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Re: [bolger] Re: Sprits, Wishbones and Dovkies

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  • Douglas Pollard
    A straight sprit can be about 1/2 the diameter and weight of a curved sprit. Since most of the load is compression. The curved boom on Wolftrap weighed 16 lbs
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 3, 2006
      A straight sprit can be about 1/2 the diameter and weight of a curved sprit. Since most of the load is compression. The curved boom on Wolftrap weighed 16 lbs was 21/2 dia. and the straight sprit was about 1 3/4 in. in diameter it was 1/16 thick and weighed 7 lb. The main was 425 sq Ft. There was a 16 ft top yard that stuck 10 ft above the top of the mast it only weighed 6 lbs. The loads are pretty light on the spars other than the mast on a sprit rig. I find it amazing and I had no idea that the bow weighs 80 lbs on a Nonsuch. That's 40 pounds per side and that is almost 3 times the weight of the curved sprit on Wolftrap. Seems like huge overkill to me.
      Doug
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: John and Kathy Trussell
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 8:03 PM
      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Sprits, Wishbones and Dovkies


      I really think that you are trying to correct a problem which either doesn't exist or, if it does, is so insignificant that it isn't worth fooling with. I owned a Dovekie for several years and couldn't tell any difference between the "good" tack and the "bad"tack. I would suggest that you try it as PCB drew it and, if it bothers you, implement a fix. Periodically when I build a boat I figure that I'm smarter than the designer. Sometimes I'm right, but not often. And sometimes the shortcomings of my solution are major :<) Still, we who build our own boats are entitled to have things the way we like them. Nonetheless, I think I'd try PCB's way first.

      John T
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Eric OHiggins
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 1:10 PM
      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Sprits, Wishbones and Dovkies



      As usual, watching this space has caused my brain
      cells to break hibernation. Thanks to all for the
      thots.
      The brainwave here concerns wishbones -- specifically
      on the Bolger Solent rig which doesn't have any lacing
      or masthoops or anything else to clutter up the mast.
      I am filing away the idea of rigging two snotters
      instead of one, each snotter rigged to the end of a
      sprit one on each side of the sail.
      The wishbone becomes a very lightly loaded spacer, if
      you see what I mean, and there's no need of heavy
      structure to withstand wishbone style loads. The
      snotter would have to be tacked, of course, but there
      should be a marked improvement in sail shape and the
      leeward sprit should be held up out of the way of the
      sail by the 'spacer' and leeward snotter.
      I'll start out with a simple single sprit per plans
      and see how badly that ugly sail shape bothers me.
      Eric


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      Bolger rules!!!
      - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
      - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
      - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
      - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
      - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



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    • Peter Lenihan
      ... either doesn t exist or, if it does, is so insignificant that it isn t worth fooling with. I owned a Dovekie for several years and couldn t tell any
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 4, 2006
        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell"
        <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
        >
        > I really think that you are trying to correct a problem which
        either doesn't exist or, if it does, is so insignificant that it
        isn't worth fooling with. I owned a Dovekie for several years and
        couldn't tell any difference between the "good" tack and
        the "bad"tack. I would suggest that you try it as PCB drew it and,
        if it bothers you, implement a fix. Periodically when I build a
        boat I figure that I'm smarter than the designer. Sometimes I'm
        right, but not often. And sometimes the shortcomings of my solution
        are major :<) Still, we who build our own boats are entitled to
        have things the way we like them. Nonetheless, I think I'd try
        PCB's way first.


