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Re: Chinese gaffer

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  • dbaldnz
    ... conditions do ... Hi Stuart, How is your Cynthia J? The Navigator was designed by Bolger, so an Aussie Micro owner could convert his Micro into an ocean
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 4, 2006
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      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, stuart crawford <scrawford@...> wrote:
      >
      > DonB or anyone else who has experience using the Chinese gaff rig on
      > Navigator.
      >
      > All theory aside, how do you find the rig in practice? What
      conditions do
      > you find it most suitable for?
      >
      > Stuart Crawford.
      >
      Hi Stuart,
      How is your Cynthia J?
      The Navigator was designed by Bolger, so an Aussie Micro owner could
      convert his Micro into an ocean cruiser, hopping from port to port
      around Australia, which would require quite a seaworthy boat and rig.
      I don't know of any builder so far who has done more than daysailing
      or short cruises in sheltered waters. I have not been out in more than
      marginal reefing breezes. And the set of the sails on my website is a
      cringe. My excuse is, that it was the first sail, and rigging took an
      age, leaving little time to sail before the tide went out again.
      Sitting in mud for a day was not on my wishlist. But I do have some
      opinions.
      The rig was designed for reefing without the need to go outside, at
      sea. Really, it is normal jiffy reefing with the lines leading inside,
      with full length battens and jaws to help keep it all under control.
      Then mainsail sheetlets sheeted to the mizzen mast to sit the mainsail
      leech up for efficient windward sailing. And the rig is very competent
      for windward sailing, at least in light to moderate conditions.
      However it does have potential vulnerabilities in my opinion, in heavy
      adverse conditions. For example, turning from 'on the wind' to a broad
      reach or run, you have to remember to let go and reset the main leech
      sheetlets as well as the mainsheet. If you forgot to do so, and were
      hit by a strong gust,wild rolling and gear breakage would be a strong
      possibility. The jaws bolted to the mainsail luff could easily be
      broken, as could the battens.
      The rope in the rig is a nightmare until both masts and sails are
      erected and in place. What looks simple viewed on the sailplan is a
      cats cradle when the masts and sails are laid out on deck. It is so
      easy to get one wrong, around something else or hooked up as you lift
      the mast in place. Twice I have had to take the whole thing down again
      because of one small problem. Both masts and sails are interconnected
      with ropes, and EVERYTHING needs to be in place before anything can be
      erected. You need a Boeing 747 checklist!
      The ropes are also everywhere when you are not sailing. Once in place
      correctly however, everything looks after itself quite well when
      sailing and gybing, with the exception of extra watching and handling
      as said above. I did have one of the sheetlets hook around the aft
      corner of the cabin roof overhang, but luckily just while swinging on
      the mooring. If it happened in anger, perhaps the roof could be lifted!
      Bruce and Dereck will know better, but I would not like to trailer
      this boat, just for short sailing, because of the rig complexity. In
      fact I'm thinking I will try it without the connecting string.
      Basically, I think the rig is over complex for casual sailing, and
      possibly not that seamanlike for ocean work, as the owner of Alert
      found. The rig is great for someone who loves tinkering and playing
      about with setups and improvements. If I were starting over, Jason's
      overlarge balanced lug, or the chinese lug on the Birdwatcher featured
      in Duckworks magazine are better rigs for simple casual sailing. Big
      for speed, and much easier to reef as soon as needed. Combined with
      Jason's swing mast, a very sensible combo.
      I feel the Chinese Gaff rig is better in theory than in practice.
      Cheers,
      Don
      http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
    • stuart crawford
      Hi Don, Thank you for such a detailed response, it was most informative. As to my Cynthia J. Nothing much has happened in about four years due to various
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 5, 2006
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        Hi Don,

        Thank you for such a detailed response, it was most informative.

        As to my Cynthia J. Nothing much has happened in about four years due to
        various changes in personal circumstances, starting with moving from the
        house I was building it in. After treating all of the Kaihikatea and red
        beech framing with clear metalex, I moved it into an open shed for storage,
        with the help of an experienced rigger. Unfortunately when lifting it of the
        back of a truck with a front end loader it fell from the height of about
        eight feet, onto a hard gravel yard and cracked the bottom frame in the
        bulkhead, at entrance to cuddy. After a couple of years and another move I
        put it into an insulated shipping container. Currently I am in the process
        of relocating to Dunedin, hopefully in the next two or three months, where I
        intend on repairing the damage and finishing building her.

