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Re: psychology of boatbuilding

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  • Bill_Mercer
    ... I think part of the problem (well, it s problem for me, see below) is that women just don t get trained in taking things apart, or putting things together,
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 3, 2006
      > I'm not sure that interest, per se, is the limiting factor. Many
      > women who I've spoken with have just never had it occur to them that
      > they could successfully build a boat in a reasonable amount of time,
      > effort, and skill.

      I think part of the problem (well, it's problem for me, see below) is
      that women just don't get trained in taking things apart, or putting
      things together, as kids. When I was growing up, my Dad was always
      either fixing or building something, and I got the idea that that was
      what I should do too, though it took me a while to get to building
      anything besides models.

      I've tried to interest my girlfriend in building boats, but even
      though she's got a kayak kit about halfway done, with my help, she
      just can't sustain interest in it and the thing has been languishing.
      She's supportive of my interests though, and has been just as
      interested as me in finding a house with decent workshop space
      (nothing kills a project faster than freezing your $%#$ off under a
      leaky carport roof in Portland, OR).

      In fact though I've known a fair number of crafty women, I've really
      only known one who would work on larger-scale projects (bigger than
      paintings or jewelry) for fun.

      Bill


      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@...> wrote:
      >
      > Patrick Crockett:
      > > It appears that it may be the case that men are slightly
      > > more likely to be interested in some other creative endeavors
      > > (artists, authors, musicians)
      >
      > Not in my experience -- the artsy people I know are overwhelmingly
      > skewed toward women.
      >
      > > The difference in
      > > interest in boatbuilding is way too large to be due to culture, I
      > > think.
      >
      > I'm not so sure about that. Interest in building boats seems fairly
      > similar between men and women among people who are interested and
      > willing to work with power tools, but there's a strong sense in the
      > dominant culture that power tools are a "guy thing" and that women who
      > use them are weird and vaguely threatening. Interest in owning boats
      > or other vehicles for recreation -- especially in owning more than
      > one! -- does seem to skew more toward men, which may further
      > contribute to the phenomenon.
      >
      > There also may be a generational factor at work: many boatbuilding
      > people I've met have tended to skew older than the median, and younger
      > women are a bit less hamstrung by pre-feminist gender roles.
      >
      > > So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interests
      > > men but not women?
      >
      > I'm not sure that interest, per se, is the limiting factor. Many
      > women who I've spoken with have just never had it occur to them that
      > they could successfully build a boat in a reasonable amount of time,
      > effort, and skill. I've gotten several female friends involved in
      > building boats of their own (or repairing existing boats) simply by
      > describing how easy instant boat and stitch-and-glue building methods
      > can be.
      >
      > --
      > Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
      >
    • efemiket
      ... Why not a daughter? Dad can teach her all about tools and woodworking etc, and maybe a lot more women would be boatbuilders. I suspect nature is at work as
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 8, 2006
        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
        >
        > I've read that every man should do three things in his life:
        >
        > Have a son.

        Why not a daughter? Dad can teach her all about tools and woodworking
        etc, and maybe a lot more women would be boatbuilders.

        I suspect nature is at work as well as nurture, however, as anyone who
        has a son and a daughter both can probably attest.

        I recall that in grade 7 you could choose shop class or home economics
        (cooking etc). In shop the male/female split was about 85/15; the
        reverse in home ec. I still remember being kind of surprised at how
        many girls wanted to take shop...I guess I assumed they would just all
        go to home ec. I took shop, but I learned to cook too, later on!

        Mike T


        > Build a house.
        > Build a boat.
        >
        >[snip]
        > Patrick
        >
      • dnjost
        My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head screwdriver by assisting
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 9, 2006
          My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
          learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
          screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
          are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
          Micro you are building.

          Our most recent project is the construction of a cruising sail for
          our 13' 6" Holt Enterprise! We ordered a kit from Sailrite, and have
          been having a ball putting it together. So far, we have learned:
          Patience, practice, sail shape, sewing machine maintenance, how to
          recover from mistakes, and the joy and essential nature of teamwork
          and cooperation. I really recommend working with Sailrite, they are
          a fantastic company.

