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Canoe Yawls / Sea Otter 18 in Bolger3?

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  • richardpercolator
    Hi Folks Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl pictured in Bolger3 s Files section?
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 31, 2005
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      Hi Folks

      Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
      pictured in Bolger3's Files section?

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/Canoe%20Yawl/

      Googling revealed little on the subject. I've also seen mention a few
      times of Bolger's admiration of the Rozinante design, and that he was
      at work on a Birdwatcherized version of that design for his own use.
      Any word on that design being completed? Canoe yawls have taken my
      interest of late-- anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
      of the species they'd like to share? I like the Elver design from
      Steve Redmond, among others. It just ocurred to me that Long Micro
      might be considered a "box canoe yawl" in a sense... it fits the
      typical dimensions and spartan character of a canoe yawls but in its
      Bolger-boxy way.

      -Richard
    • pvanderwaart
      ... Don t forget Bolger s Burgandy (30-odd Boats), or the Whaler Ketch from Different Boats.
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 31, 2005
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        > anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
        > of the species they'd like to share?

        Don't forget Bolger's Burgandy (30-odd Boats), or the Whaler Ketch
        from Different Boats.
      • Ed Heins
        I ve always wanted to build an EEL. I think that s a William Garden design canoe yawl, about 20ft. ... From: pvanderwaart To: bolger@yahoogroups.com Sent:
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 31, 2005
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          I've always wanted to build an EEL. I think that's a William Garden design canoe yawl, about 20ft.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: pvanderwaart
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:56 PM
          Subject: [bolger] Re: Canoe Yawls / Sea Otter 18 in Bolger3?


          > anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
          > of the species they'd like to share?

          Don't forget Bolger's Burgandy (30-odd Boats), or the Whaler Ketch
          from Different Boats.





          Bolger rules!!!
          - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
          - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
          - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
          - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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        • Nels
          ... few ... was ... use. ... examples ... its ... Hi Richard, I was the one who posted those photos, but I can t recall where I got them from. It was during a
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 31, 2005
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "richardpercolator" <richard@c...>
            wrote:
            > Hi Folks
            >
            > Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
            > pictured in Bolger3's Files section?
            >
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/Canoe%20Yawl/
            >
            > Googling revealed little on the subject. I've also seen mention a
            few
            > times of Bolger's admiration of the Rozinante design, and that he
            was
            > at work on a Birdwatcherized version of that design for his own
            use.
            > Any word on that design being completed? Canoe yawls have taken my
            > interest of late-- anyone have any favorite or interesting
            examples
            > of the species they'd like to share? I like the Elver design from
            > Steve Redmond, among others. It just ocurred to me that Long Micro
            > might be considered a "box canoe yawl" in a sense... it fits the
            > typical dimensions and spartan character of a canoe yawls but in
            its
            > Bolger-boxy way.
            >
            > -Richard

            Hi Richard,

            I was the one who posted those photos, but I can't recall where I
            got them from. It was during a discussion here about the small canoe
            yawls and the photos were meant to demonstrate how congested things
            get at the stern of a small canoe yawl what with mainsheets, tiller
            and mizzen all converging at the pointed stern. Also I was wanting
            to point out the vulnerability of that big barrel opening into the
            cuddy which is probably pretty cramped with a centerboard trunk. And
            really no practical provision for an engine anywhere.

            I agree wholeheartedly that Long Micro with almost the same W/L
            would have much more interior space all round and be much more
            seaworthy, less rigging and far simpler to build.

            So despite the loveliness of the lines and overall looks, the
            traditional canoe yawl is a pretty complicated little ship, and not
            all that practical.

            Peter Lenihan built an Elver and then a Micro. I believe the Micro
            was a lot more boat, although the Elver is pretty as can be. I
            actually have a set of Elver plans that were never used if you are
            interested. Also a set of Whisp plans as well, both designs by Steve
            Redmond.

            http://www.sredmond.com/index_boat.htm

            Nels
          • Will Samson
            Saw a couple of eels at the Port Townsend festival in 2000 - one open and one with a cabin. Both were absolutely gorgeous! I wonder if there are pics on John
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 1, 2005
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              Saw a couple of eels at the Port Townsend festival in 2000 - one open and one with a cabin. Both were absolutely gorgeous! I wonder if there are pics on John Kohnen's site?

