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Looking for One Great Plan

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  • Ivan Ogburn
    My name is Ivan. I am a long time woodworker, builder and engineer, but I have yet to attempt building a wooden boat. Originally, I started looking for a small
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 6, 2006
      My name is Ivan.

      I am a long time woodworker, builder and engineer, but I have yet to
      attempt building a wooden boat.

      Originally, I started looking for a small factory made cruiser, that
      I could use on the lakes in Southeast Texas to day cruise and that
      would have a small galley, head and room for two adults. But after
      years of searching through new and used boats, power boats and
      sailboats I found that either the boats that seemed to fit my needs
      were too large or too expensive (usually both!) or the boats I could
      (or wanted to) afford did not offer the cabin size I was looking
      for. Then I started looking at boat plans and quickly realized that
      I probably did not have the experience to construct a large wooden
      power boat and that old boat engines can be more expensive than old
      boats! So I have come to rest at Pocket Cruiser sailboats.

      My question to the forum is what is a good Bolger pocket cruiser
      plan for a first timer with some experience? I am looking for a
      trailerable boat (16' – 24' long), with a cabin (head/galley/bunks)
      that would be relatively inexpensive to build, require moderate
      skills, be easy to sail and have an overall classic shippy look.
      This would be a long term project that would hopefully culminate in
      a lake worthy boat!
    • Patrick Crockett
      Chebacco. Note that building a wood boat (even plywood, even using Home Depot-grade lumber) will probably be more expensive than buying a used fiberglass boat.
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 7, 2006
        Chebacco.

        Note that building a wood boat (even plywood, even using Home
        Depot-grade lumber) will probably be more expensive than buying a used
        fiberglass boat.

        Patrick

        Ivan Ogburn wrote:

        >My name is Ivan.
        >
        >I am a long time woodworker, builder and engineer, but I have yet to
        >attempt building a wooden boat.
        >
        >Originally, I started looking for a small factory made cruiser, that
        >I could use on the lakes in Southeast Texas to day cruise and that
        >would have a small galley, head and room for two adults. But after
        >years of searching through new and used boats, power boats and
        >sailboats I found that either the boats that seemed to fit my needs
        >were too large or too expensive (usually both!) or the boats I could
        >(or wanted to) afford did not offer the cabin size I was looking
        >for. Then I started looking at boat plans and quickly realized that
        >I probably did not have the experience to construct a large wooden
        >power boat and that old boat engines can be more expensive than old
        >boats! So I have come to rest at Pocket Cruiser sailboats.
        >
        >My question to the forum is what is a good Bolger pocket cruiser
        >plan for a first timer with some experience? I am looking for a
        >trailerable boat (16' – 24' long), with a cabin (head/galley/bunks)
        >that would be relatively inexpensive to build, require moderate
        >skills, be easy to sail and have an overall classic shippy look.
        >This would be a long term project that would hopefully culminate in
        >a lake worthy boat!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Bolger rules!!!
        >- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
        >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
        >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
        >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
        >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
        >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Peter Lenihan
        ... used ... All very true! Equally true too is the very thin to non-existant possibility of finding a production fiberglass boat that comes anywhere even
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 7, 2006
          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
          >
          > Chebacco.
          >
          > Note that building a wood boat (even plywood, even using Home
          > Depot-grade lumber) will probably be more expensive than buying a
          used
          > fiberglass boat.
          >
          > Patrick

          All very true! Equally true too is the very thin to non-existant
          possibility of finding a production fiberglass boat that comes
          anywhere even close to the drop dead gorgeous styling of a Chebacco :-)
          I'll send the choice for a Chebacco !

