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BW-Amherst-WJD

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  • dproasit
    Hello all We re after some thoughts from those who are into the type (BW) or are handy at interpreting the cartoons etc. Things like relative - cost, build
    Message 1 of 11 , May 21, 2006
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      Hello all
      We're after some thoughts from those who are into the type (BW) or are
      handy at interpreting the cartoons etc.
      Things like relative - cost, build complexity, build time, finished
      weight, and loading capacity for the above.
      Or should we attack the problem from the intended use end?
      -[Trailerable sailing camp cruiser for a couple for 7-10 day stints
      with occasional kids(grand) and dog for Protected waters generally
      East coast Aust. even top end and gulf, bay, estuary, river . Camp in
      while travelling, outboard to handlle strong currents, insect proof
      for up the creek]-
      We really like the BW (plenty of info on site) but are concerned that
      it may be a whisker small. Keep in mind I'm a couple of metres long
      and getting older a lot more quickly of late. Found a reasonable bit
      of info on WJD, but didn't know Amherst existed until saw recent
      posts-thanks Nels- and am now leaning towards it! Though there's still
      plenty of room for procrastinating and changing ones mind.
      Thoughts, guidance, even leading us up the creek will be appreciated.
      Thanks in advance - Darrell
    • Philip Smith
      The WhaleWatcher is bigger than the BirdWatcher and is along the same lines and functionality. Someone will be along shortly with a pointer to more
      Message 2 of 11 , May 21, 2006
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        The WhaleWatcher is bigger than the BirdWatcher and is
        along the same lines and functionality.

        Someone will be along shortly with a pointer to more
        WhaleWatcher information...

        In addition a short (or lengthy) note MAILED to Phil
        Bolger & Friends will result in a well considered
        reply from our hero, usually by return post the day of
        receipt.

        Phil Smith

        -
        > We really like the BW (plenty of info on site) but
        > are concerned that
        > it may be a whisker small. Keep in mind I'm a couple
        > of metres long
        > and getting older a lot more quickly of late. Found
        > a reasonable bit
        > of info on WJD, but didn't know Amherst existed
        > until saw recent
        > posts-thanks Nels- and am now leaning towards it!
        > Though there's still
        > plenty of room for procrastinating and changing ones
        > mind.
        > Thoughts, guidance, even leading us up the creek
        > will be appreciated.
        >

        __________________________________________________
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      • dproasit
        -Thanks Phil - May have to resort to your suggestion. I;ve posted a few times but don t seem to get many replies from those who have been there and done that.
        Message 3 of 11 , May 23, 2006
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          -Thanks Phil
          - May have to resort to your suggestion. I;ve posted a few times but
          don't seem to get many replies from those who have been there and done
          that. - Praps it's my communication style or lack thereof.
          Or do I have to big note myself to gain some credibility like letting
          the mob know that I've actually built a few boats (5) over the period
          88 - 02 and bought a couple of others. Haven't mentioned them b/c not
          Bolger, although 4 are very similiar ( 16 Ft. Pirouge, ply, epoxy, fg
          with spritsails. All were just tiddlers - 13-16Ft.
          The 1st was an old 60's fg ski boat found in a shed out the scrub.
          Only thing left was the hull and motor. Redecked it with ply, epoxy,
          fg as a cuddy cab fishing boat with split pvc pipe gunwhales fg
          over.Great for nets and boarding. Pulled the motor down and found it
          in better nick than most newer jobs a few months old (good steel in
          them there days-1966 60hp merc) Built a single axle trailer for it
          [*note - built, not got built] and used it for about 3 years before
          flogging it off and replacing with tinny.
          The 16 Ft Pirougues I built over a couple of years for the local louts
          to use to to try and keep them occupied and off the streets for a
          while with varying degrees of success. Even got them to do some
          artwork on the sails and hulls before they got to sail them.
          The boats now live at the local TAFE college as I do a bit of part
          time teaching in ag, hort and trying to to look after the rabble that
          nobody else want's to deal with.
          Probably in a couple of weeks we'll take them (boats) out west 200 odd
          k's and do a bit of work with one of the blackfella mobs (murris) on a
          few good sized lagoons they've got. Of course they'll have to do a bit
          of maintenance before they earn the right to play.
          Enough of the rot. See you later
          Darrell


