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Re: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood

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  • Bruce Hallman
    ... I should have looked before clicking send but the new version of Freeship, according to the website, has the new feature Export boundary coordinates of
    Message 1 of 19 , May 4, 2006
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      > > forward to giving it a try. One question for you, though, is how
      > > expanded panel dimensions are output from the program.

      I should have looked before clicking 'send' but the new version of
      Freeship, according to the website, has the new feature

      "Export boundary coordinates of developed plates to textfile"

      Which seems to fit the bill.

      http://www.freeship.org/
    • Michael Collins
      Chris, I ve had some pretty interesting results using arcs or arches. Arcs can be manipulated geometrically because their explicit mathematical expression is
      Message 2 of 19 , May 4, 2006
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        Chris,
        I've had some pretty interesting results using arcs or arches. Arcs can
        be manipulated geometrically because their explicit mathematical
        expression is relatively simple compared to NURBS. Arcs are simple to
        loft. All you need to know is the radius of curvature and the
        vertual center of radius. Using a compass or a string, you can draw
        your arc.

        I started using arcs as a means of analyzing other designers' work. For
        example, looking at Phil Bolger's Tortis and Brick in the profile and
        using the waterline as the chord, you see an approximate arc with a
        camber of about 10% of the chord below the water line. I reduced this
        arc to a single number, expressed as the arc Tan ( Camber/ (1/2
        chord)). By looking at several designs, I found that an arc of about 10
        degrees in the profile of the canoe body is characteristic of a
        relatively slow boat capable of carrying a large load.

        If chord is 10.7639 units in length, camber is 1.0, then I would call
        this a 10.5258 degree arc. By naming it in degrees it is easier to
        visuallize, since the angle is close to the entry angle.

        These arcs' geometry can be easily manipulated with a calculator - Easy
        to design with and loft in cardstock or plywood. I use a spreadsheet
        and a caculator for complex designs. The camber of an arc in a plywood
        pannel can be established from the arc in the profile and the angle of
        the pannel from the vertical. For example, say you choose the arc for
        the profile view, yet the topside is flared out 6 degrees. The profile
        arc can then be rotated through 6 degrees using triginometry to find the
        camber of the arc required on the plywood pannel. Now, you need to
        know the chord for the arc in the plywood pannel.

        Say you have a plan view with an arch for the side of a scow. This
        waterline arc effects the same pannel we were just discussing. This
        time we rotate the plan view arc until it's camber is perpendicular to
        the camber of the arc we just rotated from the profile. The length of
        the perimeter of the plan view arch rotated will give you the length of
        the chord you would need to loft the pannel for the topside.

        Sorry if this is confusing. It seems a bit complex to be describing by
        text. Hopefully it gives you some idea about the concept of designing
        with arcs. I'll try answering questions about the technique if you have
        any.

        Michael Collins

        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Collins
        Chris, I ve had some pretty interesting results using arcs or arches. Arcs can be manipulated geometrically because their explicit mathematical expression is
        Message 3 of 19 , May 5, 2006
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          Chris,
          I've had some pretty interesting results using arcs or arches. Arcs can
          be manipulated geometrically because their explicit mathematical
          expression is relatively simple compared to NURBS. Arcs are simple to
          loft. All you need to know is the radius of curvature and the
          vertual center of radius. Using a compass or a string, you can draw
          your arc.

          I started using arcs as a means of analyzing other designers' work. For
          example, looking at Phil Bolger's Tortis and Brick in the profile and
          using the waterline as the chord, you see an approximate arc with a
          camber of about 10% of the chord below the water line. I reduced this
          arc to a single number, expressed as the arc Tan ( Camber/ (1/2
          chord)). By looking at several designs, I found that an arc of about 10
          degrees in the profile of the canoe body is characteristic of a
          relatively slow boat capable of carrying a large load.

          If chord is 10.7639 units in length, camber is 1.0, then I would call
          this a 10.5258 degree arc. By naming it in degrees it is easier to
          visuallize, since the angle is close to the entry angle.

          These arcs' geometry can be easily manipulated with a calculator - Easy
          to design with and loft in cardstock or plywood. I use a spreadsheet
          and a caculator for complex designs. The camber of an arc in a plywood
          pannel can be established from the arc in the profile and the angle of
          the pannel from the vertical. For example, say you choose the arc for
          the profile view, yet the topside is flared out 6 degrees. The profile
          arc can then be rotated through 6 degrees using triginometry to find the
          camber of the arc required on the plywood pannel. Now, you need to
          know the chord for the arc in the plywood pannel.