          She is just as excited as I am about our upcoming order for
          Birdwather II plans. We know that we can build every single
          component of this boat. (well, maybe not the trailer, or motor. we
          will leave that to the experts).

          Happy building, include your kids.

          David Jost
        • Nels
          ... With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter learned the facts of life . Put away those silly flat and phillips screwdrivers and
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 9, 2006
            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
            >
            > My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
            > learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
            > screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
            > are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
            > Micro you are building.
            >
            With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
            learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
            screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver

            I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
            advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
            the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
            old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.

            http://www.mcfeelys.com/

            Nels
          • Bill Kreamer
            Has anyone stripped Robertson square drive screws as often as me? I switched to Torx ( star drive ) and I am now a happy camper. - Bill _____ From:
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 9, 2006
              Has anyone stripped Robertson square drive screws as often as me? I switched
              to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.

              - Bill



              _____

              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Nels
              Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:28 AM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding



              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
              >
              > My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
              > learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
              > screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
              > are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
              > Micro you are building.
              >
              With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
              learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
              screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver

              I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
              advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
              the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
              old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.

              http://www.mcfeelys.com/

              Nels






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            • David
              Bill, I own an Architectural Millwork firm. We use predominantly #2 Robertson drive screws. I ve never seen anyone strip one out. I have to say, that would
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 9, 2006
                Bill,

                I own an Architectural Millwork firm. We use predominantly #2
                Robertson drive screws. I've never seen anyone strip one out. I have
                to say, that would take a bit of talent (did you ever have the
                nickname FullTiltBill?) <Grin>. We do use mostly cordless drills with
                adjustable clutch settings to avoid such mishaps. I've never used Torx
                screws in any quantity - are they (as they appear) significantly more
                resistant to stripping out the heads?

                Cheers,
                David Graybeal
                Portland, OR.

                "Moderation in all things, especially moderation"

                *********************

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...> wrote:
                >
                > Has anyone stripped Robertson square drive screws as often as me? I
                switched
                > to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.
                >
                > - Bill
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of
                > Nels
                > Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:28 AM
                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@> wrote:
                > >
                > > My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
                > > learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
                > > screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
                > > are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
                > > Micro you are building.
                > >
                > With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
                > learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
                > screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
                >
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
                >
                > I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
                > advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
                > the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
                > old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.
                >
                > http://www.mcfeelys.com/
                >
                > Nels
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • Nels
                ... have ... with ... Torx ... more ... I have never had the experience of ever stripping out a Robertson screw when driving it by hand in over 30 years of
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 9, 2006
                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Bill,
                  >
                  > I own an Architectural Millwork firm. We use predominantly #2
                  > Robertson drive screws. I've never seen anyone strip one out. I
                  have
                  > to say, that would take a bit of talent (did you ever have the
                  > nickname FullTiltBill?) <Grin>. We do use mostly cordless drills
                  with
                  > adjustable clutch settings to avoid such mishaps. I've never used
                  Torx
                  > screws in any quantity - are they (as they appear) significantly
                  more
                  > resistant to stripping out the heads?
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  > David Graybeal
                  > Portland, OR.
                  >
                  > "Moderation in all things, especially moderation"
                  >
                  > *********************

                  I have never had the experience of ever stripping out a Robertson
                  screw when driving it by hand in over 30 years of using them.

                  I highly recommend your method David, in using a driver with an
                  adjustable clutch, because it is possible if driving into hardwood,
                  with no pilot hole, to strip out the head - or twist it off - with a
                  powerful driver.

                  Two other possible errors I have witnessed, is using a smaller size
                  bit to drive a size larger screw and using a driver bit that is worn
                  out so the edges are rounded. If the bit won't hold the screw by
                  itself it is either the wrong bit or it is worn out.

                  I have only seen torx screws that are meant for metal work. Was not
                  aware of them being available for use in woodwork. Not that I see
                  any advantage in them.