          In bolger@yahoogroups.com,
          Philip Smith <pbs@...> wrote:
          >
          > The WhaleWatcher is bigger than the BirdWatcher and is
          > along the same lines and functionality.
          >
          > Someone will be along shortly with a pointer to more
          > WhaleWatcher information...
          >
          > In addition a short (or lengthy) note MAILED to Phil
          > Bolger & Friends will result in a well considered
          > reply from our hero, usually by return post the day of
          > receipt.
          >
          > Phil Smith
          >
        • graeme19121984
          Hi Darrell, ... are ... Some of the Birdwatcher builders, past and present have offered breakdowns and logs of their experience. Have you seen these? ... in
          Message 4 of 11 , May 23, 2006
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            Hi Darrell,

            here's my 2 cents:

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dproasit" <knic0014@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello all
            > We're after some thoughts from those who are into the type (BW) or
            are
            > handy at interpreting the cartoons etc.
            > Things like relative - cost, build complexity, build time, finished
            > weight, and loading capacity for the above.

            Some of the Birdwatcher builders, past and present have offered
            breakdowns and logs of their experience. Have you seen these?


            > Or should we attack the problem from the intended use end?
            > -[Trailerable sailing camp cruiser for a couple for 7-10 day stints
            > with occasional kids(grand) and dog for Protected waters generally
            > East coast Aust. even top end and gulf, bay, estuary, river . Camp
            in
            > while travelling, outboard to handlle strong currents, insect proof
            > for up the creek]-

            For protected waters the BW1&2, WJD, AG, and WW etc. would all do.
            Probably, for your intended cruises the BW would suffice in size.
            However, you mention the top end and I'm not conviced that BW type
            cabins are the most comfortable for the humid tropics. Sprawling
            under a good sun-shade on an open deck exposed to any cooling breeze
            may be more comfortable. Another top end consideration is the
            temptation provided by all the coral reefs and islands to venture
            offshore and coastwise . Most times a BW would be safe enough, or
            would it? Bolger wrote he would not be much bothered if he found
            himself way offshore in a Martha Jane. Long Micro also might suit.

            Cheers
            Graeme
          • Greg Flemming
            Hello Darrell, Well I didn t reply because I felt that I didn t know enough about the subject, even though I am a good way through building a Birdwatcher
            Message 5 of 11 , May 24, 2006
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              Hello Darrell,

              Well I didn't reply because I felt that I didn't know enough about
              the subject, even though I am a good way through building a
              Birdwatcher spin-off - a Michalak Scram Pram. There were quite a few
              questions in your post ; many of which I certainly just can't
              comment on because I just don't know. But that may explain why
              there wasn't too much a response from Group members??

              I am, however, very keen on the Amherst Galley, but as a larger
              group boat, rather than as a camping boat for a smaller family group
              (or whatever). AG would not seem to be the way to go for that use
              but the WDJ would. I have a reservation about that boat - the
              conventional cockpit, but in the light of Graeme's comments I guess
              WDJ would be the best of both worlds!

              WDJ is still a very interesting boat with water ballast and a motor
              well - neither of which are on AG and therefore, why not go for that
              with no need to modify the boat for your purposes? By the way, there
              is an article in a Wooden Boat by Mr Bolger about water ballast and
              WDJ and St Valery (another great boat!) ; now that article is very
              imformative and interesting (can't remember the issue No - I have it
              at work so will add that when I get back to that office on Friday.

              I guess WW is a bigger boat but WDJ maybe a much better overall
              design? Mr Bolger seems to feel that it represents his latest
              thinking on the type - well, later that WW, anyway.