          Say you have a plan view with an arch for the side of a scow. This
          waterline arc effects the same pannel we were just discussing. This
          time we rotate the plan view arc until it's camber is perpendicular to
          the camber of the arc we just rotated from the profile. The length of
          the perimeter of the plan view arch rotated will give you the length of
          the chord you would need to loft the pannel for the topside.

          Sorry if this is confusing. It seems a bit complex to be describing by
          text. Hopefully it gives you some idea about the concept of designing
          with arcs. I'll try answering questions about the technique if you have
          any.

          Michael Collins



          Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:

          > I am looking for ways to do it with pencil and paper. I have been playing
          > with hull.exe for a while and it's nice, but I like being able to do
          > things
          > the non-electric way.
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
          > Bruce Hallman
          > Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:51 PM
          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
          >
          >
          > > From: "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>
          > > Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
          >
          > There are two issues,
          >
          > (1) the strength/durability of plywood materials, and
          > (2) the topology of developed shapes / the curvature of plywood.
          >
          > For (2), the development of curved shapes by bending flat sheets,
          > you can skip the book theory altogether and experiment directly
          > with computer programs that automatically take care of the mathatics
          > of bending flat plates.
          >
          > I especially like the opensource software FreeShip.
          > [Also, I like the Hulls.exe software.] Both of these
          > allow you to easily experiment with the bending of flat plates
          > into curved surfaces.
          >
          > My personal favorite is to print the experimental hulls onto
          > thin cardboard, and use sissors and tape to make models.
          >
          > After just a little practice you can get from an idea in your head
          > to a 3D scale model in about one hour.
          >
          > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/71601266/
          >
          >
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          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
          > dead horses
          > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
          > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
          > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
          > Fax: (978) 282-1349
          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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        • moose2much
          Hello Everybody, I have tried several of the DXF viewers and could not get any to work. They all seemed to be teasers for paid products. The best results I ve
          Message 4 of 19 , May 6, 2006
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            Hello Everybody,

            I have tried several of the DXF viewers and could not get any to
            work. They all seemed to be teasers for paid products. The best
            results I've had so far is with OpenOffice Draw available free from
            www.OpenOffice.Org I need to work with it more. Started working with
            Plyboats and then FreeShip.

            Somehow I was able to make Plyboats work in XPpro and print to a
            parallel laser printer. Even have an icon on the desktop that works.

            From and Plyboats Email to Ray Clark:

            I had some problems with the DEMO not accepting mouse and cursor
            movement when I tried to run the program from the XP command promp.
            I extracted the ZIP some other way in XP, maybe using XP's extractor
            and an icon was placed on the desktop and the program now works.
            This may help if someone else has the same problem

            Plyboats running in whatever mysterious way actually takes much
            more time to execute calculations than FreeShip.

            Roger Van Arnam
            Micanopy Beach Florida


            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
            <jon@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Bruce,
            >
            > ...snip...
            > > I also agree that hull.exe is nice. Though, FreeShip
            > > has hull.exe beat ten times over when it comes to modeling and
            > > visualization, key features when prototyping.
            >
            > Several years ago I used Plyboats, but it never ported quite right
            to
            > W2K, and since it has a lot of limitations (only two chines, among
            > others), I gave up on it. I've just downloaded Free!ship and look
            > forward to giving it a try. One question for you, though, is how
            > expanded panel dimensions are output from the program. Do I need
            > some other application that can read .dxf files, or can I just
            print
            > out the panel dimensions from Free!ship? Will it translate
            bulkhead
            > locations onto the panels?
            >
            > I was thinking of starting with the offsets for Cartoon 40, scaling
            > the length at 125% per PCB's suggestion, and getting panel shapes
            and
            > dimensions from the application. Think this will work? If it
            does,
            > it would allow me to assemble the sides and bulkheads, then use a
            jig
            > to hold everything square, rather than making critical measurements
            > on the jig, erecting the bulkheads, then spiling the panel shapes.
            >
            > > I have the personal theory that to get a boat design 'right' you
            > > need to go through many many itierations by trial and error.
            > ...snip...
            >
            > I agree, and think it's true even using the software tools
            > available. Using Plyboats, I made many cardboard models of
            different
            > hull shapes, including a lot of sharpies and box-keel designs. It
            > was always interesting to see just how bad a model could look when
            > the wire-frame in the software looked so good. Slab-side sharpies
            in
            > particular can look fine on the screen, but not so great in "the
            > flesh." Part of the problem was Plyboats' limitation of fixing the
            > lowest point of the sheer at the point of maximum beam.
            >
            > Jon Kolb
            > www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
            >
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