                  Nels
                • Clyde Wisner
                  I have an idea, it depends on the maker or supplier of the square drive screws. I ve had some stainless ones that striped so fast that I probably threw half
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 9, 2006
                    I have an idea, it depends on the maker or supplier of the square drive
                    screws. I've had some stainless ones that striped so fast that I
                    probably threw half away and then another batch from McFeeley wich
                    worked pretty well in putting down decking and assorted chores. If they
                    fail the first time try another supplir. Clyde


                    David wrote:

                    >>to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.
                    >>
                    >>- Bill
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> _____
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                    >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bryant Owen
                    I m presuming you re talking about the head. I ve stripped enough to say some things. 1. type and quality of the material used for the screw i.e. bronze
                    Message 9 of 29 , Feb 9, 2006
                      I'm presuming you're talking about the head. I've stripped enough to
                      say some things.

                      1. type and quality of the material used for the screw i.e. bronze
                      obviously strips easier than stainless. Also consider the metalurgical
                      aspect of the screw - some are "softer" than others.

                      2. size/shape of screw head opening vs size/shape of screwdriver head.

                      3. material you're using the screw in e.g. screw into a knot that
                      stops the screw from turning.

                      4. how much "wheaties" you and your cordless are using.

                      All things considered, when I've matched the right screw to the right
                      job and used the right head, used pilots or some other pre-drilling
                      and watched the feed and speed I've never stripped one.

                      Bryant - who sometimes doesn't know his own strength.

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Has anyone stripped Robertson square drive screws as often as me? I
                      switched
                      > to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.
                      >
                      > - Bill
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of
                      > Nels
                      > Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:28 AM
                      > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
                      > > learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
                      > > screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
                      > > are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
                      > > Micro you are building.
                      > >
                      > With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
                      > learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
                      > screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
                      >
                      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
                      >
                      > I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
                      > advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
                      > the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
                      > old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.
                      >
                      > http://www.mcfeelys.com/
                      >
                      > Nels
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Bolger rules!!!
                      > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
                      > horses
                      > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                      > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                      > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                      Fax:
                      > (978) 282-1349
                      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                    • Harry James
                      I have had better luck with the square drives over phillips and I have had very good results with the torx drives. The smaller ones will last through a couple
                      Message 10 of 29 , Feb 9, 2006
                        I have had better luck with the square drives over phillips and I have
                        had very good results with the torx drives. The smaller ones will last
                        through a couple hundred screws, the larger ones seem to never fail. The
                        problem is finding marine grade screws with torx heads. You got a source?

                        HJ

                        Bill Kreamer wrote:
                        > Has anyone stripped Robertson square drive screws as often as me? I switched
                        > to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.
                        >
                        > - Bill
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        > Nels
                        > Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:28 AM
                        > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
                        >> learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
                        >> screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
                        >> are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
                        >> Micro you are building.
                        >>
                        >>
                        > With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
                        > learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
                        > screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
                        >
                        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
                        >
                        > I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
                        > advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
                        > the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
                        > old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.
                        >
                        > http://www.mcfeelys.com/
                        >
                        > Nels
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • ellengaestboatbuildingcom
                        ... daughter ... phillips ... With a robbie you can drive a screw into ... other ... Hear!Hear! I have used these exclusively on several boats and can not
                        Message 11 of 29 , Feb 10, 2006
                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
                          >> With all due respect David, I think it is about time your
                          daughter
                          > learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and
                          phillips
                          > screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
                          >
                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
                          With a robbie you can drive a screw into
                          > the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those
                          other
                          > old fashioned kind:-)

                          Hear!Hear! I have used these exclusively on several boats and can
                          not imagine ever wanting to go back to any other type of screw
                          head.To add to what Nels mentions about over head screw driving with
                          one hand,it is important to use the correct sized Robertson screw
                          driver and genuine Robertson screws not just some generic square
                          head screw driver and square headed screws.The real
                          Robertsons have nice deep pockets with crisp corners which makes for
                          authorative driving and backing out of these screws,especially
                          those one-handed-out-stretched-on-your-belly-with-arms-bent-down-
                          into-some-hell-hole-of-a-tight-engine-compartment-with-no-light-to-
                          see-the-phukin-screw-while-the-crew-asks-whether-it-is-noraml-for-so-
                          much-water-to-be-in-the-engine-compartment-in-the-first-place-and-
                          can-you-fix-it-before-we-drift-into-the-rocks-just-over-there-while-
                          the-crews-pet-Beagle-keeps-trying-to-get-between-your-legs-to-sniff-
                          your-crotch screws.
                          What? You've never had that type of screw before? You ain't lived
                          yet my friend!


