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Cheap epoxy

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  • Bruce Hallman
    FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at Raka sells at $44/gal Duckworks $45/gal and Aeromarine $36/gal [plus shipping]
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 27, 2006
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      FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at

      Raka sells at $44/gal
      Duckworks $45/gal
      and Aeromarine $36/gal

      [plus shipping]

      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
    • Nels
      ... That doesn t seem to be the kind he recommends for boatbuilding though. It is $40/G still cheaper than others depending on shipping distances of course.
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 27, 2006
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
        >
        > FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at
        >
        > Raka sells at $44/gal
        > Duckworks $45/gal
        > and Aeromarine $36/gal
        >
        > [plus shipping]
        >
        > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
        >
        That doesn't seem to be the kind he recommends for boatbuilding
        though. It is $40/G still cheaper than others depending on shipping
        distances of course.

        http://www.jgreer.com/

        Nels
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... His red mixes 1:1 and quote ...is widely used by people building boats, airplanes... His green mixes 2:1 and quote ideal for many functions- Boat
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 27, 2006
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          > That doesn't seem to be the kind he recommends for boatbuilding
          > though.
          > http://www.jgreer.com/
          > Nels

          His 'red' mixes 1:1 and quote "...is widely used by people building
          boats, airplanes..."

          His 'green' mixes 2:1 and quote "ideal for many functions- Boat and
          aircraft building, "poured" countertops and general fiberglass and
          carbon fiber laminating."

          I have never used 1:1 epoxy, but once every hundred uses, I mix the
          1:2 stuff backwards 2:1 and end up with a big mess! 1:1 epoxy is
          *very* appealing to me!
        • Nels
          ... Yes I would agree that 1:1 epoxy would be ideal and the 2:1 is the newer one of the two, so one has to wonder why it was developed? I would call the
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 27, 2006
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
            >
            > I have never used 1:1 epoxy, but once every hundred uses, I mix the
            > 1:2 stuff backwards 2:1 and end up with a big mess! 1:1 epoxy is
            > *very* appealing to me!


            Yes I would agree that 1:1 epoxy would be ideal and the 2:1 is the
            newer one of the two, so one has to wonder why it was developed?

            I would call the toll-free number if ordering and find out which
            would be the best for pre-coating and sealing plywood. Also filling
            glass cloth.

            Perhaps the 2:1 ration type has more penetration ability? He terms
            the red one as having "a medium syrup viscosity" but does not
            mention the viscosity of the green type.

            He also mentions the green version as 'Great for building a "Stitch
            and Glue" boat, Cedar strip kayak or canoe as well as for cold
            molded wood boat or fiberglass boats-' But does not say why...

            Most companies prescribe a low viscosity type for penetrating and
            sealing wood.

            So maybe the red for sealing and the green for glueing and if you
            want a heavier coating? I could imagine the green as a great bottom
            coat mixed with carbon powder:-)

            Nels
          • Nels
            Hi Bruce, I also noticed the price he quotes for boat cloth as being quite reasonable. $4 a yard for 50 5.8 oz. I have heard there are some glassing
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 27, 2006
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              Hi Bruce,

              I also noticed the price he quotes for "boat cloth" as being quite
              reasonable. $4 a yard for 50" 5.8 oz. I have heard there are some
              glassing materials coming from China that are very cheap, but the
              quality is not up the standards of American cloth. So this would be
              interesting to enquire about as well as which epoxy to use with it.

              Nels

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I have never used 1:1 epoxy, but once every hundred uses, I mix the
              > > 1:2 stuff backwards 2:1 and end up with a big mess! 1:1 epoxy is
              > > *very* appealing to me!
            • Joe Tribulato
              My Epoxy Ratio Scale article in Duckworks at http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/articles/scale/index.cfm shows a simple proven shop made tool that you may
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 27, 2006
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                My "Epoxy Ratio Scale" article in Duckworks at
                http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/articles/scale/index.cfm
                shows a simple proven shop made tool that you may find useful for
                whichever brand you choose. See also some feedback in Letters, May 05.

                I have long used System Three. I get it locally, but if I had to have
                it shipped I would give a nod to Duckworks to support that the great
                e-zine he provides for free.