        Stuart Crawford.

        > From: dbaldnz <oink@...>
        > Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 02:50:06 +0000
        > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [bolger] Re: Chinese gaffer
        >
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, stuart crawford <scrawford@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> DonB or anyone else who has experience using the Chinese gaff rig on
        >> Navigator.
        >>
        >> All theory aside, how do you find the rig in practice? What
        > conditions do
        >> you find it most suitable for?
        >>
        >> Stuart Crawford.
        >>
        > Hi Stuart,
        > How is your Cynthia J?
        > The Navigator was designed by Bolger, so an Aussie Micro owner could
        > convert his Micro into an ocean cruiser, hopping from port to port
        > around Australia, which would require quite a seaworthy boat and rig.
        > I don't know of any builder so far who has done more than daysailing
        > or short cruises in sheltered waters. I have not been out in more than
        > marginal reefing breezes. And the set of the sails on my website is a
        > cringe. My excuse is, that it was the first sail, and rigging took an
        > age, leaving little time to sail before the tide went out again.
        > Sitting in mud for a day was not on my wishlist. But I do have some
        > opinions.
        > The rig was designed for reefing without the need to go outside, at
        > sea. Really, it is normal jiffy reefing with the lines leading inside,
        > with full length battens and jaws to help keep it all under control.
        > Then mainsail sheetlets sheeted to the mizzen mast to sit the mainsail
        > leech up for efficient windward sailing. And the rig is very competent
        > for windward sailing, at least in light to moderate conditions.
        > However it does have potential vulnerabilities in my opinion, in heavy
        > adverse conditions. For example, turning from 'on the wind' to a broad
        > reach or run, you have to remember to let go and reset the main leech
        > sheetlets as well as the mainsheet. If you forgot to do so, and were
        > hit by a strong gust,wild rolling and gear breakage would be a strong
        > possibility. The jaws bolted to the mainsail luff could easily be
        > broken, as could the battens.
        > The rope in the rig is a nightmare until both masts and sails are
        > erected and in place. What looks simple viewed on the sailplan is a
        > cats cradle when the masts and sails are laid out on deck. It is so
        > easy to get one wrong, around something else or hooked up as you lift
        > the mast in place. Twice I have had to take the whole thing down again
        > because of one small problem. Both masts and sails are interconnected
        > with ropes, and EVERYTHING needs to be in place before anything can be
        > erected. You need a Boeing 747 checklist!
        > The ropes are also everywhere when you are not sailing. Once in place
        > correctly however, everything looks after itself quite well when
        > sailing and gybing, with the exception of extra watching and handling
        > as said above. I did have one of the sheetlets hook around the aft
        > corner of the cabin roof overhang, but luckily just while swinging on
        > the mooring. If it happened in anger, perhaps the roof could be lifted!
        > Bruce and Dereck will know better, but I would not like to trailer
        > this boat, just for short sailing, because of the rig complexity. In
        > fact I'm thinking I will try it without the connecting string.
        > Basically, I think the rig is over complex for casual sailing, and
        > possibly not that seamanlike for ocean work, as the owner of Alert
        > found. The rig is great for someone who loves tinkering and playing
        > about with setups and improvements. If I were starting over, Jason's
        > overlarge balanced lug, or the chinese lug on the Birdwatcher featured
        > in Duckworks magazine are better rigs for simple casual sailing. Big
        > for speed, and much easier to reef as soon as needed. Combined with
        > Jason's swing mast, a very sensible combo.
        > I feel the Chinese Gaff rig is better in theory than in practice.
        > Cheers,
        > Don
        > http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
        > (978) 282-1349
        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... I certainly understand how real life can delay things, and how a setback like a cracked frame can be discouraging. I bet that you will find that the time
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 5, 2006
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          > cracked the bottom frame in the bulkhead,

          I certainly understand how 'real life' can delay things,
          and how a setback like a cracked frame can be
          discouraging.

          I bet that you will find that the time you can spend
          agonizing over a problem like a cracked frame can
          exceed the actual time it takes to cut it out and
          fix it by a factor of ten. I am presumptuous to offer
          advice but , I say, take a deep breath, get out the
          Sawsall and some epoxy, and just go at it.
        • stuart crawford
          The actual repair won t take that long once I start it, but at present the hull is 130 kilometers from where I am living and the hull is in a 20 foot container
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 5, 2006
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            The actual repair won't take that long once I start it, but at present the
            hull is 130 kilometers from where I am living and the hull is in a 20 foot
            container packed with other stuff unrelated to the boat. My plan when I move
            is to set up somewhere that I can work on it.

