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Re: Stain on plywood under EPOXY (WAS polyester)

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  • David
    I m gonna jump in here again. It s true that the West test showed that most of the oil stains did work under West System epoxy. However... there were issues.
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 6, 2006
      I'm gonna jump in here again. It's true that the West test showed that
      most of the oil stains did work under West System epoxy. However...
      there were issues. Some brands worked with minimal dry time, some
      after extensive drytime. One worked not at all. So the results leave
      us with a partial answer regarding oil stains. Of the small sample of
      stains tested (less than a dozen IIRC) we know at least one did not
      allow the epoxy/cloth composite to adhere well. Is it representative
      of a larger group of oil stains (not tested) that would not work at
      all? Some worked only after a longer than normal drytime - I'd guess
      to allow more of the volatile materials which were impeding adhesion
      to outgas. Are the remaining volatiles going to compromise the
      long-term adhesion? Would other brands or formulations of epoxy
      experience different results? Better? Worse?

      My conclusion - even after being reminded of the West test results -
      is the same. If you want to be safe using stain in your composite
      schedule, use a dyestain. Safest is one in water (though that means
      dealing with the minor irritation of grain raising). A close second
      for safety would be the dyestain in alcohol. Smartest of all might be
      no stain at all. Then, there are no subsequent color-matching issues -
      if (when?) a bit of touchup to the finish is required.

      This is just one person's perspective - heavily colored by a distaste
      for redoing tasks, and a severe lack of time for maintainance. I'd
      rather be on the water. If you have more time & inclination to putter,
      and don't mind the prospect of possibly cleaning up a messy experiment
      - cause you've learned something from it - oil stain might work fine
      for you.

      Cheers,
      David Graybeal
      Portland, OR.

      "As I said before, I never repeat myself"

      ******************

      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jjoven_49" <hoz49@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "FRANK Coletta" <coletta_j@> wrote:
      >
      > > I am building a strip built dinghy and I was considering staining
      > it. I am using epoxy resin and fiberglass cloth. I learned that
      it was necessary to use water-based stain for epoxy resin. The
      > oil-based stain would either not > stick or degrade the epoxy.
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > > Frank Coletta
      > > Auburn, WA
      >***********************
      >
      > Not so, read West System epoxy over stains adhesion test:>
      > http://www.boatbuilding.net/article.pl?sid=06/03/02/1252240&mode=thread
      >
      > With adequate drying time oil based stains work well too.
    • FRANK Coletta
      Thank you for the information.
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 6, 2006
        Thank you for the information.


        >From: "jjoven_49" <hoz49@...>
        >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        >To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [bolger] Re: Stain on plywood under EPOXY (WAS polyester)
        >Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:26:13 -0000
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "FRANK Coletta" <coletta_j@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > > I am building a strip built dinghy and I was considering staining
        >
        >it.� I am� using epoxy resin and fiberglass cloth.� I learned that it
        >
        >was necessary to� use water-based stain for epoxy resin.� The
        >
        >oil-based stain would either not > stick or degrade the epoxy.�
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Regards,
        >
        > > Frank Coletta
        >
        > > Auburn, WA
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Not so, read West System epoxy over stains adhesion test:
        >
        >
        >
        >http://www.boatbuilding.net/article.pl?sid=06/03/02/1252240&mode=thread
        >
        >
        >
        >With adequate drying time oil based stains work well too.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
        A solution may be to add a stain pigment to your varnish over the glass to give it the desired color. Jon ... staining ... it
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 6, 2006
          A solution may be to add a stain pigment to your varnish over the
          glass to give it the desired color.

          Jon


          >
          > >From: "jjoven_49" <hoz49@...>
          > >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: [bolger] Re: Stain on plywood under EPOXY (WAS polyester)
          > >Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:26:13 -0000
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "FRANK Coletta" <coletta_j@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > > I am building a strip built dinghy and I was considering
          staining
          > >
          > >it.  I am  using epoxy resin and fiberglass cloth.  I learned that
          it
          > >
          > >was necessary to  use water-based stain for epoxy resin.  The
          > >
          > >oil-based stain would either not > stick or degrade the epoxy. 
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Regards,
          > >
          > > > Frank Coletta
          > >
          > > > Auburn, WA
        • David
          Jon, An excellent suggestion (what else would one expect from a sternwheel fan and an Oregon boy) That process is called toning . You apply tinted
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 6, 2006
            Jon,

            An excellent suggestion (what else would one expect from a sternwheel
            fan and an Oregon boy) <LOL> That process is called "toning". You
            apply tinted topcoat (in this case varnish) until the desired color &
            tone are achieved. Subsequent coats of varnish are applied untinted.
            The only issue then becomes the one of later maintainance & touchups.
            The more clear layers on top of the tinted ones the better. Then if
            you keep up the brightwork maintainance, hopefully you can avoid
            trying to match color due to a scuff or such that penetrates into the
            tinted coats. Color matching a toned finish is Very Difficult. If a
            bunch of repairs are made, it can end up looking a bit like a
            splotchy attempt at a camo finish <G> If the brightwork is babied a
            little in use, and regularly refreshed (see Ms. Witt's books for
            details), such an approach could work quite well.

            Cheers,
            David Graybeal
            Portland, OR.