                          Sincerely,

                          Peter"I'll take an even 13" Lenihan, who can't say or sing enough
                          the praises for Robertson drive
                        • Peter Lenihan
                          ... daughter ... phillips ... With a robbie you can drive a screw into ... other ... Hear!Hear! I have used these exclusively on several boats and can not
                          Message 12 of 29 , Feb 10, 2006
                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
                            >> With all due respect David, I think it is about time your
                            daughter
                            > learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and
                            phillips
                            > screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
                            >
                            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
                            With a robbie you can drive a screw into
                            > the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those
                            other
                            > old fashioned kind:-)

                            Hear!Hear! I have used these exclusively on several boats and can
                            not imagine ever wanting to go back to any other type of screw
                            head.To add to what Nels mentions about over head screw driving with
                            one hand,it is important to use the correct sized Robertson screw
                            driver and genuine Robertson screws not just some generic square
                            head screw driver and square headed screws.The real
                            Robertsons have nice deep pockets with crisp corners which makes for
                            authorative driving and backing out of these screws,especially
                            those one-handed-out-stretched-on-your-belly-with-arms-bent-down-
                            into-some-hell-hole-of-a-tight-engine-compartment-with-no-light-to-
                            see-the-phukin-screw-while-the-crew-asks-whether-it-is-noraml-for-so-
                            much-water-to-be-in-the-engine-compartment-in-the-first-place-and-
                            can-you-fix-it-before-we-drift-into-the-rocks-just-over-there-while-
                            the-crews-pet-Beagle-keeps-trying-to-get-between-your-legs-to-sniff-
                            your-crotch screws.
                            What? You've never had that type of screw before? You ain't lived
                            yet my friend!


                            Sincerely,

                            Peter"I'll take an even 13" Lenihan, who can't say or sing enough
                            the praises for Robertson drive
                          • Bill Kreamer
                            Okay guys you got me. I guess I have to limit what I said to the situation where one is re-using a screw, as I am wont to do. You can strip a long Robertson
                            Message 13 of 29 , Feb 10, 2006
                              Okay guys you got me. I guess I have to limit what I said to the situation
                              where one is re-using a screw, as I am wont to do. You can strip a long
                              Robertson screw on the second shot, whereas a similar Torx screw will go in
                              and out many times, no problem. Both Robertson and Torx screws are
                              available as stainless deck screws. You often get a free Torx bit in the
                              box of screws. It's at the bottom, I guess to prevent guys like me from
                              filching them. Yeah, I need to get a clutch drill soon. Seen any deals?
                              What's your model preference?



                              Full Tilt Bill <wicked grin>



                              _____

                              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              Nels
                              Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:14 PM
                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [bolger] Robertson (Square drive) Screws



                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Bill,
                              >
                              > I own an Architectural Millwork firm. We use predominantly #2
                              > Robertson drive screws. I've never seen anyone strip one out. I
                              have
                              > to say, that would take a bit of talent (did you ever have the
                              > nickname FullTiltBill?) <Grin>. We do use mostly cordless drills
                              with
                              > adjustable clutch settings to avoid such mishaps. I've never used
                              Torx
                              > screws in any quantity - are they (as they appear) significantly
                              more
                              > resistant to stripping out the heads?
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              > David Graybeal
                              > Portland, OR.
                              >
                              > "Moderation in all things, especially moderation"
                              >
                              > *********************

                              I have never had the experience of ever stripping out a Robertson
                              screw when driving it by hand in over 30 years of using them.

                              I highly recommend your method David, in using a driver with an
                              adjustable clutch, because it is possible if driving into hardwood,
                              with no pilot hole, to strip out the head - or twist it off - with a
                              powerful driver.

                              Two other possible errors I have witnessed, is using a smaller size
                              bit to drive a size larger screw and using a driver bit that is worn
                              out so the edges are rounded. If the bit won't hold the screw by
                              itself it is either the wrong bit or it is worn out.

                              I have only seen torx screws that are meant for metal work. Was not
                              aware of them being available for use in woodwork. Not that I see
                              any advantage in them.