        I'll second that(!) and add that on my ex-Micro,LESTAT, I can't
        recall ever noticing a deficiency on one tack or the other over
        several years of sailing in all sorts of weather but made a point of
        keeping the mizzen sprit-boom rigged on the opposite side,relative
        to the main sprit-boom...just is case there was a difference :-)
        Besides,only multi-millionaire-winning-is-EVERYTHING-die-hard-racers
        really ever care about the 1/100th of a knot difference such-n-such
        a gadget may or may not provide when out sailing/racing.
        Considering that most of us are limited in the number of hours worth
        of leisure time we have to burn,it would appear better to introduce
        devices which will actually keep us "out there" longer.....as in the
        cell phone call to our spouse,"Hi honey,it looks like I'm gonna be a
        bit late coming home since the wind is slowly dying and is coming
        over the "wrong" side of the sprit-boom.....again.....love ya,bye!"
        Beyond that,most of us have as our destination,when we head out for
        a sail,the very same point of departure! Why rush to get back
        there,unless your really do not like spending time on the water! :-D


        Sincerely,

        Peter Lenihan,looking forward to the day when I can call work and
        say,"Hi boss,can't come in today,there is hardly any wind,not a
        cloud in the sky,lots-o-beer left in the cooler,girlfriend gettin'
        frisky and the darn motor won't shut itself off!"...from along the
        shores of the rainy St.Lawrence...............
      • Lincoln Ross
        Tech dinghy racers on the Charles River very often have no money but care a lot about 1/100th of a knot. Given my abilities, I needed at least 1/10 knot. Saw a
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 4, 2006
          Tech dinghy racers on the Charles River very often have no money but
          care a lot about 1/100th of a knot. Given my abilities, I needed at
          least 1/10 knot. Saw a lot of transoms racing with that crowd.

          If you plotted the courses of those who crossed the line just after
          the signal, it would look like a diagram of how to knit a sweater.
          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
          snip
          > Besides,only multi-millionaire-winning-is-EVERYTHING-die-hard-racers
          > really ever care about the 1/100th of a knot difference such-n-such
          > a gadget may or may not provide when out sailing/racing.
          snip
        • skiffsalor2000
          Sailors, I agree with John and built PCB Gypsy to plan including the sail plan. The boat has been in storage for a couple of years but I am ready now to get
          Message 4 of 12 , May 14, 2006
            Sailors,

            I agree with John and built PCB Gypsy to plan including the sail plan.
            The boat has been in storage for a couple of years but I am ready now to
            get back into it. My question - what is a simple approach to improving
            the sheet? Hanging on to that line - there has to be a good simple way
            to rig the sheet so that it can be quickly released saving disaster. I
            bought a couple of simple blocks but not real sure what to do with them.

            Mike




            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell"
            <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
            >
            > I really think that you are trying to correct a problem which either
            doesn't exist or, if it does, is so insignificant that it isn't worth
            fooling with. I owned a Dovekie for several years and couldn't tell any
            difference between the "good" tack and the "bad"tack. I would suggest
            that you try it as PCB drew it and, if it bothers you, implement a fix.
            Periodically when I build a boat I figure that I'm smarter than the
            designer. Sometimes I'm right, but not often. And sometimes the
            shortcomings of my solution are major :<) Still, we who build our own
            boats are entitled to have things the way we like them. Nonetheless, I
            think I'd try PCB's way first.
            >
            > John T
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Eric OHiggins
            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 1:10 PM
            > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Sprits, Wishbones and Dovkies
            >
            >
            >
            > As usual, watching this space has caused my brain
            > cells to break hibernation. Thanks to all for the
            > thots.
            > The brainwave here concerns wishbones -- specifically
            > on the Bolger Solent rig which doesn't have any lacing
            > or masthoops or anything else to clutter up the mast.
            > I am filing away the idea of rigging two snotters
            > instead of one, each snotter rigged to the end of a
            > sprit one on each side of the sail.
            > The wishbone becomes a very lightly loaded spacer, if
            > you see what I mean, and there's no need of heavy
            > structure to withstand wishbone style loads. The
            > snotter would have to be tacked, of course, but there
            > should be a marked improvement in sail shape and the
            > leeward sprit should be held up out of the way of the
            > sail by the 'spacer' and leeward snotter.
            > I'll start out with a simple single sprit per plans
            > and see how badly that ugly sail shape bothers me.
            > Eric
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
            >
            > Bolger rules!!!
            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
            dead horses
            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
            posts
            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
            Fax: (978) 282-1349
            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS Boating safety Boating magazine Alaska outdoors
            > Great outdoors
            >
            >
            >
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            > a.. Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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            > No virus found in this incoming message.
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            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • John and Kathy Trussell
            Mike, PCB frequently leaves details up to the builder, and I m not sure how you have the sheet rigged now. A traditional approach is to install a rack with a
            Message 5 of 12 , May 14, 2006
              Mike,

              PCB frequently leaves details up to the builder, and I'm not sure how you have the sheet rigged now.

