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Old Motorsailer (ADA) vs. New Motorsailer (cutwater)

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  • denisnh
    Hi. I ve been reviewing the Fast Motorsailer in Boats with an Open Mind . I realize this was a redesign of an existing FMS to allow for larger accomadations.
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 29, 2005
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      Hi. I've been reviewing the Fast Motorsailer in "Boats with an Open
      Mind". I realize this was a redesign of an existing FMS to allow for
      larger accomadations. Was the cutwater used on the new design to allow
      for a "blunter" bow?

      I would like to compare the two designs to see what the differences
      are. I suspect the old motorsailer was a conventional 4 chine hull
      similar to the Chebacco Ver 1, with the exception of the stern half of
      the bottom run being dead flat to allow planing.

      Were there any articles written on the old fast motorsailer? A
      sections diagram is really all I need, but if there was something
      written on Ada with illustrations, that would be great. Even just a
      picture of Ada showing the hull lines would be a big help. This is
      more for my understanding of hulls than anything else, although I have
      been toying with the idea of building an FMS.

      Thanks!
    • gbship
      Your post left me a bit confused, as the last picture in the Fast Motorsailer chapter in BWAOM is the original Ada. It does not have the box keel. There was a
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 29, 2005
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        Your post left me a bit confused, as the last picture in the Fast
        Motorsailer chapter in BWAOM is the original Ada. It does not have
        the box keel.

        There was a write up on the original Ada but I don't recall for sure
        where. Probably in Bolger's regular column in Messing About in Boats.
        Maybe someone has their back issues organized and can find it
        readily. Your right, it is the "four-chine" model with bottom, bilge
        and topside panels making up the hull. It's 26 feet long and I think
        around 6 feet or so in beam --- I remember thinking it was narrow for
        it's length. In hull shape, think of an enlarged Gypsy hull. But the
        buttom doesn't tuck up like it does for Gypsy because the straight
        run enhances its speed as a power boat. For the same reason, the back
        part of the boat isn't narrower than the midsection, to enhance power
        stability. I think it has a pretty sizeable dagger leeboard that
        clips on the side. The cabin shown in the picture in BWAOM is bigger
        than what Bolger designed, but as he noted, it's still a pretty small
        cuddy. As designed, it enclosed just a v-berth. Obviously, it has
        great cockpit sprawling space . . . It would be a very fast boat to
        build.

        Hope this helps.

        Gary Blankenship



        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "denisnh" <denisnh@y...> wrote:
        > Hi. I've been reviewing the Fast Motorsailer in "Boats with an Open
        > Mind". I realize this was a redesign of an existing FMS to allow
        for
        > larger accomadations. Was the cutwater used on the new design to
        allow
        > for a "blunter" bow?
        >
        > I would like to compare the two designs to see what the differences
        > are. I suspect the old motorsailer was a conventional 4 chine hull
        > similar to the Chebacco Ver 1, with the exception of the stern half
        of
        > the bottom run being dead flat to allow planing.
        >
        > Were there any articles written on the old fast motorsailer? A
        > sections diagram is really all I need, but if there was something
        > written on Ada with illustrations, that would be great. Even just
        a
        > picture of Ada showing the hull lines would be a big help. This is
        > more for my understanding of hulls than anything else, although I
        have
        > been toying with the idea of building an FMS.
        >
        > Thanks!
      • Nels
        ... If you go here and open the last link BILL MCKIBBEN you will see some photos of the enlarged cabin ADA . Bill built the only one to my knowledge.
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 29, 2005
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          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbship" <gbship@c...> wrote:
          > Your post left me a bit confused, as the last picture in the Fast
          > Motorsailer chapter in BWAOM is the original Ada. It does not have
          > the box keel.
          >

          If you go here and open the last link "BILL MCKIBBEN" you will see
          some photos of the enlarged cabin "ADA". Bill built the only one to my
          knowledge.

          http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/gallery.htm

          I think it is similar to the Diablo hull as described in "Build The New
          Instant Boats."

          ADA was originally written up in "30 Odd Boats". Also the newer version
          of FMS has been upgraded with double leeboards and a gaff rig option.

          Nels
        • donschultz8275
          ... Open ... for ... allow ... http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html I pulled out my copy of 30 Odd Boats , and I do NOT see the original FMS, built
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 30, 2005
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "denisnh" <denisnh@y...> wrote:
            > Hi. I've been reviewing the Fast Motorsailer in "Boats with an
            Open
            > Mind". I realize this was a redesign of an existing FMS to allow
            for
            > larger accomadations. Was the cutwater used on the new design to
            allow
            > for a "blunter" bow?

            http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html

            I pulled out my copy of "30 Odd Boats", and I do NOT see the
            original FMS, built by McKibben as Ada in it. Maybe it's in another
            Bolger book.

            The first FMS, Ada, is a 26' version of Diablo. The open outboard
            powered Diablo plans are sold by Payson in a 15' and 18' version.

            http://www.instantboats.com/powerboats.htm

            McKibben's Ada is a 26' version of the Diablo hull family. The
            largest of this family I am aware of is the 31' I/O powered cruiser
            Samuel Clyde, seen in BWAOM. There is a clear resemblence of
            McKibben's cabin mods for Ada and Sam Clyde.

            The new FMS in BWAOM is NOT a redesign of Ada, but an entirely new
            concept, created to get as much boat as possible into a much more
            easily trailered 22' form. Although 4' shorter, the new FMS is a
            much "larger" boat in terms of living space comfort than Ada.
            Bolger succeeded in every design point, though the new design does
            not have the sleek handsome appearance of the earlier Diablo hull
            boats.

            It seems clear to me that home boat builders prefer the practicality
            of the new FMS, as there seem to be more of these built than Ada.

