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Re: Oldshoe with cabin - Gnushoe

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  • Nels
    ... found in BWAOM. ... Bolger had this to say in a recent MAIB article regarding Oldshoe. The design is an obvious candidate for a Birdwatcher top, perhaps a
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 2, 2006
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      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell"
      <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
      >
      > An approach which has fairly obvious parallels is PCB's Super Mouse
      found in BWAOM.
      >

      Bolger had this to say in a recent MAIB article regarding Oldshoe.

      "The design is an obvious candidate for a Birdwatcher top, perhaps a
      removeable one to use in appropriate weather. That would make one
      heavy-weather capable indeed, they're stiff as designed, with the
      200lb of outside ballast giving a reassuring range of stability."

      Nels
    • graeme19121984
      ... Kenneth, This cuddy may be large enough for children to shelter in from a downpour, and on calmer days when there would be little danger of flooding
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 2, 2006
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
        wrote:
        >If I were to build one for myself, the most I would want in a cabin
        >is the cuddy shown in this photo, which is really no more than a
        >locker for secure/dry storage:
        >
        > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger6/photos/view/efcb?b=6

        Kenneth,

        This cuddy may be large enough for children to shelter in from a
        downpour, and on calmer days when there would be little danger of
        flooding through the hatchway they might like to stay in there :-)

        Alternativeley, if the hatch acccess were not through the bulkhead
        as pictured, but was a hatch in the raised deck shown, then there
        might be just sufficient privacy for porta-potti use within. I guess
        the hatch coaming might be chest high when sitting within. PCB has
        drawn a few heads in the bow with the occupiers head and shoulders
        protruding above deck. It would require a bit of agility in stepping
        from the cockpit seat, up, over, and down into the hatch, but the
        concession to some privacy might remove a bigger obstacle to some
        peoples' crewing.

        Cheers
        Graeme
      • graeme19121984
        ... No not really. I don t know that it would look bad. Just that it does t have to slavishly follow conventional dictates about how a boat is supposed to look
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 2, 2006
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          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BllFs6@... wrote:
          >, but I think it may meet all Common Sense Criteria including
          >#5: "...They don't exist because they are fashionable or
          >character boats."
          >
          > So what you are trying to say diplomatically is that if form
          >follows function then my design would be amazingly functional given
          >its amazingly bad looks :)

          No not really. I don't know that it would look bad. Just that it
          does't have to slavishly follow conventional dictates about how a
          boat is supposed to look to be a good boat.



          > My sketch is LESS? beamy than the real Oldshoe.

          My mistake. I eyeballed it again - and counted grid squares ;-) and
          your sketch seems ok .


          >I realize pretty much everything interior to the hull shell would
          >be different and have to be engineered by me, myself and I.

          Some of those things might be serving more than one function. PCB
          can be quite suttle in this. PCB assigns a number to a design after
          the offsets are calculated. Old Shoe is #449. PCB&F would probably
          supply the offsets so you could completely change the internals and
          keep exactly the same hull form, however the replacement internals
          would need to satisfy the structural and other demands. I'm sure you
          know more about that engineering stuff than I - just thought I'd
          better mention it though :)

          > SOLAS...
          >Imagine looking at Oldshoe from a side profile. The bottom of the
          >hull is a curved surface that "dips" down about 6 inches IIRC in
          >the center in relation to the bow and stern. Now the cabin floor
          >needs to be flat, and I would prefer that the footwell be flat and
          >above the external water as well because I want it to seriously
          >self draining. If you use foam topped by thin flat plywood panels,
          >you've put a fair thickness of foam over a large number of square
          >feet. I did a back of the envelope calc awhile back and though I
          >dont recall the amount of bouyancy you get out of it, it was at
          >least decent IIRC. Now this DOES eat into cabin height and
          >footwell depth, but how badly and at what costs to other
          >considerations I do not know.

          There is probably a lot of positive bouyancy here if you do this,
          but carefully calculate your new centres of gravity and bouyancy,
          righting arms and so on for various circumstances. The foam weighs
          something, obviously, and so the hull COG has been lowered, which
          may add to performance when upright, but the capsised COB has been
          brought closer to the floor too. In fact they may be almost
          superimposed. Worse, with the weight of the other stuff in the boat
          contributing, on her beam ends the COG may actually be above the
          flooded COB ( relative to the floor of course). If masts are
          shipped, their bouyancy may prevent inversion, but the boat may not
          self right. If it turns turtle it may be in the most stable
          position :( or, depending on sea state, it may only be rescued with
          some effort.