              Greg F

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hi Darrell,
              >
              > here's my 2 cents:
              >
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dproasit" <knic0014@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello all
              > > We're after some thoughts from those who are into the type (BW)
              or
              > are
              > > handy at interpreting the cartoons etc.
              > > Things like relative - cost, build complexity, build time,
              finished
              > > weight, and loading capacity for the above.
              >
              > Some of the Birdwatcher builders, past and present have offered
              > breakdowns and logs of their experience. Have you seen these?
              >
              >
              > > Or should we attack the problem from the intended use end?
              > > -[Trailerable sailing camp cruiser for a couple for 7-10 day
              stints
              > > with occasional kids(grand) and dog for Protected waters
              generally
              > > East coast Aust. even top end and gulf, bay, estuary, river .
              Camp
              > in
              > > while travelling, outboard to handlle strong currents, insect
              proof
              > > for up the creek]-
              >
              > For protected waters the BW1&2, WJD, AG, and WW etc. would all
              do.
              > Probably, for your intended cruises the BW would suffice in size.
              > However, you mention the top end and I'm not conviced that BW type
              > cabins are the most comfortable for the humid tropics. Sprawling
              > under a good sun-shade on an open deck exposed to any cooling
              breeze
              > may be more comfortable. Another top end consideration is the
              > temptation provided by all the coral reefs and islands to venture
              > offshore and coastwise . Most times a BW would be safe enough, or
              > would it? Bolger wrote he would not be much bothered if he found
              > himself way offshore in a Martha Jane. Long Micro also might suit.
              >
              > Cheers
              > Graeme
              >
            • GarthAB
              Also take a gander at Michalak s Caprice and Cormorant. I like them for their water ballast, where the Amherst Galley, I think I recall, has none -- it is
              Message 6 of 11 , May 24, 2006
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                Also take a gander at Michalak's Caprice and Cormorant. I like them
                for their water ballast, where the Amherst Galley, I think I recall,
                has none -- it is designed to use crew weight inside as ballast. That
                only works to a point -- say, 50 degrees of roll, whereupon the crew
                slides downhill, loses all value as ballast, and makes the former
                "side" the new "bottom."

                http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/sail.htm

                Garth
                (happy Cormorant owner)
              • dproasit
                Thanks Graham Yeah there s heaps of stuff on BW we ve found onsite. Enough to get a real good understanding. There s a reasonable bit of info on WJD/WW but I
                Message 7 of 11 , May 28, 2006
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                  Thanks Graham
                  Yeah there's heaps of stuff on BW we've found onsite. Enough to get a
                  real good understanding. There's a reasonable bit of info on WJD/WW
                  but I have'nt been able to find anything on loading capacity. Very
                  little info on AG.
                  As for Top End, timing would be important. I lived there for 3 years
                  and really developed an appreciation for a good breeze. I think that
                  when it came to sprawling there's a lot of vacant coastline available
                  up there and from the comments and readings it aseems that there is
                  plenty of air circulation on BW types whilst sailing.
                  Still looking for comparisons/% between the three with regard to cost,
                  complexity, build time.
                  Have found a BW about 4 hours drive from here which am trying to
                  organize a look at. Bound to be a decider.
                  Thanks again - Darrell
                • dproasit
                  Hello Greg Don t worry, if you re half way thru building you probably know a lot more than most. Particularly HOW TO MAKE A DECISION. Why are you not keen
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 28, 2006
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                    Hello Greg
                    Don't worry, if you're half way thru building you probably know a lot
                    more than most. Particularly "HOW TO MAKE A DECISION."
                    Why are you not keen on the AG? - Is it the lack of ballast without a
                    large crew? If so do you think extra fuel/water/batteries and stuff
                    down low for cruising would be sufficient.
                    On WJD is conventional cockpit integral or could the raised deck be
                    run fully aft? What reservations?
                    If you can find that article it would be great to see. Give us a yell
                    as to where you are hiding it on site.
                    Thank you - Darrell
                  • dproasit
                    Hello Garth Checked out Caprice and Cormorant but at the moment am stuck on the BW type raised decks. Especially when run from stem to stern. Been stuck up
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 28, 2006
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                      Hello Garth
                      Checked out Caprice and Cormorant but at the moment am stuck on the BW
                      type raised decks. Especially when run from stem to stern. Been stuck
                      up enough insect ridden creeks and wet weather to want to avoid both,
                      by design, if possible.
                      Mentioned in previous post about extra ballast (fuel, water, batteries
                      and stuff down low) for longer cruising in AG. Do you reckon this
                      would do the job?
                      Thank you - Darrell
                    • Greg Flemming
                      Hello Darrell, Actually, I am very keen on AG, but I think that boat is at it s best as a group boat, just as it was designed ; when people see it as a boat
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 28, 2006
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                        Hello Darrell,

