do)! One excellent piece of work every boat builder
          would be proud of. I just hope I get to do it this good, too.
          Was the cockpit of Lestat build to the original plans or did you modify it?
          Same question as to Buck... Do you know the weight of Lestat?
          Do you still have any website online? Because all links to your site are
          invalid.
          Happy Canada Day to you, too :-D

          Many thanks again to all of you,
          Cheers
          Thomas

          ----Original Message----

          > Thomas,
          >
          > The Micro is a great boat for coastal cruising given that you keep a
          > careful eye on the weather. She is self righting and self bailing,
          > has a great volume that can be fitted out as the owner desires. There
          > is nothing complicated about the building process except maybe the
          > lead keel, but this can be outsourced to a foundry. It took me a long
          > time to understand that the Micro is cruiser/daysailer, not a racing
          > boat. She is a heavy displacement high volume design and of short
          > waterline length, so she wont bolt along. In light winds and choppy
          > waters she will plonk around like a cork. However when the wind picks
          > up she comes into her own and will scream along (with sail reefed) in
          > 20 - 25 knots reasonably comfortably. The rig is relatively "low
          > tech" and care needs to be taken to get the best sail shape possible
          > for all conditions to ensure she gives optimum performance. Two
          > people would cruise very comfortably in a Micro given her capacity for
          > storing provisions. I keep my Micro on a mooring and which is ideal
          > for impulse sailing. Given her volume, weight and the mast length and
          > its weight I would think that sailing regularly would be a bit of a
          > chore (IMHO),
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > John Mann
          >
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > "largethomassails"
          > <largethomassails@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi all,
          > >
          > > I'm new to your wonderful and most interesting group and I just
          > > stumbled in here as I'm wondering about building a Micro or a similar
          > > - veeeery - small cruising boat. It's not my first building project -
          > > or better will not be by the time I start with it - as I'm currently
          > > being apprenticed as a boatbuilder over here in Lübeck, Germany, at
          > > the Baltic Sea.
          > >
          > > Question about the Micro: Would you consider the design "seagoing" or
          > > "seaworthy" enough to mostly do coastal trips in it? It's just we
          > > don't have too much interesting inshore water around here, and I don't
          > > want to exlusively sail on lakes.
          > >
          > > So I'm generally interested in your experience and thoughts on going
          > > "out" on a Micro or a similar design, such as the Chebacco.
          > >
          > > Cheers
          > > Thomas
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >No virus found in this incoming message.
          >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          >Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.6/378 - Release Date: 28.06.2006
          >
          >


          --
          Large Thomas sails on a big blue sea of dreams...

          Haiku, the gonna-be micro cruiser... headroom for a tall man? No, thanks! Space for dreams? Yes, please!






          ___________________________________________________________
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        • Thomas Schmidt
          All great knowledge-sharers, I m grateful to all the interesting information you re offering, and be assured that neither of your advice is touching on
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 2, 2006
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            All great knowledge-sharers,

            I'm grateful to all the interesting information you're offering, and be
            assured that neither of your advice is touching on inattentive ears!

            @David Graybeal: Thanks for the inspiring quote. And for the
            blessings... :-D
            "When it comes, the desire to build a boat is one of those that cannot
            be resisted. It begins as a little cloud on a serene horizon. It ends by
            covering the whole sky, so that you think of nothing else" -- Arthur Rans
            I'll try to always keep an eye on th e glittering surface of the
            water... and I hope that will be what always pushes me along to finish
            the boat and to get it into the water!
            I guess one reason for choosing the Micro (or Long Micro) is the
            following: I am - doubt it or not - 6' 8 3/4'' (2.05 metres) tall.

            @Buck Crowley: Building the hull from 1/2 inch occume seems to be pretty
            heavy, but you say it makes for a strong boat, and Phil approved of it.
            Could you tell me your boat's empty weight?
            In speaking about real cockpits I presume you meant such opening to the aft?

            @John Mann: I guessed from the beginning that she is no race boat... :-D
            I'm not looking for one at this time, otherwise I'd stick to my dream of
            a Minitransat boat. I'm just looking for a nice little boat to get out
            on the water with and which I can use for small cruises over the
            weekend. I don't like to be forced to camp out on the beach every night
            when going out on a dinghy, so I figured some cabin cruiser, also to do
            some serious several-weeks-cruising, as I definitely want to visit
            Scotland and Ireland by boat once. Not sure whether a Micro is good for
            that, but it would be nice...