            I have only seen the dipping lug, single lee board drawings of new
            FMS. I was not aware of the gaff rig mod version, and am a bit
            surprised, given Bolger's past promotion of the lug rig. I must add
            that I have never seen a pic of an FMS under sail. Only web pics
            I've seen showed FMS under power with out the lee board and mast
            mounted.

            I would guess that if one had his heart set on building Ada, Bolger
            could sell him the plans, though the essay in BWAOM makes powerful
            arguments for the newer design.

            Don
          • denisnh
            Thanks all for the responses. Bolger actually made the updates to the new FMS for someone overseas who wasn t happy with the dipping lug rig. There is an
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 1, 2005
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              Thanks all for the responses. Bolger actually made the updates to
              the new FMS for someone overseas who wasn't happy with the dipping
              lug rig. There is an article within the last year or so I think in
              Messing About in Boats. I can find that for you if you like.

              I agree. The new FMS is of much greater volume. I've looked over
              the lines and, being a neophyte on boat design, it boggles my mind
              how the box keel gradually turns into conventional multi-chine hull
              as it approaches the stern. To be honest, though, I really don't like
              the cutwater design very much.

              The first thing that came to mind after seeing the picture of Ada at
              the end of the FMS section in the book was Diablo or Sam Clyde! So
              my suspicions proved correct. Many thanks for your inputs!

              Denis

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
              wrote:
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "denisnh" <denisnh@y...> wrote:
              > > Hi. I've been reviewing the Fast Motorsailer in "Boats with an
              > Open
              > > Mind". I realize this was a redesign of an existing FMS to allow
              > for
              > > larger accomadations. Was the cutwater used on the new design to
              > allow
              > > for a "blunter" bow?
              >
              > http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html
              >
              > I pulled out my copy of "30 Odd Boats", and I do NOT see the
              > original FMS, built by McKibben as Ada in it. Maybe it's in
              another
              > Bolger book.
              >
              > The first FMS, Ada, is a 26' version of Diablo. The open outboard
              > powered Diablo plans are sold by Payson in a 15' and 18' version.
              >
              > http://www.instantboats.com/powerboats.htm
              >
              > McKibben's Ada is a 26' version of the Diablo hull family. The
              > largest of this family I am aware of is the 31' I/O powered cruiser
              > Samuel Clyde, seen in BWAOM. There is a clear resemblence of
              > McKibben's cabin mods for Ada and Sam Clyde.
              >
              > The new FMS in BWAOM is NOT a redesign of Ada, but an entirely new
              > concept, created to get as much boat as possible into a much more
              > easily trailered 22' form. Although 4' shorter, the new FMS is a
              > much "larger" boat in terms of living space comfort than Ada.
              > Bolger succeeded in every design point, though the new design does
              > not have the sleek handsome appearance of the earlier Diablo hull
              > boats.
              >
              > It seems clear to me that home boat builders prefer the
              practicality
              > of the new FMS, as there seem to be more of these built than Ada.
              >
              > I have only seen the dipping lug, single lee board drawings of new
              > FMS. I was not aware of the gaff rig mod version, and am a bit
              > surprised, given Bolger's past promotion of the lug rig. I must
              add
              > that I have never seen a pic of an FMS under sail. Only web pics
              > I've seen showed FMS under power with out the lee board and mast
              > mounted.
              >
              > I would guess that if one had his heart set on building Ada, Bolger
              > could sell him the plans, though the essay in BWAOM makes powerful
              > arguments for the newer design.
              >
              > Don
            • Clyde Wisner
              You might contact PCB as he still has plans and presumably, some study material on both versions of FMS. Clyde ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 3, 2005
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                You might contact PCB as he still has plans and presumably, some study
                material on both versions of FMS. Clyde



                Nels wrote:

                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbship" <gbship@c...> wrote:
                > > Your post left me a bit confused, as the last picture in the Fast
                > > Motorsailer chapter in BWAOM is the original Ada. It does not have
                > > the box keel.
                > >
                >
                > If you go here and open the last link "BILL MCKIBBEN" you will see
                > some photos of the enlarged cabin "ADA". Bill built the only one to my
                > knowledge.
                >
                > http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/gallery.htm
                >
                > I think it is similar to the Diablo hull as described in "Build The New
                > Instant Boats."
                >
                > ADA was originally written up in "30 Odd Boats". Also the newer version
                > of FMS has been upgraded with double leeboards and a gaff rig option.
                >
                > Nels
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
                > dead horses
                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                > Fax: (978) 282-1349
                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                >
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                >
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                > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Clyde Wisner
                You might contact PCB as he still has plans and presumably, some study material on both versions of FMS. Clyde ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 3, 2005
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                  You might contact PCB as he still has plans and presumably, some study
                  material on both versions of FMS. Clyde



                  Nels wrote:

                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbship" <gbship@c...> wrote:
                  > > Your post left me a bit confused, as the last picture in the Fast
                  > > Motorsailer chapter in BWAOM is the original Ada. It does not have
                  > > the box keel.
                  > >
                  >
                  > If you go here and open the last link "BILL MCKIBBEN" you will see
                  > some photos of the enlarged cabin "ADA". Bill built the only one to my
                  > knowledge.
                  >
                  > http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/gallery.htm
                  >
                  > I think it is similar to the Diablo hull as described in "Build The New
                  > Instant Boats."
                  >
                  > ADA was originally written up in "30 Odd Boats". Also the newer version
                  > of FMS has been upgraded with double leeboards and a gaff rig option.
                  >
                  > Nels
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Bolger rules!!!
                  > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
                  > dead horses
                  > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                  > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                  > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                  > Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  > * Visit your group "bolger
                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger>" on the web.
                  >
                  > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                  >
                  > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >



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