                Joe T

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                >
                > I have never used 1:1 epoxy, but once every hundred uses, I mix the
                > 1:2 stuff backwards 2:1 and end up with a big mess! 1:1 epoxy is
                > *very* appealing to me!
                >
              • Nels
                ... 05. ... I see you have only built 35 boats. So I wonder if it is well enough proven yet? Just kidding - that looks like great idea and I will try it out.
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 27, 2006
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                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Tribulato" <scsbmsjoe@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > My "Epoxy Ratio Scale" article in Duckworks at
                  > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/articles/scale/index.cfm
                  > shows a simple proven shop made tool that you may find useful for
                  > whichever brand you choose. See also some feedback in Letters, May
                  05.
                  >
                  > I have long used System Three. I get it locally, but if I had to have
                  > it shipped I would give a nod to Duckworks to support that the great
                  > e-zine he provides for free.
                  >
                  > Joe T

                  I see you have only built 35 boats. So I wonder if it is well enough
                  proven yet?

                  Just kidding - that looks like great idea and I will try it out.

                  Would drawing a circle the same size as the washer and exactly
                  centered over each line be useful for a guy has trouble seeing
                  straight?

                  I'm thinking of if Lenihan uses it;-)

                  Nels
                • Joe Tribulato
                  Nels You can customize the scale to your own taste, so long as you adhere to the principle of the thing. I am a minimalist so I like to keeep it simple. BTW,
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 27, 2006
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                    Nels

                    You can customize the scale to your own taste, so long as you adhere
                    to the principle of the thing. I am a minimalist so I like to keeep it
                    simple. BTW, hull #36 in progress, a 20ft White strip canoe from
                    Gilpatrick's book for a friend . Duckworks forum would be my choice to
                    bring it public.

                    Joe T

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
                    >> I see you have only built 35 boats. So I wonder if it is well
                    >>enough proven yet?
                    >
                    > Just kidding - that looks like great idea and I will try it out.
                    >
                    > Would drawing a circle the same size as the washer and exactly
                    > centered over each line be useful for a guy has trouble seeing
                    > straight?
                    >
                    > I'm thinking of if Lenihan uses it;-)
                    >
                    > Nels
                    >
                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Tribulato" <scsbmsjoe@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > My "Epoxy Ratio Scale" article in Duckworks at
                    > > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/articles/scale/index.cfm
                    > > shows a simple proven shop made tool that you may find useful for
                    > > whichever brand you choose. See also some feedback in Letters, May
                    > > 05.
                    > > I have long used System Three. I get it locally, but if I had to
                    > > have it shipped I would give a nod to Duckworks to support that
                    > > great e-zine he provides for free.
                    > >
                    > > Joe T
                  • gbship
                    ... Try this site: http://www.fgci.com/ Epoxy there is about $33 a gallon for 1:1 and slightly more for their 2:1, 3:1 & 4:1. They make two 1:1 varieties, one
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 28, 2006
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                      >
                      > FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at
                      >
                      > Raka sells at $44/gal
                      > Duckworks $45/gal
                      > and Aeromarine $36/gal
                      >
                      > [plus shipping]
                      >
                      > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
                      >
                      Try this site: http://www.fgci.com/

                      Epoxy there is about $33 a gallon for 1:1 and slightly more for their
                      2:1, 3:1 & 4:1. They make two 1:1 varieties, one intended for gluing
                      and fiberglassing and the other just for coating wood. The former is
                      a thick epoxy and if I'm using it for coating, I usually thin it a
                      little with acetone. For fiberglassing, use a plastic spreader as it
                      goes on too thick with a brush and I don't like to thin it if using
                      it for gluing or fiberglassing. I've used this stuff on 3-4 boats
                      without a problem.

                      Couple caveats: the thick 1:1 didn't work well with some carbon fiber
                      I'm using while playing around strengthening a carbon windsurfer
                      mast. I had to go with the much thinner WEST epoxy for good results.
                      (The higher ration FGCI may be thinner and have worked, but I haven't
                      used them and didn't have any on hand.) Also, if you order, specify
                      getting it in plastic bottles. They used to (and may still) ship it
                      in paint cans if you don't specify, which makes pouring and measuring
                      a messy pain . . .