          Peter L.
        • Peter Lenihan
          ... to ... that ... could ... (head/galley/bunks) ... in ... Depending on how you define long term and relatively inexpensive other options present
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 7, 2006
            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Ivan Ogburn" <aogburn1@...> wrote:
            >
            > My name is Ivan.
            >
            > I am a long time woodworker, builder and engineer, but I have yet
            to
            > attempt building a wooden boat.
            >
            > Originally, I started looking for a small factory made cruiser,
            that
            > I could use on the lakes in Southeast Texas to day cruise and that
            > would have a small galley, head and room for two adults. But after
            > years of searching through new and used boats, power boats and
            > sailboats I found that either the boats that seemed to fit my needs
            > were too large or too expensive (usually both!) or the boats I
            could
            > (or wanted to) afford did not offer the cabin size I was looking
            > for. Then I started looking at boat plans and quickly realized that
            > I probably did not have the experience to construct a large wooden
            > power boat and that old boat engines can be more expensive than old
            > boats! So I have come to rest at Pocket Cruiser sailboats.
            >
            > My question to the forum is what is a good Bolger pocket cruiser
            > plan for a first timer with some experience? I am looking for a
            > trailerable boat (16' – 24' long), with a cabin
            (head/galley/bunks)
            > that would be relatively inexpensive to build, require moderate
            > skills, be easy to sail and have an overall classic shippy look.
            > This would be a long term project that would hopefully culminate
            in
            > a lake worthy boat!


            Depending on how you define"long term" and "relatively inexpensive"
            other options present themselves beside the Chebacco previously
            mentioned.
            Blueberry
            Micro
            Long Micro
            Birdwatcher
            Martha Jane
            Jesse Cooper

            All but the first one will challenge your sense of"overall classic
            shippy look" yet remain very much lake worthy!

            Another thought/suggestion may also be a Stevenson "Weekender".Oh
            yeah,I know it is not a Bolger and I am risking ex-communication
            from the Church of Phil, but it does have what I am guessing are the
            classic shippy looks you seek.

            A Redmond "Elver" may also fill the bill if you can live with a zero
            tolerance for modifications/alterations/personal building
            prejudices/ etc approach from the designer.....

            If this is your first boat, then perhaps it is not too unfair to
            further suggest building anyone of these(or any other for that
            matter) and to just use it. This first boat will be a pleasent and
            rewarding building experience,certainly, but more importantly, will
            serve as the platform from which you will discover and latter
            elaborate more definately your own personal specifics/needs
            regarding what YOU find to be truly essential for your pleasure on
            the water.That's what the second boat is for :-)

            Happy shopping !


            Sincerely,

            Peter Lenihan,off to ye olde confessional,yet again, for untold bits
            of blasphamy and sins various,from along the shores of the
            St.Lawrence.........
          • Bruce Hallman
            Also consider a Micro Navigator, though perhaps just little too small for your wishes. http://community.webshots.com/photo/238506707/1238507709051159125iuLqLY
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 7, 2006
              Also consider a Micro Navigator, though perhaps just little too small
              for your wishes.

              http://community.webshots.com/photo/238506707/1238507709051159125iuLqLY
            • Ivan Ogburn
              Great boat and from your pictures it looks like one heck of a story! :) Ivan ... small ...
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 7, 2006
                Great boat and from your pictures it looks like one heck of a story! :)

                Ivan
                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                >
                > Also consider a Micro Navigator, though perhaps just little too
                small
                > for your wishes.
                >
                >
                http://community.webshots.com/photo/238506707/1238507709051159125iuLqLY
                >
              • Ivan Ogburn
                All great suggestions - Thanks. I am off to do more research. OBTW - I did consider the Weekender, but it looked a little claustrophobic in the cabin! Ivan ...
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 7, 2006
                  All great suggestions - Thanks.
                  I am off to do more research. OBTW - I did consider the Weekender,
                  but it looked a little claustrophobic in the cabin!

                  Ivan

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Depending on how you define"long term" and "relatively
                  inexpensive" ..............from which you will discover and latter
                  > elaborate more definately your own personal specifics/needs
                  > regarding what YOU find to be truly essential for your pleasure on
                  > the water.That's what the second boat is for :-)
                  >
                  > Happy shopping !
                  >
                  >
                  > Sincerely,
                  >
                  > Peter Lenihan,off to ye olde confessional,yet again, for untold
                  bits
                  > of blasphamy and sins various,from along the shores of the
                  > St.Lawrence.........
                  >
                • pvanderwaart
                  Personal taste counts for so much, it s hard to offer specific suggestions. A lot depends on what you like in appearance. For pure function, I think the Long
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 7, 2006
                    Personal taste counts for so much, it's hard to offer specific
                    suggestions. A lot depends on what you like in appearance.