              Bill
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Ed Heins
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 3:24 AM
              Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Canoe Yawls / Sea Otter 18 in Bolger3?


              I've always wanted to build an EEL. I think that's a William Garden design canoe yawl, about 20ft.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: pvanderwaart
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:56 PM
              Subject: [bolger] Re: Canoe Yawls / Sea Otter 18 in Bolger3?


              > anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
              > of the species they'd like to share?

              Don't forget Bolger's Burgandy (30-odd Boats), or the Whaler Ketch
              from Different Boats.





              Bolger rules!!!
              - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
              - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
              - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              Bolger rules!!!
              - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
              - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
              - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



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            • Clyde Wisner
              Richard, Did I send you BDQ copies of the Bolger Camper? If so, do you have a way to post them for Nels? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 1, 2005
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                Richard, Did I send you "BDQ" copies of the Bolger Camper? If so, do you
                have a way to post them for Nels?



                richardpercolator wrote:

                > Hi Folks
                >
                > Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
                > pictured in Bolger3's Files section?
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/Canoe%20Yawl/
                >
                > Googling revealed little on the subject. I've also seen mention a few
                > times of Bolger's admiration of the Rozinante design, and that he was
                > at work on a Birdwatcherized version of that design for his own use.
                > Any word on that design being completed? Canoe yawls have taken my
                > interest of late-- anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
                > of the species they'd like to share? I like the Elver design from
                > Steve Redmond, among others. It just ocurred to me that Long Micro
                > might be considered a "box canoe yawl" in a sense... it fits the
                > typical dimensions and spartan character of a canoe yawls but in its
                > Bolger-boxy way.
                >
                > -Richard
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                > Fax: (978) 282-1349
                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                > * Visit your group "bolger
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger>" on the web.
                >
                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                >
                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Paul
                Only thing I found was this: SEA OTTER 18 David Mossbuilds this delightful gaff rigged yawl. Contact him at David Moss Boatbuilders, Skippool Creek, Wyre
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 1, 2005
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                  Only thing I found was this:

                  "SEA OTTER 18

                  David Mossbuilds this delightful gaff rigged yawl. Contact him at
                  David Moss Boatbuilders, Skippool Creek, Wyre Road, Thornton
                  Cleveleys, Lancs. FY5 5LF. Telephone/Fax: 01253 893830 "

                  Yes, neat. My recent mention of the "Eun Mara" must mean I'm in a
                  traditional looking canoe yawl mood. Found a book in the bookstore
                  about building boat interiors, and fell for the lovely woodwork.

                  Paul


                  > Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
                  > pictured in Bolger3's Files section?
                • Paul
                  Only thing I found was this: SEA OTTER 18 David Mossbuilds this delightful gaff rigged yawl. Contact him at David Moss Boatbuilders, Skippool Creek, Wyre
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 1, 2005
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                    Only thing I found was this:

                    "SEA OTTER 18

                    David Mossbuilds this delightful gaff rigged yawl. Contact him at
                    David Moss Boatbuilders, Skippool Creek, Wyre Road, Thornton
                    Cleveleys, Lancs. FY5 5LF. Telephone/Fax: 01253 893830 "

                    Yes, neat. My recent mention of the "Eun Mara" must mean I'm in a
                    traditional looking canoe yawl mood. Found a book in the bookstore
                    about building boat interiors, and fell for the lovely woodwork.

                    Paul


                    > Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
                    > pictured in Bolger3's Files section?
                  • richardpercolator
                    Hi Clyde Yes, it was to me that Clyde sent the copy of the BDQ article about Camper. I will try to scan those pages tonight and post them for Nels. Too bad I
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 2, 2005
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                      Hi Clyde

                      Yes, it was to me that Clyde sent the copy of the BDQ article about
                      Camper. I will try to scan those pages tonight and post them for
                      Nels. Too bad I sold my scanner a few weeks ago... but I sold it to
                      my neighbor, so I think I can go over to his house and use it there.
                      If the file turns out to be not too large, I'll try to email it to
                      Nels directly.