            @Peter Lenihan: Thanks for the adviceI love the looks of Lestat (yes,
            David, I really do)! One excellent piece of work every boat builder
            would be proud of. I just hope I get to do it this good, too.
            Same question as to Buck... Do you know the weight of Lestat?
            Interesting articles on Duckworks you have on Lestat!
            Happy Canada Day to you, too :-D

            Many thanks again to all of you,
            Cheers
            Thomas

            ----Original Message----

            > Thomas,
            >
            > The Micro is a great boat for coastal cruising given that you keep a
            > careful eye on the weather. She is self righting and self bailing,
            > has a great volume that can be fitted out as the owner desires. There
            > is nothing complicated about the building process except maybe the
            > lead keel, but this can be outsourced to a foundry. It took me a long
            > time to understand that the Micro is cruiser/daysailer, not a racing
            > boat. She is a heavy displacement high volume design and of short
            > waterline length, so she wont bolt along. In light winds and choppy
            > waters she will plonk around like a cork. However when the wind picks
            > up she comes into her own and will scream along (with sail reefed) in
            > 20 - 25 knots reasonably comfortably. The rig is relatively "low
            > tech" and care needs to be taken to get the best sail shape possible
            > for all conditions to ensure she gives optimum performance. Two
            > people would cruise very comfortably in a Micro given her capacity for
            > storing provisions. I keep my Micro on a mooring and which is ideal
            > for impulse sailing. Given her volume, weight and the mast length and
            > its weight I would think that sailing regularly would be a bit of a
            > chore (IMHO),
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > John Mann
            >
            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "largethomassails"
            > <largethomassails@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi all,
            > >
            > > I'm new to your wonderful and most interesting group and I just
            > > stumbled in here as I'm wondering about building a Micro or a similar
            > > - veeeery - small cruising boat. It's not my first building project -
            > > or better will not be by the time I start with it - as I'm currently
            > > being apprenticed as a boatbuilder over here in Lübeck, Germany, at
            > > the Baltic Sea.
            > >
            > > Question about the Micro: Would you consider the design "seagoing" or
            > > "seaworthy" enough to mostly do coastal trips in it? It's just we
            > > don't have too much interesting inshore water around here, and I don't
            > > want to exlusively sail on lakes.
            > >
            > > So I'm generally interested in your experience and thoughts on going
            > > "out" on a Micro or a similar design, such as the Chebacco.
            > >
            > > Cheers
            > > Thomas
            > >
            >
            --
            Large Thomas sails on a big blue sea of dreams...

            Haiku, the gonna-be micro cruiser... headroom for a tall man? No,
            thanks! Space for dreams? Yes, please!





            ___________________________________________________________
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          • Peter Lenihan
            ... modify it? ... are ... Hi Thomas, Thanks! The cockpit was built as per plan with the only exception being my addition of inclined back-rests for the
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 3, 2006
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              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Schmidt <largethomassails@...>
              wrote:
              > @Peter Lenihan: Thanks for the adviceI love the looks of Lestat (yes,
              > David, I really do)! One excellent piece of work every boat builder
              > would be proud of. I just hope I get to do it this good, too.
              > Was the cockpit of Lestat build to the original plans or did you
              modify it?
              > Same question as to Buck... Do you know the weight of Lestat?
              > Do you still have any website online? Because all links to your site
              are
              > invalid.
              > Happy Canada Day to you, too :-D
              >
              > Many thanks again to all of you,
              > Cheers
              > Thomas
              Hi Thomas,

              Thanks! The cockpit was built as per plan with the only exception
              being my addition of inclined back-rests for the cockpit coamings
              rather then the dead straight(vertical) ones on the plans.
              It has been too many years but I seem to recall her weight being
              somewhere near 900lbs....+ or - say a 100 lbs.:-)
              Regarding my"website online", I never had a website however a number of
              nice pictures where posted and included with a few "articles" I had
              written for the world famous online e-zine,DUCKWORKS MAGAZINE. Perhaps
              it is/was links to these that you mistook for a personal website?

              At any rate, you may rest assured that whichever Bolger beauty you
              decide to build, there will be some nice helpful folks within this
              group to help you along with useful tidbits of fabulously free advice
              for the taking ;-) Just never forget to have lots of fun and to enjoy
              the process for this will one day come to an end after you launch and I
              dare say there will be days on the water when you will look back
              longingly at those heading days spent making sawdust :-)


              HAPPY BOATBUILDING!