                    For pure function, I think the Long Micro is pretty good. It has a
                    really useable interior and probably sails a lot better than a Micro.
                    You may not like the boxy styling, though. PCB thinks it's a better
                    return on the effort and investment than the Micro.

                    An interesting step up is the SeaBird '86. There is nice gaff rig
                    version, so don't be put off by the lug rig. Also a Navigator adaptation.

                    If something really salty is required, take a look at Blueberry, a
                    small gaff cutter.

                    Once upon a time, PCB might have suggested the Martha Jane sharpie.
                    Today, I think he would suggest Birdwatcher II instead. Interesting
                    functionality, but not in the tradtional and salty category. If you
                    like the sharpie type, the 20' Wish II has potential.

                    There are several versions of the Chebacco. I get the sense you are
                    looking at more a cabin boat than she was designed to be, though
                    possibly you could get intrigued by the big cabin version.

                    Peter
                  • Bruce Hallman
                    ... You seem very similar to me, (less ten boats). I strongly recommend that you start small before getting big, as this strategy will, in the end, save both
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 7, 2006
                      > I am a long time woodworker, builder and engineer, but I have yet to
                      > attempt building a wooden boat.

                      You seem very similar to me, (less ten boats).
                      I strongly recommend that you start small before getting big,
                      as this strategy will, in the end, save both time and cost.
                      Make your mistakes on a small boat, and better yet,
                      on boat models, before you dive in to a big project.

                      > My question to the forum is what is a good Bolger pocket cruiser
                      > plan for a first timer with some experience? I am looking for a
                      > trailerable boat (16' – 24' long), with a cabin (head/galley/bunks)

                      A dedicated head and galley is a tight fit in a boat this small, and curtains
                      and a portable toilet, and a dual use space with a campstore to serve as
                      your galley is what you should expect in this size boat.

                      > that would be relatively inexpensive to build, require moderate
                      > skills, be easy to sail and have an overall classic shippy look.

                      Having built both boxy and curvy boats, my experience (which may
                      differ from other people) is that *if* you can accept cosmetic defects,
                      that ease of construction is about the same for both boxy and curvy.
                      So if you want a curvy 'shippy' shape, go for it!
                      [Start with a cardboard model.]
                    • Nels
                      ... Also I would get ahold of Dynamites book Build the New Instant Boats . http://instantboats.com/ If I were planning to build a Chebacco I would build a
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 7, 2006
                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
                        > I strongly recommend that you start small before getting big,
                        > as this strategy will, in the end, save both time and cost.
                        > Make your mistakes on a small boat, and better yet,
                        > on boat models, before you dive in to a big project.

                        Also I would get ahold of Dynamites book "Build the New Instant
                        Boats".

                        http://instantboats.com/

                        If I were planning to build a Chebacco I would build a Nymph first
                        to test out the tack and tape method. If building a Long Micro I
                        would start with an Elegant Punt. Then you already have a tender for
                        the larger boat - using the same building method - only on a smaller
                        scale.

                        I also love the 25 foot Chebacco and the full cabin one that Bolger
                        describes as a motorsailer. I think a pilothouse on the 25 footer,
                        like on the off-shore version of the regular Chebacco would work as
                        well.

                        Be aware however that boatbuilding is highly addictive!

                        "The desire to build a boat ... begins as a little cloud on a serene
                        horizon. It ends by covering the whole sky so that you can think of
                        nothing else." Arthur Ransome

                        Nels
                      • RPJ3@AOL.COM
                        IVAN: I know nothing (my wife says I should stop here) about lakes in Texas ... but in Tennessee, a sail is either a sunshade (poor one, too) a nuisance, or a
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 7, 2006
                          IVAN: I know nothing (my wife says I should stop here) about lakes in Texas
                          ... but in Tennessee, a sail is either a sunshade (poor one, too) a nuisance,
                          or a danger. If you are not already an experienced sailor (using sails),
                          I'd suggest talking to a number of people already sailing on that lake(s) ...
                          and if you can't find any, then don't be a pioneer.