                      -Richard


                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Clyde Wisner <clydewis@c...> wrote:
                      > Richard, Did I send you "BDQ" copies of the Bolger Camper? If so, do
                      you
                      > have a way to post them for Nels?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > richardpercolator wrote:
                      >
                      > > Hi Folks
                      > >
                      > > Just curious-- anyone know anything about the Sea Otter canoe yawl
                      > > pictured in Bolger3's Files section?
                      > >
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/Canoe%20Yawl/
                      > >
                      > > Googling revealed little on the subject. I've also seen mention a few
                      > > times of Bolger's admiration of the Rozinante design, and that he was
                      > > at work on a Birdwatcherized version of that design for his own use.
                      > > Any word on that design being completed? Canoe yawls have taken my
                      > > interest of late-- anyone have any favorite or interesting examples
                      > > of the species they'd like to share? I like the Elver design from
                      > > Steve Redmond, among others. It just ocurred to me that Long Micro
                      > > might be considered a "box canoe yawl" in a sense... it fits the
                      > > typical dimensions and spartan character of a canoe yawls but in its
                      > > Bolger-boxy way.
                      > >
                      > > -Richard
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Bolger rules!!!
                      > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                      > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
                      posts
                      > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                      > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                      > > Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      > >
                      > > * Visit your group "bolger
                      > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger>" on the web.
                      > >
                      > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                      > >
                      > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Peter Belenky
                      ... design canoe yawl, about 20ft. 18 6 Canoe Yawl Eel Plans available from WoodenBoat here: http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=400-090 Some
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 3, 2005
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                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Heins" <eheins@c...> wrote:
                        > I've always wanted to build an EEL. I think that's a William Garden
                        design canoe yawl, about 20ft.

                        18'6" Canoe Yawl Eel
                        Plans available from WoodenBoat here:
                        http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=400-090

                        Some discussion here:
                        http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?
                        ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001455&p=

                        Pictures:
                        http://www.alberswoodenboats.com/

                        I saw one for sale last Feb. and saved the pictures. I can't find them
                        on the web anymore, so I uploaded them to Bolger5 files/William Garden
                        Eel.

                        -Peter Belenky
                      • Nels
                        ... Hi Richard and Clyde, Thank you kindly for the information you provided. I intend to subscribe to BDQ forthwith and include an extra $7 for that issue
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 3, 2005
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                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "richardpercolator" <richard@c...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Clyde
                          >
                          > Yes, it was to me that Clyde sent the copy of the BDQ article about
                          > Camper. I will try to scan those pages tonight and post them for
                          > Nels. Too bad I sold my scanner a few weeks ago... but I sold it to
                          > my neighbor, so I think I can go over to his house and use it there.
                          > If the file turns out to be not too large, I'll try to email it to
                          > Nels directly.
                          >
                          > -Richard

                          Hi Richard and Clyde,

                          Thank you kindly for the information you provided. I intend to
                          subscribe to BDQ forthwith and include an extra $7 for that issue
                          since I believe that is only fair. Plus it has infor on two other
                          Bolger designs!

                          http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=197-027

                          I was not aware that Phil and Susanne had re-designed Camper in 2004
                          and when I read the article it almost blew my socks off. It seems that
                          the changes were made in response to comments from this group perhaps
                          because almost everyone was suggested by folks here when Camper was
                          discussed at about that time frame.

                          I did not realize that it had a shallow box keel like the clam skiff
                          and now an anti-slap football has been added to the bow section. The
                          forward rails have been re-designed for improved access to the ground
                          tackle together wih anchor catheads and a Jonesport cleat on the bow
                          like Chebacco's. A fairly sophisicated adjustable vang strut has been
                          added between the boom and mast to prevent boom lift. Plus some other
                          minor changes.

                          Mike O'Brien winds up the article with, "I will note that, for his own
                          pleasure, Bolger is drawing a 'Birdwatcher' variant of Rozinante".

                          Does this mean the master is playing instead of doing his homework? We
                          might have to ask Susanne to maybe get him back into harness here for
                          awhile. Yet I would dearly love to see that version of Roz!

                          In the meantime I can see some Camper plans in my future:-) Perfect
                          boat for my Swedish cousins and maybe to be seen sailing alongside
                          Esmeralda.