                      Gary Blankenship
                    • Bruce Hallman
                      ... The prices look good, but their website leaves you guessing about too many things!
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 28, 2006
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                        > Try this site: http://www.fgci.com/

                        The prices look good, but their website leaves you guessing about too
                        many things!
                      • Patrick Crockett
                        I started with Raka on my Windsprint. It blushed so badly that I never was able to clean it all off -- I still have the occasional square-foor area of glass
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 28, 2006
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                          I started with Raka on my Windsprint. It blushed so badly that I never
                          was able to clean it all off -- I still have the occasional square-foor
                          area of glass cloth peel off now and then. I confess that I built in an
                          especially humid spring (and outdoors), but I've since used MAS in
                          similar conditions and had no problem with blushing. To me it's worth
                          paying twice as much and not putting up with the scrubbing, sanding,
                          scraping that goes with a formulation that blushes readily. Of course,
                          if you are building in the desert, YMMV.

                          Patrick

                          Bruce Hallman wrote:

                          >FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at
                          >
                          >Raka sells at $44/gal
                          >Duckworks $45/gal
                          >and Aeromarine $36/gal
                          >
                          >[plus shipping]
                          >
                          >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
                          >
                          >
                          >Bolger rules!!!
                          >- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                          >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
                          >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                          >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                          >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                          >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Gene T
                          http://www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html I have had great luck with epoxy purchased here. the 1.5 galloon kit is $56 so about $38 a gallon at that quantity.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 28, 2006
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                            http://www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html

                            I have had great luck with epoxy purchased here. the 1.5 galloon kit is $56 so about $38 a gallon at that quantity. Price varies up and down with quantity. The have thick and thin, fast and slow. I use the 2:1 slow stuff and take my time letting it cure. Oh, and I have never had a problem with or seen any amine blush that I know of with the slow stuff. Otherwise, I'd go to duckworks....

                            Gene T.

                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 13:56:46
                            Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Cheap epoxy

                            > Try this site: http://www.fgci.com/

                            The prices look good, but their website leaves you guessing about too
                            many things!
                          • chrisbfeller
                            I like US Composites 2:1 Blush free hardener with thin resin. I find this is as thin and workable as West System but half the price at about $31.00-$36.00 per
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 28, 2006
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                              I like US Composites 2:1 Blush free hardener with thin resin. I find
                              this is as thin and workable as West System but half the price at
                              about $31.00-$36.00 per gallon depending on how much you buy. With US
                              Composites, RAKA and others I am amazed that West System is still in
                              business.

                              Chris
                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                              >
                              > FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at
                              >
                              > Raka sells at $44/gal
                              > Duckworks $45/gal
                              > and Aeromarine $36/gal
                              >
                              > [plus shipping]
                              >
                              > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
                              >
                            • chrisbfeller
                              Raka has a new non-blushing hardener. Actualy it is all I have used from RAKA. I use it in my garage in the winter. As a result it gets used in cold damp
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 28, 2006
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                                Raka has a new non-blushing hardener. Actualy it is all I have used
                                from RAKA. I use it in my garage in the winter. As a result it gets
                                used in cold damp conditions. I have never had any trouble with
                                blushing from that hardener. I have also used MAS and consider it to
                                be first rate. I would just encourage you to try RAKA's new hardener.
                                I find it combined with there thin resin to be just as good as MAS and
                                for a much lower cost.

                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@n...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I started with Raka on my Windsprint. It blushed so badly that I never
                                > was able to clean it all off -- I still have the occasional square-foor
                                > area of glass cloth peel off now and then. I confess that I built in an
                                > especially humid spring (and outdoors), but I've since used MAS in
                                > similar conditions and had no problem with blushing. To me it's worth
                                > paying twice as much and not putting up with the scrubbing, sanding,
                                > scraping that goes with a formulation that blushes readily. Of course,
                                > if you are building in the desert, YMMV.
                                >
                                > Patrick
                                >
                                > Bruce Hallman wrote:
                                >
                                > >FWIW, I was just noticing that epoxy at
                                > >
                                > >Raka sells at $44/gal
                                > >Duckworks $45/gal
                                > >and Aeromarine $36/gal
                                > >
                                > >[plus shipping]
                                > >
                                > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584666877
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >Bolger rules!!!
                                > >- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                                > >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
                                dead horses
                                > >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
                                posts
                                > >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                > >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                                01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                > >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Eric OHiggins
                                I ve been using vinegar to clean my epoxy mixing area and to wahs with at the end of each session -- partly because it is so effective in cleaning known spills
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 30, 2006
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                                  I've been using vinegar to clean my epoxy mixing area
                                  and to wahs with at the end of each session -- partly
                                  because it is so effective in cleaning known spills
                                  but also as a precaution because it is quite harmless,
                                  unlike alcohol or acetone. Pickle juice works just as
                                  well as clean vinegar.