              Sincerely,

              Peter Lenihan.......
              Sincerely
            • Nels
              ... similar ... project - ... currently ... or ... don t ... going ... Hi Thomas, Late reply here to your post as I have been away for two weeks. You might be
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 5, 2006
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                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "largethomassails"
                <largethomassails@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi all,
                >
                > I'm new to your wonderful and most interesting group and I just
                > stumbled in here as I'm wondering about building a Micro or a
                similar
                > - veeeery - small cruising boat. It's not my first building
                project -
                > or better will not be by the time I start with it - as I'm
                currently
                > being apprenticed as a boatbuilder over here in Lübeck, Germany, at
                > the Baltic Sea.
                >
                > Question about the Micro: Would you consider the design "seagoing"
                or
                > "seaworthy" enough to mostly do coastal trips in it? It's just we
                > don't have too much interesting inshore water around here, and I
                don't
                > want to exlusively sail on lakes.
                >
                > So I'm generally interested in your experience and thoughts on
                going
                > "out" on a Micro or a similar design, such as the Chebacco.
                >
                > Cheers
                > Thomas
                >

                Hi Thomas,

                Late reply here to your post as I have been away for two weeks. You
                might be interested in contacting a fellow countryman of yours named
                Stefan Nohn who has built a Seabird 86 called I think "Blue Air" and
                I believe lives in Dusseldorf or therabouts.

                http://ca.geocities.com/nohnpages/original.html

                He could expand on what he likes about the design and some things he
                is not so crazy about - lack of interior space being one thing I
                believe he mentioned. It is certainly a design capable of off-shore
                work with a smooth and easy motion. Also it is great for single-
                handed sailing with the junk rig he is using and also for canal use.

                His e-mail is at the bottom of the home page.

                Nels
              • Thomas Schmidt
                Hi Peter, I do very much think I will enjoy the building. There may be hours you mourn your fate and the lightly curse the day the ill luck of finding out
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 5, 2006
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                  Hi Peter,

                  I do very much think I will enjoy the building. There may be hours you
                  mourn your fate and the lightly curse the day the ill luck of finding
                  out about a beautiful boat hit you. But as you instantly fell in love
                  with it and wanted nothing more then to build one like this... you won't
                  give up. At least not me.
                  Because I, too, know the Zen Zone. Just experienced it again today,
                  although in the Zen Lite version, while painting the bottom of a work
                  catamaran with tar epoxy.

                  I found your "articles" at Duckworks, and I love your style of writing,
                  whether it is in those "articles" or in here, at the Bolger group.
                  I see you as a pub-going gentleman-boatbuilder, and a true gentleman indeed!
                  By the way, I guess at least as long as those pictures of Lestat are
                  online your fame will never cease, and I may say we're all looking
                  forward to the turning-out of your Lady Windemere...

                  Best regards,
                  Thomas


                  Peter Lenihan wrote:

                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > Thomas Schmidt <largethomassails@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > @Peter Lenihan: Thanks for the adviceI love the looks of Lestat (yes,
                  > > David, I really do)! One excellent piece of work every boat builder
                  > > would be proud of. I just hope I get to do it this good, too.
                  > > Was the cockpit of Lestat build to the original plans or did you
                  > modify it?
                  > > Same question as to Buck... Do you know the weight of Lestat?
                  > > Do you still have any website online? Because all links to your site
                  > are
                  > > invalid.
                  > > Happy Canada Day to you, too :-D
                  > >
                  > > Many thanks again to all of you,
                  > > Cheers
                  > > Thomas
                  > Hi Thomas,
                  >
                  > Thanks! The cockpit was built as per plan with the only exception
                  > being my addition of inclined back-rests for the cockpit coamings
                  > rather then the dead straight(vertical) ones on the plans.
                  > It has been too many years but I seem to recall her weight being
                  > somewhere near 900lbs....+ or - say a 100 lbs.:-)
                  > Regarding my"website online", I never had a website however a number of
                  > nice pictures where posted and included with a few "articles" I had
                  > written for the world famous online e-zine,DUCKWORKS MAGAZINE. Perhaps
                  > it is/was links to these that you mistook for a personal website?
                  >
                  > At any rate, you may rest assured that whichever Bolger beauty you
                  > decide to build, there will be some nice helpful folks within this
                  > group to help you along with useful tidbits of fabulously free advice
                  > for the taking ;-) Just never forget to have lots of fun and to enjoy
                  > the process for this will one day come to an end after you launch and I
                  > dare say there will be days on the water when you will look back
                  > longingly at those heading days spent making sawdust :-)
                  >
                  > HAPPY BOATBUILDING!
                  >
                  > Sincerely,
                  >
                  > Peter Lenihan.......
                  > Sincerely
                  >
                  >


