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RE: [bolger] PL Premium

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  • Orr, Jamie
    I ve just been looking at these and deciding what to use next -- 3M s 5200, and I think Sikaflex 240, are polyurethanes. They are both recommended where you
    Message 1 of 5 , May 2, 2000
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      I've just been looking at these and deciding what to use next -- 3M's 5200,
      and I think Sikaflex' 240, are polyurethanes. They are both recommended
      where you never need to take the joint apart again. 3M's 101 is a
      polysulphide, and is not so permanent -- I don't know the Sikaflex
      equivalent.

      I used 5200 under my rub rails -- it was stiff and didn't spread easily, but
      that may have been because the temperature was only just within the range
      given on the tube. Did a nice job and cleaned up easily with mineral
      spirits. I used 101 under the rudder fittings where I may want to remove
      them one day.

      I recently saw a professional boatbuilder using Rule Elastomer as a sealant
      between lapstrake (clinker) planks. It smells and looks a bit like silicone
      seal, but apparently is not silicone as he reports that it stays stuck. It
      may be some kind of hybrid. It's a bit cheaper than 3M or Sikaflex.

      Jamie Orr

      PS I finally chose Boat Life's Life Caulk this time around as it is
      available in a small tube in brown -- this is another polysulphide.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Donald Hodges [mailto:dhodges@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 6:12 AM
      To: bolger@egroups.com
      Subject: Re: [bolger] PL Premium


      FWIW, I think 5200 and Sika-flex are polysulfides, whatever that means. I
      know fisthand that 5200 is tough stuff - I don't want to remove anything
      bedded in it!

      Don Hodges
      dhodges@...
      http://www.ecoastlife.com
      Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
      Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Mark Albanese <marka@...>
      To: <bolger@egroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 3:29 PM
      Subject: Re: [bolger] PL Premium


      >
      >
      > Yes, there are many polyurethane glues. Gorilla and also Excel are two
      > European versions that have been promoted for boat building.
      >
      > According to Richard Jagels in WB 128, Gorilla was rated for all
      > exterior purposes except laminated beams. In 129, he shows that -dry-
      > resorcinol, epoxy or regular carpenter's glue exceed the shear strength
      > of Maple, a polyurethane glue being only about half as strong.
      >
      > I've used a couple of bottles of Elmer's PROBOND Contractor's Grade
      > Polyurethane, about a dollar an ounce. An amber syrup, too thin for
      > caulking guns, I think. It activates with water.
      >
      > My 1/2" square kayak timbers and thin, Australian Maple planks seem
      > fastened strongly, using this glue along with ring nails and copper
      > tacks. I also made a double plywood rudder stock for another boat,
      > mostly fastenless, with it.
      >
      > No Mixing! Probond can be nice to use. Clamp within 15 minutes; room
      > temperature 40 to 90; takes humidity.
      >
      > I've said I've had trouble applying it thinly enough. The gap filling
      > foam keeps foaming even out of my best clamped fits. I'd expect the
      > inside of my hollow mast to be full of the stuff. It's pretty easy to
      > clean up where you can, but needs tending.
      >
      > I've also used 'Marine Goop', remembered as a polyurethane out of a
      > caulking tube, to bed some sacrificial bottom skids instead of SikaFlex
      > or 3M5200, themselves both polyurethanes. Only used about twenty screws;
      > so far no trouble. This was pretty sticky, a stiff, no colored bead. The
      > tubes were only $6-8, but it didn't go that far.
      >
      > In contrast to Probond, this didn't foam. Both cleaned up with acetone.
      > Neither took very long to cure.
      >
      > Intended purpose for hardware store polyurethanes is important. The
      > aftercure plasticity of the stuff in tubes can vary a lot, including
      > just about never hardening, if that's what's wanted. What makes a glue
      > joint strong is minimizing creep.
      >
      > In small boats, I've had good results with either major type. For high
      > strength, nometal joints, polyurethane is not the best glue. Maybe it's
      > only just better glue than people used the last 40,000 years.
      >
      > Mark
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > GET WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE FREE! GET THE OFFICIAL COMPANION
      > TO TELEVISION'S HOTTEST GAME SHOW PHENOMENON PLUS 5 MORE BOOKS FOR
      > $2. Click for details.
      > http://click.egroups.com/1/3014/6/_/3457/_/957212779/
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >


      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    • Mark Albanese
      This old thread: Used the PL in a tube today. Very nice fixing little 1/4 plywood bulkheads in the ends with nothing else but it. No frames or anything. These
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 29, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        This old thread:

        Used the PL in a tube today. Very nice fixing little 1/4"
        plywood bulkheads in the ends with nothing else but it. No
        frames or anything. These chambers don't have to do much but
        contain the foam. I'd read that Norm McLeod, at least for a
        while, stopped even beveling frames for it. Mine are beveled
        all around.

        It oozed out of the caulker quite nicely and formed an easy
        to work 3/8" fillet, which gap it's said to fill. Came off
        right with a bit of acetone. Good color to match the fir.

        Mark



        Mark Albanese wrote:
        >
        > Yes, there are many polyurethane glues. Gorilla and also Excel are two
        > European versions that have been promoted for boat building.
        >
        > According to Richard Jagels in WB 128, Gorilla was rated for all
        > exterior purposes except laminated beams. In 129, he shows that -dry-
        > resorcinol, epoxy or regular carpenter's glue exceed the shear strength
        > of Maple, a polyurethane glue being only about half as strong.
        >
        > I've used a couple of bottles of Elmer's PROBOND Contractor's Grade
        > Polyurethane, about a dollar an ounce. An amber syrup, too thin for
        > caulking guns, I think. It activates with water.
        >
        > My 1/2" square kayak timbers and thin, Australian Maple planks seem
        > fastened strongly, using this glue along with ring nails and copper
        > tacks. I also made a double plywood rudder stock for another boat,
        > mostly fastenless, with it.
        >
        > No Mixing! Probond can be nice to use. Clamp within 15 minutes; room
        > temperature 40 to 90; takes humidity.
        >
        > I've said I've had trouble applying it thinly enough. The gap filling
        > foam keeps foaming even out of my best clamped fits. I'd expect the
        > inside of my hollow mast to be full of the stuff. It's pretty easy to
        > clean up where you can, but needs tending.
        >
        > I've also used 'Marine Goop', remembered as a polyurethane out of a
        > caulking tube, to bed some sacrificial bottom skids instead of SikaFlex
        > or 3M5200, themselves both polyurethanes. Only used about twenty screws;
        > so far no trouble. This was pretty sticky, a stiff, no colored bead. The
        > tubes were only $6-8, but it didn't go that far.
        >
        > In contrast to Probond, this didn't foam. Both cleaned up with acetone.
        > Neither took very long to cure.
        >
        > Intended purpose for hardware store polyurethanes is important. The
        > aftercure plasticity of the stuff in tubes can vary a lot, including
        > just about never hardening, if that's what's wanted. What makes a glue
        > joint strong is minimizing creep.
        >
        > In small boats, I've had good results with either major type. For high
        > strength, nometal joints, polyurethane is not the best glue. Maybe it's
        > only just better glue than people used the last 40,000 years.
        >
        > Mark
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