                                  It works so well, I assumed it was reacting
                                  chemically with the epoxy. So I queried System 3 on
                                  the matter and got the following reply. Much of it is
                                  standard advice, but please note that vinegar turns
                                  epoxy into soap!
                                  No attempt was made to edit the advice -- just
                                  inserting Q: and A: to identify the voices.
                                  Hope some parts are of interest to you.
                                  Eric
                                  From: "System Three Support" <support@...>
                                  Date: January 21, 2006 2:05:13 PM PST (CA)
                                  To: "Eric O'Higgins" <ohiggins@...>
                                  Subject: RE: Support Request Form
                                  Reply-To: <support@...>

                                  See below:

                                  System Three Resins, Inc.
                                  Technical Support
                                  253/333-8118
                                  www.systemthree.com

                                  Request =
                                  Q: If you could offer some advice on the dangers of
                                  using vinegar, I
                                  will post to the Bolgerbuilders email group which now
                                  numbers about 2720
                                  members.
                                  I found the reference in the System Three FAQs to
                                  vinegar for cleaning up
                                  unmixed epoxy -- and would add that it seems to work
                                  equally well at
                                  cleaning up mixed but uncured.
                                  A: Vinegar contains acetic acid (about 5%). Epoxy
                                  hardeners contain amines.
                                  Amines are alkaline. Acids react with alkaline
                                  materials. In the case of
                                  epoxy resin this reaction produces a soap-like
                                  material that can emulsify
                                  the epoxy so that it can be removed with water.

                                  Q: I've been using it to clean epoxy off my hands
                                  when it gets through the
                                  gloves.
                                  A: The best practice to avoid skin sensitivity is to
                                  never get it on your
                                  hands. Epoxy will not get through disposable vinyl
                                  gloves unless they tear.
                                  When this happens the prudent thing to do is to dry
                                  wipe your hands and then
                                  wash with soap and warm water. Put on a fresh pair of
                                  disposable glove when
                                  your hands are dry.
                                  Q: Acetone and even methyl alcohol just help dissolve
                                  the epoxy and help carry
                                  it into the skin (I read that too) but vinegar feels
                                  like it reacts
                                  chemically with the epoxy because all stickiness
                                  disappears at first contact
                                  with the vinegar.
                                  A: Maybe so but there are no studies that show that
                                  wiping your epoxy covered
                                  hands off with vinegar makes you less prone to become
                                  sensitized than if
                                  you'd used a solvent.

                                  Q: The current myth in user land is that vinegar is
                                  the best cleanup for the
                                  entire project. I've used vinegar on scrapers and
                                  brushes and mixing
                                  vessels but I can smell vinegar days later because it
                                  is not as volatile as
                                  the solvents -- so I won't let it near anything I want
                                  to use on the boat.
                                  A: You smell the acetic acid. Some people don't
                                  mind if their boat smells
                                  like a freshly tossed salad!

                                  Q: Problem or just more of my compulsive behavior?
                                  A: We'll leave this one for you to answer. Your
                                  first line of defense should
                                  be to avoid epoxy/hardener contact altogether. Having
                                  to clean your hands
                                  with ANYTHING simply shows that the first defensive
                                  line has failed and you
                                  have become exposed. Skin sensitization is cause by
                                  prolonged and REPEATED
                                  exposure and exposure is what you want to avoid.