            I am no longer in a position to work on it in the lounge, as I was when I
            built the hull. My other half just doesn't seem to understand what a well
            suited building space it is.

            Stuart Crawford.

            > From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
            > Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 09:04:59 -0800
            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Chinese gaffer
            >
            >> cracked the bottom frame in the bulkhead,
            >
            > I certainly understand how 'real life' can delay things,
            > and how a setback like a cracked frame can be
            > discouraging.
            >
            > I bet that you will find that the time you can spend
            > agonizing over a problem like a cracked frame can
            > exceed the actual time it takes to cut it out and
            > fix it by a factor of ten. I am presumptuous to offer
            > advice but , I say, take a deep breath, get out the
            > Sawsall and some epoxy, and just go at it.
            >
            >
            > Bolger rules!!!
            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
            > (978) 282-1349
            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • dbaldnz
            Women can be cruel and heartless at times! Good luck with CJ, and looking forward to hearing of your cruises on the lakes, Don ... when I ... well ... dead
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 5, 2006
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              Women can be cruel and heartless at times!
              Good luck with CJ, and looking forward to hearing of your cruises on
              the lakes,
              Don
              >
              > I am no longer in a position to work on it in the lounge, as I was
              when I
              > built the hull. My other half just doesn't seem to understand what a
              well
              > suited building space it is.
              >
              > Stuart Crawford.
              >
              > > From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
              > > Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              > > Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 09:04:59 -0800
              > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Chinese gaffer
              > >
              > >> cracked the bottom frame in the bulkhead,
              > >
              > > I certainly understand how 'real life' can delay things,
              > > and how a setback like a cracked frame can be
              > > discouraging.
              > >
              > > I bet that you will find that the time you can spend
              > > agonizing over a problem like a cracked frame can
              > > exceed the actual time it takes to cut it out and
              > > fix it by a factor of ten. I am presumptuous to offer
              > > advice but , I say, take a deep breath, get out the
              > > Sawsall and some epoxy, and just go at it.
              > >
              > >
              > > Bolger rules!!!
              > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
              > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
              dead horses
              > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
              posts
              > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
              > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
              01930, Fax:
              > > (978) 282-1349
              > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Jason Stancil
              If I were starting over, Jason s ... featured in Duckworks magazine are better rigs for simple casual sailing. Big for speed, and much easier to reef as soon
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 5, 2006
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                If I were starting over, Jason's
                > overlarge balanced lug, or the chinese lug on the Birdwatcher
                featured in Duckworks magazine are better rigs for simple casual
                sailing. Big for speed, and much easier to reef as soon as needed.
                Combined with Jason's swing mast, a very sensible combo.

                Hey! Sensible i'm not. Just returned from SE Asia after being away
                for a while....heading up to WV to pick up my boat and trailer it to
                Beaufort, NC for a week long cruise. I'll post a bunch of pics of
                the ordeal for those who asked for more pics a week or so
                ago.....sorry i was separated from camera/laptop & reliable
                internet. I've found that big lug really managable. With some jiffy
                reef tinkering i don't believe i'd even have to slide the hatch open
                for anything....that said, i never close the hatch. My only beef
                with the set up is either my rudder needs to be stretched 2' with a
                bit more endplate and/or the tiller needs to be longer. I tend to
                oversteer at speed and loose steerage way when ghosting. I'll test
                it in some 1 to 20+ knot winds on this little trip and decide what
                to do.

                Jason
                PS: i got it down to taking 120 seconds to get the mast up and
                pinned, yard up, tack down and sheet set.
              • dbaldnz
                ... I m eating my heart out Jason! Looking forward to your new report, Don
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 5, 2006
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                  > Jason
                  > PS: i got it down to taking 120 seconds to get the mast up and
                  > pinned, yard up, tack down and sheet set.
                  I'm eating my heart out Jason! Looking forward to your new report,
                  Don
                • Bruce Hallman
                  ... I like the rig. The biggest single reason for the rig is to provide a positive, safe, way to reef, and unreef the sail from the safety of the cockpit. I
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 6, 2006
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                    > All theory aside, how do you find the rig in practice? What conditions do
                    > you find it most suitable for?
                    >
                    > Stuart Crawford.