                          So far as building a boat - suggest you go slow - build a small rowboat /
                          small motor runabout first ... if it is any good you can sell it for MONEY after
                          you play with it for a summer. Otherwise ... just the knowledge gained will
                          save you MUCH on the next boat you build. When hoisting things other than a
                          sail, I sometimes reminiss about the many idiot mistakes I made on building
                          dinks that saved my skin when building a double sized sister boat.

                          But build something - Bolger has plans for a very nice peero(?) ...


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Kenneth Grome
                          ... There are several other designers with good boats. John Welsford has some nice classic shippy looking boats ... Penguin is one that may match your
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 9, 2006
                            > I am looking for a trailerable boat (16' – 24' long), with a cabin
                            > that would be relatively inexpensive to build, require moderate
                            > skills, be easy to sail and have an overall classic shippy look.

                            There are several other designers with good boats. John Welsford has some nice "classic shippy" looking boats ... Penguin is one that may match your desires.

                            :)

                            Kenneth Grome
                            Bagacay Boat Works
                          • mannthree
                            ... Are there any pictures around of Wish II. I ve had a qick look around all the Bolger sites but cant seem to find any, Regards, John Mann ... adaptation.
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 9, 2006
                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
                              >Peter,

                              Are there any pictures around of Wish II. I've had a qick look around
                              all the Bolger sites but cant seem to find any,

                              Regards,

                              John Mann


                              > Personal taste counts for so much, it's hard to offer specific
                              > suggestions. A lot depends on what you like in appearance.
                              >
                              > For pure function, I think the Long Micro is pretty good. It has a
                              > really useable interior and probably sails a lot better than a Micro.
                              > You may not like the boxy styling, though. PCB thinks it's a better
                              > return on the effort and investment than the Micro.
                              >
                              > An interesting step up is the SeaBird '86. There is nice gaff rig
                              > version, so don't be put off by the lug rig. Also a Navigator
                              adaptation.
                              >
                              > If something really salty is required, take a look at Blueberry, a
                              > small gaff cutter.
                              >
                              > Once upon a time, PCB might have suggested the Martha Jane sharpie.
                              > Today, I think he would suggest Birdwatcher II instead. Interesting
                              > functionality, but not in the tradtional and salty category. If you
                              > like the sharpie type, the 20' Wish II has potential.
                              >
                              > There are several versions of the Chebacco. I get the sense you are
                              > looking at more a cabin boat than she was designed to be, though
                              > possibly you could get intrigued by the big cabin version.
                              >
                              > Peter
                              >
                            • Peter Lenihan
                              ... around ... Hi John, If I recall correctly,Wish II was but a speculative design and remains unfinshed/unbuilt. The only place I know to see a drawing is in
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 9, 2006
                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@...> wrote:
                                > Are there any pictures around of Wish II. I've had a qick look
                                around
                                > all the Bolger sites but cant seem to find any,

                                Hi John,

                                If I recall correctly,Wish II was but a speculative design and
                                remains unfinshed/unbuilt. The only place I know to see a drawing is
                                in 30 Odd Boats.
                                Perhaps some kind sole with a)the book,b)a scanner and c) some
                                time, will kindly post it somewhere like Bolger Cartoons or Bolger
                                study plans :-)

                                Sincerely,

                                Peter Lenihan
                              • pvanderwaart
                                ... Bolger presented this design in MAIB one month. There is a version not shown in 30-Odd which has a conventional cockpit. One was built by a man who sailed
                                Message 15 of 17 , Apr 9, 2006
                                  > If I recall correctly,Wish II was but a speculative design and
                                  > remains unfinshed/unbuilt. The only place I know to see a drawing is
                                  > in 30 Odd Boats.