                                  Q: Have-I-rediscovered-the-wheel dept:
                                  Wrapping glass over the edge of exposed endgrain
                                  plywood is much easier if
                                  the curing glass/ epoxy is covered with a strip of PE
                                  plastic dropsheet.
                                  Even radiused and precoated, the epoxy drains away
                                  from the angle and may
                                  leave air bubbles under the cloth.
                                  Place the PE strip, smooth the bubbles out past the
                                  edge and the plastic
                                  prevents air getting back in and voila!, it's the poor
                                  man's vacuum bag!

                                  A: We usually don't use PE because it can trap air
                                  between the fiberglass and
                                  plastic and leave a mark in the epoxy on the surface
                                  of the fiberglass.
                                  Peel ply accomplishes the same this but being porous
                                  does not leave a mark.






                                  __________________________________________________
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                                • Clyde Wisner
                                  If you haven t got mixed epoxy in your hair yet, you can t really appreciate vinegar. Clyde
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 30, 2006
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                                    If you haven't got mixed epoxy in your hair yet, you can't really
                                    appreciate vinegar. Clyde

                                    Eric OHiggins wrote:

                                    >I've been using vinegar to clean my epoxy mixing area
                                    >and to wahs with at the end of each session -- partly
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Sam Glasscock
                                    ... Shears work pretty good, too, applied liberally, in my experience. Sam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jan 30, 2006
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                                      --- Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:

                                      > If you haven't got mixed epoxy in your hair yet, you
                                      > can't really
                                      > appreciate vinegar. Clyde
                                      >
                                      Shears work pretty good, too, applied liberally, in my
                                      experience. Sam

                                      __________________________________________________
                                      Do You Yahoo!?
                                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                                    • fritzdfk
                                      ... I don t remember where exactly I heard this but I have actual experience proving it works. If you get epoxy in your hair go take a shower, bypass the
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jan 30, 2006
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                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@y...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- Clyde Wisner <clydewis@c...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > If you haven't got mixed epoxy in your hair yet, you
                                        > > can't really
                                        > > appreciate vinegar. Clyde
                                        > >
                                        > Shears work pretty good, too, applied liberally, in my
                                        > experience. Sam


                                        I don't remember where exactly I heard this but I have actual
                                        experience proving it works. If you get epoxy in your hair go take a
                                        shower, bypass the shampoo and go straight to conditioner. The
                                        conditioner seems to work just like vinegar and washes the epoxy right
                                        out.

                                        fritz
                                      • Philip Ridenauer
                                        When I was working at Cutts and Case in Oxford, MD we didn t mess around with that sissy, environmentally friendly vinegar or even alcohol. No sirree, Bob.
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jan 31, 2006
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                                          When I was working at Cutts and Case in Oxford, MD we didn't mess around with that sissy, environmentally friendly vinegar or even alcohol. No sirree, Bob. We were real men and cleaned up with acetone. Did it all the time and I never had any probpe,wmdaodkslmmmswselkfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

                                          Eric OHiggins <chaemeocyparis@...> wrote:

                                          I've been using vinegar to clean my epoxy mixing area
                                          and to wahs with at the end of each session -- partly
                                          because it is so effective in cleaning known spills
                                          but also as a precaution because it is quite harmless,
                                          unlike alcohol or acetone. Pickle juice works just as
                                          well as clean vinegar.

                                          It works so well, I assumed it was reacting
                                          chemically with the epoxy. So I queried System 3 on
                                          the matter and got the following reply. Much of it is
                                          standard advice, but please note that vinegar turns
                                          epoxy into soap!
                                          No attempt was made to edit the advice -- just
                                          inserting Q: and A: to identify the voices.
                                          Hope some parts are of interest to you.
                                          Eric
                                          From: "System Three Support" <support@...>
                                          Date: January 21, 2006 2:05:13 PM PST (CA)
                                          To: "Eric O'Higgins" <ohiggins@...>
                                          Subject: RE: Support Request Form
                                          Reply-To: <support@...>

                                          See below:

                                          System Three Resins, Inc.
                                          Technical Support
                                          253/333-8118
                                          www.systemthree.com

                                          Request =
                                          Q: If you could offer some advice on the dangers of
                                          using vinegar, I
                                          will post to the Bolgerbuilders email group which now
                                          numbers about 2720
                                          members.
                                          I found the reference in the System Three FAQs to
                                          vinegar for cleaning up
                                          unmixed epoxy -- and would add that it seems to work
                                          equally well at
                                          cleaning up mixed but uncured.
                                          A: Vinegar contains acetic acid (about 5%). Epoxy
                                          hardeners contain amines.
                                          Amines are alkaline. Acids react with alkaline
                                          materials. In the case of
                                          epoxy resin this reaction produces a soap-like
                                          material that can emulsify
                                          the epoxy so that it can be removed with water.