                    I like the rig. The biggest single reason for the rig is to provide
                    a positive, safe, way to reef, and unreef the sail from the
                    safety of the cockpit. I also like that none of the lines are
                    under high tension.

                    The total number of lines isn't that hard to learn and use.
                    It does take close to an hour to set up after stepping the mast,
                    so using it on a trailer sailer involves work.
                  • Peter Lenihan
                    ... Hi Don, Just a quicky to say how much I ve enjoyed looking over your web page! It had been a while since I last looked and boy do I ever regret not
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 6, 2006
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@...> wrote:
                      > Go to this link and click on 'other bolger boats'
                      > http://oink.kiwiwebhost.biz/
                      > DonB

                      Hi Don,

                      Just a quicky to say how much I've enjoyed looking over your web
                      page! It had been a while since I last looked and boy do I ever regret
                      not checking it more often/sooner! Absolutely fantastic photos of OINK
                      sailing in what has got to be the bluest water I've ever seen on the
                      net :-D

                      Thanks for the eye candy treat !

                      Sincerely,

                      Peter Lenihan,snow bound,again,but loving the thought of green shores
                      and blue waters ever more...........
                    • dbaldnz
                      Nice to hear from you Peter. Won t belong before the good ship Windermere is yo hoing acros the Great lakes, Cheers, Don
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 6, 2006
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                        Nice to hear from you Peter.
                        Won't belong before the good ship Windermere is yo hoing acros the
                        Great lakes,
                        Cheers,
                        Don
                        > Hi Don,
                        >
                        > Just a quicky to say how much I've enjoyed looking over your web
                        > page! It had been a while since I last looked and boy do I ever regret
                        > not checking it more often/sooner! Absolutely fantastic photos of OINK
                        > sailing in what has got to be the bluest water I've ever seen on the
                        > net :-D
                        >
                        > Thanks for the eye candy treat !
                        >
                        > Sincerely,
                        >
                        > Peter Lenihan,snow bound,again,but loving the thought of green shores
                        > and blue waters ever more...........
                        >
                      • Peter Lenihan
                        ... Don, With any kind of luck she should be in the water by mid-summer. I got a chuckle from your yo hoing notion! (Vis. Yo! Hoe! How much? ) Trashy humour
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 8, 2006
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                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Nice to hear from you Peter.
                          > Won't belong before the good ship Windermere is yo hoing acros the
                          > Great lakes,
                          > Cheers,
                          > Don


                          Don,
                          With any kind of luck she should be in the water by mid-summer. I
                          got a chuckle from your "yo hoing" notion! (Vis. "Yo! Hoe! How
                          much?")
                          Trashy humour from over exposure to my American cousins to the South
                          of me <:-) Perhaps it doesn't work in the antipodes..........

                          Hope all is well and that summer is treating you and OINK with fair
                          winds and bright blue skyes galore!

                          Sincerely,

                          Peter Lenihan, who can only dream of summer for the time being but
                          is encouraged by the ever lenghtening days of light making their
                          presence felt more and more along the shores of the bone cold
                          St.Lawrence..........
                        • dbaldnz
                          ... Peter, probably much like Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of rum . I have a nice bottle of red stowed away, and when we see the first picture of a wet bottomed
                          Message 12 of 14 , Feb 8, 2006
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                            > Don,
                            > With any kind of luck she should be in the water by mid-summer. I
                            > got a chuckle from your "yo hoing" notion! (Vis. "Yo! Hoe! How
                            > much?")
                            > Trashy humour from over exposure to my American cousins to the South
                            > of me <:-) Perhaps it doesn't work in the antipodes..........
                            >
                            > Hope all is well and that summer is treating you and OINK with fair
                            > winds and bright blue skyes galore!
                            >
                            > Sincerely,
                            >
                            > Peter Lenihan, who can only dream of summer for the time being but
                            > is encouraged by the ever lenghtening days of light making their
                            > presence felt more and more along the shores of the bone cold
                            > St.Lawrence..........
                            >
                            Peter, probably much like "Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of rum".
                            I have a nice bottle of red stowed away, and when we see the first
                            picture of a wet bottomed Windermere (and builder), it's going to pop
                            it's top!
                            Cheers,
                            Don
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