                          I would strongly suggest that one browse through the back issues of
                          BDQ to see if your dream boat is listed. BDQ provides what amounts to
                          excellent study plans for all the designs it reviews, and actually
                          lines and offsets as well for many of them!

                          Cheers, Nels
                        • Howard Stephenson
                          For a clue as to what this might be like, consider Burgundy, from ch.10 of 30-Odd Boats. It s a 28 flat-bottomed deep-keel cat-ketch with a low cuddy, meant
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 3, 2005
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                            For a clue as to what this might be like, consider Burgundy, from
                            ch.10 of 30-Odd Boats. It's a 28' flat-bottomed deep-keel cat-ketch
                            with a low cuddy, meant to be a simpified version of Herreshoff's
                            Rozinante, at perhaps one third the cost. I guess a Birdwatcher
                            wersion of Burgundy would have that design's slot-cabin.

                            Howard

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:

                            > Mike O'Brien winds up the article with, "I will note that, for his
                            own
                            > pleasure, Bolger is drawing a 'Birdwatcher' variant of Rozinante".
                          • bharbo@online.no
                            ... Any time!! Bjørn ready to take Esmeralda for a sail for the first time in two years!
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 5, 2005
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                              "Nels" <arvent@...> writes:


                              > In the meantime I can see some Camper plans in my future:-) Perfect
                              > boat for my Swedish cousins and maybe to be seen sailing alongside
                              > Esmeralda.

                              Any time!!

                              Bjørn
                              ready to take Esmeralda for a sail for the first time in two years!
                            • Clyde Wisner
                              I ve always wanted to build a Topaz variant , but lately I have been looking at the 1GM10 at Chesapeake Marine Design. 24 with a Bay look and mentions a
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 18, 2005
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                                I've always wanted to build a Topaz variant , but lately I have been
                                looking at the "1GM10" at Chesapeake Marine Design. 24' with a Bay
                                look and mentions a box keel. Clyde



                                Clyde Wisner wrote:

                                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Don Schultz
                                I bought the study plans to get a closer look at this design. It is very Bolgeresque . Bolger s Plywood Diesel Cruiser in BWAOM is the equivalent. Very
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 19, 2005
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                                  I bought the study plans to get a closer look at this design. It is
                                  very "Bolgeresque". Bolger's Plywood Diesel Cruiser in BWAOM is the
                                  equivalent. Very very roomy!! The CMD design may be simpler than the
                                  Bolger. The designer puts the modest tankage down in the box keel like
                                  some of Bolger's similar designs. It seems likely a builder would
                                  readily look to triple the specified tankage, to give the boat some real
                                  legs.

                                  In my very inexperienced opinion the CMD design is underpowered w' 9 hp.
                                  The hull design is capable of handling some rough water, but one would
                                  be short on hp in those conditions. Consider just the windage of the
                                  hull. I wouldn't build the boat with less than a Yanmar 18hp. One
                                  could also read Bolger's essay about his Delaware concept, specifically
                                  talking about Jochem's schooner handling stiff weather with a 9.9
                                  outboard. Built w' the 9hp engine, I think the owner would run the
                                  little diesel wide open most of the time. More hp means a less stressed
                                  powerplant most of the time, but sufficent power when needed to handle
                                  the weather.

                                  Don Schultz
                                  "If you don't know where you're going, you'll end up somewhere else."
                                  Yogi Berra

                                  Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:59:19 -0400
                                  From: Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...>
                                  Subject: Re: Canoe Yawls / Sea Otter 18 in Bolger3?

                                  I've always wanted to build a Topaz variant , but lately I have been
                                  looking at the "1GM10" at Chesapeake Marine Design. 24' with a Bay
                                  look and mentions a box keel. Clyde
                                • donschultz8275
                                  After further review, I came across Redwing 40. This boat has a Redwing sheer line, but the lower hull design has much in common w the IGM10 including the
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 19, 2005
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                                    After further review, I came across Redwing 40. This boat has a
                                    Redwing sheer line, but the lower hull design has much in common w'
                                    the IGM10 including the shallow box keel, and there are nice
                                    color "cartoons" of the hull.
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