                                          Q: I've been using it to clean epoxy off my hands
                                          when it gets through the
                                          gloves.
                                          A: The best practice to avoid skin sensitivity is to
                                          never get it on your
                                          hands. Epoxy will not get through disposable vinyl
                                          gloves unless they tear.
                                          When this happens the prudent thing to do is to dry
                                          wipe your hands and then
                                          wash with soap and warm water. Put on a fresh pair of
                                          disposable glove when
                                          your hands are dry.
                                          Q: Acetone and even methyl alcohol just help dissolve
                                          the epoxy and help carry
                                          it into the skin (I read that too) but vinegar feels
                                          like it reacts
                                          chemically with the epoxy because all stickiness
                                          disappears at first contact
                                          with the vinegar.
                                          A: Maybe so but there are no studies that show that
                                          wiping your epoxy covered
                                          hands off with vinegar makes you less prone to become
                                          sensitized than if
                                          you'd used a solvent.

                                          Q: The current myth in user land is that vinegar is
                                          the best cleanup for the
                                          entire project. I've used vinegar on scrapers and
                                          brushes and mixing
                                          vessels but I can smell vinegar days later because it
                                          is not as volatile as
                                          the solvents -- so I won't let it near anything I want
                                          to use on the boat.
                                          A: You smell the acetic acid. Some people don't
                                          mind if their boat smells
                                          like a freshly tossed salad!

                                          Q: Problem or just more of my compulsive behavior?
                                          A: We'll leave this one for you to answer. Your
                                          first line of defense should
                                          be to avoid epoxy/hardener contact altogether. Having
                                          to clean your hands
                                          with ANYTHING simply shows that the first defensive
                                          line has failed and you
                                          have become exposed. Skin sensitization is cause by
                                          prolonged and REPEATED
                                          exposure and exposure is what you want to avoid.


                                          Q: Have-I-rediscovered-the-wheel dept:
                                          Wrapping glass over the edge of exposed endgrain
                                          plywood is much easier if
                                          the curing glass/ epoxy is covered with a strip of PE
                                          plastic dropsheet.
                                          Even radiused and precoated, the epoxy drains away
                                          from the angle and may
                                          leave air bubbles under the cloth.
                                          Place the PE strip, smooth the bubbles out past the
                                          edge and the plastic
                                          prevents air getting back in and voila!, it's the poor
                                          man's vacuum bag!

                                          A: We usually don't use PE because it can trap air
                                          between the fiberglass and
                                          plastic and leave a mark in the epoxy on the surface
                                          of the fiberglass.
                                          Peel ply accomplishes the same this but being porous
                                          does not leave a mark.






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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Derek Waters
                                          There was a day a couple of summers ago when I ran out of stainless screws in the middle of a boatbuilding session. Jumping into the truck, I drove the hour or
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jan 31, 2006
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                                            There was a day a couple of summers ago when I ran out of stainless screws
                                            in the middle of a boatbuilding session. Jumping into the truck, I drove the
                                            hour or so to the nearest supplier. Walking out of the store, I ran my hand
                                            through my hair. The sticky gobbet I encountered was [of course] epoxy, and
                                            in the summer heat, it could only be a short time before it congealed.
                                            Forseeing imminent 'boat-builder pattern' baldness, I ran into the nearest
                                            fast food joint, which happened to be a sub-sandwich emporium:
                                            "Do you dress your salads with vinegar?"
                                            "Uh, yeah, red wine vine..."
                                            "Please give me some in a cup"

                                            The staff no doubt entertained their friends with the story of the guy who
                                            asked for a cup of vinegar and then with obvious pleasure, poured it over
                                            his own head.

                                            Good stuff, vinegar.

                                            cheers
                                            Derek
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