            "In a consumer society, there are inevitably two kinds of slaves: the
            prisoners of addiction, and the prisoners of envy" -- Ivan Illich

            *******************

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > A solution may be to add a stain pigment to your varnish over the
            > glass to give it the desired color.
            >
            > Jon
          • Clyde Wisner
            I almost hate to admit this but once I spilled some leather shoe dye, tolulene based, (spelling may be wrong) and never got it all off some chairlegs. Later I
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 7, 2006
              I almost hate to admit this but once I spilled some leather shoe dye,
              tolulene based, (spelling may be wrong) and never got it all off some
              chairlegs. Later I got some more and staimed the transome and thwarts
              in my Wine Glass Wherry. Made okume in to dark mahagony, covered with
              epoxy and the transome with glass also. This has held up for 10 yrs with
              a lot of time in open sunlight. Clyde


              David wrote:

              >I'm gonna jump in here again. It's true that the West test showed that
              >most of the oil stains did work under West System epoxy. However...
              >there were issues. Some brands worked with minimal dry time, some
              >after extensive drytime. One worked not at all. So the results leave
              >us with a partial answer regarding oil stains. Of the small sample of
              >stains tested (less than a dozen IIRC) we know at least one did not
              >allow the epoxy/cloth composite to adhere well. Is it representative
              >of a larger group of oil stains (not tested) that would not work at
              >
              >
            • Clyde Wisner
              Forgot to mention brown leather shoe dye vs polish and tolulene is a very hot solvent. Clyde ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 7, 2006
                Forgot to mention "brown" leather shoe dye vs polish and tolulene is a
                very hot solvent. Clyde
                Clyde Wisner wrote:

                >I almost hate to admit this but once I spilled some leather shoe dye,
                >tolulene based, (spelling may be wrong) and never got it all off some
                >chairlegs. Later I got some more and staimed the transome and thwarts
                >in my Wine Glass Wherry. Made okume in to dark mahagony, covered with
                >epoxy and the transome with glass also. This has held up for 10 yrs with
                >a lot of time in open sunlight. Clyde
                >
                >
                >David wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >>I'm gonna jump in here again. It's true that the West test showed that
                >>most of the oil stains did work under West System epoxy. However...
                >>there were issues. Some brands worked with minimal dry time, some
                >>after extensive drytime. One worked not at all. So the results leave
                >>us with a partial answer regarding oil stains. Of the small sample of
                >>stains tested (less than a dozen IIRC) we know at least one did not
                >>allow the epoxy/cloth composite to adhere well. Is it representative
                >>of a larger group of oil stains (not tested) that would not work at
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >Bolger rules!!!
                >- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bob Chamberland
                ... with ... dead horses ... posts ... 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 7, 2006
                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Forgot to mention "brown" leather shoe dye vs polish and tolulene is a
                  > very hot solvent. Clyde
                  > Clyde Wisner wrote:
                  >
                  > >I almost hate to admit this but once I spilled some leather shoe dye,
                  > >tolulene based, (spelling may be wrong) and never got it all off some
                  > >chairlegs. Later I got some more and staimed the transome and thwarts
                  > >in my Wine Glass Wherry. Made okume in to dark mahagony, covered with
                  > >epoxy and the transome with glass also. This has held up for 10 yrs
                  with
                  > >a lot of time in open sunlight. Clyde
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >David wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >>I'm gonna jump in here again. It's true that the West test showed that
                  > >>most of the oil stains did work under West System epoxy. However...
                  > >>there were issues. Some brands worked with minimal dry time, some
                  > >>after extensive drytime. One worked not at all. So the results leave
                  > >>us with a partial answer regarding oil stains. Of the small sample of
                  > >>stains tested (less than a dozen IIRC) we know at least one did not
                  > >>allow the epoxy/cloth composite to adhere well. Is it representative
                  > >>of a larger group of oil stains (not tested) that would not work at
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Bolger rules!!!
                  > >- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                  > >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
                  dead horses
                  > >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
                  posts
                  > >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                  > >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                  01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  > >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • JJ Johnson
                  I caught something on the discovery Channel last night that might be of interest to the whole community. Just in passing as they were discussing the Titanic,
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 9, 2006
                    I caught something on the discovery Channel last night that might be
                    of interest to the whole community. Just in passing as they were
                    discussing the Titanic, they mentioned that the items that last best
                    after almost 100 years underwater where shoes, purses, belts and
                    other things made from leather. Maybe we should start sheathing our
                    boats with leather so they will last longer.....hehehehe

                    Fair Windas and Smooth Sailing
                    JJ

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I almost hate to admit this but once I spilled some leather shoe
                    dye,
                    > tolulene based, (spelling may be wrong) and never got it all off
                    some
                    > chairlegs. Later I got some more and staimed the transome and
                    thwarts
                    > in my Wine Glass Wherry. Made okume in to dark mahagony, covered
                    with
                    > epoxy and the transome with glass also. This has held up for 10 yrs
                    with
                    > a lot of time in open sunlight. Clyde
                    >
                    >
                    > David wrote:
                    >
                    > >I'm gonna jump in here again. It's true that the West test showed
                    that
                    > >most of the oil stains did work under West System epoxy. However...
                    > >there were issues. Some brands worked with minimal dry time, some
                    > >after extensive drytime. One worked not at all. So the results
                    leave
                    > >us with a partial answer regarding oil stains. Of the small sample
                    of
                    > >stains tested (less than a dozen IIRC) we know at least one did not
                    > >allow the epoxy/cloth composite to adhere well. Is it
                    representative
                    > >of a larger group of oil stains (not tested) that would not work at
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
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