              A traditional approach is to install a rack with a pin or hook on the inboard side of either gunwale. The sheet is hooked around the pin and the pin takes the strain of the sheet. It is, of course, necessary to move the sheet to the opposite pin on each tack. The location of the pin fore and aft has some impact on sail performance, so some experimentation is needed.

              Another approach is to mount a block on the rudder head. Run the sheet through the block and wind it a turn or two around the tiller (you want a spiral effect). Hold the sheet with the hand you are steering with--squeezing the sheet against the tiller. Friction between the sheet and the tiller takes the strain, but the sheet can be released instantly by relaxing your hand. NOTE: Sheeting to the rudder head can exert an upward force on the rudder; perhaps enough to unship it. This is a really bad thing when you are under sail. The solution is to make or buy a metal clip which will keep the pintle from rising.

              If you really want to get complicated, check out local one design sailboats (Lightnings are about the most Rube Goldberg arangements, but they work) and copy what you think might work for you.

              With a fairly small sail, I would try to keep it simple first.

              John T

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: skiffsalor2000
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 8:41 AM
              Subject: [bolger] Re: Sprits, Wishbones and Dovkies



              Sailors,

              I agree with John and built PCB Gypsy to plan including the sail plan.
              The boat has been in storage for a couple of years but I am ready now to
              get back into it. My question - what is a simple approach to improving
              the sheet? Hanging on to that line - there has to be a good simple way
              to rig the sheet so that it can be quickly released saving disaster. I
              bought a couple of simple blocks but not real sure what to do with them.

              Mike




              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell"
              <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
              >
              > I really think that you are trying to correct a problem which either
              doesn't exist or, if it does, is so insignificant that it isn't worth
              fooling with. I owned a Dovekie for several years and couldn't tell any
              difference between the "good" tack and the "bad"tack. I would suggest
              that you try it as PCB drew it and, if it bothers you, implement a fix.
              Periodically when I build a boat I figure that I'm smarter than the
              designer. Sometimes I'm right, but not often. And sometimes the
              shortcomings of my solution are major :<) Still, we who build our own
              boats are entitled to have things the way we like them. Nonetheless, I
              think I'd try PCB's way first.
              >
              > John T
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Eric OHiggins
              > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 1:10 PM
              > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Sprits, Wishbones and Dovkies
              >
              >
              >
              > As usual, watching this space has caused my brain
              > cells to break hibernation. Thanks to all for the
              > thots.
              > The brainwave here concerns wishbones -- specifically
              > on the Bolger Solent rig which doesn't have any lacing
              > or masthoops or anything else to clutter up the mast.
              > I am filing away the idea of rigging two snotters
              > instead of one, each snotter rigged to the end of a
              > sprit one on each side of the sail.
              > The wishbone becomes a very lightly loaded spacer, if
              > you see what I mean, and there's no need of heavy
              > structure to withstand wishbone style loads. The
              > snotter would have to be tacked, of course, but there
              > should be a marked improvement in sail shape and the
              > leeward sprit should be held up out of the way of the
              > sail by the 'spacer' and leeward snotter.
              > I'll start out with a simple single sprit per plans
              > and see how badly that ugly sail shape bothers me.
              > Eric
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
              > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
              dead horses
              > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
              posts
              > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
              > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
              Fax: (978) 282-1349
              > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS Boating safety Boating magazine Alaska outdoors
              > Great outdoors
              >
              >
              >
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------\
              ------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > a.. Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
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              >
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              >
              >
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date:
              3/31/2006
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >








              Bolger rules!!!
              - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
              - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
              - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
              - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
              - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



              SPONSORED LINKS Boating magazine Alaska outdoors Boating safety
              Great outdoors


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