          Calculation may show it's alright, but off the top of my head I
          can't think of anywhere Bolger shows flotation right down low. If it
          doesn't go from bilge to deck like in the quarters or bows perhaps,
          then it is shown chocked up against the deck underside right off the
          floor so when flooded the boat ought to sit stable in the correct
          orientation without manhandling to get it that way. It wont easily
          be tipped over by wave action before it is bailed out. I thought he
          put the foam off the floor to discourage rot and to allow space for
          things like oars or legs to be poked under there. Suttle.

          >calculations as to what/when/where/ how stable she is seriously
          >flooded under different scenarios. I do think its doable, but then
          >again it certainly isnt something you'd wanna just eyeball, wing it
          >and hope for the best either.
          >...time for more boxes, rulers, and sketches me thinks....

          It's doable. Just gotta get out all the wrinkles.

          > I am suprised that an assymetric cabin seems to be a fairly novel
          >idea. I can see myself being admonished by Bolger now. "Listen
          >young man....form may follow function but one must learn to
          >control oneself" :) I am kinda itchy to try the layout on a
          >Micro.....might be able to get a...

          I'm sure Mr Bolger would have no trouble with assymetry per se.
          You'd know you were going too far here though, if he mentioned
          zealotry. ;-)

          Cheers
          Graeme
        • BllFs6@aol.com
          Hi Graeme Yeah, this boyancy and stability thing can certainly get more complex the longer one things about it no doubt. Certainly needs alot of work for
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 2, 2006
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            Hi Graeme


            Yeah, this boyancy and stability thing can certainly get more complex the
            longer one things about it no doubt. Certainly needs alot of work for sure.


            Fortunately, when push comes to shove, the WAY I would use such a beast, I
            would be pretty safe as long as the darn thing stayed together and
            floated.....upright but low in the water or on its side or even up side down....any of
            those would be tolerable for me....so my requirements are not as demanding as
            some...

            Now, if your cruising is more "serious" then yeah, get the stability and
            orientation issues worked out much better....

            Something did occur to me today thinking about such things.....if your cabin
            is fairly assymetric and depending on how much air it holds or how intact it
            is or how much foam you have in the walls/ceiling of the cabin and where it
            is and how much flotation
            you have on the "non-cabin" side, the assymetric cabin may offer another
            advantage. It may ONLY be stable upright....or in other words you turn it upside
            down and the cabin flotation flips it upright again...and even if it doesn't,
            it may provide enough "help" to make using your own body weight to "un
            turtle" the beast easier ....

            So, such a cabin may make a rollover just that....always a rollover and
            never a turtle situation....of course the cabin would probably make a rollover
            more probable.....but if it meant it could never turtle......thats a trade off
            I'd happily live with.


            take care


            Blll


            In a message dated 6/2/2006 11:03:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
            graeme19121984@... writes:

            There is probably a lot of positive bouyancy here if you do this,
            but carefully calculate your new centres of gravity and bouyancy,
            righting arms and so on for various circumstances. The foam weighs
            something, obviously, and so the hull COG has been lowered, which
            may add to performance when upright, but the capsised COB has been
            brought closer to the floor too. In fact they may be almost
            superimposed. Worse, with the weight of the other stuff in the boat
            contributing, on her beam ends the COG may actually be above the
            flooded COB ( relative to the floor of course). If masts are
            shipped, their bouyancy may prevent inversion, but the boat may not
            self right. If it turns turtle it may be in the most stable
            position :( or, depending on sea state, it may only be rescued with
            some effort.

            Calculation may show it's alright, but off the top of my head I
            can't think of anywhere Bolger shows flotation right down low. If it
            doesn't go from bilge to deck like in the quarters or bows perhaps,
            then it is shown chocked up against the deck underside right off the
            floor so when flooded the boat ought to sit stable in the correct
            orientation without manhandling to get it that way. It wont easily
            be tipped over by wave action before it is bailed out. I thought he
            put the foam off the floor to discourage rot and to allow space for
            things like oars or legs to be poked under there. Suttle.






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