                  ___________________________________________________________
                  Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
                • Thomas Schmidt
                  Hi Nels, Thanks for answering anyway. I will contact Stefan. Have fun with Lestat :D I read you thought about pursaching the Navigator update for the Long
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 5, 2006
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                    Hi Nels,
                    Thanks for answering anyway. I will contact Stefan. Have fun with Lestat :D
                    I read you thought about pursaching the Navigator update for the Long
                    Micro plans? I wonder whether it enhances the space considerably,
                    especially the headroom?

                    Best regards,
                    Thomas

                    ----Original Message----
                    Nels wrote:

                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > "largethomassails"
                    > <largethomassails@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi all,
                    > >
                    > > I'm new to your wonderful and most interesting group and I just
                    > > stumbled in here as I'm wondering about building a Micro or a
                    > similar
                    > > - veeeery - small cruising boat. It's not my first building
                    > project -
                    > > or better will not be by the time I start with it - as I'm
                    > currently
                    > > being apprenticed as a boatbuilder over here in Lübeck, Germany, at
                    > > the Baltic Sea.
                    > >
                    > > Question about the Micro: Would you consider the design "seagoing"
                    > or
                    > > "seaworthy" enough to mostly do coastal trips in it? It's just we
                    > > don't have too much interesting inshore water around here, and I
                    > don't
                    > > want to exlusively sail on lakes.
                    > >
                    > > So I'm generally interested in your experience and thoughts on
                    > going
                    > > "out" on a Micro or a similar design, such as the Chebacco.
                    > >
                    > > Cheers
                    > > Thomas
                    > >
                    >
                    > Hi Thomas,
                    >
                    > Late reply here to your post as I have been away for two weeks. You
                    > might be interested in contacting a fellow countryman of yours named
                    > Stefan Nohn who has built a Seabird 86 called I think "Blue Air" and
                    > I believe lives in Dusseldorf or therabouts.
                    >
                    > http://ca.geocities.com/nohnpages/original.html
                    > <http://ca.geocities.com/nohnpages/original.html>
                    >
                    > He could expand on what he likes about the design and some things he
                    > is not so crazy about - lack of interior space being one thing I
                    > believe he mentioned. It is certainly a design capable of off-shore
                    > work with a smooth and easy motion. Also it is great for single-
                    > handed sailing with the junk rig he is using and also for canal use.
                    >
                    > His e-mail is at the bottom of the home page.
                    >
                    > Nels
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    ___________________________________________________________
                    Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
                  • Nels
                    ... Lestat :D ... Long ... One could get about 5 10 headroom amidships in a LM Navigator and more if one raises the boom position a bit higher for the
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jul 5, 2006
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Schmidt <largethomassails@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Nels,
                      > Thanks for answering anyway. I will contact Stefan. Have fun with
                      Lestat :D
                      > I read you thought about pursaching the Navigator update for the
                      Long
                      > Micro plans? I wonder whether it enhances the space considerably,
                      > especially the headroom?
                      >
                      > Best regards,
                      > Thomas
                      >
                      One could get about 5'10' headroom amidships in a LM Navigator and
                      more if one raises the boom position a bit higher for the standard
                      sailplan or converts to the Chinese gaff.

                      I enquired about a Long Micro modification update, but Susanne
                      believes one could simply get enough information by adapting the
                      Micro Navigator plans, which I have. The only challenge is the
                      requirement for a remote tiller location to be able to steer from
                      the pilothouse. Also the Chinese gaff sailplan area may have to be
                      re-calculated for the LM Navigator.

                      Susanne prefers the Long Micro hull over Micro for offshore work.
                      That additional 4 foot of waterline is quite an increase and the
                      added displacement amidships allows it to carry a considerably
                      larger sailplan and a larger motor.

                      There would be nothing "Micro" about a Long Micro Navigator:-) It
                      would be a big surprisingly roomy boat.

                      Incidently the standard Long Micro is pretty close in size to TREKKA
                      which circumnavigated twice and had the record for some time as the
                      smallest boat to do that. The book about the first voyage, in 1955-
                      57 is back in print again. What a great read!

                      http://www.fineedge.com/NAUTICAL%20BOOKS/trekkaforeword.html

                      Amazon also had it on sale for $12.95 USD in softcover.

                      Nels
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