                                  Bolger presented this design in MAIB one month. There is a version not
                                  shown in 30-Odd which has a conventional cockpit. One was built by a
                                  man who sailed down the Mississippis in it with his daughter. I think
                                  quite a lot of the distance was done under power which is typical of
                                  river work. The flat-bottomed sharpies is probably better under power
                                  than a round-bottom boat would be.

                                  Estheticly, this is a very severe design, with vertical sides, stem,
                                  and transom, large leeboards, and a cat yawl rig. PCB offered paint
                                  schemes to fool the eye.
                                • mannthree
                                  ... Thank you both for the info, Regards, John If I recall correctly,Wish II was but a speculative design and
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Apr 9, 2006
                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Peter and Peter,

                                    Thank you both for the info,

                                    Regards,

                                    John

                                    If I recall correctly,Wish II was but a speculative design and
                                    > > remains unfinshed/unbuilt. The only place I know to see a drawing is
                                    > > in 30 Odd Boats.
                                    >
                                    > Bolger presented this design in MAIB one month. There is a version not
                                    > shown in 30-Odd which has a conventional cockpit. One was built by a
                                    > man who sailed down the Mississippis in it with his daughter. I think
                                    > quite a lot of the distance was done under power which is typical of
                                    > river work. The flat-bottomed sharpies is probably better under power
                                    > than a round-bottom boat would be.
                                    >
                                    > Estheticly, this is a very severe design, with vertical sides, stem,
                                    > and transom, large leeboards, and a cat yawl rig. PCB offered paint
                                    > schemes to fool the eye.
                                    >
                                  • Philip Smith
                                    The Martha Jane should do what you want. I ve got one and it s a nice cruiser. I m planning on powering the Champlain Canal in May. Bolger has modified the
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Apr 11, 2006
                                      The Martha Jane should do what you want. I've got one and it's a nice cruiser. I'm planning on powering the Champlain Canal in May.

                                      Bolger has modified the design to include a raised house top, outside ballast, lee boards with positive fore and aft adjustment and sponsons. If I were building new I'd incorporate all of Bolger's improvements on my boat. If I ever get a covered work area I'm pretty sure I'd do everything but the new lee boards.

                                      The raised house top transforms a nice pocket cruiser into something pretty spectacular.

                                      Of course I'd also have to think about either a Bird Watcher or a Whale Watcher as an alternative if I was building new.

                                      What I'd really like right now, at my present phase of enlightenment is a Le Chabotian.

                                      Of course there's the incomplete Kolb Cruiser, White Eel, a couple of Adahs and The Arrogant what ever it is as well as a couple of dozen other Bolger designs like Joseph Banks and... Well, and, and, and, etc.

                                      Well, you could start by looking at Martha Jane and Bird and Whale Watcher.

                                      Phil Smith

                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                      From: Ivan Ogburn <aogburn1@...>
                                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2006 11:22:14 PM
                                      Subject: [bolger] Looking for One Great Plan

                                      My name is Ivan.

                                      I am a long time woodworker, builder and engineer, but I have yet to
                                      attempt building a wooden boat.

                                      Originally, I started looking for a small factory made cruiser, that
                                      I could use on the lakes in Southeast Texas to day cruise and that
                                      would have a small galley, head and room for two adults. But after
                                      years of searching through new and used boats, power boats and
                                      sailboats I found that either the boats that seemed to fit my needs
                                      were too large or too expensive (usually both!) or the boats I could
                                      (or wanted to) afford did not offer the cabin size I was looking
                                      for. Then I started looking at boat plans and quickly realized that
                                      I probably did not have the experience to construct a large wooden
                                      power boat and that old boat engines can be more expensive than old
                                      boats! So I have come to rest at Pocket Cruiser sailboats.

                                      My question to the forum is what is a good Bolger pocket cruiser
                                      plan for a first timer with some experience? I am looking for a
                                      trailerable boat (16' 24' long), with a cabin (head/galley/bunks)
                                      that would be relatively inexpensive to build, require moderate
                                      skills, be easy to sail and have an overall classic shippy look.
                                      This would be a long term project that would hopefully culminate in
                                      a lake worthy boat!








                                      Bolger rules!!!
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                                      - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                      - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
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