                        Actually, I am very keen on AG, but I think that boat is at it's best
                        as a group boat, just as it was designed ; when people see it as a
                        boat that can be used with a motor I think the intergrity of the
                        design may be compromised to some extent. My point there is that if
                        this is the case, it may be better to go for the WDJ design, from the
                        outset, rather than trying to adapt AG.

                        The article that I mentioned was in Wooden Boat No. 157 of Dec 2000. I
                        have recently seen a video of a WDJ and there doesn't seem to be a
                        sense of a clear and open interior ; it looks quite broken up with
                        bulkheads which detracts from the Birdwatcher concept, I feel. But
                        that is a rather superficial opinion based solely on a video and the
                        drawings ; I guess you would need to see the real thing before being
                        able to make a decision about that. But on paper, the AG doesn't seem
                        to suffer from those problems.

                        I think the AG would be a fine boat for protected waters with a large
                        crew of around 8-10 people, and in that context I don't think
                        stability would be an issue, at all.

                        No, AG seems a great boat to me, it appears to have real integrity.

                        Greg F
                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dproasit" <knic0014@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Greg
                        > Don't worry, if you're half way thru building you probably know a lot
                        > more than most. Particularly "HOW TO MAKE A DECISION."
                        > Why are you not keen on the AG? - Is it the lack of ballast without a
                        > large crew? If so do you think extra fuel/water/batteries and stuff
                        > down low for cruising would be sufficient.
                        > On WJD is conventional cockpit integral or could the raised deck be
                        > run fully aft? What reservations?
                        > If you can find that article it would be great to see. Give us a yell
                        > as to where you are hiding it on site.
                        > Thank you - Darrell
                        >
                      • dproasit
                        Hello Greg I get the message about a motor on AG. Also had similar thoughts on interior of WDJ but will check it out again. Thanks - Darrell ... best as a
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 1, 2006
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                          Hello Greg
                          I get the message about a motor on AG.

                          Also had similar thoughts on interior of WDJ but will check
                          it out again.

                          Thanks - Darrell

                          > Actually, I am very keen on AG, but I think that boat is at it's
                          best as a group boat, just as it was designed ; when people see it as
                          a boat that can be used with a motor I think the intergrity of the
                          design may be compromised to some extent. My point there is that if
                          this is the case, it may be better to go for the WDJ design, from the
                          outset, rather than trying to adapt AG.
                          The article that I mentioned was in Wooden Boat No. 157 of Dec 2000. I
                          have recently seen a video of a WDJ and there doesn't seem to be a
                          sense of a clear and open interior ; it looks quite broken up with
                          bulkheads which detracts from the Birdwatcher concept, I feel. But
                          that is a rather superficial opinion based solely on a video and the
                          drawings ; I guess you would need to see the real thing before being
                          able to make a decision about that. But on paper, the AG doesn't seem
                          to suffer from those problems.
                          I think the AG would be a fine boat for protected waters with a large
                          crew of around 8-10 people, and in that context I don't think
                          stability would be an issue, at all.
                          No, AG seems a great boat to me, it appears to have real integrity.

                          Greg F
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