                              Nels





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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Bill Kreamer
                              Harry, Robertson and Torx screws are available as stainless deck screws. You often get a free Torx bit in the box of screws. It s at the bottom, I guess to
                              Message 14 of 29 , Feb 10, 2006
                                Harry, Robertson and Torx screws are available as stainless deck screws.
                                You often get a free Torx bit in the box of screws. It's at the bottom, I
                                guess to prevent guys like me from filching them. Yeah, I need to get a
                                clutch drill soon. Seen any deals? What's your model preference?



                                Full Tilt Bill <wicked grin>





                                _____

                                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                Harry James
                                Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:37 AM
                                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding



                                I have had better luck with the square drives over phillips and I have
                                had very good results with the torx drives. The smaller ones will last
                                through a couple hundred screws, the larger ones seem to never fail. The
                                problem is finding marine grade screws with torx heads. You got a source?

                                HJ

                                Bill Kreamer wrote:
                                > Has anyone stripped Robertson square drive screws as often as me? I
                                switched
                                > to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.
                                >
                                > - Bill
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > _____
                                >
                                > From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                > Nels
                                > Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:28 AM
                                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >> My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
                                >> learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
                                >> screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
                                >> are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
                                >> Micro you are building.
                                >>
                                >>
                                > With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
                                > learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
                                > screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
                                >
                                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
                                >
                                > I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
                                > advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
                                > the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
                                > old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.
                                >
                                > http://www.mcfeelys.com/
                                >
                                > Nels
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >




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                                horses
                                - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • David
                                Wicked Bill, We use our Makita 14.4 volt drill drivers & impact drivers every day. There are many good brands out there. Bosch, Panasonic, DeWalt, PorterCable,
                                Message 15 of 29 , Feb 10, 2006
                                  Wicked Bill,

                                  We use our Makita 14.4 volt drill drivers & impact drivers every day.
                                  There are many good brands out there. Bosch, Panasonic, DeWalt,
                                  PorterCable, etc. Some are even having good luck with the lower-priced
                                  Ryobi (for lighter or less frequent use, I'd imagine).

                                  Since you're presumably buying for your personal use, there's one
                                  thing I'd highly recommend. Heft the dang thing... with a battery in
                                  it. There are several perfectly good ones out there that felt either
                                  too fat, or too skinny to me... or too heavy, or badly balanced,. Look
                                  for good balance, and a good fit in your hand. Keep in mind that a
                                  minor feeling of misfit, or too much weight, will multiply
                                  exponentially as you drive larger quantities of fasteners. Hello sore
                                  muscles, achy arms, and/or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

                                  I've been happy, so far, with the stuff I've gotten from McFeely's.
                                  BTW, keep in mind that Stainless screws are gonna be softer, and strip
                                  out easier than your typical hardened steel screw. Silicon Bronze,
                                  even more so. Solid Brass, more than that. Also, folks are gonna find
                                  much easier access to square drives, in a much larger selection, than
                                  either torx or butterfly drives. For those, one has to track down your
                                  own local industrial fasteners distributor. Some of them won't sell
                                  retail, or in smaller (small boat) quantities.

                                  Happy Shopping (and screwing),
                                  David Graybeal
                                  Portland, OR

                                  "It's much easier to be critical than to be correct" -- Benjamin Disraeli

                                  *************

                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Harry, Robertson and Torx screws are available as stainless deck screws.

                                  > You often get a free Torx bit in the box of screws. It's at the
                                  bottom, I guess to prevent guys like me from filching them. Yeah, I
                                  need to get a clutch drill soon. Seen any deals? What's your model
                                  preference?
                                  >
                                  > Full Tilt Bill <wicked grin>
                                • derbyrm
                                  I really like my 18 volt Ryobi now that they offer replacement batteries at a reasonable price. That said, my wife s 9.6 volt Ryobi is much lighter and easier
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Feb 10, 2006
                                    I really like my 18 volt Ryobi now that they offer replacement batteries at
                                    a reasonable price. That said, my wife's 9.6 volt Ryobi is much lighter and
                                    easier to handle, and my 18 volt Harbor Freight unit does the job despite
                                    its rough looks.

                                    Get two batteries and the charger.

                                    Roger
                                    derbyrm@...
                                    http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...>

                                    <snip>
                                    >Yeah, I need to get a clutch drill soon. Seen any deals?
                                    > What's your model preference?

                                    > Full Tilt Bill <wicked grin>
                                  • Nels
                                    ... day. ... priced ... Dang David... Once again I have to agree;-) I have tried several cordless drills over the years and my original Makita was the most
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Feb 10, 2006
                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Wicked Bill,
                                      >
                                      > We use our Makita 14.4 volt drill drivers & impact drivers every
                                      day.
                                      > There are many good brands out there. Bosch, Panasonic, DeWalt,
                                      > PorterCable, etc. Some are even having good luck with the lower-
                                      priced
                                      > Ryobi (for lighter or less frequent use, I'd imagine).

                                      >
                                      Dang David...
                                      Once again I have to agree;-) I have tried several cordless drills
                                      over the years and my original Makita was the most reliable and user
                                      friendly in my experience.

                                      If buying new be sure to purchase one with Ni-MH batteries.They
                                      don't tend to develop internal shorts like the old Ni-Cads.

                                      "Nickel Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) do not contain any heavy metals such
                                      as lead, mercury, or cadmium, and they can be recharged about 1,000
                                      times. Ni-MH batteries having high mAh (milliamp hour) ratings will
                                      last longest. Rechargeable batteries will save you money over time
                                      and can help to reduce household waste."

                                      The best boatbuilding robertson screws are sold by McFeely's for
                                      reasons given at their website:

                                      http://www.mcfeelys.com/subcat.asp?subcat=20.1.5.8

                                      They also have cordless driver kits.

                                      I have no affiliation whatsoever with McFeely's just sharing what I
                                      have heard. I am a Lee Valley fan myself:-)

                                      Nels
                                    • Clyde Wisner
                                      Last year I bought a 14.4 Makita hammer driver from McFeeley s and Makita threw in a 3/8 drill motor, 2 batteries and charger. Not free but I ve been very
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Feb 11, 2006
                                        Last year I bought a 14.4 Makita hammer driver from McFeeley's and
                                        Makita threw in a 3/8 drill motor, 2 batteries and charger. Not free but
                                        I've been very happy and driving drywall screws into very dry, 5 yr old
                                        framing in the housed that never gets done. Clyde

                                        Nels wrote:

                                        >--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>Wicked Bill,
                                        >>
                                        >>We use our Makita 14.4 volt drill drivers & impact drivers every
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >day.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>There are many good brands out there. Bosch, Panasonic, DeWalt,
                                        >>PorterCable, etc. Some are even having good luck with the lower-
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >priced
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>Ryobi (for lighter or less frequent use, I'd imagine).
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Dang David...
                                        >
                                        >



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Nels
                                        ... but ... old ... I like the way McFeeley s talk about their stuff - like they actually really use it themselves! Talk about your boat porn. How about tool
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Feb 11, 2006
                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Last year I bought a 14.4 Makita hammer driver from McFeeley's and
                                          > Makita threw in a 3/8 drill motor, 2 batteries and charger. Not free
                                          but
                                          > I've been very happy and driving drywall screws into very dry, 5 yr
                                          old
                                          > framing in the housed that never gets done. Clyde
                                          >

                                          I like the way McFeeley's talk about their stuff - like they actually
                                          really use it themselves!

                                          Talk about your boat porn. How about tool porn? This one has me
                                          drooling:-)

                                          http://www.mcfeelys.com/product.asp?ProductID=MK-X400

                                          Nels
                                        • Harry James
                                          Where are you getting torx stainless? HJ
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Feb 11, 2006
                                            Where are you getting torx stainless?

                                            HJ

                                            Bill Kreamer wrote:
                                            > Okay guys you got me. I guess I have to limit what I said to the situation
                                            > where one is re-using a screw, as I am wont to do. You can strip a long
                                            > Robertson screw on the second shot, whereas a similar Torx screw will go in
                                            > and out many times, no problem. Both Robertson and Torx screws are
                                            > available as stainless deck screws. You often get a free Torx bit in the
                                            > box of screws. It's at the bottom, I guess to prevent guys like me from
                                            > filching them. Yeah, I need to get a clutch drill soon. Seen any deals?
                                            > What's your model preference?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
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